Official OPPO BDP-103/BDP-105 Anticipation Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post

Lastly, does Cinavia create issues for decrypted SD-DVD copies (DVD-R) or only BD-R?

Cinavia could affect DVD, although the focus is primarily on BD. However, if Cinavia watermarking is present on the DVD, it will be an issue. You can probably be safe to assume that more releases will include Cinavia watermarking going forward.

This is a partial list of affected discs. However, I don't think this is complete, as I know of at least one BD that is not listed.

http://blog.dvdfab.com/cinavia-protection.html
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post #542 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

My personal opinion is that the 103/105 represent a significant performance improvement even compared to the 93/95, but I imagine there will be some users out there who disagree because they are more sensitive to different ASPECTS of performance than I am. I doubt there will be ANY 83 owners who feel that way.
But for example, the YouTube app in the 103/105 operates at a speed you would likely expect. It is no longer sluggish. Going back to the 93 to test it (as has been necessary recently due to a bug fix being worked on) was pretty painful.
And in a recent test, I timed a power up for the new players -- i.e., from pressing the power button to Home Menu becoming stable on the HDMI 1 output -- as 7 seconds. Put it this way, if you power up using Tray Open, the player will be fully powered up before you have time to stick your disc in the tray.
--Bob

You've given me a lot to think about. Do I suck it up and get the 103? Or ride it out with my unCinavia'd 93? What to do?

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post #543 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 08:18 AM
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Looking forward to posting a Review of the 103 soon on my site. I am comparing it to the Panny 500 and the Sony 790. smile.gif

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post #544 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

Cinavia could affect DVD, although the focus is primarily on BD. However, if Cinavia watermarking is present on the DVD, it will be an issue. You can probably be safe to assume that more releases will include Cinavia watermarking going forward.
This is a partial list of affected discs. However, I don't think this is complete, as I know of at least one BD that is not listed.
http://blog.dvdfab.com/cinavia-protection.html

Looking at that list it seems Sony is a major supporter.

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post #545 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 08:31 AM
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If I understand correctly, the 105 can be used as a DAC also due to the digital optical and coax inputs while the 95 can't. This would allow me to get rid of my external DAC and just use the Oppo's analog outs into my preamp. Is that right?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #546 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Looking at that list it seems Sony is a major supporter.

Yep, you think that's a coincidence? It will be interesting to see how much other studios follow along.
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post #547 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 08:58 AM
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How long will it take before these players are available in Europe after their introduction in the US?
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post #548 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

If I understand correctly, the 105 can be used as a DAC also due to the digital optical and coax inputs while the 95 can't. This would allow me to get rid of my external DAC and just use the Oppo's analog outs into my preamp. Is that right?

You are correct that the 95 does not accept Digital Audio Input. The 95 can pull media files off of an attached hard drive or accessed over the network from a DLNA server, but there's no way to "push" a digital audio stream into it.

The new players CAN accept "pushed" Digital Audio.

The 103 can *ALSO* be used as a DAC/Sound Processor with the digital audio coming in on:

1) Front HDMI Input
2) Rear HDMI input
3) Audio Return Channel on HDMI 1 Output, or
4) Audio Return Channel on HDMI 2 Output

In addition the 103 can also "render" Digital Audio pushed into it over the network by a Digital Media Controller (software that directs files from a DLNA server into the OPPO player).

Which above is also all true for the 105!

Then for the extra features unique to the 105, in addition to the Optical and Coax Digital Audio Inputs you mentioned, the 105 also includes an asynchronous USB Digital Audio Input.

Frankly, I think people are going to have a field day exploring all the different possibilities here. biggrin.gif

Now, there are practical limits for all of this stuff that people will need to get familiar with. The Manual for the 103 has already been posted on the OPPO Digital web site, and that's a good place to start. For the features unique to the 105, you'll need to wait a little longer for similar details.
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post #549 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Kraton View Post

How long will it take before these players are available in Europe after their introduction in the US?

Based on the PR work which seems to be already happening in Europe, it looks to me like OPPO UK wants to make the lag time as short as possible. But I don't really have any visibility into their plans. They'll need to get European regulatory approvals, adjust the Manuals appropriately (perhaps without waiting for full translations into European languages), and adjust/test the firmware for the specific market conditions in Europe -- for example as regards the Internet apps.

But of course there's always the possibility for delays if they discover bugs, e.g., peculiar to discs authored for Europe.
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post #550 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The difference is a couple things: Firmware improvements in how the processors are utilized, and, evidently, a better architecture for how the pieces of the video chain work together. (The Marvell stuff *IS* actually newer than what's in the 93/95, but I don't know that the differences are important to this result.)
Since I don't really know the technical details of HOW they pulled it off, I'll just have to call it "magic".
I've always enjoyed a good magic trick!
As always, keep in mind that there are significant Subjective elements to this stuff. Your mileage may vary, etc., etc.
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There was some talk for a while about a firmware update to improve the Marvell processor in the 93/95. Ever going to happen?
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post #551 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

Cinavia could affect DVD, although the focus is primarily on BD. However, if Cinavia watermarking is present on the DVD, it will be an issue. You can probably be safe to assume that more releases will include Cinavia watermarking going forward.
This is a partial list of affected discs. However, I don't think this is complete, as I know of at least one BD that is not listed.
http://blog.dvdfab.com/cinavia-protection.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Looking at that list it seems Sony is a major supporter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

Yep, you think that's a coincidence? It will be interesting to see how much other studios follow along.

Man, this whole cinavia thing is really starting to bug me. At first I was thinking it isn't a big deal, I don't make back up copies. But then, what if you want to make a demo disc of bd's you own (like the scubasteve demo)? Any movies on your demo disc that have the watermark aren't going to work. That's lame.
And what about people who ripped their bd's to a server and watch the movie that way, instead of putting the disc in the drive?
Ugh. There are features of the new oppo's I like and want and some features I don't need (vs the 93/95). But this whole cinavia thing is a real bummer.
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post #552 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 09:39 AM
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Can someone help me with a question?

I was looking at getting an Onkyo AVR...mainly their Flagship model the TX-NR5010. I remember reading about how the Oppo 95 unit would by pass Audyssey Calibration on the AVR if you wanted to use the high end DAC (If I remember right, if you wanted to use the high-end DAC on the Oppo 95, you had to use the Analog outputs on back of the unit and connect them to the AVR and you would end up having to bypass Audyssey calibration.

Is this the same case with the new Oppo 105? What about the Oppo103?

Ideally I'd love to be able to use the Oppo's high-end DAC and still maintain Audyssey calibration. Is this do-able at all?
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post #553 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeblast View Post

Can someone help me with a question?
I was looking at getting an Onkyo AVR...mainly their Flagship model the TX-NR5010. I remember reading about how the Oppo 95 unit would by pass Audyssey Calibration on the AVR if you wanted to use the high end DAC (If I remember right, if you wanted to use the high-end DAC on the Oppo 95, you had to use the Analog outputs on back of the unit and connect them to the AVR and you would end up having to bypass Audyssey calibration.
Is this the same case with the new Oppo 105? What about the Oppo103?
Ideally I'd love to be able to use the Oppo's high-end DAC and still maintain Audyssey calibration. Is this do-able at all?

AFAIK, Audyssey can only work on digital signals, so the AVR would have to convert the analog back to PCM to apply room correction, defeating the purpose of using the Oppo's DACs. It's the reason I have the 93 instead of the 95.

If you use headphones, or want to use the Oppo's DACs for stereo sources where room correction isn't as critical, that might be reason to still consider the 105.
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post #554 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 09:50 AM
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post #555 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

AFAIK, Audyssey can only work on digital signals, so the AVR would have to convert the analog back to PCM to apply room correction, defeating the purpose of using the Oppo's DACs. It's the reason I have the 93 instead of the 95.
If you use headphones, or want to use the Oppo's DACs for stereo sources where room correction isn't as critical, that might be reason to still consider the 105.

Hey thanks for the reply.

So the 105 is similar to the 95 in this way I take it...?
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post #556 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Looking at that list it seems Sony is a major supporter.

At present, nearly all new Sony releases have Cinavia. Some Warner titles do too, but not all. Very few DVDs have it. None of the other studios have thus far ponied up the fees and there's no news on if or when they will.
Its a relatively small percentage of titles. Studios will decide if the licensing fees cost less than not using it. In many cases the answer has to be no.

Going forward it's good to note that there ARE ways to circumvent Conavia protections when ripping for playback from storage. More on that later.
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post #557 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeblast View Post

Hey thanks for the reply.
So the 105 is similar to the 95 in this way I take it...?

The 105 would be similar to the 95 in that regard. I had heard there might be some type of room correction technology that could be applied to analog signals but I don't know if that would be applicable to Audyssey. In any event, it would be up to the AVR to implement such a feature, and not dependent on the Oppo player. You might want to double check with Onkyo to be sure.
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post #558 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by glangford View Post

There was some talk for a while about a firmware update to improve the Marvell processor in the 93/95. Ever going to happen?

It's always possible that one of the clever folks at OPPO will have a brainstorm and figure out a way to improve it further. Heck, we didn't think DVD 24p Conversion could be made to work in the 93/95 hardware and here it is. But I suspect the remaining issues are architectural -- i.e., how the various parts of the video chain interact with each other. And if that's the case, it may not be possible to counter that in firmware.

One thing I'm certain of though, if they figure out a way to make it even better they WILL put out new firmware for the 93/95 -- even after the 103/105 ship. These guys really do get a kick out of making this stuff work well.
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post #559 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ There has to be a handshake because copy protection has to be re-established to take into account the different content format. Essentially, a new file is being played at each of those transitions so things start over.
You can't avoid the handshake because the copy protection stuff is finicky by design. It likes to fail. All you can do is try to make the handshake go as quickly as possible and with the user not actually forced to watch the sausage being made.
--Bob
Single chip players don't do nearly as many handshakes as the Oppo dual chip designs. Oppo could do better in their firmware to minimize this, I just wondered if they had done so in the 103. During the history of the BDP-83 the number of handshakes for a given disk varied with the firmware version, and the latest version is not the best they've had (it's easy to notice this if you have a display that blanks for 5 seconds or more during a handshake). I know I'm not the only one bothered by this, but it doesn't seem to be a priority for Oppo.
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post #560 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 10:28 AM
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^ The NUMBER of handshakes has not changed. The DURATION of the various handshakes is what has varied as the firmware has been adjusted to work with the widest range of displays and AVRs.
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post #561 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 10:33 AM
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So this new android control app..

Does it simply mimic the remote or does it allow you to browse to the dlna, list and launch files from the android device screen?
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post #562 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 10:37 AM
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^ The version that is in Public Beta now for the 93/95 mimics the remote.
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post #563 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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At this time it only emulates the IR commands. Additional features may be added in the future.
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post #564 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

My understanding is that the new OPPO players will NOT play 4K source material when it arrives.

There's no such thing as 4K video on shiny discs, so I'm not sure what "arrival" you're waiting for. But whatever format it might take, a completely new generation of players will be needed to play it. BD technology as we know it can't support 4K.
I'm not waiting for anything at the moment. wink.gif

I was alerting another poster who thought the new OPPO players are "4K ready". I just pointed out that it is my understanding that the new players can convert to 4K from other resolutions, but as you point out can't play what doesn't exist. smile.gif

Any "arrival" is for another day and other equipment.
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post #565 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

My understanding is that the new OPPO players will NOT play 4K source material when it arrives. What they can do is convert other resolutions like 1080p to 4K.
If you are planing on picking up a Sony 4k projector, it will to the conversion for you. At $25,000 it should. eek.gif
Thanks for pointing that out. I'm still glad it will upscale and should present great PQ given what the 83 does in my HT.
True. smile.gif
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post #566 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 11:34 AM
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+1. The Sony BDP--S790 that features a dual core processor has a fan because of it.

I will check when I get home, but I believe the Sony does not have a fan; only ventilation holes.

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post #567 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The hidden gem in these players is their speed. In its day, the 83 was considered a "fast" player. Remember 4 minute boot up times and 5 minute disc loading times from early Blu-ray players?
But folks coming to the 103/105 from even, say, an 83 are going to be delighted with the performance of these new players.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

There are a couple other aspects of player capability that I think I'm free to disclose at this point.
First, the loader in the new players represents yet another step up in its ability to deal with damaged discs. The loader in the 93/95 was able to handle discs the 83 could not read, and was better at recovering from recoverable disc read problems than the 83 for discs both players could handle via read/recovery.
The 103/105 are even better than the 93/95 in this regard. I have some damaged discs that I use in testing which the 83 simply can not read. At all. The 93 can read them with pauses/skips while it does recovery retry. The new players just read the dang discs as if they were fresh out of the shrink wrap! Now, let's be reasonable here. There will be types of disc damage that even the new players can't read through. The nature of problem discs will also vary according to the type of disc, e.g., CD vs. SD-DVD vs. Blu-ray. But I was shocked to discover how easy it was to spot the new players doing better with damaged discs than the 93/95, even given the improvement already present in the 93/95 over the 83.
The other item that I feel I can mention at this point is that the new players have now dethroned the 83 as my "Reference Player" for upscaled SD-DVD movies. There are still a few things the 83 does better (the range of odd-ball SD-DVD authoring out there being beyond rational comprehension), but for most of my SD-DVD movie viewing, I now prefer the new players. And I'm hopeful that additional improvements are still in the cards, as this stuff is still being tweaked.
--Bob

This is what I was really expecting from the new OPPOs. This is great news for us 83 owners.

I think the Marvell QDEO chip in this player is an updated version of the one in the 93 series. Marvell has it listed on their site but they have very few specifications for it. The model number is 88DE2755. The one in the 93 series is 88DE2750.

I am also thinking that this Cinavia may not be that big of a deal because it appears that only usual DRM suspect number one, Sony, is using it. I do not see usual DRM suspect number two, Disney, or usual DRM suspect number three, Fox, really supporting it yet. If the other studios don't jump aboard then this will be only a minor issue to me as I do not own that many Sony titles. Now if Universal and Warner Brothers start using it heavily then we can expect this to be an issue going forward. Either way cinivia is not an issue for me.

The only person I see stopping me from getting a new OPPO is Ben Bernake. He is really killing me with this endless idea of printing money as this is causing me to spend all of my surplus income on the basics of living (comodities) which are food, energy, shelter. He is going to do this until 2015. I use to spend about 1000 dollars to heat my home 5 years ago. Now that has jumped to almost 4000 dollars this year even after reducing my consumption by 600 gallons a year. Somebody in washington should grow a pair and fire this guy before we need a wheel barrow full of dollars to purchase a loaf of bread.

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post #568 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 11:45 AM
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I think you have misinterpreted the post: it does not say it won't play DVD-A discs, it says it won't play ISO files: nor will the 93 or 95, and this is because of Oppo's adherance to copyright issues. I am not tech savvy enough to understand the watermark issue, but am assuming that if you had the eqaipment/software todo a bit-for-bit copy, it might play the copy. (someone else will need to comment on this point)
Hi,

Indeed I didn't notice it talks about ISO. ISO is not supported, that's fully clear. No question about.
What I meant, is when an DVD-A ISO is burnt to DVD-R as an image, so it's not a separate ISO anymore, but it's a standard DVD-A.

This question is still unanswered, whether if the DVD-A disc contains DVD-A Verance watermark, then 103/105 will play it?

It's a question because the Verance is Cinavia.... (although maybe an earlier version compared to watermark on Blu-Ray discs, I don't know it).
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post #569 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeblast View Post

Can someone help me with a question?
I was looking at getting an Onkyo AVR...mainly their Flagship model the TX-NR5010. I remember reading about how the Oppo 95 unit would by pass Audyssey Calibration on the AVR if you wanted to use the high end DAC (If I remember right, if you wanted to use the high-end DAC on the Oppo 95, you had to use the Analog outputs on back of the unit and connect them to the AVR and you would end up having to bypass Audyssey calibration.
Is this the same case with the new Oppo 105? What about the Oppo103?
Ideally I'd love to be able to use the Oppo's high-end DAC and still maintain Audyssey calibration. Is this do-able at all?

This ofcourse is where analogue and digital clash... Hard-boiled audiophiles and 2ch afficionados will make sure the room is optimally treated so they don't miss anything that a good DAC + preamp is revealing. BDP-95/105 is for gready folks who want good digital and good analogue. Nothing wrong with sticking to the 93/103 but the 95/105 gives the choice for both. Having XT32 is no garantee for an AVR to have a superb preamp section. Going "pure direct" or something is bypassing everything but the volume. I guess it very much depends on the pre-pro or AVR which would be best for 2ch...

There's an other advantages in using analogue outputs: AVR's mostly do not send digital sources to zone 2/3. I had to buy a DacMagic to deal with the optical output of the Apple Express before entering the AVR. This alone almost jusitifies the extra cost of the 105 vs the 103 to me.

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post #570 of 2833 Old 09-20-2012, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batagy View Post

Hi,
Indeed I didn't notice it talks about ISO. ISO is not supported, that's fully clear. No question about.
What I meant, is when an DVD-A ISO is burnt to DVD-R as an image, so it's not a separate ISO anymore, but it's a standard DVD-A.
This question is still unanswered, whether if the DVD-A disc contains DVD-A Verance watermark, then 103/105 will play it?
It's a question because the Verance is Cinavia.... (although maybe an earlier version compared to watermark on Blu-Ray discs, I don't know it).

Excellent question. The answer is unclear to me because the DVD-A Verance watermark is usually discussed along with Cinavia protection. One of the benefits of the Oppo over the years has been the ability to bypass DVD-A watermarks.
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