Official OPPO BDP-95 Owner's Thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jfz View Post

I'm not surprised that the 95 didn't sound great out of the box. My guess is that with more break-in, maybe several hundred hours, it will sound much better...

Much better? I doubt it. And I'd maintain that if a solid state electronics player started to sound even a little better over time, the electronics "break-in" took place not in the player but in the brain of the beholder, as one psychoacoustically accommodates to the new unit (i. e., becomes accustomed to the sound of said unit).

I propose a simple test for such subjective audiophile phenomena: once the unit is fully "broken in", plug in a brand new one right next to it, level match, insert 2 identical CDs, and cue em up. The subject is then asked to blindly guess which is which, while someone else switches them A/B/A. If you get it right over 50% to statistical significance, I'll give you a cookie.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #212 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

thanks, precisely how I feel. And your right, the Denon [is] more refined and natural sounding. But I really want to just get the BDP-95 and hear, or prove it, for myself, I'm very curious to compare 2ch analog OUT.

I'm using a more conventional HT/AV system: NAD T175 processor; Parasound A51 amp (250W X 5); Monitor Audio GS-Series speakers (GS60 fronts, GSLCR center); Pioneer BDP-05FD player (SD-DVD, BD, CD sources); Denon DVD-3930CI player (SACD, DVD-A, CD sources); Denon DVD-3800BDCI (SD-DVD, BD, CD sources); Pioneer PDP-4680HD Kuro display.

I just purchased the Marantz AV7005 pre-pro. Waiting to get BDP-95 (maybe). Then physically re-configure my system. I was hoping to replace the Denon DVD-3930CI with the BDP-95 as a "music" player, but I'm not sure yet? Wanting better 2ch/5.1ch analog OUT for music mostly. I use HDMI (w/Audyssey) for movies, very happy.

The NAD yields pretty good (not bad) 2ch/5.1ch OUT. But I've been contemplating adding HT-bypass piece to the chain (ie. Parasound P7, etc.,..), or a DAC (BenchMark DAC1 HDR).

When I ordered the 83se, I fully expected it would retire the Denon after some initial A/B-ing.

I expected that the Oppo would match the the already excellent upscaling capability of the Denon (which it did).

I expected that it would be more responsive (it was).

I expected that it would at least be the Denon's equal for redbook playback, given the reviews (and the hype... Stereophile Class A?) concerning the 83se's analogue prowess. But, I soon realized (and was fairly shocked) that it wasn't. I listened constantly for weeks thinking that it was just me being used to the sound of the Denon. I had a buddy over whose ears I trust. He came to the same conclusion (without knowing which was playing).

The other disappointment was the noisy, clunky loader... not worthy of a $900 box. My cheap a$$ Sony BDP-S570 (from a local AV boutique called Target) has a better loader.
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post #213 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rebop View Post


Do you mean wired Ethernet? If so, no. I don't have a cat 5 cable long enough. Need about 50 feet or so.

~Bob

That is what I meant. It maybe worthwhile to take the unit to oppo and have them check out the build in modem.
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post #214 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 03:27 PM
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[quote=WestCoastD;19945642]thanks, precisely how I feel. And your right, the Denon [is] more refined and natural sounding. But I really want to just get the BDP-95 and hear, or prove it, for myself, I'm very curious to compare 2ch analog OUT.

WestCoastD, I have been trying to decide on the BDP-95, as you. Lately I have doing more critical listening with my 83SE, and Denon AVR-2808. Since I purchased my 83SE about a year and a half ago, I have been using Analog 2CH, analog passthrough on the AVR, and MCH EXT IN on the AVR. My Denon has BB DSD1608 DAC's, the Denon DVD-3930 uses BB PCM1796 DAC's, the Denon DVD-5910 uses BB PCM1792 DAC's the better of the three that I noted. What I am finding with SACD/DVD-A, is that it sounds "more refined and natural sounding" letting the Denon DAC's do the SACD decoding via HDMI. I could not believe the difference with the Denon. I have forced my wife to listen as well, and she says no doubt, the Denon sounds noticably better. The DAC's my Denon AVR uses are lower quality by quite some than the DVD-3930 or DVD-5910, so I can't imagine how much better your setup can sound. I am looking at purchasing a 5910 or 3930, and selling my 83SE, purchase an OPPO 93 just for BluRay. I have a AudioLab 8200CD on the way, that uses the same ESS DAC's as the 95. I will give that a go before I purchase a Denon. Another thought would be to purchase a Denon AVR with the 1796 or 1792 DAC's, possibly just go all HDMI. I do agree with some that the OPPO's may be a little too analytical versus natural sounding.

I have be A/B'ing with Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms" SACD, 20th Aniversary Edition. Particuarly like Track 7, "The Man's Too Strong", but I'll admit is is an outstanding SACD.
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post #215 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 04:13 PM
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I propose a simple test for such subjective audiophile phenomena: once the unit is fully "broken in", plug in a brand new one right next to it, level match, insert 2 identical CDs, and cue em up. The subject is then asked to blindly guess which is which, while someone else switches them A/B/A. If you get it right over 50% to statistical significance, I'll give you a cookie.[/quote]

I propose to keep this thread on subject.

Do not steal, The powers that be do not like the competition.
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post #216 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcrown1 View Post

That is what I meant. It maybe worthwhile to take the unit to oppo and have them check out the build in modem.

Yep. They have offered this. But not easy to get it out of my rack. Not impossible, but not easy.

So I bought a new wireless router this afternoon. Will set up as a separate access point with new SSID and Password. If it works, all good. If not, has to be the Oppo.

~Bob
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post #217 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 05:44 PM
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Got my 95 yesterday. Spent today setting everything up so I could do a-b comparison of the 93 and 95. The XLR from the 95 to my simaudio cp-8 is what I have been waiting for. Much improved over the 93 and much better then the HDMI from the 95. I think I'm going back to multich anolog. It just sounds better to me.
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post #218 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visualguy View Post

I compared the quality of the audio output from the balanced (XLR) stereo outputs on the BDP-95 to that of the Benchmark DAC1 HDR.

First, I have to say that the BDP-95 balanced output audio quality is very good, and I would definitely consider it to be in audiophile league. However, the DAC1 HDR sounds better. The sound of the DAC1 is somewhat clearer and more forward. I tried to compensate for volume levels in the comparison, but that's never really easy unless you have an accurate SPL meter (mine isn't great). The DAC1 has significantly more gain than the BDP-95 which makes the comparison a little tricky, but I'm pretty confident about my conclusion.

I also have a Marantz SA-7S1 which I didn't compare directly to the BDP-95, but it sounds somewhat better than the DAC1 in direct comparisons with the DAC1, so it's better than the BDP-95 as well.

Still, I'm very happy with the BDP-95, and think it provides excellent value for the price. It doesn't provide the ultimate in analog sound quality, but it's audiophile-level, and very good for the price.

visualguy,

Thanks for the very balanced comments (as well as comments by others). The Benchmark DAC1 HDR and Marantz SA-7S1 are heavy hitters and those would be very big shoes to fill. But it sounds like at $1k the BDP-95 may be a bargain of sorts.

I look forward to hearing additional comments from you and others.


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post #219 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

I don't think Oppo should try to defend every negative opinions of their new player.

+1. It's interesting how some are jumping on the slightly negative comments considering some of the players that it is being compared to. Prospective buyers need to audition the Oppo in their respective setups and then render an opinion as opposed to hearing the Oppo through someone else's ears. In the end it comes down to preference.

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post #220 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 06:58 PM
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I agree. It matches well with my equipment. Still sounds great.
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post #221 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 07:06 PM
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I'm still learning all these audiophile terms. Can someone point me to a good definition of "analytical" as applied to audio?
--Bob

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post #222 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

But it sounds like at $1k the BDP-95 may be a bargain of sorts.

I look forward to hearing additional comments from you and others.

Like previous Oppos this model is likely to offer great performance for the price.

I'm anxious to find out how it performs against other players in that 1K price range (mainly Marantz, Denon, maybe Cambridge)
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post #223 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I'm still learning all these audiophile terms. Can someone point me to a good definition of "analytical" as applied to audio?
--Bob

I was thinking the same thing.

"There's no such thing as an easy job, not if you do it right."

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post #224 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I'm still learning all these audiophile terms. Can someone point me to a good definition of "analytical" as applied to audio?
--Bob

Try this from Stereophile

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/50/index.html
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post #225 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 07:32 PM
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listen analytically---a trained listener. But the goal of literal realism, or "accuracy," remains the standard against which a subjective reviewer evaluates any audio product design.

The casual audiophile hears reproduced sound as a whole, and judges its quality according to whether it sounds "good." Many reviewers never reach that stage of perception because---convinced by their measurements that all competing products sound "
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post #226 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wuwhere View Post

Try this from Stereophile

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/50/index.html

Cool! I love reference sources like this.

But, um, people seem to be using "analytical" here as if it is a bad thing. I don't see that in:

"Analytical: Very detailed, almost to the point of excess."

I'm teasing folks. Trying to express in words why you prefer one thing over another for something as subjective as audio is darned hard. Some would even say English is deficient in this regard.

I've got no doubt whatsoever that people have nuanced preferences in audio. i'm the same way about video. But dang! It's funny when folks try to put it into words!
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post #227 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Cool! I love reference sources like this.

But, um, people seem to be using "analytical" here as if it is a bad thing. I don't see that in:

"Analytical: Very detailed, almost to the point of excess."

I'm teasing folks. Trying to express in words why you prefer one thing over another for something as subjective as audio is darned hard. Some would even say English is deficient in this regard.

I've got no doubt whatsoever that people have nuanced preferences in audio. i'm the same way about video. But dang! It's funny when folks try to put it into words!
--Bob

Well, It is so........ subjective that you will like it or not.
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post #228 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

Well, It is so........ subjective that you will like it or not.

Heck, isn't there an app for that?
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post #229 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 07:46 PM
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Analytical is not necessarily a bad thing. I prefer a very detailed presentation as long as it sounds smooth, not grainy or harsh.
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post #230 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 07:47 PM
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"Writing about music is like dancing about architecture."

Always liked this one,

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post #231 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuwhere View Post

Analytical is not necessarily a bad thing. I prefer a very detailed presentation as long as it sounds smooth, not grainy or harsh.

GET some B & W speakers 800
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post #232 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 07:52 PM
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Gosh, brings to mind a line from Flanders & Swann ("At the Drop of a Hat").

"Architecture, the critics say, is frozen music.

And of course Swann's music has frequently been described as defrosted architecture."
Michael Flanders

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post #233 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Gosh, brings to mind a line from Flanders & Swann ("At the Drop of a Hat").

"Architecture, the critics say, is frozen music.

And of course Swann's music has frequently been described as defrosted architecture."
Michael Flanders

--Bob

I think that's why it's hard to put an attribution on that quote - to many near misses - but it get's the message across. Here's my brief take on the definition of analytical.

A friend had just bought a pair of Paradigm 60/80s (don't remember exactly), and I had just finished building some DIY speakers. So of course we couldn't wait to compare them.

Both sounded and measured fine in normal listening. Critically listening we clearly heard an edit on a CD listening to my speakers. Noted the CD counter, changed to the Paradigms, and played it again - no edit could be heard. None. Not at any volume!

I'd say my speakers were analytical and his were forgiving. Neither is better than the other, just depends on what you want, or don't want, to hear.

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post #234 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djwobbrock View Post

Lately I have doing more critical listening with my 83SE, and Denon AVR-2808. Since I purchased my 83SE about a year and a half ago, I have been using Analog 2CH, analog passthrough on the AVR, and MCH EXT IN on the AVR. My Denon has BB DSD1608 DAC's, the Denon DVD-3930 uses BB PCM1796 DAC's, the Denon DVD-5910 uses BB PCM1792 DAC's the better of the three that I noted. What I am finding with SACD/DVD-A, is that it sounds "more refined and natural sounding" letting the Denon DAC's do the SACD decoding via HDMI

The AVR2808CI is a very nice receiver. Are you using Audyssey as well playing back SACD's? Did'nt realize the AVR-2808CI could do SACD over HDMI?

Yeah, the three Burr Brown DAC's you mention are very good, with the PCM1796 being the best of the three. Denon does a very good design implementation in these players (Burr Brown op-amps for output coupling, etc.,...), combined with AL24 processing (up-sampling), and good rigid chassis design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djwobbrock View Post

The DAC's my Denon AVR uses are lower quality by quite some than the DVD-3930 or DVD-5910, so I can't imagine how much better your setup can sound. I am looking at purchasing a 5910 or 3930, and selling my 83SE, purchase an OPPO 93 just for BluRay. I have a AudioLab 8200CD on the way, that uses the same ESS DAC's as the 95. I will give that a go before I purchase a Denon. Another thought would be to purchase a Denon AVR with the 1796 or 1792 DAC's, possibly just go all HDMI

I understand the DVD-5910CI sounds the best. Only thing, these
(older) Denon players may incur some mechanical issues from many hours of use. Some exhibit laser assy failures, but are easily replaced (for money)
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post #235 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tlc828 View Post

Got my 95 yesterday. Spent today setting everything up so I could do a-b comparison of the 93 and 95. The XLR from the 95 to my simaudio cp-8 is what I have been waiting for. Much improved over the 93 and much better then the HDMI from the 95. I think I'm going back to multich anolog. It just sounds better to me.

What processor do you use? With the SSP-800 from Classé I feed it all digital, except I will try the Balanced Analogue for two channels
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post #236 of 11266 Old 02-03-2011, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by wuwhere View Post

Try this from Stereophile

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/50/index.html

Thanks for the reference wuwhere...

Analytical is right on ....the ability to reveal or show everything on disk, the good, the bad and the ugly. In this case, "Analytical" this is a good thing. It is synonymous of "Accuracy". Should we rage against the postman for the delivering the mail?

As for redbook playback sounding "thin", couldn't this be the recording itself being that way? Isn't this, again, where being analytical or accurate comes into play?

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #237 of 11266 Old 02-04-2011, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuwhere View Post

Analytical is not necessarily a bad thing. I prefer a very detailed presentation as long as it sounds smooth, not grainy or harsh.

Exactly what I am looking for on a player !
Very detailed sound, but no harshness ! One wouldn't like a warm but "muddy" sound neither.
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post #238 of 11266 Old 02-04-2011, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Much better? I doubt it. And I'd maintain that if a solid state electronics player started to sound even a little better over time, the electronics "break-in" took place not in the player but in the brain of the beholder, as one psychoacoustically accommodates to the new unit (i. e., becomes accustomed to the sound of said unit).

I propose a simple test for such subjective audiophile phenomena: once the unit is fully "broken in", plug in a brand new one right next to it, level match, insert 2 identical CDs, and cue em up. The subject is then asked to blindly guess which is which, while someone else switches them A/B/A. If you get it right over 50% to statistical significance, I'll give you a cookie.


I was writing for the benefit of Rebop or anyone else who wanted to try being patient to see if the 95 sounded better over time; "much better" is subjective; and I said "my guess". "I'll give you a cookie" sounds pretty condescending to me, but I'll ignore it and assume it's a joke.

I've been an audiophile for over 40 years, and I've done many "experiments" such as you propose; i.e., with broken-in (used for a while) equipment and brand-new, out-of-the-box equipment. Sometimes a real factor in what I hear is a result of the transparency and accuracy of the rest of the system. In any case, I hear what I hear, and others hear what they hear. My intention is not to convince anyone else of anything.
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post #239 of 11266 Old 02-04-2011, 07:20 AM
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[quote=djwobbrock;19946289]
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

thanks, precisely how I feel. And your right, the Denon [is] more refined and natural sounding. But I really want to just get the BDP-95 and hear, or prove it, for myself, I'm very curious to compare 2ch analog OUT.

WestCoastD, I have been trying to decide on the BDP-95, as you. Lately I have doing more critical listening with my 83SE, and Denon AVR-2808. Since I purchased my 83SE about a year and a half ago, I have been using Analog 2CH, analog passthrough on the AVR, and MCH EXT IN on the AVR. My Denon has BB DSD1608 DAC's, the Denon DVD-3930 uses BB PCM1796 DAC's, the Denon DVD-5910 uses BB PCM1792 DAC's the better of the three that I noted. What I am finding with SACD/DVD-A, is that it sounds "more refined and natural sounding" letting the Denon DAC's do the SACD decoding via HDMI. I could not believe the difference with the Denon. I have forced my wife to listen as well, and she says no doubt, the Denon sounds noticably better. The DAC's my Denon AVR uses are lower quality by quite some than the DVD-3930 or DVD-5910, so I can't imagine how much better your setup can sound. I am looking at purchasing a 5910 or 3930, and selling my 83SE, purchase an OPPO 93 just for BluRay. I have a AudioLab 8200CD on the way, that uses the same ESS DAC's as the 95. I will give that a go before I purchase a Denon. Another thought would be to purchase a Denon AVR with the 1796 or 1792 DAC's, possibly just go all HDMI. I do agree with some that the OPPO's may be a little too analytical versus natural sounding.

I have be A/B'ing with Dire Straits "Brothers in Arms" SACD, 20th Aniversary Edition. Particuarly like Track 7, "The Man's Too Strong", but I'll admit is is an outstanding SACD.

Hi, i really would like to heard about comparaison between the superb Audiolab 8200cd and the BDP-95. They are in the same price range and both catch my attention. I hope you will report soon as you will have the Audiolab. If someone else compared both players, go ahead!
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post #240 of 11266 Old 02-04-2011, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rebop View Post

Went over to Oppo again this afternoon. Very helpful and knowledgeable folks.
...
We also chatted about impressions and I noted that the only thing so far less than satisfactory is CD playback. They asked why. I said "thin". They said, you mean "analytical". Seems like they have heard this before.
...
~Bob

Since Oppo referenced the term "analytical", perhaps someone here with Oppo connections could contact them and find if they have a definition so we'd have a common frame of reference.
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