Official 2012 Sony BDP-S790 Thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 3559 Old 04-16-2012, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by tmeader View Post

So I'm guessing that the DLNA performance is likewise identical?

That's correct, however bear in mind you can apply the video settings that folks have being discussing above for DLNA content too ... so, for some, PQ may look improved on the 790.
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post #242 of 3559 Old 04-16-2012, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi_Def_Boss View Post

You say have an oppo and a 590, yet you make claims about the PQ and AQ of the 790, which you don't have.

Yes this is true. I am basing my opinion on Sony's website and the reviews I have read that state the difference is not pq&sq, but 4k and 2 hdmi. However, if more people come out on both the S590 camp and S790 camp saying the S790 is superior in pq&sq, then so be it. I have 2.5 months more to turn in my S590 if proved wrong (which won't be the first time )

It would be great if joerod could show pics (since he has all 3) of side by side pics of S590, S790, and Oppo 93.

And one more thing, to people who are jumping on the 4K marketing bandwagon, do your homework:

http://magazine.creativecow.net/arti...ture-of-pixels
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post #243 of 3559 Old 04-16-2012, 10:17 PM
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Not supported

Thanks!
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post #244 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 03:19 AM
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g., great hobby! And for future reference, we yanks like to elegantly (and not so eloquently) like to say someone is "jerking you around"........ But no harm, no foul.

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post #245 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Talk2Me View Post

Runco plasma 50DHD and Sharp LC-60C8470U
Where on Sony website does it say the S780 has any different video or audio processing? The only diff. I see is 4K and 2 hdmi.

It doesn't but when one chip can upscale to 4K that usually means it has something different.

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post #246 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by djgcue View Post

Joe, would the 790 help 3D performance on a handicapped 3D TV such as the Sony KDL-EX720 (i.e. 120HZ refresh rate)?

I would think it would help 3D on all displays.

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post #247 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talk2Me View Post

Yes this is true. I am basing my opinion on Sony's website and the reviews I have read that state the difference is not pq&sq, but 4k and 2 hdmi. However, if more people come out on both the S590 camp and S790 camp saying the S790 is superior in pq&sq, then so be it. I have 2.5 months more to turn in my S590 if proved wrong (which won't be the first time )

It would be great if joerod could show pics (since he has all 3) of side by side pics of S590, S790, and Oppo 93.

And one more thing, to people who are jumping on the 4K marketing bandwagon, do your homework:

http://magazine.creativecow.net/arti...ture-of-pixels

Screen shot pics? Of all 3 side by sides? That would take a lot of time and quite frankly I don't get paid to do this. Plus differences would be tough to see in screen shots...

Not to mention I have 3 more Reviews I am working on.

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post #248 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Hi_Def_Boss View Post

You say have an oppo and a 590, yet you make claims about the PQ and AQ of the 790, which you don't have.

There are always a few in each thread.

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post #249 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Krutsch View Post

Thanks, Joerod, for the wonderful review you published on the 790. Since you have a projector, I can appreciate your need for the improved PQ. However, I have a 'small' Samsung LED panel.

I watched some BDs and Netflix HD this weekend on my 590 and, honestly, I can't imagine what 'better' PQ would look like. The Netflix stuff looked unbelievable and, well, BDs are what they are.

I am tempted to upgrade for improved build quality - the 590 is irritating to look at, both with its goofy shape and the piano black plastic look. But I got mine at Target for 119.00 and I really can't justify going to 250.00 for better looking plastic

Cheers! -- Ken

Thanks Ken. I too scored at Target and now the 590 is in my Daughter's bedroom. Yes, it looks cheap but it does look fine next to her Dynex TV.
I was also impressed with the 590. The 790 just feels more refined. Both with remote responses and menu navigation. The image also can be made to look even better. But if you are happy with your 590's performance then it is hard to beat that at 119.

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post #250 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

It doesn't but when one chip can upscale to 4K that usually means it has something different.

$4K is useful when you sit 2 ' from the screen, and look for more pixels. Read the article I posted. More pixels is for marketing.
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post #251 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 04:51 AM
 
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Oddly, apple increased pixel density on a 3.5" screen and despite it's tiny size, the difference is immediately perceptible from normal viewing distances. Same holds true for the ipad. Same holds true for televisions. Go figure.

We're going to get progressively bigger screens at lower prices and physical media and internet will hold and push through more bits and bytes of information. We will also be getting media with more fps. Even youtube is at 4K.

There's no debate, it's just going to happen.
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post #252 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Talk2Me View Post

$4K is useful when you sit 2 ' from the screen, and look for more pixels. Read the article I posted. More pixels is for marketing.

And I have a 120" screen and the front row looks as good as sitting in my back row. Obviously the person who wrote that "article" has never seen a Sony 1000ES 4K projector either.

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post #253 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi_Def_Boss View Post

Oddly, apple increased pixel density on a 3.5" screen and despite it's tiny size, the difference is immediately perceptible from normal viewing distances. Same holds true for the ipad. Same holds true for televisions. Go figure.

We're going to get progressively bigger screens at lower prices and physical media and internet will hold and push through more bits and bytes of information. We will also be getting media with more fps. Even youtube is at 4K.

There's no debate, it's just going to happen.

We have the new iPad and am ipad2 and though differences are subtle they are still there. I like knowing I am seeing it the best it can be rendered. And seeing is believing. Not reading "articles" on the Internet written by people who haven't seen $h t!

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post #254 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 07:20 AM
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I'm with Hi_Def_Boss, "...it's just going to happen". Sure the marketing boys and girls are going to run with it: that's their jobs but I believe 4K has meaning and purpose. Using the new iPad doesn't make my Galaxy Tab 10.1 look like complete crap or anything, it just makes me want all tablets to have high-res displays now. With large screen HDTVs and projectors, 4K is the next logical step forward in literally making any seat in the 'house' a good one no matter how near or far. I, being a self admitting 'early adopter' [I'm receiving professional help ;-)] do plan to try and wait for official Blu-ray (or whatever) 4K commercial titles to be released along with the accompanying players and both be out for a few months before diving in. I couldn't hold off for DVD back in 1997 but I was proud of my self by holding off on Blu-ray for several month after its release (almost a year really) but admit that was in part due to HD-DVD and the great? format war.
Anyway, 4K all the way! I'm just going to enjoy my medium-def 1080p HDTV for the next 3-4 years until 4K is ripe and hopefully cheaper to boot. I remember very well how long the HDTV transition took.


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post #255 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 07:59 AM
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The S790 support page is now live here
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post #256 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talk2Me View Post

$4K is useful when you sit 2 ' from the screen, and look for more pixels. Read the article I posted. More pixels is for marketing.

As others have said well, and I will simply re-enforce: it depends on the size of your display. For tv's, I agree with you; but for projectors with large screens--mine is 12ft wide (and I sit 11 to 12 FT away), and there are many with larger ones--4K is noticeably better. This is true even with my Sony VW1000, which at present only upconverts 1080p to 4K; I can imagine that it will be even better with true 4K sources (hopefully beginning next year).
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post #257 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

The S790 support page is now live here

Thank you for the update.

millerwill, I have a 92" Mits that's only just over 7½" diagonal and I'm 10-12' away from it and totally agree with you, especially with even larger display areas like yours. Also, using the display with a computer would benefit from 4K as well.


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post #258 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Talk2Me View Post

And one more thing, to people who are jumping on the 4K marketing bandwagon, do your homework:

http://magazine.creativecow.net/arti...ture-of-pixels

I have to agree with those facts. Very very informative.

I have been quite lucky to have played with a PhantomHD high speed camera as part of my work for a project we were bidding for in a military firing range application and the results were outstanding.

I actually got to film and transport the source data wirelessly from a rifle bullet being fired down a firing range......it was uber cool to see. a 1000fps generates alot of data but this can be downloaded from the onboard memory as a data file and then the video can be played in its true glory.

I wish I could have one of those at home

I'm definately not jumping on the 4K bandwagon, but I do like the look of the 790 over the 590, so amongs other little things over the Panny 220 thats going back, the Sony unit is worth the investment for me.

G.
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post #259 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Screen shot pics? Of all 3 side by sides? That would take a lot of time and quite frankly I don't get paid to do this. Plus differences would be tough to see in screen shots...

Not to mention I have 3 more Reviews I am working on.

LOL, take 1 pic of each and post them side by side.
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post #260 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

And I have a 120" screen and the front row looks as good as sitting in my back row. Obviously the person who wrote that "article" has never seen a Sony 1000ES 4K projector either.

You mean the Phd., who invented the Star Wars camera?
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post #261 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

As others have said well, and I will simply re-enforce: it depends on the size of your display. For tv's, I agree with you; but for projectors with large screens--mine is 12ft wide (and I sit 11 to 12 FT away), and there are many with larger ones--4K is noticeably better. This is true even with my Sony VW1000, which at present only upconverts 1080p to 4K; I can imagine that it will be even better with true 4K sources (hopefully beginning next year).

Guys, this is not my opinion on 4K. I wish true 4K was going to happen, but sadly you are all mistaken, and taken in by the marketing hype by the hardware suits, and not the studio executives(content). They are not going to release native 4K content to the general public. It is to small of a market. The general public can barely tel the difference between dvd and blu-ray. And 2k blu-ray has not reached it's full potential. Take a good read over on the Ultra High End $20K+ site, and the "Sony 4K and the rest" thread. Moreover, most of the general pubic listens to compressed mp3 audio. They want convenience, not better quality. Like the guy said, Just because a Ford GT will do 200+ mph, Michigan is not going to increase the speed limit to 200 mph. The hardware companies do not dictate, the studios do.
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post #262 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Talk2Me View Post

Guys, this is not my opinion on 4K. I wish true 4K was going to happen, but sadly you are all mistaken, and taken in by the marketing hype by the hardware suits, and not the studio executives(content). They are not going to release native 4K content to the general public. It is to small of a market. The general public can barely tel the difference between dvd and blu-ray. And 2k blu-ray has not reached it's full potential. Take a good read over on the Ultra High End $20K+ site, and the "Sony 4K and the rest" thread. Moreover, most of the general pubic listens to compressed mp3 audio. They want convenience, not better quality. Like the guy said, Just because a Ford GT will do 200+ mph, Michigan is not going to increase the speed limit to 200 mph. The hardware companies do not dictate, the studios do.

I agree.

and also ....

1) Folks got burnt already with the whole 720p HD and 1080p Full HD debacle

2) No plans for OTA distribution for 4K

3) TV studios, content creators and alike would need to upgrade their technology. Where's the money coming from? Whats the drive to do this?

4) Based on the music industry, folks don't care about quality (e.g. mp3, SACD, DVD-Audio) [as stated above]

5) In general, disk based content playback is dying. Streaming and instant availability is the future.
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post #263 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

No plans for OTA distribution for 4K

In "EBU Gets Serious on UHDTV" (link), an 11/21/2011 article in TVTechnology, we see:
Quote:


International Telecommunications Union Broadcasting Service Working Party 6C within the EBU [. . .] has produced a preliminary draft new recommendation (PDNR) for UHDTV, "Parameter values for UHDTV systems for production and international programme exchange," which [. . .] states that, "it is expected that the 3840x2160 system may find its main application for delivery of television to the home (where it will allow using displays with a screen diagonal of the order of 2.5 metres [about 8 feet]) and for large screen (LSDI) presentations in theatres, halls and other venues," and that the 7680x4320 system of UHDTV "may find its main application in the delivery of LSDI programming to theatres, halls, and other venues such as theme parks, when extremely large screens must be used."


And in September 2011, Planning Team 2 (PT-2) of the Advanced Television Systems Committee (ATSC) issued their "Final Report on ATSC 3.0 Next Generation Broadcast Television (NGBT)" (link) which shows|suggests that currently both 8K4K and 4K2K resolutions are under consideration for the US HDTV system replacement "whenever".

Also interesting (from UK Ofcom in 2009) is "Beyond HDTV" (link).

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post #264 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Talk2Me View Post

You mean the Phd., who invented the Star Wars camera?

How old was that article? Bet if he were able to put the 1000ES side by side with a 1080p projector he would pick the 1000. Not sure anyone would not. Even my Wife notices a difference with it. And she could careless about which one I usually have up. Now that is saying something. That and when just about everyone out of the 50 or so people who have come by to see it say it is the best image they have seen.

Best part of this debate is you don't even have the 790 or a 4K projector.

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post #265 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Talk2Me View Post

Guys, this is not my opinion on 4K. I wish true 4K was going to happen, but sadly you are all mistaken, and taken in by the marketing hype by the hardware suits, and not the studio executives(content). They are not going to release native 4K content to the general public. It is to small of a market. The general public can barely tel the difference between dvd and blu-ray. And 2k blu-ray has not reached it's full potential. Take a good read over on the Ultra High End $20K+ site, and the "Sony 4K and the rest" thread. Moreover, most of the general pubic listens to compressed mp3 audio. They want convenience, not better quality. Like the guy said, Just because a Ford GT will do 200+ mph, Michigan is not going to increase the speed limit to 200 mph. The hardware companies do not dictate, the studios do.

Look at the 3K and up area and you see our long thread about the 1000.

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post #266 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Talk2Me View Post

LOL, take 1 pic of each and post them side by side.

You won't see the detail as you would in person. Not in screen shots. Besides, I have three other Reviews due and I have a full time job. Plus I just got married.


Lastly, it's not worth trying to prove. Especially when I already know.

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post #267 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

That depends on if you think the following features / capabilities are worth the extra. Given you paid $120, that's $130 difference. Tough call.

1) Improved build quality and more conservative styling
2) Front display will indicate HD content with HD icon
3) Two HDMI outputs (allows split Audio/video if required)
4) Super Bit Mapping
5) SKype support when used with additional camera
7) Additional levels of customization of video quality (many pre-sets, and user modes) for both internet video and BD, DVD and DLNA. More impressed with these than I thought I would be.
8) 4K upscaling
9) Improved remote control
10) others ??

WRT items:
1) I was quite dismayed of S780 styling but S790 is much improved. Still, neither match the simple, minimalist styling of S770 which I quite like. That said, S790 is significantly lighter in weight than S770. Of S770 and S790, which would have better build quality and how would that affect SQ, PQ and overall reliability?

9) I use Harmony One, so generally I'm not concerned of quality of player remote control. Only concern is how fast Logitech can obtain remote codes for their database.

Quite impressive list of features otherwise.
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post #268 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post


In "EBU Gets Serious on UHDTV" (link), an 11/21/2011 article in TVTechnology, we see:



And in September 2011, Planning Team 2 (PT-2) of the Advanced Television Systems Committee (ATSC) issued their "Final Report on ATSC 3.0 Next Generation Broadcast Television (NGBT)" (link) which shows|suggests that currently both 8K4K and 4K2K resolutions are under consideration for the US HDTV system replacement "whenever".

Also interesting (from UK Ofcom in 2009) is "Beyond HDTV" (link).

Yes. There's a big difference between a set of recommendations and then a real plan to execute on it. The original ATSC was a long and troubling road for those part of it.
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post #269 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

You won't see the detail as you would in person. Not in screen shots. Besides, I have three other Reviews due and I have a full time job. Plus I just got married.


Lastly, it's not worth trying to prove. Especially when I already know.

Hi Joe,

First off; Congratulations on your wedding. Secondly; I wanted to thank you for the review of the 790 I am looking forward to picking up this player at the end of the month. I don't have a 4K display at the moment, but I am sure I will notice the difference in picture with my panny plasma. I am currently using a ps3, and a panny 110 as my bluray palyers.

Cheers,

Eric
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post #270 of 3559 Old 04-17-2012, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

How old was that article? Bet if he were able to put the 1000ES side by side with a 1080p projector he would pick the 1000. Not sure anyone would not. Even my Wife notices a difference with it. And she could careless about which one I usually have up. Now that is saying something. That and when just about everyone out of the 50 or so people who have come by to see it say it is the best image they have seen.

Best part of this debate is you don't even have the 790 or a 4K projector.

I have never been to the sun, but I know it is too hot to live there. I wish you many happy hours of watching 1080p upconverted to what you think is 4k.
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