Panasonic DMP BDT500 - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

The color saturation is a purely artificial effect cause by the advanced chroma setting. It may look richer, but is actually worse than the original (clipped, less chroma resolution). The only difference electronically between the 500 and other 2012 models is the additional audio output section and twin HDMI. Any perceived differences in the digital audio or picture are due to different settings. If you don't need analog audio or twin HDMI, there is no reason to get the 500 over the 320.

I tried turning it off and on. I am not seeing what you are saying with color.
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post #242 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 01:09 PM
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Got a chance to quickly check out a BDT500 today. Very nice player, but I'm disappointed that it doesn't include a 3.5mm IR input like the S790 and Oppo BDP-93. Come on Panasonic, at this price point that item SHOULD have been included. Not a deal breaker, but an omission that shouldn't be there. At any rate, I'm looking forward to plugging it in and taking it for a drive this weekend.
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post #243 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usxplong View Post

I used the same Chroma and other settings for picture between 320 and 500 and noticed a clearer and more saturated color on the 500. Maybe Panasonic is using upgraded parts in the 500?

The audio sounds great with Flac. I also found that there is an audio boost compared to the Sony. All my settings on the Anthem are the same, start volume, ARC, and bit with HDMI.
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post #244 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 01:38 PM
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Well, I can't compare with the last Panasonic models since my previous model was the BD55, but lets go to the source to see what improvements may be making the difference seen and heard by me and others.


From Panasonic USA website;
http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/DMP-BDT500


High Grade Audio Parts
High quality sound reproduction
High-precision audio processing by four independent 192 kHz 32-bit audio DACs for 7.1-channel sound ensure minimal noise. Highly durable corrosion-resistant gold-plated terminals maintain the high sound quality. The same high-grade capacitors found in top-class audio components are used for the signal and power supply circuits. The result is substantially less distortion, with smooth high frequencies and deep, rich bass. Insulators suppress housing vibration, greatly reducing noise interference and enabling faithful reproduction even of weak signal nuances that might otherwise be masked by vibration.


Adaptive Chroma Processing
Faithful color reproduction
Adaptive Chroma Processing is a high quality image-processing technology developed to precisely process each pixel of Blu-ray Disc™ video signals in the vertical and horizontal directions. Vertical color data has been increased 1.5 times (compared with 2010 models), allowing Adaptive Chroma Processing to reproduce color data more faithfully than ever before.

There is more, but the two above seem to be what would affect the audio/video quality the most.



Addendum: The Adaptive Chroma Processing is on the other 2012 higher level models, e.g. BDT320 - but the High Grade Audio Parts are only on the BDT500. For me and other users of older models it is a moot point - for us there is a huge difference in both audio and video quality.
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post #245 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

I tried turning it off and on. I am not seeing what you are saying with color.

It's really hard to see. I was just trying to explain why the colors might look more saturated to some on one panny model versus another due to this setting.

In spite of the marketing hype, tests show panny's adaptive chroma does more harm than good. If you like the effect, great. But it's not an accurate reproduction of what's on the disc. In any case, this effect is the same on all 2012 models, not just the 500.

The analog audio section is unique to the 500, as I said earlier.
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post #246 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

As the unit will be in my bedroom where overall audio quality is not as critical; I hope this will be my findings over the weekend. Anyone expecting this unit to compete with a unit in excess of $1K has unreasonable expectations or a system that probably can not resolve the differences or both.. I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised by the analog implementation, but I am not expecting it to compete with transports in my main setup, which was not its intended purpose.

I agree. It won't blow your socks off. But I haven't heard another player at or below its price that offers the same level of audio performance.

Like we discussed before, it's a good deal at this price.

It gets out of its own way more often than not, though. This could have easily been an audio quality BOMB, so obviously Panasonic paid some REAL attention here, and that is much appreciated.

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post #247 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

It's really hard to see. I was just trying to explain why the colors might look more saturated to some on one panny model versus another due to this setting.

In spite of the marketing hype, tests show panny's adaptive chroma does more harm than good. If you like the effect, great. But it's not an accurate reproduction of what's on the disc. In any case, this effect is the same on all 2012 models, not just the 500.

The analog audio section is unique to the 500, as I said earlier.

It does not matter if I like it or not. If it is hard to see, then what is the harm? Can you explain?

I have the Sony 790 and there seem to be a boost to the Audio on the 500 compared to the Sony. And all the audio settings are the same on my Anthem.
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post #248 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post

I agree. It won't blow your socks off. But I haven't heard another player at or below its price that offers the same level of audio performance.

Like we discussed before, it's a good deal at this price.

It gets out of its own way more often than not, though. This could have easily been an audio quality BOMB, so obviously Panasonic paid some REAL attention here, and that is much appreciated.

I agree.
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post #249 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

I tried turning it off and on. I am not seeing what you are saying with color.

Yeah, I ran the Spears and Munsil BD Cal disc and there is no color clipping going on with the 'adaptive-chroma-whatever'.

For OTA sources I run a color enhancer on my TV that squishes blue a tad starting well above reference, but when that is deactivated, I'm getting all color levels. This player was MUCH easier to calibrate on my TV than the LG BD 590.

I actually had more neutral adjustments for contrast and brightness than with the LG. The edge definition with HD content is clearly better; I'm getting better edge resolution with a lower sharpness setting on my TV than with the LG.

Trying to decide which colorspace my TV likes better y/c/b/r 4:4:4 or 4:2:2.


Sampled all these Blu Ray discs today:
Dark Knight, Zombieland, Blue Scenes: Journey Through Space, The Other Guys, Casino Royale, Batman Begins.

The black levels I'm getting with this player are noticeably darker on my Vizio XVT3D554SV 55" backlit LED using the Panny '500 than what I was seeing with the LG BD590. I can see this both in the S&M disc and also in movies like the Dark Knight and Star Wars Episode III. I get more detail in the darker scenes. YMMV.

As for better audio performance, that is also more subtle, yet still noticeable. As I articulated before, this is best observed in a wider soundstage even using the Coaxial digital output to my Arcam as compared to my LG BD590. Sine this is a comparative difference, not everybody is going to be in the same boat (obviously).

I look forward to David's observations.

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post #250 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post

Yeah, I ran the Spears and Munsil BD Cal disc and there is no color clipping going on with the 'adaptive-chroma-whatever'.

There is. Check out the second chart on THIS page.
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post #251 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

There is. Check out the second chart on THIS page.

I see the chart. I can say that I am seeing all gradations of Red/Green/Blue to well above reference level and I am not experiencing any crushing that will have anything but a negligible effect on absolute output quality.

In all honesty, my TV is probably not even made to a level of quality that would make it capable of representing the difference.

As I've stated, I'm seeing all color levels according to the S&M disc. Using the blue filter on the CMYK panes, they are also equal.

So, that chart may be accurate, but I doubt it will have anything but an incredibly MINOR effect on my viewing experience. I will be leaving the 'advanced chroma' feature enabled for my viewing as I did for my calibration.

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post #252 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

There is. Check out the second chart on THIS page.

It is a new player. Is possible that FW has been changed with new tech?
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post #253 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Yes I do. Since July 2011.

I was wondering if you could please put your 500 in the system you use your 95 in and give us a comparative report ?
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post #254 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

There is. Check out the second chart on THIS page.


Why would you reference an older model that isn't even being sold in 2012? How do you know the BDT500 hasn't received improved video processing for 2012? Obviously reading the excerpt from Panasonic below there has been some advancements/improvements to the video processing!


From Panasonic's Website;

Adaptive Chroma Processing
Faithful color reproduction
Adaptive Chroma Processing is a high quality image-processing technology developed to precisely process each pixel of Blu-ray Disc video signals in the vertical and horizontal directions. Vertical color data has been increased 1.5 times (compared with 2010 models), allowing Adaptive Chroma Processing to reproduce color data more faithfully than ever before.
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post #255 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSGUSA View Post

Why would you reference an older model that isn't even being sold in 2012? How do you know the BDT500 hasn't received improved video processing for 2012?

Vertical color data has been increased 1.5 times (compared with 2010 models), allowing Adaptive Chroma Processing to reproduce color data more faithfully than ever before.

The reviewed model is a 2011 with the same video processor as the 500. Granted the firmware may indeed be different. I have no idea about that. But the bottom line is this is still an effect, like upconversion in a sense. It's not rendering the data as it is on the disc. It's changing it. With artificial enhancements turned on in one device and off in another, you can't make a valid comparison. That's all I'm saying. If you're judging that one player's artificial enhancements look better than another player's artificial enhancements, that's a different matter. You may as well be judging Ms. Hawaiian Tropic in that case.
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post #256 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post

I agree. It won't blow your socks off. But I haven't heard another player at or below its price that offers the same level of audio performance.

Like we discussed before, it's a good deal at this price.

It gets out of its own way more often than not, though. This could have easily been an audio quality BOMB, so obviously Panasonic paid some REAL attention here, and that is much appreciated.

Buford,

Well Burr Brown only makes one 32Bit DAC that I am aware and I've heard these DACs implemented in a higher end unit and I thought it sounded quite good. I know the implementations are different, but at least the Panasonic has a good starting point and they have given some attention to the analog stage. For the bedroom and in a pinch I will probably be content with the Panasonic in my bedroom.

My wife gets streaming and I get another transport that has 7.1 analog capability and it plays FLAC. Everybody is happy.

Panasonic's seem to always review well and after watching 2 movies today (extended weekend) I am liking what I am seeing. I hope to spend some time with the analog this weekend, but don't expect any adjectives describing what I may or may not be hearing. When it comes to audio I keep it simple; either I like it, I don't like it or I just prefer another transport. Again, no adjectives.

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post #257 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckg1 View Post

I was wondering if you could please put your 500 in the system you use your 95 in and give us a comparative report ?

Chuck,

I stay away from offering subjective opinions on audio and I do have a slight bias towards the analog implementation of the BDP-95. Oppo's 1st implementation of the Sabre DACs in the BDP-83SE literally blew me away. I have a Cambridge Azur 640C v2, which I love dearly and I had to move it to the office and it has since been sold. I have another transport in my main setup that has an outstanding analog implementation, but a different sonic signature than the Oppo and all my listening for CDs, SACDs and DVD-As is handled by these 2 transports for now.

I have some experience with the DACs in the 500 and I don't think you will or would be disappointed. Panasonic may have hit the sweet spot with the 500 depending on needs. You would have to spend a minimum of an additional $150.00 to get 7.1 analog support and probably some features you will never use.

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post #258 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Buford,

Well Burr Brown only makes one 32Bit DAC that I am aware and I've heard these DACs implemented in a higher end unit and I thought it sounded quite good. I know the implementations are different, but at least the Panasonic has a good starting point and they have given some attention to the analog stage. For the bedroom and in a pinch I will probably be content with the Panasonic in my bedroom.

My wife gets streaming and I get another transport that has 7.1 analog capability and it plays FLAC. Everybody is happy.

Panasonic's seem to always review well and after watching 2 movies today (extended weekend) I am liking what I am seeing. I hope to spend some time with the analog this weekend, but don't expect any adjectives describing what I may or may not be hearing. When it comes to audio I keep it simple; either I like it, I don't like it or I just prefer another transport. Again, no adjectives.

I hear ya. I think my adjectives are based more on the deficiencies of my previous player than the ultra-outstanding performance of the '500. Still, it doesn't have any glaring flaws, and my Arx A5 towers and Arcam AVR300 tend to reveal flaws if they are present. I'm pretty pleased so far.

I'd like to hear your thoughts once you get a chance to put some real ears on it.

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post #259 of 1802 Old 05-24-2012, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Chuck,

I stay away from offering subjective opinions on audio and I do have a slight bias towards the analog implementation of the BDP-95. Oppo's 1st implementation of the Sabre DACs in the BDP-83SE literally blew me away. I have a Cambridge Azur 640C v2, which I love dearly and I had to move it to the office and it has since been sold. I have another transport in my main setup that has an outstanding analog implementation, but a different sonic signature than the Oppo and all my listening for CDs, SACDs and DVD-As is handled by these 2 transports for now.

I have some experience with the DACs in the 500 and I don't think you will or would be disappointed. Panasonic may have hit the sweet spot with the 500 depending on needs. You would have to spend a minimum of an additional $150.00 to get 7.1 analog support and probably some features you will never use.

Yes for the sweet spot. Are you returning 790?
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post #260 of 1802 Old 05-25-2012, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

Yes for the sweet spot. Are you returning 790?

Brian,

I am leaning towards returning the 790 unless I can come up with a compelling reason to keep it. The more time I am spending with the 500 the more I am liking it. I know it is approximately $100 more than the 790, but I personally can justify the $100 for the FLAC support and 7.1 analog since it will be hooked up to a Denon AVR-3802, which doesn't support HDMI providing another reason to return the Sony. Also, in my limited viewing the picture seems a more faithful to what I am seeing out of my Oppo. At least this is what my eyes are telling me.

The 790 is a nice machine, but the 500 may be a better fit.

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post #261 of 1802 Old 05-25-2012, 08:37 AM
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I was not able to connect through Netgear WNDR3800 5GHZ Network...Panasonic only see 2.4GHZ but not 5GHZ....

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post #262 of 1802 Old 05-25-2012, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Brian,

I am leaning towards returning the 790 unless I can come up with a compelling reason to keep it. The more time I am spending with the 500 the more I am liking it. I know it is approximately $100 more than the 790, but I personally can justify the $100 for the FLAC support and 7.1 analog since it will be hooked up to a Denon AVR-3802, which doesn't support HDMI providing another reason to return the Sony. Also, in my limited viewing the picture seems a more faithful to what I am seeing out of my Oppo. At least this is what my eyes are telling me.

The 790 is a nice machine, but the 500 may be a better fit.

FYI, Best Buy matched Amazon price $309 = $60
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post #263 of 1802 Old 05-25-2012, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Brian,

I am leaning towards returning the 790 unless I can come up with a compelling reason to keep it. The more time I am spending with the 500 the more I am liking it. I know it is approximately $100 more than the 790, but I personally can justify the $100 for the FLAC support and 7.1 analog since it will be hooked up to a Denon AVR-3802, which doesn't support HDMI providing another reason to return the Sony. Also, in my limited viewing the picture seems a more faithful to what I am seeing out of my Oppo. At least this is what my eyes are telling me.

The 790 is a nice machine, but the 500 may be a better fit.

I am currently using Panny BD85 5.1 analog to my non-hdmi Pioneer Elite receiver. If I get the 790 and have to use coaxial or optical out then my audio quality wouldn't be as good, right ?
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post #264 of 1802 Old 05-25-2012, 11:37 AM
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OK, one more thest was done last night between 320 and 500. This test confirms my previous findings. No doubt the 500 produces better picture than the 320. Whatever the reason is (I don't know) but 500 is better.
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post #265 of 1802 Old 05-25-2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

FYI, Best Buy matched Amazon price $330 = $80

How did you get BB match Amazon price? When I asked them, they said, BB does not match online prices only locals.
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post #266 of 1802 Old 05-25-2012, 11:46 AM
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Panasonic DMP-BDT500 is the most stylish and superb performance in PQ and Audio(7.1)...when I am comparing with Panasonic DMP-BD85K I would say Picture quality has improved by atleast 15/20% as well as Analog 7.1 output is far superior than DMP-BD85K whichone also excellent BD Player............Netflix is much improved with 1080P 5.1 DD or DTS also you can browse...Touch Sensor remote control is fast and very sensitive required some prackticing...only downside is that it is not capable to receive WIFI in 5GHZ only 2.4GHZ..........

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HARMAN KARDON AVR 7300
L & R :> POLK RTI A9 500 W
PARASOUND HALO A21 250 W
EMOTIVA UPA-1 200 W
POLK CSI A6 200 W
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POLK F/XI A6 150 W
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post #267 of 1802 Old 05-25-2012, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by PINKTULIPS7 View Post

Panasonic DMP-BDT500 is the most stylish and superb performance in PQ and Audio(7.1)...when I am comparing with Panasonic DMP-BD85K I would say Picture quality has improved by atleast 15/20% as well as Analog 7.1 output is far superior than DMP-BD85K whichone also excellent BD Player............Netflix is much improved with 1080P 5.1 DD or DTS also you can browse...Touch Sensor remote control is fast and very sensitive required some prackticing...only downside is that it is not capable to receive WIFI in 5GHZ only 2.4GHZ..........

I'm glad someone has compared analog audio of the 85 and the 500. I ditched one of my 85's for an Oppo 93, which was excellent. I see some rather brief comparisons of the 500's 7.1 outs to the Oppo, could someone post a more detailed comparison between the Oppo 93 and the Panny 500s analog outs? Main interest is in FLAC performance and 7.1 out for HT. Thanks.
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post #268 of 1802 Old 05-25-2012, 02:22 PM
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Having looked at the current offering from all the mainstream manufacturers (sony, toshiba, samsung, lg etc) it seems this model from Panasonic is the only one that not only has a great list of features but more importantly they've put some real thought in to it for its audio/video quality, twin hdmi outs, mc analogue, iphone/ipad controls etc. almost like it was built by us enthusiasts. I say well done Panasonic. I don't have much hope for its mc analogues but hope to be proven wrong. Order placed with play.com.
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post #269 of 1802 Old 05-25-2012, 02:36 PM
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How did you get BB match Amazon price? When I asked them, they said, BB does not match online prices only locals.

That is what the guy told me as well, but after talking to the floor manager, it was fine. Just let them know that it is sold by Amazon.
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post #270 of 1802 Old 05-25-2012, 02:59 PM
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Got this unit today about 6 hours ago.

Big big big positive WOW!

I unplugged my prior Panasonic blu-ray player (Panasonic DMP BD85) and plugged in the 500, didn't change any of the default settings.

Default setting blu-ray movie video playback has noticeably *better* blacks (for me the biggest surprise) and slightly better color saturation over my one prior blu-ray player (Panasonic DMP BD85) and also slightly better definition.

I used my Panasonic DMP BD85 remote and it worked fine for the 500. I'll try/deal with the new 500 touch pad remote at some point in the future.

Default DVD movie disc playback is also excellent, but not quite as shocking an improvement as the blu-ray.

CD disc playback is also excellent.

The real shocker was truly superior hi-rez .flac playback, both stereo and 5.1 24/96, via the front panel USB input with an external 2.5" HDD; I put both an NTFS and a FAT32 partition on the HDD with a bunch of 24/96 .flac flies on each partition; just plugged it in, not sure which partition it saw, but the player saw a partition and it's .flac files and the playback was incredibly awesome!

BTW no audio dropouts whatsoever.

A rare moment of true pleasure in the search for audio nirvana.

The best is the enemy of the good. Voltaire (1694-1778)

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Panasonic , Panasonic Dmp Bdt500 Integrated Wi Fi 3d Blu Ray Dvd Player , Blu Ray Players , Lcd Hdtv
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