Official Panasonic DMP-BDT110/210/310 Owners Thread - Page 118 - AVS Forum
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post #3511 of 8497 Old 08-31-2011, 05:37 AM
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OMG, was going to pick this up at BB this morning but that is a deal killer for me.
I have had the Roku XS for a week now but the mkv and rgb issue and the constant lockups is bothersome.

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the x10 series outputs DD+ 5.1 with netflix when it is available. Amazon is still limited to stereo. VUDU does DD+.
S~

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post #3512 of 8497 Old 08-31-2011, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Sepen View Post

OMG, was going to pick this up at BB this morning but that is a deal killer for me.
I have had the Roku XS for a week now but the mkv and rgb issue and the constant lockups is bothersome.

I have the Roku XS and love it. The Netflix colorspace problem doesn't affect me--my television seems to deal with it. I never wanted to watch MKV's on it. Since I've had it, I'd estimate that I've watched 30-40 hours of Netflix and Amazon with it and never seen it lock up. What's it locking up on when you use it?

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post #3513 of 8497 Old 08-31-2011, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Sepen View Post

OMG, was going to pick this up at BB this morning but that is a deal killer for me.
I have had the Roku XS for a week now but the mkv and rgb issue and the constant lockups is bothersome.

I have the Roku XS and love it. The Netflix colorspace problem doesn't affect me--my television seems to deal with it (I'd expect them to fix it in the next firmware release). I never wanted to watch MKV's on it (why do so many people expect every STB to do everything?). Since I've had it, I'd estimate that I've watched 30-40 hours of Netflix and Amazon with it and never seen it lock up. What's it locking up on when you use it?

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post #3514 of 8497 Old 08-31-2011, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ahahlberg View Post
Well I'm pretty annoyed at Panasonic about my BDT110. I have to keep reminding myself that if I sell the 3D Avatar disk for anything like what I've seen it going for, the player is virtually free or not more than $30. And I don't expect a lot for a virtually free player. Were it not for the false claims by Panasonic I'd count myself fortunate for all the things it does well. But what galls me is that it claims to play AVCHD videos from disk, sd card, or network drive including the claim that it will play SD cards right off of a camcorder. I have a Canon Vixia HF100 I've had for 3 years whose AVCHD SD video cards played right out of the camera via a USB reader into my PS3 and in any computer I tried - but they won't play on the BDT110. I was able to author an AVCHD DVD+DL disk with the camera clips on them and the Panasonic would play them that way - but not when put on a blu-ray disk. So it seems rather obvious that the Panasonic has the right codecs built in but is intensely paranoid about the directory structure or file-naming convention used on any medium except an AVCHD format on a DVD. So far, I'm 0 for 6 in trying video formats read from an SD card or Network drive. My BDT110 has not yet successfully rendered any video I have given it as a file - including YouTube videos I can see via the YouTube application on the BDT110 but not when saved as a file on an SD card or network drive. And Panasonic tech support always responds to my complaints with "..it will accept AVCHD, MKV, H264 ...." but refuses to explain in detail what interpretation of these standards they have implemented so that I can understand why my AVCHD camcorder videos will not play on their device unless I put them on an AVCHD DVD+DL. Now if anyone has specific details on exactly what things the BDT110 is actually looking for in terms of file naming conventions and codecs it accepts then I'd really like to hear that. I'd especially like to hear from anyone who has one of Canon's Vixia AVCHD camcorders who has been able to play their own shots on the BDT110 using either a blu-ray disk or an SD card or a network drive.
For AVCHD video from camcorder or camera, I have no problem play it via SD card right out of my Sony camera. I'd expect the same from a Canon camcorder. What you need to understand is that it requires:
1. Put the SD card to the SD card slot of the player, not through USB adapter.
2. Keep the entire folder structure intact, not just leave the video files on the SD card.

AVCHD is a standard including requirements for video codecs (MPEG2 or h.264), bitrate (24mbps max for SD and 18mbps max for DVD disc), resolutions (480i, 480p, 720p, 1440i and 1080i) and rigid layout of folder structures (they are slightly different structures between SD card and DVD disc) and files. Panasonic has always strict on these spec requirements.

AVCHD video file itself (*.mts or *.m2ts files) can be streamed over the network via DLNA or other means provided the video file is encoded according to the AVCHD requirements above (sans the folder structure requirement). It can be the file itself or in a mkv container.

Random h.264 video may or maynot be playable via DNLA depends on if the video confirms to AVCHD requirements. I personally have yet to have any luck to encode h.264 files myself that can be accepted by BDT110 for streaming. But a few videos I encoded in the past using AVCHD tools do work.
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post #3515 of 8497 Old 08-31-2011, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
I think that what this guy is doing is illegal. I don't know how he got his hands on the firmware in order to make modifications to it, but it's probably copyrighted Panasonic IP. Unless their firmware update file structure allows some portion of the firmware to be replaced without replacing others, it has to contain the Viera Cast suite.

I think that he's selling a modified version of someone else's IP. He's pretending that he's not selling it by calling payment for it a "donation" but to my mind a required donation is indistinguishable from a retail price.
I have to agree. This guy is making profit off a stollen IP (Panasonic or any other Blu Ray player firmwares are never open sourced though they may use some portions of the open source code but not the entire firmware). Talking about this kind of stuff is actually against forum rules.
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post #3516 of 8497 Old 08-31-2011, 11:08 AM
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I have decided to go another direction here, since both the 110/210 models do not support streaming via DLNA .avi and/or .mp4 files per Panasonic Tech. Support.

Maybe the LG BD670 will handle this task.
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post #3517 of 8497 Old 08-31-2011, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Pinstripe View Post
Screensaver?

I don't get it, the user manual says it's there to prevent unintended burn-in, BUT goes on to say that it does not work if you press pause - what's the point? When else would I need a screensaver? For those of you with plasma's, how are you guys preventing burn-in if you need to leave the movie for a bit.
On my TV, I go into Eco settings and turn off the video.
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post #3518 of 8497 Old 08-31-2011, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by simon__birch View Post
It seems like neither Panasonic lawyers nor the guys with the firmware share your thoughts, so where is the relation to forum rules ?

Are you just another firmware hater ?
What, do you think every company is extremely pro-active about protecting their IP? I worked for Xerox once on firmware for a line of networked multi-function office products mounted on a hardware platform called the "SESS" (Strategic Embedded SubSystem). This was about 15 years ago, and for the time it was a pretty innovative piece of hardware. Somebody handed me a glossy brochure one day with a picture of a board on it and I said, "Hey! When did we start selling the SESS?" to which he replied, "We don't--this brochure is from a company started a couple of years ago by two ex-members of this team." As far as I know, that company was not sued--I'm sure they weren't for the following couple of years that I was with Xerox. There were numerous poachings of Xerox IP--at the time they were reknown for their laissez faire attitude about it. Some companies are good at protecting their IP, others not so much.

You have no idea what Panasonic's lawyers think of this guy's "selling" their firmware (and to require a minimum donation for receipt of the thing is to sell it, no matter how you want to say it). It's possible that they're preparing a suit against him. I can't imagine that it's terribly high priority--I doubt that he's realized any fortune from his "donations". Maybe it's too little for them to care much at all and it's possible that it hasn't even come to their notice yet, but unless they gave him explicit license to sell their copyrighted IP, he's breaking the copyright statute.

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post #3519 of 8497 Old 08-31-2011, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post
I never wanted to watch MKV's on it (why do so many people expect every STB to do everything?). What's it locking up on when you use it?
It says that it plays mkv's on the box and Roku's site. I went to use it and it didn't work. Went to the Roku forum and discovered that it has been disabled for now. MKV file playback is very important to me.

It has locked up in channel mode and also when I have paused it. It also has locked up when I went to use it, it was frozen. All of these have required me to pull the plug and restart it. It is sitting on my tv stand so heat is not an issue.

I do like it though. The Amazon menu sucks big time though. I wonder if all players Amazon video menu is that awful.

I will give it two more weeks and if I don't see an updated firmware I will have to return it.
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post #3520 of 8497 Old 08-31-2011, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Sepen View Post
It says that it plays mkv's on the box and Roku's site. I went to use it and it didn't work. Went to the Roku forum and discovered that it has been disabled for now. MKV file playback is very important to me.
Okay. I just wish that all of these boxes would stop trying to do everything. IMHO, Roku didn't have any need to make the XS play files from USB drives (it's the only model with a USB port).
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I do like it though. The Amazon menu sucks big time though. I wonder if all players Amazon video menu is that awful.
I think that the menus for the Amazon player on the BDTx10s are great. You can page through 10 thumbnails at a time and you can see all of the titles for a season's worth of television series episodes on the season's description page (up to 26--if there are more, the 26th is a link to another page worth). If it weren't for the lack of 5.1 sound, I'd greatly prefer it to Roku's Amazon player.

You should also be aware that Roku 2 is one of only 2 players currently capable of playing the 1080p encodings on Netflix (XD and XS models--the other 1080p capable platform is the PS3).

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post #3521 of 8497 Old 08-31-2011, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

For AVCHD video from camcorder or camera, I have no problem play it via SD card right out of my Sony camera. I'd expect the same from a Canon camcorder. What you need to understand is that it requires:
1. Put the SD card to the SD card slot of the player, not through USB adapter.
2. Keep the entire folder structure intact, not just leave the video files on the SD card.

AVCHD is a standard including requirements for video codecs (MPEG2 or h.264), bitrate (24mbps max for SD and 18mbps max for DVD disc), resolutions (480i, 480p, 720p, 1440i and 1080i) and rigid layout of folder structures (they are slightly different structures between SD card and DVD disc) and files. Panasonic has always strict on these spec requirements.

AVCHD video file itself (*.mts or *.m2ts files) can be streamed over the network via DLNA or other means provided the video file is encoded according to the AVCHD requirements above (sans the folder structure requirement). It can be the file itself or in a mkv container.

Random h.264 video may or maynot be playable via DNLA depends on if the video confirms to AVCHD requirements. I personally have yet to have any luck to encode h.264 files myself that can be accepted by BDT110 for streaming. But a few videos I encoded in the past using AVCHD tools do work.

Thanks for the tip Foxbat121 - I hadn't tried using the SD slot because I thought it needed some scratch space and might do some buffering there - but if I put the SD card right out of the camcorder it will play the video clips directly from the SD slot - but it only shows one master clip and date, the date of the earliest clip. In my case the actual clips were shot over a 3 day period and nowhere was I able to see any dates associated to the individual clips - a minor flaw compared to not being able to watch them at all so we're definitely making progress.
I had put in yet another ticket with Panasonic yesterday and they replied today asking me to call them. The tech I dealt with was very cordial and after I explained the several problems I was having with camcorder video clips not being readable except on a DVD+DL AVCHD disk he asked me to conduct some experiments and get back to them. I'm part way through the experiments now and can report some findings. I focused today on finding out what video formats were acceptable on a Network Drive. What I discovered is that only files with a .mkv extension will be listed among a population of mp4, m4v, avi, mts, and m2ts. And only files actually placed in an mkv container will play. Simply changing the extension was not enough - it had to be a real mkv container. I used the multiplatform "Handbrake" software to convert my camcorder clips and it appears to take 4 to 5 times as long as the clip running time to transcode the clips on my WinXP Pro 3GHZ Dual Core machine. The resulting files were slightly smaller than the originals but appear to have the same overall resolution and clarity as the originals. But now I know what it takes to create videos that are playable directly from a network drive.
My next problem is to determine why a DVD+DL AVCHD disk authored by Nero 9 plays but a Blu-ray version of the same project does not. That could be a Nero problem although the resulting blu-ray disk plays on both my computer and my PS3 without issues. And I will be feeding this information back to Panasonic per their request. I think they do have some bugs in their firmware still - but the player is still a bargain for all it does right!
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post #3522 of 8497 Old 09-01-2011, 05:39 AM
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AVCHD is designed for SD cards and DVDs, not Blu-Ray discs. That's why it won't play. It makes zero sense to make AVCHD disc on BD discs. You should make BD movie disc instead.

The video file (*.mts or *.m2ts) from you camcord should be playable directly via streaming without the need of transcoding which lower the picture quality.
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post #3523 of 8497 Old 09-01-2011, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

AVCHD is designed for SD cards and DVDs, not Blu-Ray discs. That's why it won't play. It makes zero sense to make AVCHD disc on BD discs. You should make BD movie disc instead.

The video file (*.mts or *.m2ts) from you camcord should be playable directly via streaming without the need of transcoding which lower the picture quality.

My problem with playing my camcorder clips on a blu-ray disk, which might really be an authoring software problem, comes from attempting to create a Blu-ray Movie disk, not a data disk, and the clips are converted from their input AVCHD format into whatever is necessary (m2ts) in the STREAM subfolder of the BDMV folder. I've been making blu-ray movies disk for years from my camcorder - and the disks have played successfully on my PS3, my computers, and my LG BD370 so whatever the issue is, it is unique to Panasonic's implementation of the BD standards - but I can't discount that it could be a loose implementation by Nero 9 rather than a specific fault of Panasonic - that's my next series of tests!
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post #3524 of 8497 Old 09-01-2011, 10:50 AM
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Hey guys, I'm a newbie with this stuff and just got a TM900 camcorder. I now want to be able to play AVCHD 1080i and 1080/60p files from an external NTFS-formatted hard drive to my HDTV. Will the BDT110 do that? Will it do it well? Thanks a lot!
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post #3525 of 8497 Old 09-01-2011, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahahlberg View Post

My problem with playing my camcorder clips on a blu-ray disk, which might really be an authoring software problem, comes from attempting to create a Blu-ray Movie disk, not a data disk, and the clips are converted from their input AVCHD format into whatever is necessary (m2ts) in the STREAM subfolder of the BDMV folder. I've been making blu-ray movies disk for years from my camcorder - and the disks have played successfully on my PS3, my computers, and my LG BD370 so whatever the issue is, it is unique to Panasonic's implementation of the BD standards - but I can't discount that it could be a loose implementation by Nero 9 rather than a specific fault of Panasonic - that's my next series of tests!

If that's a Panasonic problem, you will find a lot of complaints about not being able to play regular BD movies. PS3s and PCs can play anything, even out of spec discs.
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post #3526 of 8497 Old 09-01-2011, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by vivwatt View Post

Hey guys, I'm a newbie with this stuff and just got a TM900 camcorder. I now want to be able to play AVCHD 1080i and 1080/60p files from an external NTFS-formatted hard drive to my HDTV. Will the BDT110 do that? Will it do it well? Thanks a lot!
Vivian W.
Springfield, VA

The player, IIRC, doesn't support NTFS. You will have to host the content on a media server to stream over the network.
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post #3527 of 8497 Old 09-01-2011, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I worked for Xerox once on firmware for a line of networked multi-function office products mounted on a hardware platform called the "SESS" (Strategic Embedded SubSystem). This was about 15 years ago, and for the time it was a pretty innovative piece of hardware. Somebody handed me a glossy brochure one day with a picture of a board on it and I said, "Hey! When did we start selling the SESS?" to which he replied, "We don't--this brochure is from a company started a couple of years ago by two ex-members of this team." As far as I know, that company was not sued--I'm sure they weren't for the following couple of years that I was with Xerox. There were numerous poachings of Xerox IP--at the time they were reknown for their laissez faire attitude about it. Some companies are good at protecting their IP, others not so much.

Hey Michael, I am just curious, I think maybe I know one of those ex-members you mention... Splash? It's a long shot, I know.

I used to work a lot with Xerox on scanners. These guys (Xerox, I mean) invented pretty much every worthy technology the last 30+ years and never got the credit. Used to be that competitors made all the money on Xerox inventions and Apple got all the credit. Of course nowadays Apple gets both the money AND the credit, no matter who invents something

Easy, easy, I'm just kidding. Or at least exaggerating...
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post #3528 of 8497 Old 09-01-2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Brandenborg View Post

Hey Michael, I am just curious, I think maybe I know one of those ex-members you mention... Splash? It's a long shot, I know

I have no idea--I just barely remember the incident. Like I said, it was at least 15 years back (my time at Xerox ended in 1996--I was single and couldn't deal with living in Rochester anymore, though it's a nice enough place to raise a family, if you don't mind the snow ); I left there for a job in Tampa.

Back then, it seemed as though PARC was established to develop ideas for other companies to sell .

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post #3529 of 8497 Old 09-01-2011, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

I have no idea--I just barely reminder the incident. Like I said, it was at least 15 years back (my time at Xerox ended in 1996--I was single and couldn't deal with living in Rochester anymore, though it's a nice enough place to raise a family, if you don't mind the snow ); I left there for a job in Tampa.

Cool, I knew it was a long shot. I'm in Tampa too (Pinellas side). I'll buy you a beer sometime

Sorry guys...

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post #3530 of 8497 Old 09-01-2011, 06:15 PM
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Cool, I knew it was a long shot. I'm in Tampa too (Pinellas side). I'll buy you a beer sometime .

I remember the Tampa area fondly (lived in a small condo on the 9th floor of this building at the northern end of Sand Key on the Gulf side, the only structure in which I've lived that I could pick out from a plane on take off and landing ), but my job there was a contract that didn't convert to permanent. I've moved a few times since, to NJ, Baltimore, Chicago, San Jose and finally San Diego (I think SD is the location by my username). I've been here for 10 years and I'm not going anywhere. I used to enjoy moving around when I was young (lived in 13 cities in 11 states) but as the old saying goes, "No matter where you go, there you are" .

Yeah--sorry for the OT rathole.

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post #3531 of 8497 Old 09-01-2011, 06:43 PM
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Just purchased the 210 today. I have it hooked up to a Pioneer SC-05 receiver. Not interested in 3D functionality. This thread is extremely long and perhaps this has already been covered. I was looking for the Ideal Audio Settings to use on this player given the fact I am using it strictly for 2D playback. Appreciate anyone's input. Thanks.
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post #3532 of 8497 Old 09-01-2011, 07:52 PM
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The Windows XP send-to fails to create a CD that is usable by my 110.
The display says "unsupported".
The original firmware is v1.61.

The reason for trying a firmware upgrade is "Starship Troopers" will not play at all.
It says "HDMI" in the display, and the 110 is connected to a Samsung C650 with an HDMI cable.
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post #3533 of 8497 Old 09-01-2011, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

If that's a Panasonic problem, you will find a lot of complaints about not being able to play regular BD movies. PS3s and PCs can play anything, even out of spec discs.

Well, not quite anything. PS3s cannot play .MKVs at all unless they are transcoded. With the 110 I've been able to play quite a few .MKVs (even those with embeded .ASS/SRT subs) straight off burned DVDs. Just pick a file and play.

All Panasonic needs to do is add 24FPS format support from file playback and it will be perfect (not that I think they will, but I have suggested it).

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post #3534 of 8497 Old 09-02-2011, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by tiger123 View Post

Just purchased the 210 today. I have it hooked up to a Pioneer SC-05 receiver. Not interested in 3D functionality. This thread is extremely long and perhaps this has already been covered. I was looking for the Ideal Audio Settings to use on this player given the fact I am using it strictly for 2D playback. Appreciate anyone's input. Thanks.

Congratulations! How did you hook up the 210 to the Pioneer -- HDMI or optical? Also, which audio formats can the Pioneer decode? The answers will significantly impact your options. The Audio Information section in the lower-right of page 39 in the manual is extremely valuable.

I have a 110 connected to a Yamaha YHT-S400 via HDMI. Since the Yamaha cannot decode HD audio formats, I set the 110's digital output to PCM. This let's me get up to 7.1 channels in decoded audio, which the Yamaha will support. As far as the other audio options, I don't use DRC or Downmix, and I have the Secondary Audio turned off (except in the few cases when I want to listen to it). Note that if you have Secondary Audio turned on, the best you can get out of the 110/210 is Dolby Digital, DTS, or PCM 5.1 -- you won't be able to get HD audio.

Your 210 has two audio features that my 110 does not: 7.1ch Audio Reformatting and High Clarity Sound. Other 210 owners may want to weigh in on these, but based on the description, I'm pretty sure that I would have left them off if it were my unit. But as always, your ears are going to tell you what's best with your equipment, room, and listening preferences!
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post #3535 of 8497 Old 09-02-2011, 07:37 AM
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Pioneer has a full set of decoders (at least on the SC-07). It's always more fun to bitstream so the receiver tells you the codec.

High clarity audio basically turns off the analog audio section which is said to reduce noise when using HDMI output, though I've never been able to tell the difference.

I always use the dialog enhancer, which boosts the center channel a couple of notches.
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post #3536 of 8497 Old 09-02-2011, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgavin View Post

The Windows XP send-to fails to create a CD that is usable by my 110.
The display says "unsupported".
The original firmware is v1.61.

The reason for trying a firmware upgrade is "Starship Troopers" will not play at all.
It says "HDMI" in the display, and the 110 is connected to a Samsung C650 with an HDMI cable.

1. If you're using XP, did you extract the file first before sending it to be burned and are you using a CD-R? CD-RW are not officially supported but can be used if you close the disc. If you're using Vista or W7, you need CDBurnerXP.

2. Starship Troopers requires an SD card to play. This was an authoring error, not a Panasonic error, and has been this way with pretty much every BD player.

S~

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post #3537 of 8497 Old 09-02-2011, 07:06 PM
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Hello Elk Grove from Orangevale..

I'm in the computer business.. so did indeed unzip the .FRM.
Tried a Data CD-R (verbatim) from Nero, disk-at-once, no go.
Did the XP/SP3 send-to record function. Pioneer DVR-112 IIRC. Same error.

Neither worked, "unsupported".
It was faster to lay a 50' CAT5 from my office router out to the unit, and D/L the firmware.
It installed properly, made no difference.

Research confirms SSTroopers requires an SD card, so I ordered a 4gb Kingston SDHC Class 4 from Newegg.
My sustained data rate is about 5.1 Mbps, so I don't need a higher class card.
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post #3538 of 8497 Old 09-03-2011, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjktcvs View Post

Pioneer has a full set of decoders (at least on the SC-07). It's always more fun to bitstream so the receiver tells you the codec.

High clarity audio basically turns off the analog audio section which is said to reduce noise when using HDMI output, though I've never been able to tell the difference.

I always use the dialog enhancer, which boosts the center channel a couple of notches.

Thanks to you and MTSIndy for you valuable feedback. Sorry for not including how I have it connected originally. I do have it hooked up via HDMI to my SC-05 which has full set of decoders. After reading your advice, I checked my settings and noticed I had Secondary Audio turned ON. I immediately turned this off in order to get the HD Audio Codecs. Thanks a lot for this tip. I do have High Clarity turned ON, but I can not locate the Dialog Enhancer option. I would like to turn this ON as well as it doesn't hurt to get a few extra db's from the Center Channel. Can you please confirm where I can access this option. Thanks.
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post #3539 of 8497 Old 09-03-2011, 12:13 PM
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Since this is for a spare bedroom, and will mostly be used to stream content (Amazon VOD, as an example) and occasional BR/DVD, I figured what the heck. I do have the wireless receiver from my Panny 85 but can hardwire in a heartbeat.

Looking over the last few pages seems to indicate this unit doesn't do all the claimed features on the box. none of the review ssupport thatconclusion. Not being a smartbutt but is this a RTFM issue ar a bad firmware update????
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post #3540 of 8497 Old 09-03-2011, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger123 View Post

... I do have High Clarity turned ON, but I can not locate the Dialog Enhancer option. I would like to turn this ON as well as it doesn't hurt to get a few extra db's from the Center Channel. Can you please confirm where I can access this option. Thanks.

Tiger123 -- I'm doing this from memory, but I think you can access this from the Display menu during playback. There's an audio sub-menu there, which is where the Dialog Enhancer setting is located. I've read that the setting will persist from disc to disc, even though it's accessed from a playback menu.
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