Official OPPO BDP-103/BDP-105 Anticipation Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 2833 Old 09-17-2012, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post

To my surprise I've become a fan of Amazon's streaming service, primarily bc they have the full West Wing available, and as a Prime customer I get the streaming stuff.
Any chance oppo builds this in?

Well ... worst case scenario ... its supported via the Roku stick. The standalone Roku is regarded a great streamer for Amazon VOD, Netlifx and Hulu. Its just missing VUDU.
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post #362 of 2833 Old 09-17-2012, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mac.Concierge View Post

If you really want the face plate to be something other than black, you can always send it to a company like Colorware.
http://www.colorware.com/default.aspx
They can turn that face plate to just about any color you want.

Thanks for the site but I was more interested in a production/ OEM face plate. I've done a few brushed aluminum faces on lesser amps only because you lose all of the button identifying marks. I would imagine that would be the case here, in which case i'd just do a DIY strip/Polish/brush job. The unit is expensive enough (for me at least) that i'd not want to mess up any resale value should I ever be inclined to sell it.

I'm getting there....!!!
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post #363 of 2833 Old 09-17-2012, 04:52 PM
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Guys. This sounds like a great one box solution that market is crying out for. I think Oppo can really move ahead of the competition with this device. I returned the BDP-95 because of the following:

1. it didn't offer digital inputs
2 no asynchronous dac capability
3 the digital volume control didn't have the range to handle a wider range of input impedances from various power amps I own.
4. Horrible music interface

It's great to see Oppo adding many of these features. The issues still remaining for me are 3. and 4. Anybody know whether the digital volume control will have a wider range than the BDP -95? I want this to be able to replace my 2 channel preamp and separate processor. Also I like using J River and the remote control app on my iphone. With the USB input I'm assuming I can just plug in my music PC and use J River through the Oppo Dacs?

I'm also encouraged if the digital inputs support 5.1/7.1 as I've got loads of action type computer games that I'd like to play through the Oppo.

Good job Oppo!

Cheers
DJ
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post #364 of 2833 Old 09-17-2012, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tomcran View Post

On my Oppo 93, I can play homemade DVD-A discs through digital optical, with absolute perfection -- outstanding, accurate, high quality sound. (I make two-channel stereo, not surround sound.) I do not need HDMI to play these homemade, 2-channel DVD-As.
My receiver does not have HDMI input or output. I love my receiver, it works perfectly, is a real workhorse, and I do not want to change it.
I have made around 40 DVD-As, which are one of my favorite ways of listening to music now.
My question is: With the 103, would I still be able to listen to these 2-channel, homemade, DVD-As through optical digital? If not, that's a deal breaker (at least until my receiver breaks down and I am forced to get a new one, which would have HDMI).

With all due respect you are getting curious questions fom the likes of Scenemissing (post 330) and Eliwankenobi (post 331) ("Curious about this. What are you using as source material for these..." and If by homemade DVD-As you mean burning high-res flac or WAV files on a DVD-R...." because you are using a term that has a specific meaning (DVD-A) but you are using it for a different meaning. DVD-A is an official term for placing a special format of lossless hi-definition (usually) music files onto a DVD. The format even has it's own logo, just like DVD-Video


The DVD disc was used because the hi-def music files would not fit onto a CD disc, with its much smaller storage capacity.

Putting normal music files (be they mp3s, flacs, or whatever) onto a blank DVD is not what is normally meant by a DVD-A disc, regardless of what you're software says it is doing. You are in danger of being like Alice when she told the caterpillar that "Words can mean whatever I want them to mean! (or was that what the caterpillar told Alice??).

A DVD-A normally has lossless audio recorded at, and reproduced at, 24bit 88.2 khz and up to 24 bit 192khz.. There was a lot of controversy when some companies produced discs labelled DVD-A when buyers discovered they were only re-mastered cd tracks (usually 16 bit 44.1khz) put onto a DVD and labelled DVD-A. The buyers were not getting what they expected (that is, hi-definition music).
I know this is off-topic for this thread, but am answering a post in this thread, soo.......sorry.
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post #365 of 2833 Old 09-17-2012, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madaudio View Post

With all due respect you are getting curious questions fom the likes of Scenemissing (post 330) and Eliwankenobi (post 331) ("Curious about this. What are you using as source material for these..." and If by homemade DVD-As you mean burning high-res flac or WAV files on a DVD-R...." because you are using a term that has a specific meaning (DVD-A) but you are using it for a different meaning. DVD-A is an official term for placing a special format of lossless hi-definition (usually) music files onto a DVD. The format even has it's own logo, just like DVD-Video


The DVD disc was used because the hi-def music files would not fit onto a CD disc, with its much smaller storage capacity.
Putting normal music files (be they mp3s, flacs, or whatever) onto a blank DVD is not what is normally meant by a DVD-A disc, regardless of what you're software says it is doing. You are in danger of being like Alice when she told the caterpillar that "Words can mean whatever I want them to mean! (or was that what the caterpillar told Alice??).

It all depends I guess on how DVD-A is defined. Believe me, I have no interest in using deceptive terminology. If Cirlinca and Oppo are both giving me false info as to what is being made, I am pissed because I don't like writing misleading info. Could it be that there are several meanings of DVD-A - yours a very restrictive one, and Oppo's a very general one? I don't care which meaning - no vested interest one way or the other. Just wanna avoid having to be corrected on message boards.

Later edit: Wikipedia supports the more general definition, as Oppo uses it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Audio.
I should add that these do not look like typical mere storage dics. One can create menus with elaborate artwork and design. (Also, I have never been able to play a mere storage/archive disc through a home theater component, even an Oppo - only through the computer.)
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post #366 of 2833 Old 09-17-2012, 07:14 PM
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Enough speculating, when can I buy it!

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post #367 of 2833 Old 09-17-2012, 07:33 PM
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^ Well that depends. Have you set up camp yet in front of the OPPO offices?
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post #368 of 2833 Old 09-17-2012, 07:53 PM
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To Tomcran

Not trying to be picky - just explaining why I think you got those two questions of "...if you mean by...." and "curious about this ...what is your source material". I may be wrong but I think both those posters use the term (DVD-A) in the way I do (and, I think, most people who take an interest in Hi-def audio), and were therefore a little puzzled as to what you meant.

Hi-def media is what DVD-A was originally all about, although unfortunately there were no agreed minimum standards re bit rate and sampling rate, hence the wikipedia entry you mentioned, that showed virtually any level of bit rate and sampling rate, and hence what many people regarded as misleading marketing when some companies offered DVD-As that were of no higher sound quality than what you would get on a normal CD or DVD. So this "hi-fidelity audio" (generally taken to mean higher quality than standard CD quality)was the original meaning of the term, hence the official DVD-A logo.

The first line in the Wikipedia site does say “DVD-Audio (commonly abbreviated as DVD-A) is a digital format for delivering high-fidelity audio content on a DVD” and later "Audio is stored on the disc in Linear PCM format, which is either uncompressed or losslessly compressed with Meridian Lossless Packing".

And yes, the oppo will detect that it has found a DVD in its drive (not a cd or blu-ray disc) which has audio on it, so it can only report it as a DVD Audio. Of course, the oppo will not read a (DVD or CD) data disc (although it may read music files on same??? not sure).

Just as a matter of interest I recently bought a very high-res recording from MA Recordings (24bit 176.4 khz) that was in DVD-Rom format, normally a pc only format, but it had the 24bit 176.4 wav files on it, and my Oppo was quite happy to play it (and VERY impressive sound it was). For those interested, the recording is titled La Segunda, and as I said from http://www.marecordings.com/main/default.php?cPath=35&osCsid=da47665fc5aead651bd9c2cadbce2b3e. When I read that it was in DVD Rom format, I emailed and asked if it would play on an Oppo, or just on a pc, and got a reply that the producer had in fact demoed the disc on an Oppo at an audio show. Took his word, bought the disc, and Oppo produces great sound from it.

So there you go: yes, no agreed and tight definition of what the producers meant when they produced and offered for sale "DVD-A" discs, but the original point of it all was to use the higher storage capacity of the DVD over the CD to be able to store the larger high-fidelity sound files and sell them to the public.

So normally most people, I think, would assume a "home-made" DVD A was a copy of an original commercial DVD-A produced using a ripper program, or alternatively that you had some way of recording ( high-definition) music and manufacturing your own "DVD-A" disc.

But use of specialist terms does often become loose, and maybe others would disagree with my "narrow" definition. I suppose I am just a bit of a purist, and prefer (for the sake of avoiding confusion) that terms keep their original meaning, and that people use other ways of describing items that are similar to, but not lhe same as, the originally (in this case admittedly poorly) defined term.

Cheers

PS if you are interested, you may want to explore the items for sale, and read the various articles, on this site:http://www.aixrecords.com/

pps also this discussion: http://sound.westhost.com/cd-sacd-dvda.htm

ppps or the less technical http://www.ambisonic.net/sacdvdada.html
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post #369 of 2833 Old 09-17-2012, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcran View Post

It all depends I guess on how DVD-A is defined.

The player defines DVD-A as a DVD disc using the "AUDIO_TS" folder structure, where a DVD-V uses the "VIDEO_TS" folder structure. It has nothing to do with the type or quality of the audio contained therein.

The industry defines DVD-A in various ways, none of which are especially useful. There are other variations like HDAD that have high-res audio in a DVD-V format. DVD-V can support PCM audio in stereo up to 24/192 with no video. Any 5.1 audio in lossless format (PCM) must use MLP compression and DVD-A format due to data rate issues on DVD.

You can actually play 5.1 high res files from a DVD-ROM disc on the OPPO as long as you avoid the DVD-A / V formats and stick to ROM formatting. No software is required for authoring, just drop your files on a DVD-ROM and enjoy.
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post #370 of 2833 Old 09-17-2012, 08:15 PM
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re post by rdgrimes:

If I really do want to be a purist, then yes I would have to agree that DVD-A was about a format, rather than content, esp as there never was any agreed minimum-level sound quality agreed to for the DVD-A format. I suppose I have been thinking more in terms of what (I believe) was the original purpose of the format, as opposed to its structure.tongue.gif
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post #371 of 2833 Old 09-17-2012, 09:20 PM
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So apparently the 103 will not have optical digital output - only the 105 will have that? I base this on the info in the summary in the initial post:

New BDP-105 Only Features:
•Fanless (unlike the BDP-95)
•Headphone Amplifier
•Asynchronous USB DAC (24-bit/192KHz)
•Optical and Digital Coaxial Inputs (24-bit/192KHz)
•Properly oriented XLR outputs

I have not seen the back of the 103 pictured anywhere - only the 105. If the 103 does not have optical digital, that is a deal breaker, as I am quite dependent on optical at this time (receiver doesn't do HDMI).
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post #372 of 2833 Old 09-17-2012, 09:30 PM
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^ Not to worry. The 103 does indeed have Optical and Coax digital outputs. Just not Optical/Coax digital inputs. The INPUTS are only on the 105.

If your receiver accepts multi-channel ANALOG input you may find you get even better audio quality using the Analog outputs of the 103 (or 105) instead of Optical Digital.
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post #373 of 2833 Old 09-17-2012, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Not to worry. The 103 does indeed have Optical and Coax digital outputs. Just not Optical/Coax digital inputs. The INPUTS are only on the 105.
If your receiver accepts multi-channel ANALOG input you may find you get even better audio quality using the Analog outputs of the 103 (or 105) instead of Optical Digital.
--Bob

Thanks. I was concerned because Sony has dropped optical digital out from a lot of its newer players, and was worried Oppo is easing them out.
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post #374 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by djkiwi View Post

3 the digital volume control didn't have the range to handle a wider range of input impedances from various power amps I own.

I am very curious and interested about this as well, where did you get the information from about the 105 impedance spec, etc.?

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post #375 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 02:58 AM
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^ Such information is not out yet for the 105.

The post you quoted was citing a concern he had about the 95. Evidently he had some power amps he felt the 95 could not drive directly, i.e., without a preamp in the path.
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post #376 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Such information is not out yet for the 105.
The post you quoted was citing a concern he had about the 95. Evidently he had some power amps he felt the 95 could not drive directly, i.e., without a preamp in the path.
--Bob

Fair enough thanks for the clarification.

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post #377 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcran View Post

Thanks. I was concerned because Sony has dropped optical digital out from a lot of its newer players, and was worried Oppo is easing them out.
Sony's BDP-S590 and BDP-S790 both have both types of digital audio outputs, while the S390 has coax only.

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post #378 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Such information is not out yet for the 105.
The post you quoted was citing a concern he had about the 95. Evidently he had some power amps he felt the 95 could not drive directly, i.e., without a preamp in the path.
--Bob

I really consider this concern as somewhat fishy, if i may say so. The output impedance of a transistor source device is well under 100ohms, typically 50 ohms or less. The input impedance of an amplifier (tube or transistor) is well into the kilo ohms, 10Kohms and above is typical. There should be NO problem for the oppo to drive the amps. Something else is going on, unless the amps are arelly 'exotic' with super-low input impedance of less than 1kohm, which serves no good purpose, imho.

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post #379 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Sony's BDP-S590 and BDP-S790 both have both types of digital audio outputs, while the S390 has coax only.

Back in Feb. when I was looking into the Sonys, none but the most expensive had optical digital. For example, the S580 had none. The S590 apparently came out in mid-March (and I wasn't aware of this). Maybe the reason they added optical back in was because of too many complaints about its prior omission? I don't know. But I had reason to be concerned the industry was phasing it out, so I'm relieved to see its still hanging in there and that Oppo is keeping it.
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post #380 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 11:19 AM
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Do we know if the new player has these features, which were not present in the 93/95?
  • Gapless playback of streaming audio files.
  • High resolution audio in mkv files.
  • Chapters in mkv files.
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post #381 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jmf866 View Post

Chapters in mkv files.

The current players have this.

-Bill
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post #382 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The current players have this.
-Bill

Thanks Bill. It's been a while since I tried that particular feature. I think I had issues with some mkv files a while back which gave me the false impression that this feature is not present. I'll edit my previous post to avoid confusing others.
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post #383 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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There will be good news and bad news. Unfortunately I can't yet tell you them, so you will need to wait a bit longer.
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post #384 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 02:22 PM
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What would I be missing if I bought the 93 instead of the 103 or 105 and put the difference in a decent USB DAC?

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post #385 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Well that depends. Have you set up camp yet in front of the OPPO offices?
--Bob

Nah. Ill be patient and use my good ol 2-day Prime ordering when they get in stock over there smile.gif

I'm just glad we are getting closer.

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post #386 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Depending on your expectations and requirements from the player, nothing. If you are looking for a disc player only, and can ignore things like Internet and network streaming capabilities, then the BDP-93 is a great solution.

If you needed a player which has more bells and whistles, then you might want to wait for the official announcement of the BDP-103 to determine if the new hardware contains enhancements or new features which you will want to take advantage of.
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post #387 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 02:46 PM
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I hope Oppo decides to sell the new players through Amazon so we can use our Prime!!
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post #388 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by margolbe View Post

I hope Oppo decides to sell the new players through Amazon so we can use our Prime!!


I doubt they wouldnt.

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post #389 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Depending on your expectations and requirements from the player, nothing. If you are looking for a disc player only, and can ignore things like Internet and network streaming capabilities, then the BDP-93 is a great solution.
If you needed a player which has more bells and whistles, then you might want to wait for the official announcement of the BDP-103 to determine if the new hardware contains enhancements or new features which you will want to take advantage of.

If there was no difference in BR PQ (not caring about 2D or 4K, 2D only), then Id try and find another 93.

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post #390 of 2833 Old 09-18-2012, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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As a Blu-ray player they will be identical in performance, so the BDP-93 will be a good solution.
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