Official 2012 Sony BDP-S790 Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by WarrenD View Post

Once again. Thank you for the reply and sharing your thoughts. Much appreciated! I assume default is Direct or Auto mode?

I believe the default is Auto mode. If SBM was engaged by default, then it was tested with it on. I'll run another set with it off and see if that performs correctly. If it does, I hope when they release the firmware to fix RGB mode that it turns SBM to off by default so people get the best image when buying the player.

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post #1082 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

I believe the default is Auto mode. If SBM was engaged by default, then it was tested with it on. I'll run another set with it off and see if that performs correctly. If it does, I hope when they release the firmware to fix RGB mode that it turns SBM to off by default so people get the best image when buying the player.

Hello and thank you! All these features are confusing to an amateur like myself and will now turn off SBM in the menu. As for the YCBR/RGB that is set to auto. Is that the best setting? Thank you in advance.
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post #1083 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by WarrenD View Post

Hello and thank you! All these features are confusing to an amateur like myself and will now turn off SBM in the menu. As for the YCBR/RGB that is set to auto. Is that the best setting? Thank you in advance.

No, Auto will pick based on the EDID of your display or receiver. Since RGB is broken, you should manually select one of the YCbCr modes. Otherwise you have no way of knowing which one Auto is selecting.

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post #1084 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

That's been off since the moment I turned it on, but in this case it was the BenQ W7000 and the JVC X70 being used. I'm not a huge fan of using the X70 for review since you can only temporarily disable eShift, and if you have eShift on it messes up fine detail and resolution patterns and can make you think the player is causing it. It'll also hit a Samsung plasma for some testing as well.
Each display is calibrated exactly the same here: BTB is hidden below 16, WTW is not hidden at all, projectors are targeted for 2.35 gamma, and the CMS is dialed in for Rec 709 color points to be as accurate as possible. Every single extra feature (including a dynamic iris, any interpolation, etc...) is disabled so it's just the component to the display, as accurately as possible. Anyone else with an ISF or THX calibrated set would see almost the exact same thing on their setup as I do.
EDIT: I've tested nothing on DVD upconversion so far, all my comments are strictly Blu-ray related. DVD scaling is far different and requires more personal taste over what you prefer: A sharper image with more artifacts, or a softer image with fewer artifacts typically. I'll test it eventually, but it's coming after other things.

I currently have my S790 set to Standard under the Custom setting. Can you please test this mode and let us know if the output is correct or similiar to Direct or Auto?

Thx!
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post #1085 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

I believe the default is Auto mode. If SBM was engaged by default, then it was tested with it on. I'll run another set with it off and see if that performs correctly. If it does, I hope when they release the firmware to fix RGB mode that it turns SBM to off by default so people get the best image when buying the player.

SBM is a separate item under "Screen Settings" and is enabled by default. You have to turn it off.
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post #1086 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by JMCecil View Post

The specs say that the 790 supports WMA. However, that doesn't necessarily mean lossless WMA. Can anyone confirm that it supports lossless WMA?
If so, Sony seems to be the only players that directly support WMA lossless over DLNA. Is that the case? I know I could set up a transcoding server, but I just want to directly stream from my DLNA storage device.

I tested both 24-bit and 16-bit WMA loss-less versions from Linns site (http://www.linnrecords.com/linn-downloads-testfiles.aspx)

and neither file played either via DLNA or directly from a USB stick.

Hope this helps.
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post #1087 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Cortiz View Post

I currently have my S790 set to Standard under the Custom setting. Can you please test this mode and let us know if the output is correct or similiar to Direct or Auto?
Thx!

I'll get there, it'll just take time to run every permutation.

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post #1088 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

I tested both 24-bit and 16-bit WMA loss-less versions from Linns site (http://www.linnrecords.com/linn-downloads-testfiles.aspx)
and neither file played either via DLNA or directly from a USB stick.
Hope this helps.
Thank you very much for the check. It helps, but in exactly the wrong way biggrin.gif
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post #1089 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

No, Auto will pick based on the EDID of your display or receiver. Since RGB is broken, you should manually select one of the YCbCr modes. Otherwise you have no way of knowing which one Auto is selecting.

Thanks for telling me that. As for YCbCr, should it be 4:2:2 or 4:4:4?
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post #1090 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by WarrenD View Post

Thanks for telling me that. As for YCbCr, should it be 4:2:2 or 4:4:4?

If you have Spears and Munsil, you can read this article to determine that:

http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/articles/choosingacolorspace.html

Otherwise, either one, even if you get a slight side effect from it, that side effect is much smaller than the RGB error.

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post #1091 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

If you have Spears and Munsil, you can read this article to determine that:
http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/articles/choosingacolorspace.html
Otherwise, either one, even if you get a slight side effect from it, that side effect is much smaller than the RGB error.

Thank you. This helps a lot. I set it to 4:2:2. What amazes me is how in 2012 there can be an RGB error?. The only thing I can think of is they are going by what is perceived as appealing to the eye.
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post #1092 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 12:23 PM
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Another review of the S790.

http://www.whathifi.com/review/bdp-s790
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post #1093 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 12:39 PM
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One thing I noticed is with the Sony BDP S790 is that if a source like Youtube is poor, then it cannot do much to resolve that. I mean, if someone uploads from a phone or VHS, it can only do so much with a severly poor quality image.

As for streaming HD, it excels at that. It resolves everything so finely. Very fast with Lovefilm too. A movie loads way quicker than my other Sony player BDP S570.



With a well mastered DVD, it will make it look almost like a Blu Ray from a distance of 6 feet. Yes, I know a Blu Ray has 5 times the resolution, but with some DVD'S, it creates the perception if that makes sense?

Blu Ray image is amazingly spectacular. It squeezes out every last detail.
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post #1094 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 12:42 PM
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One small thing. Even with the picture enhancements turned off, this player already has some incredible processing and I noticed that with my Bram Stoker's Dracula Superbit DVD, the texturing on the clothes was more prominent than my other Sony. I am glad that at least now this DVD gets a new lease of life, because the Blu Ray version is below par. Everyone has a favourite film and that just happens to be mine.

As for me, the more enhancements there are, the more temptation to mess around. My mentality can be : " I paid for it, so should use it!"smile.gif
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post #1095 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenD View Post

Thank you. This helps a lot. I set it to 4:2:2. What amazes me is how in 2012 there can be an RGB error?. The only thing I can think of is they are going by what is perceived as appealing to the eye.

I think the error here is just a code bug, not an intentional error. Sometimes this isn't the fault of the vendor, as they mostly use generic HDMI transmitter chips and if those have a bug, they can't easily fix it, or don't realize it. Lots of people mess it up, because they either rely on the transmitter chip to do it, or they aren't careful with it. The main problem is it's virtually impossible for end users to test, or know that something is wrong, and to demand it gets fixed.

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post #1096 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

I think the error here is just a code bug, not an intentional error. Sometimes this isn't the fault of the vendor, as they mostly use generic HDMI transmitter chips and if those have a bug, they can't easily fix it, or don't realize it. Lots of people mess it up, because they either rely on the transmitter chip to do it, or they aren't careful with it. The main problem is it's virtually impossible for end users to test, or know that something is wrong, and to demand it gets fixed.

That is good to learn in the sense of knowing this can be a factor. But from what I understand of your earlier writings on this thread, is that as long as the picture is set to auto or direct, things are fine.

Even with that in mind, I think the player is a fine piece of machinery and the price is welcome in an age of financial instability. I mean, if money was no object, I would spend $5,000 on a player.

Once again, much appreciate the explaination.
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post #1097 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenD View Post

That is good to learn in the sense of knowing this can be a factor. But from what I understand of your earlier writings on this thread, is that as long as the picture is set to auto or direct, things are fine.
Even with that in mind, I think the player is a fine piece of machinery and the price is welcome in an age of financial instability. I mean, if money was no object, I would spend $5,000 on a player.
Once again, much appreciate the explaination.

Auto and Direct apply to the picture mode, not to the HDMI colorspace output. The picture mode should be Auto/Direct (I'd do Direct, as I currently don't know what Auto does) and the HDMI Colorspace should be YCbCr 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. Those are two different settings, but both need to be correct.

There's no reason to spend $5,000. The worst player I tested was $8,000, and one of the best was $120, so there is very little correlation between price and performance much of the time.

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post #1098 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

Auto and Direct apply to the picture mode, not to the HDMI colorspace output. The picture mode should be Auto/Direct (I'd do Direct, as I currently don't know what Auto does) and the HDMI Colorspace should be YCbCr 4:2:2 or 4:4:4. Those are two different settings, but both need to be correct.
There's no reason to spend $5,000. The worst player I tested was $8,000, and one of the best was $120, so there is very little correlation between price and performance much of the time.


Ok, I shall set the picture mode to direct! I guess your tests prove that just because something is super expensive, it does not mean it is better. Thanks for the investigation into the player performance and how to get the most accuracy out of it.

By the way, is there any time or circumstance, where you would apply the enhancements to a picture?
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post #1099 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenD View Post

I mean, if money was no object, I would spend $5,000 on a player.
Something between $120 and $499 should be all you need unless you're into high end analog audio. wink.gif
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post #1100 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenD View Post

Ok, I shall set the picture mode to direct! I guess your tests prove that just because something is super expensive, it does not mean it is better. Thanks for the investigation into the player performance and how to get the most accuracy out of it.
By the way, is there any time or circumstance, where you would apply the enhancements to a picture?

You could play around with them with DVDs, or crappy transfers with tons of macroblocking and noise, but I'm just not a big fan of them. For everything they add, they take something else away, it's the nature of the game. If you like them, then by all means use them, it's your player. I can just test with them and see what they do and pass that info along.

I actually couldn't run the full set of tests on the McIntosh, since it won't play a BD-R disc, but it failed some other basic test really badly, which nothing had ever done before. I had no issue with McIntosh making an $8,000 player, my issue was with them making an $8,000 one that fails basic video tests.

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post #1101 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Besides streaming, no comparison

I agree, there is no comparison. In fact, a comparison isn't possible at all, since you have no data to back up your claims of alleged superior audio and video quality. smile.gif
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post #1102 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HDPERSON View Post

Another review of the S790.
http://www.whathifi.com/review/bdp-s790

Here are the comments on video quality:

Now we’ve thoroughly exhausted the feature count, how does the Sony stack up in the picture and sound stakes?

Pretty spectacularly is the answer: images are as vibrant as we’ve seen at this pricepoint, with whites brilliant and packing a real punch, while blacks are luscious and deep while still allowing for plenty of visible detail. Spin Mission: Impossible, Ghost Protocol and during the opening shots the cityscape of Budapest is sharply defined, the tricky panning shots displayed with the tightest of grip.


The review clearly implies that better blu ray playback is possible at a higher price point, but there is no data of any kind which could corroborate that claim, either in the form of objective tests or even screen caps from a competing player.
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post #1103 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenD View Post

One thing I noticed is with the Sony BDP S790 is that if a source like Youtube is poor, then it cannot do much to resolve that. I mean, if someone uploads from a phone or VHS, it can only do so much with a severly poor quality image.
As for streaming HD, it excels at that. It resolves everything so finely. Very fast with Lovefilm too. A movie loads way quicker than my other Sony player BDP S570.
With a well mastered DVD, it will make it look almost like a Blu Ray from a distance of 6 feet. Yes, I know a Blu Ray has 5 times the resolution, but with some DVD'S, it creates the perception if that makes sense?
Blu Ray image is amazingly spectacular. It squeezes out every last detail.

No offense, but I find this claim difficult to believe. I own numerous movies on both dvd and blu ray. It would be extremely difficult to mistake the dvd version for the blu ray version at a distance of 6 feet. I have a 40" tv, and even at 11 feet, the difference between dvd and blu ray is very obvious.
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post #1104 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by johncourt View Post

I agree, there is no comparison. In fact, a comparison isn't possible at all, since you have no data to back up your claims of alleged superior audio and video quality. smile.gif

Ok I give!eek.gif
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post #1105 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399154/darbee-vision-darblet
My point is many are buying product that has special enhancements. Many are enjoying them. I get many emails and PMs everyday. If you prefer to keep the image as plain as possible without enhancement whatsoever the why are you reading this thread.
Read about the Darblet since you don't know about it yet. This product has sold out of its first three shipments. Just ask avs sales how many they have sold. Don't tell me (or us) people aren't in favor of enhancement. wink.gif

That was not your claim earlier. You claimed that the majority were purchasing 3 specific pieces of equipment: the 790, a projector and this darblet. That is obviously not the case. Now you say it is many people who post on avsforum who are buying the darblet in particular. Those are two VERY different statements. It simply reveals that you don't really care to make accurate statements of any kind.
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post #1106 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Your image must be very boring then. biggrin.gif my gear has a reference point which has been calibrated by an OTC 1000. I choose to further "play" with it using newer technology or enhancements. There are many happy people who are doing the same. Just because "smack rabbit" did some tests and claims my image must be waaaaaaay off means it is? :rollseyes: let's be honest here. How long did it take him to even get the player? What display is he using? Wouldnt one think that results will vary depending on your display? I never said my settings were the bible. I simply said they can be used as a starting point. I had mine day one so I could "Review" it for the general public or whoever wanted to read about it. This is a hobby to me nothing more. Feel free not to read my Reviews anymore.
For a player a few seem to be against they sure spend a lot of time here. wink.gif
Oh and "I'm no videophile but I know what looks good to me."

It doesn't make any difference how long it takes for a person to get a player. The player performs the same way regardless.

You claimed that the 790 had a better picture than other players, without any tangible evidence. Smackrabbit's testing shows that using your settings leads to a loss of detail. That is not a "better picture." That is a picture with less detail.

I haven't read any of your "reviews," but you make strong assertions about picture quality in this thread without any evidence.

When someone presents objective test data, you slander them by stating that they are out to destroy you. Again, this is a claim without any basis in reality.
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post #1107 of 3520 Old 06-07-2012, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Wow. Don't you think there is a chance if I had one of your displays my settings might be a little different? Just throwing that out there since you seem so hellbent on discrediting me... Let me guess. The Oppo is perfect with your display? I am planning to Review the new Panasonic so I guess I will see you over there too? biggrin.gif can't wait to see the chart on that one! smile.gif

Sarcasm and passive aggressive statements are no substitute for actual test data.
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post #1108 of 3520 Old 06-08-2012, 01:37 AM
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Haha you win. I won't return to this "thread" again. I will leave it to the experts like you. The 790 is the best bargain player out there right now. The best Streaming, 3D and Blu ray can be achieved by using the enhancements. That's why they're there for! And if for some reason one f the enhancements happens to clip green a bit....biggrin.gif

Seriously, which enhancement caused that? Why don't you post the settings you are using. I don't use rgb. Just curious. I still stand by my pristine fluid like image. I have had plenty of avs members here and not had a single complaint about the image.

As for johncourt, I was using those three items as examples of products with enhancements. If you spent 3 minutes you would have read about how many avs members are loving the Darblet. Four shipments now sold out! I guess it's because people don't like using image enhancements? biggrin.gif

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post #1109 of 3520 Old 06-08-2012, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Now here's a product I've been keeping an eye out for and was not aware its shipping already and not to get off topic here! (but somehow on topic:D) Joerod how does the Dablet compare to the enhancement feature of most bluray players or displays? or can they even come close?

http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homestead.com/Darblet-Darbee-Vision-Review.html?_=1337122950922

This is my last post in This thread. If anyone has any questions they can still PM or send me an email thru my web site. smile.gif

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post #1110 of 3520 Old 06-08-2012, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by johncourt View Post

No offense, but I find this claim difficult to believe. I own numerous movies on both dvd and blu ray. It would be extremely difficult to mistake the dvd version for the blu ray version at a distance of 6 feet. I have a 40" tv, and even at 11 feet, the difference between dvd and blu ray is very obvious.


I understand the reality, but do you own this player? With other players, it was way more obvious that it was a DVD. But the processing in this one by the way it resolves fine detail on a DVD can fool the eye to believing it is high definition. Of course, a poorly mastered film is another matter entirely and this player will highlight the transfer flaws of a bad DVD.

It is has the best DVD upscaling I have seen yet, and I thought my other Blu Ray player was pretty good. But the source has to be a well mastered DVD in the first place and then this player does it's thing. On my Panasonic 50 inch plasma, I knew it was a DVD, but for the first time had someone told me in a placebo situation that it was a Blu Ray, I would have believed it.

My main reason for buying this player is because I have so many DVD'S that have not yet seen a release on Blu Ray. And the ultra upscaling was the main attraction for me. I love the film Autumn In New York for instance and that is DVD only so far.

But no question, a well mastered Blu Ray suprpasses a DVD. But with studios tightening their belts, films that should have been on Blu Ray by now looks like they will not ever be released.
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