Sony BDP-BX58 and BDP-S580 Owner's Thread-all questions/comments belong here - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 796 Old 03-08-2012, 04:03 AM
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at the end of the day cinavia is a hassle, and most the more popular ripping software now have features to circumvent cinavia.

But it is really a sad day for sony that every single DRM they have incorporated in blu-ray can be circumvented by commercial ripping software, so what is the point.

When 4k blu-rays start being produced, im sure they will invent BD+2, Cinavia 2, AACS 2, but within a month each one will be circumvented.

Sony is just going to hurt their own customers with all this DRM, it is not effective at all.
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post #542 of 796 Old 03-08-2012, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edlivian View Post

at the end of the day cinavia is a hassle, and most the more popular ripping software now have features to circumvent cinavia.

But it is really a sad day for sony that every single DRM they have incorporated in blu-ray can be circumvented by commercial ripping software, so what is the point.

When 4k blu-rays start being produced, im sure they will invent BD+2, Cinavia 2, AACS 2, but within a month each one will be circumvented.

Sony is just going to hurt their own customers with all this DRM, it is not effective at all.

Its the content providers driving this, not necessarily the consumer electronic manufactures. Sony admittedly are in both business though. All bluray players will eventually get this shortly. Folks can choose not to install firmware updates if you have a older player.
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post #543 of 796 Old 03-08-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edlivian View Post

at the end of the day cinavia is a hassle, and most the more popular ripping software now have features to circumvent cinavia.

But it is really a sad day for sony that every single DRM they have incorporated in blu-ray can be circumvented by commercial ripping software, so what is the point.

When 4k blu-rays start being produced, im sure they will invent BD+2, Cinavia 2, AACS 2, but within a month each one will be circumvented.

Sony is just going to hurt their own customers with all this DRM, it is not effective at all.

While I ultimately agree. I think that the number of people affected is going to be a small percentage of owners. The vast majority of users will only use this player for normal every day functions and will not see any issues. The number of owners that back up blurays has got to be a small number. Maybe less than 5%?
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post #544 of 796 Old 03-08-2012, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by paulinmn View Post

While I ultimately agree. I think that the number of people affected is going to be a small percentage of owners. The vast majority of users will only use this player for normal every day functions and will not see any issues. The number of owners that back up blurays has got to be a small number. Maybe less than 5%?

i guess i am the 1 percentile that use my s580 as a dlna client. But that was one of the reasons i bought this player

top reason was for having a good compatible player, second was because sony's intenet tv selection was quite diverse, and thirdly was for Dlna through Serviio.

If this player came with cinavia from the get go, I would have just bought a WD Live media player or possibly an LG blu-ray with smart-tv. But if you are leading me to believe that every manufacturer of blu-ray players is enabling cinavia, then I might just goto costco on sunday and stock up on BX58's.
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post #545 of 796 Old 03-09-2012, 09:24 PM
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I want no part of cinavia in any form. It corrupts the audio at the most basic analog/digital level - I did not buy into HD video and lossless audio in order to be stuck with corrupted entertainment media just to satisfy entertainment industry copy prevention paranoia. I do not purchase titles infected with cinavia - they are rental only. I have 3 bd players, and have no intentions of replacing them. I do not replace firmware until I am confident it really is an upgrade (which includes meaning NO CINAVIA POLLUTION). Maybe if Sony figures out this nonsense is costing them far more money than it generates in sales, they will refocus their money on product improvement to spur sales and attract customers instead of driving away those of us who actually value quality pq & aq.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #546 of 796 Old 03-09-2012, 10:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

I want no part of cinavia in any form. It corrupts the audio at the most basic analog/digital level - I did not buy into HD video and lossless audio in order to be stuck with corrupted entertainment media just to satisfy entertainment industry copy prevention paranoia. I do not purchase titles infected with cinavia - they are rental only. I have 3 bd players, and have no intentions of replacing them. I do not replace firmware until I am confident it really is an upgrade (which includes meaning NO CINAVIA POLLUTION). Maybe if Sony figures out this nonsense is costing them far more money than it generates in sales, they will refocus their money on product improvement to spur sales and attract customers instead of driving away those of us who actually value quality pq & aq.

I'd like to step in here and play devils advocate for a minute if that's cool?

First off, I thought Cinavia was another movie app. But obviously it isn't so I wonder what the big deal is? I'm sure Sony is more the studios (and Sony since they are a studio also) way of doing things not to alienate you and me, the minority, but rather the majority that are out to circumvent the system and not pay for the films.

That being said, my niece said she has been prompted 3X in a week to update the player and she said always yes. Is this Cinavia so detrimental that I need to tell my sister to exchange the player for one un-updated? Can the player (BX58) be rolled back? What is the LAST SAFE (NON-Cinavia) FW #??? And what is the FW # that introduces Cinavia? This way I can have my sister look and let me know.
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post #547 of 796 Old 03-10-2012, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by edlivian View Post

i guess i am the 1 percentile that use my s580 as a dlna client. But that was one of the reasons i bought this player

top reason was for having a good compatible player, second was because sony's intenet tv selection was quite diverse, and thirdly was for Dlna through Serviio.

If this player came with cinavia from the get go, I would have just bought a WD Live media player or possibly an LG blu-ray with smart-tv. But if you are leading me to believe that every manufacturer of blu-ray players is enabling cinavia, then I might just goto costco on sunday and stock up on BX58's.

You can add me to your 1%. I just installed and connected Serviio to my BX58 and am streaming video and audio. It choked on a couple of formats, but as soon as I know it better, I'll have all my media center video in whatever format plays best. BTW, the player immediately alerted me to a firmware update, which I declined. Anyway, this player definitely streams via DLNA. Found this on Cinavia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia It appears more than a few player manufacturers have not signed on with this DRM as yet, if you can trust the info on Wikipedia.
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post #548 of 796 Old 03-10-2012, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

I'd like to step in here and play devils advocate for a minute if that's cool?

First off, I thought Cinavia was another movie app. But obviously it isn't so I wonder what the big deal is? I'm sure Sony is more the studios (and Sony since they are a studio also) way of doing things not to alienate you and me, the minority, but rather the majority that are out to circumvent the system and not pay for the films.

That being said, my niece said she has been prompted 3X in a week to update the player and she said always yes. Is this Cinavia so detrimental that I need to tell my sister to exchange the player for one un-updated? Can the player (BX58) be rolled back? What is the LAST SAFE (NON-Cinavia) FW #??? And what is the FW # that introduces Cinavia? This way I can have my sister look and let me know.

This isn't necessarily about not paying for films (although I have no doubt that is the concern on some folks parts, and one would assume that is why Sony etc. are paying out money to verance for this copy prevention pollution in our players and titles). This is about corrupting pristine high definition audio tracks in order to hide something which can trigger program execution in a player when detected. That is the technology. Supposedly we cannot hear it - but a speaker reproduces it, and a microphone can detect and hear it. If the audio is played back on a device looking for the signal or whatever it is in the audio, it can then compare that to the source material being used. If you are playing it back via a device it doesn't like, it can shut it down. Ask a few PS3 owners how they liked it when after permitting their PS3 to update its firmware one day, suddenly their system being used as a media server started shutting down the audio on cinavia infected titles about 20 minutes into playback. Were some of those titles ripped from borrowed or rented media? Maybe. But how about the folks who purchased their blu-rays legitimately and just like the convenience of having them stored on their media server for selection and playback? Not any more. Where will this cinavia firmware pollution show up next? Receivers? TVs?
I think this is much more about flexibility and fair use rights for legitimate customers. I think I have the right to convert my legitimately purchased titles to a different device for transportability and playback without having to worry about what some programmer at Sony or verance has decided I can or cannot do.
So - I plan to avoid spending my hard earned dollars on any equipment, software or entertainment media infected with cinavia. I want the bean counters to suddenly realize someday that they are just throwing their money away when they send it to verance because all they are accomplishing is limiting the product value to their very best customers - folks like me. My purchases of Sony products has dropped like a rock since they started their infatuation with cinavia. Sony titles are pretty much 100$ rentals now for me. I direct my purchasing dollars elsewhere.
I have told family and friends to stop permitting automatic firmware updates from occurring until they actually have a problem - and even then, they should do their homework before trusting their BD player manufacturer firmware updates from now on.

As far as the Sony devices that have cinavia corrupted firmware (according to "Cinavia-Wikipedia"):
Sony PlayStation 3 (with firmware update version 3.10+)
Sony BDP-S185 / BDP-S186 (with firmware update version M09.R.0033+)
Sony BDP-S390 (with firmware update version M11.R.0147+)
Sony BDP-S480 / BDP-S485 / BDP-S580 / BDP-S780 (with firmware update version M07.R.0615+)
I have not heard of any way to remove the cinavia infection once it is in your player. Your best bet is to avoid being infected in the first place.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #549 of 796 Old 03-10-2012, 08:10 PM
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I have a Sony S580 that cannot connect to anything if my cell phone is connected to my wireless router. The S580 connects wirelessly to internet, Netflix/Amazon streaming, shared video files from my computer just fine if my husband's cell phone is connected to our wireless internet.
We have the same phone model: HTC Evo 4G from Sprint.
The Sony S580 works fine when our other devices are using the wireless connection at the same time:
*RCA BRC11072 Blu Ray player
*Husband's cell phone
*Two desktop computers

My husband says if he's using the S580's wireless connection for anything and I am not home, the connection drops as soon as I enter the front door with my cell phone on me.

It's a bother to disconnect my cell phone every time we want to stream music, movies, etc. It's also just not fair that my husband doesn't have this problem with his phone :-p

Any ideas on why my phone makes the Sony S580 unable to connect wirelessly?
My phone does not cause a problem for any other wireless device we own. They can all be on at once and the connection is very fast and smooth.

I'm not super tech savy so if you need more info, let me know. Our wireless router uses our cable internet connection thru a wired modem.

Thank you, in advance.
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post #550 of 796 Old 03-10-2012, 08:51 PM
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...went to play a 3d movie for some friends tonight and discovered that my harmony 1100 suddenly didn't control the unit anymore... Anyone else having any issues?

Luckily my PS3 was able to save the day...

-Aaron
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post #551 of 796 Old 03-10-2012, 08:53 PM
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Bought the s580 a month ago. Just tried playing some HD audio files from my PC through the HT system in another room, using the wireless DLNA connection from the s580.

Apparently, this player will not play --- or even pass through to the receiver --- any audio file with a sampling rate greater than 44.1kHz or more than 2 channels. Any 44.1/16 file plays fine over DLNA.

The player's DAC must support higher sampling rates and multi-channel, since it plays SACDs and blu-rays. Why not via DLNA?

Is this for real? Do I have some setting wrong, or did I just waste my money for this player?
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post #552 of 796 Old 03-10-2012, 09:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by springcheer View Post

I have a Sony S580 that cannot connect to anything if my cell phone is connected to my wireless router. The S580 connects wirelessly to internet, Netflix/Amazon streaming, shared video files from my computer just fine if my husband's cell phone is connected to our wireless internet.
We have the same phone model: HTC Evo 4G from Sprint.
The Sony S580 works fine when our other devices are using the wireless connection at the same time:
*RCA BRC11072 Blu Ray player
*Husband's cell phone
*Two desktop computers

My husband says if he's using the S580's wireless connection for anything and I am not home, the connection drops as soon as I enter the front door with my cell phone on me.

It's a bother to disconnect my cell phone every time we want to stream music, movies, etc. It's also just not fair that my husband doesn't have this problem with his phone :-p

Any ideas on why my phone makes the Sony S580 unable to connect wirelessly?
My phone does not cause a problem for any other wireless device we own. They can all be on at once and the connection is very fast and smooth.

I'm not super tech savy so if you need more info, let me know. Our wireless router uses our cable internet connection thru a wired modem.

Thank you, in advance.

Obviously NOT the phone itself but rather how the phone is setup. Use EVERY setting your husband uses on his cell phone, then one by one, change your phone setting(s) back on till you find which one is the problem setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTAaron View Post

...went to play a 3d movie for some friends tonight and discovered that my harmony 1100 suddenly didn't control the unit anymore... Anyone else having any issues?

Luckily my PS3 was able to save the day...

Did the 1100 control anything else? Did you try the factory remote?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryM44 View Post

Bought the s580 a month ago. Just tried playing some HD audio files from my PC through the HT system in another room, using the wireless DLNA connection from the s580.

Apparently, this player will not play --- or even pass through to the receiver --- any audio file with a sampling rate greater than 44.1kHz or more than 2 channels. Any 44.1/16 file plays fine over DLNA.

The player's DAC must support higher sampling rates and multi-channel, since it plays SACDs and blu-rays. Why not via DLNA?

Is this for real? Do I have some setting wrong, or did I just waste my money for this player?

DLNA is not perfect. It is limited by the hardware in the Sony as well as the DLNA program itself. There are AVR's that are high end (higher end than the Sony could hope to be) that won't play 96/24 or higher either.
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post #553 of 796 Old 03-10-2012, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Obviously NOT the phone itself but rather how the phone is setup. Use EVERY setting your husband uses on his cell phone, then one by one, change your phone setting(s) back on till you find which one is the problem setting.

Thank you! I am now streaming Netflix on 6 devices in my home and all are flawless.
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post #554 of 796 Old 03-11-2012, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

.

Did the 1100 control anything else? Did you try the factory remote?

Yes, controlled everything else perfectly, including the overhead lights that are on the same blaster connection of th RF extender. Didn't have the factory remote in the room, but I'm going to go try this morning.

Seemed like a strange problem to suddenly pop up!

-Aaron
My Basement Movie Room and Bar/Game Room - actually doing stuff now... please comment!
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post #555 of 796 Old 03-11-2012, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by PTAaron View Post


Yes, controlled everything else perfectly, including the overhead lights that are on the same blaster connection of th RF extender. Didn't have the factory remote in the room, but I'm going to go try this morning.

Seemed like a strange problem to suddenly pop up!

...and I should have tested more before posting! I unplugged and checked the connection to the RF extender and apparently it wasn't a solid connection.
I just noticed people talking about the firmware update - and (after a few beverages while playing pool before the movie) thought that somehow it ha affected the remote. Thinking clearly now - that wouldn't make the slightest bit of sense! LOL!

-Aaron
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post #556 of 796 Old 03-12-2012, 02:33 PM
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FWIW, I bit the bullet and updated my BX58 to the latest firmware last night in desperation trying to get the player to behave as a compliant DLNA client using Serviio. And, finally, it did. Yes, I am now infected with Cinavia, but as others have already noted, it'll probably take all of a month before some enterprising soul figures out a way around it when ripping. This whole issue reminds me of cop's radar and the detector manufactures seesaw.
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post #557 of 796 Old 03-12-2012, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Scrondar View Post

FWIW, I bit the bullet and updated my BX58 to the latest firmware last night in desperation trying to get the player to behave as a compliant DLNA client using Serviio. And, finally, it did. Yes, I am now infected with Cinavia, but as others have already noted, it'll probably take all of a month before some enterprising soul figures out a way around it when ripping. This whole issue reminds me of cop's radar and the detector manufactures seesaw.

You might be a bit TOO optimistic on the timetable. The first forum post over here ( http://forum.dvdfab.com/showthread.php?t=7102 ) was made on 7-30-2010. That's around the time the guys over at DVDFab first encountered Cinavia. They've been working on a fix since then and had a workaround for the PS3, but that loophole was closed up with the last PS3 firmware upgrade. So... Cinavia has been around for over 18 months without a complete fix. The guys at DVDFab and AnyDVD both say that they are working on the issue and there has been at least one promising post from someone who says he may have detected the signal in the audio track, but how long it will take to get the fix working properly? Who knows. Ultimately it will just be the whole cat and mouse game, just like the iPhone and apple closing jailbreak loopholes and developers having to find a new loophole to exploit. That's why I'll never update the firmware on my S580 again.
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post #558 of 796 Old 03-13-2012, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Scrondar View Post

FWIW, I bit the bullet and updated my BX58 to the latest firmware last night in desperation trying to get the player to behave as a compliant DLNA client using Serviio. And, finally, it did. .

what issues did you have with serviio with the last firmware?

I have been streaming from serviio perfectly fine on the last firmware, i want to know please what has changed.
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post #559 of 796 Old 03-13-2012, 08:52 AM
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the s590 apparently has the updated stock netflix ui that other players have supports 1080p + 5.1, do you think the s580 will get this as well?
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post #560 of 796 Old 03-13-2012, 10:18 AM
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Can someone help me please?! I've not read ALL 19 pages of this thread so I don't know if this question was already asked/answered, so forgive me if it has been and just direct me to the answer please.

Problem: I have a BX58 and the remote seems to have grown legs and walked out of my house. I want to program my universal remote to control the player but can't find a code. I've gone through the tedious process of trying to scan for the code via remote with no luck. Does anyone know the code? My kids are desperate to watch Netflix and discs.

Thank you in advance!!
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post #561 of 796 Old 03-13-2012, 10:26 AM
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That depends entirely on your remote. I can tell you that all Sony BD players use the same code, which is DVD 1516 (21516) on UEI remotes (one for all, directv, charter, cox, time Warner, etc.). If you need to buy a remote, the RCA RCRP05B is only $15 and available just about everywhere and will perform every function of the original and then some using the advanced codes I've posted in other Sony threads.

I can also tell you that this code only exists in fairly new remotes. Even most Sony remotes still don't have it. So if your code search didn't work, then your remote doesn't have the code, and you'll have to buy another remote anyway. If you are partial to harmony, they have Sony BD codes as well.
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post #562 of 796 Old 03-13-2012, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ShutterBugg View Post

Can someone help me please?! I've not read ALL 19 pages of this thread so I don't know if this question was already asked/answered, so forgive me if it has been and just direct me to the answer please.

Problem: I have a BX58 and the remote seems to have grown legs and walked out of my house. I want to program my universal remote to control the player but can't find a code. I've gone through the tedious process of trying to scan for the code via remote with no luck. Does anyone know the code? My kids are desperate to watch Netflix and discs.

Thank you in advance!!

You can buy a new remote directly from Sony parts, for ~$8
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post #563 of 796 Old 03-13-2012, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by paulinmn View Post

You might be a bit TOO optimistic on the timetable. The first forum post over here ( http://forum.dvdfab.com/showthread.php?t=7102 ) was made on 7-30-2010. That's around the time the guys over at DVDFab first encountered Cinavia. They've been working on a fix since then and had a workaround for the PS3, but that loophole was closed up with the last PS3 firmware upgrade. So... Cinavia has been around for over 18 months without a complete fix. The guys at DVDFab and AnyDVD both say that they are working on the issue and there has been at least one promising post from someone who says he may have detected the signal in the audio track, but how long it will take to get the fix working properly? Who knows. Ultimately it will just be the whole cat and mouse game, just like the iPhone and apple closing jailbreak loopholes and developers having to find a new loophole to exploit. That's why I'll never update the firmware on my S580 again.

Hmmmn, interesting. Well, you know the industry is constantly finding ways to make things more difficult for the consumer, while telling us how much they are doing for us and how happy we ought to be. The only discs I plan on sticking in this unit are factory originals; otherwise it will stream Netflix, Amazon, etc. and DLNA content. So far, so good. If it stops doing the latter, back it goes to Costco.
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post #564 of 796 Old 03-13-2012, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

You can buy a new remote directly from Sony parts, for ~$8

Or just get a Harmony and be done with it. I have one remote in my BR (Harmony 300) and no less than four in my living room, one of which is the Sony. Time for a Harmony 700 in the LR?
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post #565 of 796 Old 03-13-2012, 12:58 PM
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Or just get a Harmony and be done with it. I have one remote in my BR (Harmony 300) and no less than four in my living room, one of which is the Sony. Time for a Harmony 700 in the LR?

700 is a good remote. The 300 stinks because it can only do one macro. It only makes sense if you have just one or two devices. The RCA I posted is much more powerful than the 300 and only half the price.

In any case, a universal is much better than the Sony remote and about the same price if you count shipping.
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post #566 of 796 Old 03-13-2012, 05:09 PM
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If you have an android tablet or phone there is an app to remote control the S580.

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post #567 of 796 Old 03-13-2012, 05:29 PM
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... there is also an iOS app. Problem is you need a remote to enable it in the setup before the app will work.
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post #568 of 796 Old 03-13-2012, 09:30 PM
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I got a LG 390 back in Dec. 09 and it served me well but the darn thing isn't reading 90% of my discs since the begging of Feb. so I'm thinking the laser is fried.

So, I start doing research and came across the BDPS580. Liked what I read for reviews and features but saw many a mention of the interface "clunkiness". I know that Firmware upgrades sometime improve things so I thought I would search out info to see if there has been improvements since March '11 when the reviews came out.

Got to the AVS Forums and saw mentions of Cinavia and I've not encountered this before so obviously I'm suddenly nervous about getting one of these units.... Was wondering if I could get some general feedback from some of you current owners.

Yes, I do DLNA. I also like using YouTube and Netflix (Searching on my BD390 doesn't happen but the Insignia in my bedroom does - odd, no? :P) and the thought of Hulu+ and other apps is quite appealing.

I've got a 4 year old so I do have backup copies of some kids dvds because lets face it, a 4 year old can make a videophile go broke rather quickly when it comes to wear and tear on titles like "Mickey Beach Party". I don't back up Blu-Ray as I've found the BD50s to be very expensive and the software not friendly enough - and I've got enough drink coasters so I don't need to add to my collection.

Thanks!
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post #569 of 796 Old 03-14-2012, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edlivian View Post

what issues did you have with serviio with the last firmware?

I have been streaming from serviio perfectly fine on the last firmware, i want to know please what has changed.

Serviio would just loose it's connection with the player. Nothing I tried would reconnect it, even though it saw the player. Now, with the latest (DRM tainted) firmware, it holds its connection consistently. I'd rather not have to deal with Cinavia, but streaming is a must for me.
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post #570 of 796 Old 03-14-2012, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

700 is a good remote. The 300 stinks because it can only do one macro. It only makes sense if you have just one or two devices. The RCA I posted is much more powerful than the 300 and only half the price.

In any case, a universal is much better than the Sony remote and about the same price if you count shipping.

Well, it controls all four devices in my BR quite nicely, and I have yet to need a macro function for it. I wouldn't pick it for my LR; a much more capable model is called for there. But, we digress. I keep the original remote handy only in those rare cases where the Harmony cannot or does not control a certain function (e.g., on-screen setup for my receiver).
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