Yamaha BD-A1010 Universal Player - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by wrxman View Post

192 kHz / 24-bit DAC Wolfson WM8728 DAC

After seeing the specs on that DAC, you really should use the Yamaha's multi-channel analog section if your receiver has the inputs for it and doesn't apply any analog-to-PCM conversion. My receiver, the VSX-32, uses Burr-Brown PCM1691 DAC, which is better than the WM8728. While the Yamaha's built-in DAC is better than the DACs in your receiver and mine, my receiver doesn't have multi-channel analog input. So SACD output set to PCM at 176.4 KHz via HDMI is going to be the best I can get. Because you can use the AKM DAC in the Yamaha, you might be a little bit better off than me. Congradulations on that one!
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Old 12-23-2011, 09:33 AM
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After seeing the specs on that DAC, you really should use the Yamaha's multi-channel analog section if your receiver has the inputs for it and doesn't apply any analog-to-PCM conversion. My receiver, the VSX-32, uses Burr-Brown PCM1691 DAC, which is better than the WM8728. While the Yamaha's built-in DAC is better than the DACs in your receiver and mine, my receiver doesn't have multi-channel analog input. So SACD output set to PCM at 176.4 KHz via HDMI is going to be the best I can get. Because you can use the AKM DAC in the Yamaha, you might be a little bit better off than me. Congradulations on that one!

lol... I hear ya. I really hate my BDP-51 started to fail, it had multiple Wolfson WM8740 DAC's. It could only play redbook CD's (well, Blueray and DVD-V too) but it was a phenomenal CD transport. I have the BDP-51 listed on Audigon now .

The best I have been able to obtain out the VSX03 is 88.2khz when the Yamaha is sending PCM. Yes, I have the multi-analog inputs on the VSX03, but I think I will stick to DSD over HDMI for simplicity. My hearing is not the best, getting too old and fired too many shotguns as a kid . My wife is a novice sound engineer for live stage productions and her hearing is much better than mine; I have auditioned several setups for her with the Yamaha and she likes the sound of the DSD arrangement. She was able to hear faults in the piano tuning on various recordings...so if she can do that, I am very happy with the quality!
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Old 12-23-2011, 02:10 PM
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I have yet to give A1010's analog section a run, since I have a standalone CD player already.

May be I should try it out someday.

BD-A1010/CD-S1000/PF60
HTR-6290/A-S1000/KDL46V5100
NS-555/SOAVO-900C/NS-125F

BD - 242
HD - 7
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by wrxman View Post

lol... I hear ya. I really hate my BDP-51 started to fail, it had multiple Wolfson WM8740 DAC's. It could only play redbook CD's (well, Blueray and DVD-V too) but it was a phenomenal CD transport. I have the BDP-51 listed on Audigon now .

The best I have been able to obtain out the VSX03 is 88.2khz when the Yamaha is sending PCM. Yes, I have the multi-analog inputs on the VSX03, but I think I will stick to DSD over HDMI for simplicity. My hearing is not the best, getting too old and fired too many shotguns as a kid . My wife is a novice sound engineer for live stage productions and her hearing is much better than mine; I have auditioned several setups for her with the Yamaha and she likes the sound of the DSD arrangement. She was able to hear faults in the piano tuning on various recordings...so if she can do that, I am very happy with the quality!

Wait. Did you say even when the Yamaha sends SACD as PCM, your VSX-03 says FS 88.2 KHz? If that was me, I would have a hard time accepting that especially after being told that the player can convert DSD to PCM at 176.4 KHz. Does your VSX-03 have a PURE DIRECT mode? Try turning that on and check the FS value. If it says 176.4 KHz, then that means that the VSX-03 cannot apply processing such as Phase Control, MCACC, downmixing, and bass management without lowering the FS value. My surround speakers aren't directly behind me. They're towards the rere left of my listening position. I'm sure there is a way to electronicly correct that, but I'd rather keep a higher FS value for better tone quality. Regarding the settings on the BD-A1010: Are you aware of the SACD Output submenu in the AUDIO page? Particularly, under HDMI, the choices of DSD or PCM? If set to PCM, maybe you should set all the speakers to LARGE and the subwoofer to ENABLE. I don't know why, but it bugs me that you're not able to obtain the 176.4 KHz FS value I'm obtaining, and I'd like to see if I could solve the problem.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Big C View Post

Wait. Did you say even when the Yamaha sends SACD as PCM, your VSX-03 says FS 88.2 KHz? If that was me, I would have a hard time accepting that especially after being told that the player can convert DSD to PCM at 176.4 KHz. Does your VSX-03 have a PURE DIRECT mode? Try turning that on and check the FS value. If it says 176.4 KHz, then that means that the VSX-03 cannot apply processing such as Phase Control, MCACC, downmixing, and bass management without lowering the FS value. My surround speakers aren't directly behind me. They're towards the rere left of my listening position. I'm sure there is a way to electronicly correct that, but I'd rather keep a higher FS value for better tone quality. Regarding the settings on the BD-A1010: Are you aware of the SACD Output submenu in the AUDIO page? Particularly, under HDMI, the choices of DSD or PCM? If set to PCM, maybe you should set all the speakers to LARGE and the subwoofer to ENABLE. I don't know why, but it bugs me that you're not able to obtain the 176.4 KHz FS value I'm obtaining, and I'd like to see if I could solve the problem.

I believe you are correct!..I switched the VSX03 to Pure Direct mode and it just displays PCM DIRECT on the screen now instead of 88.2 PCM. It doesn't list the frequency any more. Sounds very good but it sounded good before! The VSX-03 doesnt list the FS value during the Status cycle.

I use Pure Direct all the time on the analog inputs so I didnt really think about it with the HDMI hookup.

Thanks for your help!
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Old 12-24-2011, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by wrxman View Post

I believe you are correct!..I switched the VSX03 to Pure Direct mode and it just displays PCM DIRECT on the screen now instead of 88.2 PCM. It doesn't list the frequency any more. Sounds very good but it sounded good before! The VSX-03 doesnt list the FS value during the Status cycle.

I use Pure Direct all the time on the analog inputs so I didnt really think about it with the HDMI hookup.

Thanks for your help!

But if your VSX-03 is not giving the FS value, how do you know that the 176.4 KHz PCM signal is being converted from digital directly to analog? Shouldn't it still be showing an FS value?
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Old 12-24-2011, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Big C View Post

But if your VSX-03 is not giving the FS value, how do you know that the 176.4 KHz PCM signal is being converted from digital directly to analog? Shouldn't it still be showing an FS value?

I went digging through VSX03 manual again. I found a very tiny footnote that stated PCM is supported over HDMI at the following frequencies: 32, 44.1, 88.2, and 96 kHz

Oh well, we tried... looks like I will have to upgrade the receiver (my wife will shoot me if I even suggest it ) ! Everything still sounds wonderful in the current arrangement.

I may have to start pondering the new Yamaha receivers to match up with the BD1010 .... hehe!

Thanks for your help!
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Old 12-24-2011, 11:21 AM
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Yamaha BD-A1010 & VCD?

Looking at Yamaha's very bad comparison table between the A1000 & A1010, aside from the fact that the A1010 is "just about all blank", I noticed that the VCD format was listed for the A1000. The manual doesn't say that the A1000 will play VCD disks.

Finally decided to try 1 of 4 VCDs I have & found that the A1000 does play it! Granted the resolution isn't as good as DVD, I'm unable to replace the 4 that I have.

Just curious if the A1010 will also play VCDs; if not, then perhaps that may be another reason for the price drop outside of the component out restrictions by the video industry.

Never heard of any blu-ray players capable of playing the VCD/SVCD type disks but I got one now!
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Old 12-24-2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxman View Post

I went digging through VSX03 manual again. I found a very tiny footnote that stated PCM is supported over HDMI at the following frequencies: 32, 44.1, 88.2, and 96 kHz

Oh well, we tried... looks like I will have to upgrade the receiver (my wife will shoot me if I even suggest it ) ! Everything still sounds wonderful in the current arrangement.

I may have to start pondering the new Yamaha receivers to match up with the BD1010 .... hehe!

Thanks for your help!

Try taking advantage of the Yamaha's DAC and connect it to your receiver via multi-channel analog. According to the written specs, the particular AKM multi-channel DAC in the 1010 is better than the particular Wolfsons in your VSX-03. Also, the AKM DAC in the Yamaha will accept pure DSD and according to the specs on the Yamaha's AKM DAC, there is no mention of the 50 KHz cutoff filter. So you might be able to reproduce tones up to 100 KHz during SACD playback. When DSD is converted to PCM at 176.4 KHz, you get a frequency response of up to 80 KHz, which is good if you're on a budget, yet you need to go the HDMI route like me. Once you have the player connected via both methods, do a side-by-side comparison and find out which one sounds better. According to the written specs on the DACs, I would think that you might get better results when connected via multi-channel analog. Try it and see. Play with it.
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Old 12-25-2011, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxman View Post

I went digging through VSX03 manual again. I found a very tiny footnote that stated PCM is supported over HDMI at the following frequencies: 32, 44.1, 88.2, and 96 kHz

Oh well, we tried... looks like I will have to upgrade the receiver (my wife will shoot me if I even suggest it ) ! Everything still sounds wonderful in the current arrangement.

I may have to start pondering the new Yamaha receivers to match up with the BD1010 .... hehe!

Thanks for your help!

My Onkyo DV-SP506 can send 6 ch PCM over HDMI at 176.4.

My Pioneer VSX-01TXH receiver shows "PCM 176 Stereo" when the stereo layer of a SACD is played.

When switching to the multichannel layer, the VSX-01 displays "PCM 88.2" even though the Onkyo is sending a 176.4 signal.

Pure Direct does not display frequency.

My Yamaha RX-V765 does accept and display a 176.4 multichannel PCM signal being received with the same Onkyo player.
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Old 12-25-2011, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Stilly77 View Post

My Onkyo DV-SP506 can send 6 ch PCM over HDMI at 176.4.

My Pioneer VSX-01TXH receiver shows "PCM 176 Stereo" when the stereo layer of a SACD is played.

When switching to the multichannel layer, the VSX-01 displays "PCM 88.2" even though the Onkyo is sending a 176.4 signal.

Pure Direct does not display frequency.

My Yamaha RX-V765 does accept and display a 176.4 multichannel PCM signal being received with the same Onkyo player.

Cool! Thanks for the info!

I will try the two channel layer of the SACD and see how the VSX-03 performs.

Too many nerd knobs!

Merry Christmas!
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Old 12-25-2011, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by wrxman View Post

Cool! Thanks for the info!

I will try the two channel layer of the SACD and see how the VSX-03 performs.

Too many nerd knobs!

Merry Christmas!

Yes, it works! I am getting the "PCM 176 Stereo" on the VSX-03!

Thanks again!
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:36 PM
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Hi guys, I wanted to chime in here.

I just got the A1010 last week and it has been working well -- way better than the Pioneer 53 that I returned.

I took your suggestions about settings for the SACD playback. I use my HDMI cable and it is plugged in to my new Elite SC-55 receiver. I put the receiver on PURE DIRECT and changed my Yamaha to SACD on PCM. When I hit Status, I get the 176 fs on the Pioneer screen. What does fs mean?

What kind of difference in sound should I notice?
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jrlnc View Post

Hi guys, I wanted to chime in here.

I just got the A1010 last week and it has been working well -- way better than the Pioneer 53 that I returned.

I took your suggestions about settings for the SACD playback. I use my HDMI cable and it is plugged in to my new Elite SC-55 receiver. I put the receiver on PURE DIRECT and changed my Yamaha to SACD on PCM. When I hit Status, I get the 176 fs on the Pioneer screen. What does fs mean?

What kind of difference in sound should I notice?

If you have sensative hearing, you might notice more overtones with PCM at 176.4 KHz as opposed to PCM at 88.2 KHz. Set the Yamaha to DSD. Play the multi-channel area of an SACD. Now the SC-55 will convert DSD to PCM at 88.2 KHz. Then set the Yamaha back to PCM. Play the same track and see if you notice a difference. Btw, FS means frequency sampling, frequency sampled, or something like that.
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:42 AM
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Is anyone having trouble with the 1010 playing back recordable 50GB disks? I have 3 that will play that are 2D but the 3D 50GB will not play back.

Funny thing is, the PS3 will play back the 3D 50GB disk... I just hope it is a media issue and not something the player will choke on.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:35 AM
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Hi, I think it must be a media issue, as my 1010 blu-ray player has played all 2D and 3D movies I can throw at it.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:00 PM
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I am undergoing a change of heart. My BD-A1010 doesn't have a gamma control. My TV has a low gamma level. So I plan on using it for SACD surround sound and Netflix streaming. I'll be using my Pioneer BDP-23FD for all movies, as well as standard CD audio discs. It has the adjustable gamma control I need for watching DVDs and BDs, as well as the PQLS jitter reduction I need for CD audio discs and BD audio streams.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamester5 View Post

Is anyone having trouble with the 1010 playing back recordable 50GB disks? I have 3 that will play that are 2D but the 3D 50GB will not play back.

Funny thing is, the PS3 will play back the 3D 50GB disk... I just hope it is a media issue and not something the player will choke on.

It ended up being a back up issue, I had not used the right format to back up the disk. I had clicked the wrong box. The Yamaha is now playing everything I have given it.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:12 PM
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Hi Big C,
Thanks for all your detailed input on this thread.
I am seriously considering the BD-A1010 to replace my DVD-S657. From what I have read elsewhere, I believe that the BD-A1010 also has a multi-channel DAC and a dedicated 2-Channel DAC.
Is this correct, AND what are the actual DAC chips that it uses?
(I assume you've had the cover off yours!)
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by surprisetech View Post

Hi Big C,
Thanks for all your detailed input on this thread.
I am seriously considering the BD-A1010 to replace my DVD-S657. From what I have read elsewhere, I believe that the BD-A1010 also has a multi-channel DAC and a dedicated 2-Channel DAC.
Is this correct, AND what are the actual DAC chips that it uses?
(I assume you've had the cover off yours!)

AK4358 and WM8524

BD-A1010/CD-S1000/PF60
HTR-6290/A-S1000/KDL46V5100
NS-555/SOAVO-900C/NS-125F

BD - 242
HD - 7
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Old 01-11-2012, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TuenMuner View Post

AK4358 and WM8524

Thanks TuenMuner. Quick reply much appreciated.

I need a player that has both multi-channel and stereo analog outs, and this seems to be the only one at this price point.

The Oppo BDP-93 and Cambrige 651BD are missing the dedicated stereo analog out which I want to connect directly to my Stereo Receiver for playback of CD's and 2-channel DVD-A or SACD material.

The Denon DBP 1611, Marantz UD5005 and the Pioneers are missing the multi-channel analog out which I want to connect to my processor for playback of 5.1 channel DVD-A/SACD material, and the Blu-Ray audio formats.

Have you had the opportunity to compare CD and SACD playback between your BD-A1010 and the CD-S1000?

I will eventually get a new Receiver, but it's not on the agenda at present. Even then, I would still need to address the DVD-A and SACD decoding issues that seem to bug many owners of universal players.
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surprisetech View Post

The Denon DBP 1611, Marantz UD5005 and the Pioneers are missing the multi-channel analog out which I want to connect to my processor for playback of 5.1 channel DVD-A/SACD material, and the Blu-Ray audio formats.

Have you had the opportunity to compare CD and SACD playback between your BD-A1010 and the CD-S1000?

The Denon/Marantz twins seemed to be the close relatives of BD-A1010 from what I saw, but like you said they both lack multi-channel analog output, so you don't really have a lot of choices.

Yes I did compare the audio between my Yamahas:

BD-A1010 to RX-V1900 via HDMI to A-S1000;
CD-S1000 to A-S1000 directly via RCA

Multi-channel DSD playback is very good, but 2-channel playback for both CD and SACD isn't as good as my CD-S1000 setup. I would guess that if I use optical cable it may have some improvement due to the elimination of HDMI jitter...but I am no expert on this matter, so this is only my guesses. Mind you that the DAC on my CD-S1000(PCM1796) is far superior compare to my RX-V1900.

BD-A1010/CD-S1000/PF60
HTR-6290/A-S1000/KDL46V5100
NS-555/SOAVO-900C/NS-125F

BD - 242
HD - 7
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Old 01-12-2012, 05:59 PM
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Anyone know why this unit is not available to purchase other than direct from Yamaha? Every dealer I checked shows out of stock and has for quite a while now. Seems strange.
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuenMuner View Post

AK4358 and WM8524

Strangely, the AK4358 multi-channel DAC is better than the WM8524 stereo DAC. You'd think that they'd use a better stereo DAC. Of course, I'm going by the written signal-to-noise ratios and dynamic ranges of the two DACs, as well as the fact that the AK4358 is DSD capable, while the WM8524 is not.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:19 AM
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Does the BD-A1010 have better image quality for blu ray and dvd than the BD-S671? Better scaler perhaps, or is it the same?

How about the analog stereo out (for br/dvd sound, that is)? That is what I will be using, so I'd like to have better analog sound quality than what models like the x10 prom Panasonic or the 6700 from Samsung offer.

Other improvements in the 1010? Quicker loaind of BR maybe? Or can one just pick the 671 if SACD is of no concern?

Are there many bugs reported in Yamaha players? I first had the Panasonic 310. Excellent image quality, but analog sound is shut off when setting the player to 24p. Since then I try to find out about these kind of bugs before buying.
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Old 01-14-2012, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jhm_vbnl View Post

Does the BD-A1010 have better image quality for blu ray and dvd than the BD-S671? Better scaler perhaps, or is it the same?

How about the analog stereo out (for br/dvd sound, that is)? That is what I will be using, so I'd like to have better analog sound quality than what models like the x10 prom Panasonic or the 6700 from Samsung offer.

Other improvements in the 1010? Quicker loaind of BR maybe? Or can one just pick the 671 if SACD is of no concern?

Are there many bugs reported in Yamaha players? I first had the Panasonic 310. Excellent image quality, but analog sound is shut off when setting the player to 24p. Since then I try to find out about these kind of bugs before buying.

I cant speak to the comparison with BD-S671 on image. I have used the stereo and multi-channel analog outs on the BD-A1010:

Stereo analogs - provides a broad sound stage, but with a noticeable increase in low bass notes. Everything else sounds fairly neutral, which is compliment for a DAC.

Multi-channel - the imaging is very precise, but the bass is lacking. I have even bumped my receiver up 10dba on the multi-channel input for the sub-woofer and it still sounds a bit absent. This occurs with CD's, SACD, and DVD-A.

HDMI of DSD and DVD-A to my receiver - sounds great as well, but I get to take advantage of Phase Control and all the room balancing algorithms in my receiver. I have a VSX-03 Receiver that uses a decent Wolfson DAC, and seems to work better for less precise recordings like rock, etc.


Load times for BD seems to be alright, much faster than my old Pioneer. I have not noticed any bug problems. From my earlier posts, the Internet GUI for this unit feels very "Beta" release and has a lot of opportunity for improvement. I am having a hard time finding a decent wireless bridge to get a steady connection from the BD-A1010 to my Asus Dual-N band router (this router rocks btw).

I have an older Yamaha DVD-S1800 Universal Player, the build quality of the unit and remote are better in my opinion. The sound quality from the DAC's are quite good. I can't say if it is better than the BD-A1010, I like the performance of both.
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:02 PM
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Is the BD-A1010 using the MediaTek for upscaling and deinterlacing? Or is it using something like Anchor Bay's ABT1018 or ABT2015, or Marvell's QDEO ? If not, is it using Silicon Optic's Relta or Faroudja FLI2310?
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:27 AM
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Hi,
I haven't been able to get Yamaha's AV controller iPhone App to communicate with the A1010. The strange part is I also have a Yamaha A3000 which the App is able to automatically detect and I am able to control.

On the BD player, the "Network Control" option is set to "On" and the DHCP server on my router shows the player has been assigned an IP address. I tried to to specify this IP address manually in the App, but still no luck in linking to the A1010.

Anyone have experience with this App and the A1010?
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post

Strangely, the AK4358 multi-channel DAC is better than the WM8524 stereo DAC. You'd think that they'd use a better stereo DAC. Of course, I'm going by the written signal-to-noise ratios and dynamic ranges of the two DACs, as well as the fact that the AK4358 is DSD capable, while the WM8524 is not.

It is very hard to say why Yamaha made that decision. I currently have a Pioneer BDP-51FD Blu Ray player and a Yamaha DVD-S2700 DVD player, both hooked up via HDMI to my Samsung TV and by 2ch RCAs to a Yamaha AX-592 integrated amplifier. Not long ago I made as best comaprisons as I could between the aforementioned players and an Arcam CD37. My amp and speakers were different, I had a Krell KAV-400xi and Dynaudio Contour 1.3SE speakers. I felt the Yamaha and Pioneer were very nearly as good as the Arcam (over $2000.00 list!).

I love the DVD-S2700, which uses all CS4398 chips for DSD. This DVD player looks and feels high-end, beter yet, it sounds high-end! Also of note is the quality of DVD upscaling, well made DVDs nearly rival Blu Ray through this beast! The Pioneer is also an exceptional Blu Ray, DVD, and CD player but it is painfully slow. The key to both players being so good at audio and video I believe is the fact that they utilize isolated power supplies and boards for audio and video processing.

After owning many high end products from companies such as Krell, Bryston, PS Audio, Cambridge Audio, etc, I have the utmost respect for Yamaha. They are more than capable of manufacturing very well made, excellent sounding equipment.
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:06 PM
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The comparison between DVD-S2700 and BD-A1010 isn't a fair one, S2700 was a direct rival of the $1000-class like Denon 3930Ci/Pioneer DV-79AVi/Marantz DV9600. Clearly a class or two higher than A1010(although it plays BD)

BD-A1010/CD-S1000/PF60
HTR-6290/A-S1000/KDL46V5100
NS-555/SOAVO-900C/NS-125F

BD - 242
HD - 7
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Tags
Yamaha , Yamaha Bd A1010bl Blu Ray Disc Player , Blu Ray Players , Yamaha Rx A1000 Receiver , Yamaha Rx V667 Receiver , Receivers Amplifiers
Gear in this thread - A1010bl by PriceGrabber.com
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