What features would you like in your next Oppo BR - e.g. Oppo BDP-113 and BDP-115. - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

With two years of lead time since the 93 was released, i find it hard to believe gapless playback has eluded Oppo/Mediatek unless it just wasn't a priority.

It is not MediaTek's priority since only OPPO really wants it. Their other vendors (Sony, Panasonic, etc) don't really care about user generated media. If the people who are buying millions of units don't want it, why put in the resources? This is similar to reasons why companies like Amazon, Hulu and other streaming services are not offering their support to OPPO, as OPPO can only bring in or retain several thousand customers, versus several hundred thousand or more customers.
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post #452 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

It is not MediaTek's priority since only OPPO really wants it. Their other vendors (Sony, Panasonic, etc) don't really care about user generated media. If the people who are buying millions of units don't want it, why put in the resources? This is similar to reasons why companies like Amazon, Hulu and other streaming services are not offering their support to OPPO, as OPPO can only bring in or retain several thousand customers, versus several hundred thousand or more customers.

I hope you can appreciate the frustration since it shouldn't be that difficult to figure it out with more and more media streamers and software players incorporating the feature. If it was a video-related flaw, instead of audio-related, I'll bet it would have already been addressed.

If Oppo can't rely on their chip-maker to support user generated media, they should start looking for other solutions. After all, ripping CDs to digital media is hardly new and not going away any time soon.

Since my post seems to have been overlooked in the 103/105 thread, can you answer it here?

"In my never-ending quest to achieve gapless playback, is it possible that the SMB/CIFS Access could allow the Oppo to read a cue sheet with track points? Assuming there are hardware limitations that prevent gapless playback directly, maybe there could be some ability to recognize a .cue file and have gapless playback through a software solution via a cue sheet? I believe this is how some Dune players achieve gapless playback."
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post #453 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

I hope you can appreciate the frustration since it shouldn't be that difficult to figure it out with more and more media streamers and software players incorporating the feature. If it was a video-related flaw, instead of audio-related, I'll bet it would have already been addressed.

No. Look at the BDP-83 which still have issues with user generated files showing up stretched because there was a bug in the MediaTek SDK that stopped sending AR data to the ABT VRS. This issue is resolved by changing the Primary Output to COMPONENT, but it is still a long standing issue with the player.
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"In my never-ending quest to achieve gapless playback, is it possible that the SMB/CIFS Access could allow the Oppo to read a cue sheet with track points? Assuming there are hardware limitations that prevent gapless playback directly, maybe there could be some ability to recognize a .cue file and have gapless playback through a software solution via a cue sheet? I believe this is how some Dune players achieve gapless playback."

As far as I know CUE/PLS is not supported. This was something that was being investigated in the firmware development, but at this time it is not and there is no guarantee that it will be.

The only way to get gapless audio is to transcode (so the server just keeps making one massive file), you re-encode the file as a single file, or you use USB (BDP-105 only) to push data to the player.
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post #454 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post


The only way to get gapless audio is to transcode (so the server just keeps making one massive file), you re-encode the file as a single file, or you use USB (BDP-105 only) to push data to the player.

I use the second option currently. Can you explain how the USB option on the 105 will work yet? I use a pc or some other device connected to the Oppo to play audio tracks with a software player such as Foobar? How would that be different than if I connect the pc directly to my AVR via HDMI?
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post #455 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 12:04 PM
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Basically the player works as an external soundcard. The computer will be processing the file then sends it to the BDP-105 to be processed into analog (or remain digital if you want to use HDMI, digital coaxial or optical output). So you can get gapless playback since the PC, not the player, is doing the audio decoding and processing.

Asynchronous USB is better as it does not suffer from jitter (something HDMI is notorious for) and the clocking is controlled by the DAC, rather than the computer's internal clock. Overall accuracy should be higher.
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post #456 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Basically the player works as an external soundcard. The computer will be processing the file then sends it to the BDP-105 to be processed into analog (or remain digital if you want to use HDMI, digital coaxial or optical output). So you can get gapless playback since the PC, not the player, is doing the audio decoding and processing.

Hmmm...while I like that you can get gapless playback via analog output, for a digital solution, it's an expensive alternative to a much cheaper streamer, or just using a pc directly to the AVR.
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post #457 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 12:41 PM
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I don't think it would necessarily only be analog output. Wouldn't the 105's DAC be able to put out a PCM stream via HDMI to a receiver? Though I suspect none of the beta testers can tell us at this time.

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post #458 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

I don't think it would necessarily only be analog output. Wouldn't the 105's DAC be able to put out a PCM stream via HDMI to a receiver? Though I suspect none of the beta testers can tell us at this time.

I think Neuromancer answered in the affirmative.

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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Basically the player works as an external soundcard. The computer will be processing the file then sends it to the BDP-105 to be processed into analog (or remain digital if you want to use HDMI, digital coaxial or optical output). So you can get gapless playback since the PC, not the player, is doing the audio decoding and processing.
Asynchronous USB is better as it does not suffer from jitter (something HDMI is notorious for) and the clocking is controlled by the DAC, rather than the computer's internal clock. Overall accuracy should be higher.
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post #459 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 02:24 PM
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Assuming we have 4k capable TV and a 4K capable Bluray player, would a current BD disk look really better ? I can't find any intel on upcoming 4K media.

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post #460 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 02:30 PM
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I think, I will sit that one out until this is incorporated. Plus upgrading every year is a bot expensive at over a $1000 for the 105 frown.gif

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post #461 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

Assuming we have 4k capable TV and a 4K capable Bluray player, would a current BD disk look really better ? I can't find any intel on upcoming 4K media.

Not anytime soon plus 8K is in the wing, give me OLED at LED prices and that will make me happy smile.gif
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post #462 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 04:18 PM
 
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Yikes, $1200 for gapless and requirement of another computing device to boot. eek.gif
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post #463 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 04:21 PM
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Not anytime soon plus 8K is in the wing, give me OLED at LED prices and that will make me happy smile.gif

8K is hardly in the wing. It has merely been demonstrated by the Japanese. It is years away from production.

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post #464 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

Assuming we have 4k capable TV and a 4K capable Bluray player, would a current BD disk look really better ? I can't find any intel on upcoming 4K media.

There's been some talk that there will be 4k movies will debut and CES this year. Not sure of the details. I have a 4k projector. I would be curious how the scaling on the Oppo is. I plan to have this player upon release.

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post #465 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 05:32 PM
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oh well oppo, so much for making this a "media hub" or whatever it is you are pretending to be focused on. I'll just keep the one I have and use it for playing hard media which I like a lot (thank you). Computer and external hard drive playback will be through my receiver via HDMI or asynchronous USB.
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post #466 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

Assuming we have 4k capable TV and a 4K capable Bluray player, would a current BD disk look really better ? I can't find any intel on upcoming 4K media.

While I don't have any test equipment yet smile.gif I would imagine a BR upscaled on a 4K TV would look better than on a comprable 1080p TV. I have DVDs that the Oppo does a great job of upscaling. THey dont look as good as native BR 1080p but DVDs can look much better than they do without the upscaling. A friend has the same TV as me but his DVDs look like crap in comparison on his newer Sony BR player.
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post #467 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by boe View Post

While I don't have any test equipment yet smile.gif I would imagine a BR upscaled on a 4K TV would look better than on a comprable 1080p TV. I have DVDs that the Oppo does a great job of upscaling. THey dont look as good as native BR 1080p but DVDs can look much better than they do without the upscaling. A friend has the same TV as me but his DVDs look like crap in comparison on his newer Sony BR player.

If the 1080p to 4K upscaling does what the 480i to 1080P does, it can be fantastic. I wonder if any betatester already has a 4K TV or projector...

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post #468 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Basically the player works as an external soundcard. The computer will be processing the file then sends it to the BDP-105 to be processed into analog (or remain digital if you want to use HDMI, digital coaxial or optical output). So you can get gapless playback since the PC, not the player, is doing the audio decoding and processing.
Asynchronous USB is better as it does not suffer from jitter (something HDMI is notorious for) and the clocking is controlled by the DAC, rather than the computer's internal clock. Overall accuracy should be higher.

Thanks for the info. If computer can be connected to player via USB or HDMI and flac can be played back gapless, then that is a nice option and upgrade. I want to confirm that's the case.
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post #469 of 1147 Old 09-20-2012, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

It is not MediaTek's priority since only OPPO really wants it. Their other vendors (Sony, Panasonic, etc) don't really care about user generated media. If the people who are buying millions of units don't want it, why put in the resources?

What millions of users really want does not mesh well with what Oppo users really want. Hopefully they can work that out. It's not all user generated by the way. Many bands and companies like HDtracks etc are selling FLAC files. For audio, this is a high end player for people who enjoy music. Naturally, they need to be able to play back the most popular digital Lossless storage format (FLAC) Gaplessly. "Lossless" and "Oppo" should go hand n hand.

If the new units can be connected to a computer via USB and HDMI, and Flac played back gapless, then that is a nice upgrade. If they will still be using the high-end DAC.

But, external hardrive playback needs to be gapless too or in the works I would hope. Again if the the computer playback option can handle this right now then that helps a lot.

Here's one band that sells Flac files in 16/44 and high rez.

http://www.livephish.com/catalog.aspx

click on "available"
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post #470 of 1147 Old 09-21-2012, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm pretty excited about the 103. The oppo 103 is leading to me finally replacing my old TV in my bedroom and upgrading my AVP for the bedroom. All I need now is to find a good upgrade shop in Los Angeles for my AVP. Strangely, I would have thought a lot of AVP owners would be in Los Angeles but it doesn't seem like any have had theirs upgraded.
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post #471 of 1147 Old 09-22-2012, 03:50 PM
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The ideal companion to the 103, Saw it today at a Sony store, 4K is unbelievable! 25 large can buy it. Sony 84".

Soory for the Iphone 3G picture, my new Iphone 5 is backordered.

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post #472 of 1147 Old 09-22-2012, 06:20 PM
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^ Did you figure out what sort of Source they were using to drive that in the store?

I believe Sony has been using some method of feeding real 4K demo content into it for shows, which would not be available to a home user (neither the content nor the hardware). Or were they demoing it with either a 1080p feed or upscaled 1080p content?
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post #473 of 1147 Old 09-22-2012, 07:31 PM
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^ Did you figure out what sort of Source they were using to drive that in the store?
I believe Sony has been using some method of feeding real 4K demo content into it for shows, which would not be available to a home user (neither the content nor the hardware). Or were they demoing it with either a 1080p feed or upscaled 1080p content?
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I asked them to show me everything:

The source was a dedicated desktop PC, linked to a HDMI input on the TV. The material was a real 4K demo video made by Sony . If you are old enough like me, you remenber the first HDTV demos using a dedicated Sencore system. The setup was very similar.

I asked them if I could see a Bluray disk fed to the TV and they said Sony doesn't allow any other source because the firmware is not on its final version.

The pictures I took with an Iphone 3G don't reflect the quality of the real image on the TV. One interesting thing was the set was placed on a corridor, leaving no more than 6 feet distance from the TV, certainly too close for normal viewing ,but I couldn't see a single glitch on the picture

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post #474 of 1147 Old 09-22-2012, 07:44 PM
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^ Thanks for that. Yes the Sencore stuff was just what I was thinking about. Ah we'll, can't blame them for wanting to show it in the best light, even if that doesn't reflect real world usage.
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post #475 of 1147 Old 09-22-2012, 09:55 PM
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If you are old enough like me, you remenber the first HDTV demos using a dedicated Sencore system.
I'm picturing those of us who are old enough to remember that having to use walkers because it was so long ago biggrin.gif.
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post #476 of 1147 Old 09-22-2012, 10:44 PM
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What's that you say, sonny? Kids these days! And just try getting one of them to help figure out how to get a cracking good player piano roll fed into this so-called Universal player! Hmmph!
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post #477 of 1147 Old 09-23-2012, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

I asked them to show me everything:
The source was a dedicated desktop PC, linked to a HDMI input on the TV. The material was a real 4K demo video made by Sony . If you are old enough like me, you remenber the first HDTV demos using a dedicated Sencore system. The setup was very similar.

It is funny but a lot of people who can't fathom the chicken and the egg post on engadget "who needs a 4K TV when there is no media". So who is going to create media if there is nothing to play it back on. I'm going to CES this year to check out the production 4K TVs. It won't be long before there is media and players to upscale.
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post #478 of 1147 Old 09-23-2012, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by boe View Post

It is funny but a lot of people who can't fathom the chicken and the egg post on engadget "who needs a 4K TV when there is no media". So who is going to create media if there is nothing to play it back on. I'm going to CES this year to check out the production 4K TVs. It won't be long before there is media and players to upscale.

At least two players already do 4K upscaling: The Sony S790 (already shipping) and the Oppo 103 (shipping soon). I bet 2013 will be the "4K year" with a lot of hardware being announced and VERY few media to play. It's gonna be interesting if we start seeing 4K streaming , with the very low average internet speed we have here. I can see 4K media and streaming coming first in countries like Japan and Korea, wouldn't be surprised to see even TV broadcasting in 4K in Japan next year. Another interesting event on the 4K realm are some new prosumer camcorders already in the market capable to shoot the higher resolution.

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post #479 of 1147 Old 09-23-2012, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by boe View Post

It is funny but a lot of people who can't fathom the chicken and the egg post on engadget "who needs a 4K TV when there is no media". So who is going to create media if there is nothing to play it back on. I'm going to CES this year to check out the production 4K TVs. It won't be long before there is media and players to upscale.

There are actually a couple of 4K documentaries and other material available, but they are expensive. The reason is that you have to purchase a flash/hard drive that has the files stored on them, as there is no physical disc media which can store the amount of data, or you will need to spend a lot of bandwidth downloading it.

One example is TimeScapes. It will set you back $99.00 for the 8-bit 4K version, or $299 for the 12-bit, 4K version which comes on a harddrive.
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post #480 of 1147 Old 09-23-2012, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post


One example is TimeScapes. It will set you back $99.00 for the 8-bit 4K version, or $299 for the 12-bit, 4K version which comes on a harddrive.

Wow! Even the Vimeo video is fantastic .

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