What features would you like in your next Oppo BR - e.g. Oppo BDP-113 and BDP-115. - Page 46 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1351 of 1465 Old 03-26-2015, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by swanlee View Post
Well it sucks cause I'm either going to have to wait well over a year after players hit the market for a 4K blu ray player or spend the money on a stop gap 4K player while my Oppo 95 is still plugged in for Audio DLNA duty.

Back in 2009 Oppo was not nearly as established or had as many resources as they are now so their was a reason they were late to the Blu-Ray game. But being a year late now seems like an over sight.

Just a bummer all around
Get over it!!! There are many things in life considerably more important than having the latest/greatest A/V gear.
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post #1352 of 1465 Old 03-26-2015, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by swanlee View Post
Well it sucks cause I'm either going to have to wait well over a year after players hit the market for a 4K blu ray player or spend the money on a stop gap 4K player while my Oppo 95 is still plugged in for Audio DLNA duty.

Back in 2009 Oppo was not nearly as established or had as many resources as they are now so their was a reason they were late to the Blu-Ray game. But being a year late now seems like an over sight.

Just a bummer all around
I think the issue is Oppo will either have to put in a very flexible streaming media player in their next disc player or they'll have to consider offering 2 different units - one more focused on being a great disc player and another which has no disc capabilities but is a great streaming device.
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post #1353 of 1465 Old 03-26-2015, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post
Get over it!!! There are many things in life considerably more important than having the latest/greatest A/V gear.

Considering this is an AVS forum this is the place to dicuss these things, gees you need to chill. It is certainly a vlid opinion that it is a real bummer that Oppo is not going to release a 4K blu ray player for potentially another 2 years.
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post #1354 of 1465 Old 03-26-2015, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by swanlee View Post
Considering this is an AVS forum this is the place to dicuss these things, gees you need to chill. It is certainly a vlid opinion that it is a real bummer that Oppo is not going to release a 4K blu ray player for potentially another 2 years.
You have that backwards, I am not the one getting upset cause I can not upgrade today. That would be you.
I take the attitude, gear shows up, when it shows up.

Its the companies who rush things out the door to grab the first buck to be made that usually have the worst performance.
As opposed to a company like Oppo who provide good quality cause they do not rush the progress of a new piece of gear.

I am patiently waiting for true 4K TVs to show up where I live...if they do, great, if not, I won't lose any sleep over it.
That is about as chill as one can get.

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post #1355 of 1465 Old 03-28-2015, 08:25 AM
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Get over it!!! There are many things in life considerably more important than having the latest/greatest A/V gear.
Please save your negative comments for the hardware not the person.
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post #1356 of 1465 Old 04-16-2015, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by swanlee View Post
Considering this is an AVS forum this is the place to dicuss these things, gees you need to chill. It is certainly a vlid opinion that it is a real bummer that Oppo is not going to release a 4K blu ray player for potentially another 2 years.
I suppose the question is, what will they release in the mean time - if anything?
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post #1357 of 1465 Old 04-16-2015, 10:32 AM
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I suppose the question is, what will they release in the mean time - if anything?
They've been doing personal audio products that are getting good reviews. The public's interest in Blu-ray players is kind of dead until 4K appears. I doubt if you'll see a new model before then.

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post #1358 of 1465 Old 04-16-2015, 10:36 AM
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Hopefully a 105 type player with a more dedicated music file player with a good interface. Also include MQA.
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post #1359 of 1465 Old 04-19-2015, 04:27 AM
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^^^ +1 for MQA support!

In general, I hope the stick to the core of what they are good at, which is a great source device for Video and Audio.

If they want to continue to have two models, that's fine and the 105 replacement can have the basics for a simple single-box system (assuming active speakers). But all this talk of adding DRC and more and more pre-pro features is not a great direction as it adds serious complexity and dilutes the focus of the product.

For the 103-class product, I just want a good quality media streamer, excellent physical media support (all the current ones + UHD) and HDMI 2.0 outputs (2 w/split A/V). That's it, no boatload of other, unrelated stuff.

Great products have a focus and whatever features they do have are well implemented and eay to use.
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post #1360 of 1465 Old 04-26-2015, 04:26 AM
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Tide is moving...

It is interesting that Oppo haven't yet done a "media player" similar to the Dune 3D or WDTV Player.

Why?

Because that ultimately will be where the future is and I'm seeing people start to make the shift from BluRay player to media player.

Is that a market with shallow return at present? I don't know.

Then again, with apps like Plex running on my TV, maybe I don't need a dedicated media player.

Thus I wonder if the 93/95 & 103/105 series players will thus be Oppo's peak of market penetration?

Sure, the next TV I buy will likely be 4k whether I like it or not (just like the current one is 3D) but I can't sit close enough (or have a screen big enough) for 4k to make a difference. And how many other people are like that? Thus 1080p likely represents "good enough" for a large number of people given practical considerations.

It may be that Oppo chooses not to do a media player for fear of eating their own lunch (that of the Oppo BluRay players) but if they don't eat it, someone else will.

Now where did that XBMC How-To go for the Intel NUC...
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post #1361 of 1465 Old 04-26-2015, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rakosnicek View Post
It is interesting that Oppo haven't yet done a "media player" similar to the Dune 3D or WDTV Player.

Why?
A couple of years ago I suggested that it might be a good idea for Oppo to offer 'disc based' and 'non disc-based' players. I seem to remember the idea didn't go down very well with some Oppo owners

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post #1362 of 1465 Old 04-26-2015, 05:26 AM
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Fact of the matter is that for the foreseeable future a physical format delivery system will only be capable of providing enough bandwidth for UHD@60fps + HDR and Dolby Atmos/ MA at bit rates high enough to give the wow factor.
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post #1363 of 1465 Old 04-26-2015, 05:28 AM
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I don't have any inside info, but I suspect the studio powers hate media players, figuring them to be appliances for pirates. They can exert great pressure on a Blu-ray player manufacturer like OPPO. As in: "Try to make one of those and we'll pull your Blu-ray licenses. Your partners who make components will not be dealing with us any more, either.

Do any of the big boys produce both BR players and media devices? If a major vendor went first that would make it easier for the little guy.

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post #1364 of 1465 Old 04-26-2015, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMacFunkin View Post
Fact of the matter is that for the foreseeable future a physical format delivery system will only be capable of providing enough bandwidth for UHD@60fps + HDR and Dolby Atmos/ MA at bit rates high enough to give the wow factor.
Well lets say it keeps Sony happy

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Do any of the big boys produce both BR players and media devices? If a major vendor went first that would make it easier for the little guy.
Just 'audio' streamers. That's as far as they're willing to go...

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post #1365 of 1465 Old 04-26-2015, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by rakosnicek View Post
...

Now where did that XBMC How-To go for the Intel NUC...
Try the Chromebox with Kodi in the following thread: Kodi (XBMC) via Chromebox

Might be heading in this direction once my WDTV Live SMP dies on me one of these days or I start to loose patience with the slow interface and lack of support.
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post #1366 of 1465 Old 04-26-2015, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I noticed youtube doesn't play in 5.1 even though the titles say 5.1. I'd like that functionality in the next Oppo.
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post #1367 of 1465 Old 04-26-2015, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post
A couple of years ago I suggested that it might be a good idea for Oppo to offer 'disc based' and 'non disc-based' players. I seem to remember the idea didn't go down very well with some Oppo owners
I know what you mean - it is that way in a lot of forums - if you suggest something different than what they bought they act as if you insulted their decision. Go to a car forum and suggest something like modifying the front grill or add a hybrid OPTION and they can't abide there even being options their choice was the best choice.


I would love for Oppo to make an high end media player. There are tons of mediocre ones but I'd love to see a true high end one. If they made it android based they would have a ton of flexibility for future apps. Many smart TVs seem short on processing power, cache and future upgradability. I think Oppo could make something that truly excels at a reasonable price.
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post #1368 of 1465 Old 04-27-2015, 06:37 AM
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I know what you mean - it is that way in a lot of forums - if you suggest something different than what they bought they act as if you insulted their decision. Go to a car forum and suggest something like modifying the front grill or add a hybrid OPTION and they can't abide there even being options their choice was the best choice.


I would love for Oppo to make an high end media player. There are tons of mediocre ones but I'd love to see a true high end one. If they made it android based they would have a ton of flexibility for future apps. Many smart TVs seem short on processing power, cache and future upgradability. I think Oppo could make something that truly excels at a reasonable price.
I think it would be great too, but in my opinion it would be impossible.

Not technically, since Oppo has more than the skill to make something excellent as a streamer.

The problem would come from the bluray licensing group. I think that the studios would pull the bluray licensing from Oppo. So the choice before Oppo would be to make either a streamer OR a disk player. Not both.

And it would be completely political.

It may come to the point that Oppo decides to do the transition if bluray becomes less of a profit source than streaming. But until then, I'd be surprised to see one. They'd have to give up too much right now.
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post #1369 of 1465 Old 04-27-2015, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
I don't have any inside info, but I suspect the studio powers hate media players, figuring them to be appliances for pirates. They can exert great pressure on a Blu-ray player manufacturer like OPPO. As in: "Try to make one of those and we'll pull your Blu-ray licenses. Your partners who make components will not be dealing with us any more, either.
I am afraid and suspect that you are right. :-(

Quote:
Do any of the big boys produce both BR players and media devices? If a major vendor went first that would make it easier for the little guy.
Not that I'm aware of. However as soon as they do that, why would you then buy their BluRay player?

As above, I don't know if making one of them that worked would put their licensing at risk for physical media players or they're just afraid of eating their own lunch. Or both.

Eventually the music studios (RIAA?) saw the light and allowed MP3s to be bought online. Did the world end? No. The movie industry (MPAA) appears to be refusing to see the light...
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post #1370 of 1465 Old 04-27-2015, 07:17 AM
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Fact of the matter is that for the foreseeable future a physical format delivery system will only be capable of providing enough bandwidth for UHD@60fps + HDR and Dolby Atmos/ MA at bit rates high enough to give the wow factor.
The more extreme and high end you go, the smaller the market is.

The current market share that the Oppo is aimed at is likely the top 10% of wage earners (or there abouts.) Maybe smaller. Quite likely Oppo owners are not 1%'ers either because for them the Oppo is likely too cheap (and thus not exclusive enough.)

The market for Dolby Atmos is likely half that again, if not smaller.

Sure, there are plenty of people online who talk about "home cinema" and whatever but those people are not the majority of people out there - likely not even the majority of Oppo owners.

When you get into that sort of wage bracket, you're now selling to mostly rather smart people. People that are capable of going "hmmm, Dolby Atmos requires X and my home is Y, nah, not for me."

So yes, maybe you're going to need physical media to do UHD@cinema rates with Dolby Atmos (and physical media may also be something like an SDXC card!) but there will always be expensive options available for people desiring such.
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post #1371 of 1465 Old 04-27-2015, 08:48 AM
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The more extreme and high end you go, the smaller the market is.

The current market share that the Oppo is aimed at is likely the top 10% of wage earners (or there abouts.) Maybe smaller. Quite likely Oppo owners are not 1%'ers either because for them the Oppo is likely too cheap (and thus not exclusive enough.)

The market for Dolby Atmos is likely half that again, if not smaller.

Sure, there are plenty of people online who talk about "home cinema" and whatever but those people are not the majority of people out there - likely not even the majority of Oppo owners.

When you get into that sort of wage bracket, you're now selling to mostly rather smart people. People that are capable of going "hmmm, Dolby Atmos requires X and my home is Y, nah, not for me."

So yes, maybe you're going to need physical media to do UHD@cinema rates with Dolby Atmos (and physical media may also be something like an SDXC card!) but there will always be expensive options available for people desiring such.
The majority of people won't even be aware of 4k, never mind be able to see a difference over 1080 or even care, I still know people that sit and watch SD tv broadcasts night after night without a care in the world, and most people I know with media players watch small avi files, they havnt progressed to Mkv, me personally since acquiring a 4k tv have actually gone from almost exclusive watching of 1080p Mkv rips back to full bit rate untouched blu ray, the difference is noticeable.
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post #1372 of 1465 Old 04-28-2015, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by DaMacFunkin View Post
The majority of people won't even be aware of 4k, never mind be able to see a difference over 1080 or even care, I still know people that sit and watch SD tv broadcasts night after night without a care in the world, and most people I know with media players watch small avi files, they havnt progressed to Mkv, me personally since acquiring a 4k tv have actually gone from almost exclusive watching of 1080p Mkv rips back to full bit rate untouched blu ray, the difference is noticeable.
Lucky for you. I suppose you prefer 24bit/192kHz audio too?
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post #1373 of 1465 Old 05-07-2015, 04:20 PM
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Should Oppo follow Chord's design?

Rather than continue to produce BluRay players that have a DAC inside of them, should Oppo produce discrete components instead?

For a large number of 83/93/103 owners I am pretty sure that the analogue paths never get used - the device is plugging in with a HDMI cable to a receiver of some description and that takes care of the audio.

For 83SE/95/105 owners, the inbuilt DACs are often preferred to those external and in the 105, Oppo have increased ways in which those DACs can be used by external sources.

So rather than have two lines of player, why not have a single player that has a Oppo Media Link cable to an offboard Oppo DAC that does DTS, or Dolby or whatever. This would also allow for more diverse options to go at the end of the Oppo Media Link cable (such as a DAC unit that is engineered specifically towards headphones.)

Ideally that would allow for the player unit to be cheaper (no DAC at all) but that may not be a significant cost (I don't know.)

Ideally it would also increase upgrade options: just buy a new transport and keep the same DAC (providing backward compatibility is there) or to upgrade the DAC (to get Atmos decoding) whilst keeping the same transport.

Thoughts?
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post #1374 of 1465 Old 05-07-2015, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakosnicek View Post
Rather than continue to produce BluRay players that have a DAC inside of them, should Oppo produce discrete components instead?

For a large number of 83/93/103 owners I am pretty sure that the analogue paths never get used - the device is plugging in with a HDMI cable to a receiver of some description and that takes care of the audio.

For 83SE/95/105 owners, the inbuilt DACs are often preferred to those external and in the 105, Oppo have increased ways in which those DACs can be used by external sources.

So rather than have two lines of player, why not have a single player that has a Oppo Media Link cable to an offboard Oppo DAC that does DTS, or Dolby or whatever. This would also allow for more diverse options to go at the end of the Oppo Media Link cable (such as a DAC unit that is engineered specifically towards headphones.)

Ideally that would allow for the player unit to be cheaper (no DAC at all) but that may not be a significant cost (I don't know.)

Ideally it would also increase upgrade options: just buy a new transport and keep the same DAC (providing backward compatibility is there) or to upgrade the DAC (to get Atmos decoding) whilst keeping the same transport.

Thoughts?
I have suggested that a few times.

What features would you like in your next Oppo BR - e.g. Oppo BDP-113 and BDP-115.
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post #1375 of 1465 Old 05-07-2015, 04:38 PM
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Here is what I want in addition to the fabulous DACS and what the 105D has:

The next OPPO BDP115D should have

- 3840x2160 pixels
- Higher frames rates (up to 60 Frames/Second on 4K content)
- DCI (Digital Cinema Initiative)'s p3 color space
- BT2020 color standard
- 10-bit samples
- Dolby HDR (High Dynamic Range)
- HDCP 2.2
- HDMi 2.0a
- 13 Channels
- Ability to decode DTS:X ATMOS AURO 3D
- Dolby AC4
- DIRAC or Room Perfect
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post #1376 of 1465 Old 05-07-2015, 04:39 PM
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But we might have a problem:

Blu-ray under siege

The larger question, however, is whether a new Blu-ray standard can succeed at all. Digital Digest has discussed this topic extensively, with year-on-year comparisons of Blu-ray sales, market revenue, and total market share. The current results don’t paint a pretty picture for the long-term future of the disc standard.

Blu-ray’s disc scare (the number of Blu-ray discs sold vs. DVDs sold) has flatlined, with minimal growth throughout 2014. The current record was set by the release of The Avengers in 2012, with 44.10% of total sales flowing to Blu-ray — a mark that’s never been matched, though Frozen came close this year.
Blu-ray sales, 2013 vs. 2014



This graph is harder to read, since the dips and troughs don’t match each other exactly, but absent the Frozen-driven bump at the beginning of the year, Blu-ray sales lagged in 2014 compared to 2013. 2014 was the first year that Blu-ray sales declined since the standard debuted in 2006, from 2.306B to 2.12B.


Cinephiles and physical media collectors will likely argue that these trends don’t matter, given that billions in sales is still billions in sales. While it’s true that there will always be a certain segment of the market that will pay top dollar for high quality (and that disc-based media is far higher quality than current streams), the modern disc-based media market depends on critical economies of scale.


For an example of what happens when a standard doesn’t achieve broad market penetration, look to LaserDisc. While it had many advantages over VHS players of the day, including initially lower production costs, the low number of players sold and small market share meant that the film industry didn’t invest much money in bringing titles to the format. The fewer titles are available in a format, the less consumers are going to be interested in investing in it.


When you combine this with the fact that 4K content requires larger screens and different televisions to really shine compared to 1080p, the already dubious upgrade argument gets worse. Consumers are going to upgrade to 4K televisions, but no one is projecting a repeat of the 720p and 1080p craze when the market collectively leapt from decades of broadcast television all the way to HD content. This suggests that the shift to 4K Blu-ray will occur much more gradually, which gives streaming services more time to establish themselves and a larger window to bring stream quality up to snuff.


Based on current market trends, it’s entirely possible that the 4K variant of Blu-ray will emerge as little more than a curiosity — interesting to a handful of people, but without the critical mass market support that would drive adoption across the entire segment.


I HOPE NOT
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post #1377 of 1465 Old 05-08-2015, 12:38 AM
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Here is what I want in addition to the fabulous DACS and what the 105D has:

The next OPPO BDP115D should have

- 3840x2160 pixels
- Higher frames rates (up to 60 Frames/Second on 4K content)
- DCI (Digital Cinema Initiative)'s p3 color space
- BT2020 color standard
- 10-bit samples
- Dolby HDR (High Dynamic Range)
- HDCP 2.2
- HDMi 2.0a
All of the above should go in a transport that just read disks and sends out audio as a bit stream or raw to an AVR or another Oppo unit that...

Quote:
- 13 Channels
- Ability to decode DTS:X ATMOS AURO 3D
- Dolby AC4
- DIRAC or Room Perfect
Has all of this in it.
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post #1378 of 1465 Old 05-08-2015, 01:43 AM
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But we might have a problem:
...

For an example of what happens when a standard doesn’t achieve broad market penetration, look to LaserDisc. While it had many advantages over VHS players of the day, including initially lower production costs, the low number of players sold and small market share meant that the film industry didn’t invest much money in bringing titles to the format. The fewer titles are available in a format, the less consumers are going to be interested in investing in it.


When you combine this with the fact that 4K content requires larger screens and different televisions to really shine compared to 1080p, the already dubious upgrade argument gets worse. Consumers are going to upgrade to 4K televisions, but no one is projecting a repeat of the 720p and 1080p craze when the market collectively leapt from decades of broadcast television all the way to HD content. This suggests that the shift to 4K Blu-ray will occur much more gradually, which gives streaming services more time to establish themselves and a larger window to bring stream quality up to snuff.


The difference is going to be that all of the 2016 model TVs, apart from the very low end/budget models are going to be 4K TVs whether you want 4K or not. New models next year from the $1k price point and upwards will all be 4K. This will mean that the number of 4K capable display devices will grow but what about content?

Without a doubt a lot of 1080p TV growth has been driven not just by BluRay but also by cable services, TV broadcasters, etc, all moving to that format. Plus there was the shutting down of analogue TV broadcasting. Lots of things pushing people to 1080p..

The drop in the sales of BluRay is interesting and may be a result of something else: adoption of on-demand streaming video services. It is entirely possible that we'll see 4K content available to be streamed before we can buy it on a physical disc.
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post #1379 of 1465 Old 05-08-2015, 05:16 AM
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The difference is going to be that all of the 2016 model TVs, apart from the very low end/budget models are going to be 4K TVs whether you want 4K or not. New models next year from the $1k price point and upwards will all be 4K. This will mean that the number of 4K capable display devices will grow but what about content?

Without a doubt a lot of 1080p TV growth has been driven not just by BluRay but also by cable services, TV broadcasters, etc, all moving to that format. Plus there was the shutting down of analogue TV broadcasting. Lots of things pushing people to 1080p..

The drop in the sales of BluRay is interesting and may be a result of something else: adoption of on-demand streaming video services. It is entirely possible that we'll see 4K content available to be streamed before we can buy it on a physical disc.
That's available right now - Netflix, Amazon...
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post #1380 of 1465 Old 05-08-2015, 11:15 AM
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......The drop in the sales of BluRay is interesting and may be a result of something else: adoption of on-demand streaming video services. It is entirely possible that we'll see 4K content available to be streamed before we can buy it on a physical disc.
Probably actually it's already happening too bad the audio is not there yet for streaming!
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