Official OPPO BDP-103/BDP-105 Anticipation Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 2833 Old 09-25-2012, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michdys View Post

From The Audioholics Q & A
So Oppo hired a designer of one of the popular aftermarket modifications just to "maintain" the same sound and performance measurements of the BDP-95 ? That seems like a waste of money to me rolleyes.gif

You are only taking away one part of the message. If you go back to the quote about the BDP-103, they made improvements to the sound of the player even though they are using the same Cirrus Logic chipsets. The same methodology to make the BDP-93 sound better was also used to make the BDP-105 sound better, all without expending the detail and the accuracy the BDP-95 is renowned for.

So what you can take away from the quote is that the BDP-105 sounds better.
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post #812 of 2833 Old 09-25-2012, 04:47 PM
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But it is a mixed message. On one hand it claimed to be better yet on the other is claimed to retain the quality of its predecessor.

So which is it? Or is it just poorly written section of the article?

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post #813 of 2833 Old 09-25-2012, 05:06 PM
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From the recently published interview, I have a hard time understanding the following paragraph:
Quote:
The BDP-103 and BDP-105 employ a two-step video processing approach that utilizes video processing algorithms implemented on the main dual-core SoC and the latest generation of Marvell’s Qdeo video processor. The HDMI 1 output is driven by the Qdeo video processor while the HDMI 2 output is direct from the main SoC. The main SoC performs video decoding, de-interlacing, scaling and 2D-to-3D conversion, and the Qdeo video processor can perform further enhancements such as noise reduction, contrast and color enhancements.

It's probably just not very well written, but this way it sounds like Oppo has decided no longer to use Marvell's deinterlacing and scaling at all and go with a custom solution instead. But I don't think that's true. Isn't it much more likely that HDMI 1 is stil fully driven by the Marvell QDEO (deinterlacing, scaling and post processing), while HDMI 2 is bound to deinterlacing and scaling by the main SoC, but now (contrary to the 93/95) the QDEO can be used for post processing on the HDMi 2 as well ? Or is it just like before: HDMI 1 is QDEO only and HDMI 2 is SoC only ?
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post #814 of 2833 Old 09-25-2012, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudoh View Post

From the recently published interview, I have a hard time understanding the following paragraph:
It's probably just not very well written, but this way it sounds like Oppo has decided no longer to use Marvell's deinterlacing and scaling at all and go with a custom solution instead. But I don't think that's true. Isn't it much more likely that HDMI 1 is stil fully driven by the Marvell QDEO (deinterlacing, scaling and post processing), while HDMI 2 is bound to deinterlacing and scaling by the main SoC, but now (contrary to the 93/95) the QDEO can be used for post processing on the HDMi 2 as well ? Or is it just like before: HDMI 1 is QDEO only and HDMI 2 is SoC only ?

Here is another way to read it where it matches the 93/95, with bold my additions:
Quote:
The BDP-103 and BDP-105 employ a two-step video processing approach (2 step for HDMI 1 only, just like the 93/95) that utilizes video processing algorithms implemented on the main dual-core SoC (Used on both HDMI 1 and 2) and the latest generation of Marvell’s Qdeo video processor (HDMI 1 only). The HDMI 1 output is driven by the Qdeo video processor while the HDMI 2 output is direct from the main SoC. The main SoC (which was just said was on HDMI 2) performs video decoding, de-interlacing, scaling and 2D-to-3D conversion, and the Qdeo video processor can perform further (further - ie, Qdeo on HDMI 1 does de-interlacing, scaling, etc, plus:) enhancements such as noise reduction, contrast and color enhancements.

So its really saying the same thing: SoC is used exclusively on HDMI 2, and QDEO/SoC combination on HDMI 1, and they're saying QDEO can do everything the SoC does plus more.
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post #815 of 2833 Old 09-25-2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

To eliminate any interference from the analogue section including the related power components

Is the interference audible? By "unplugging" the analog section does this basically make the player a digital transport only? My apologies for the OT post just trying to wrap my head around this concept.

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post #816 of 2833 Old 09-25-2012, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classicrecording View Post


Now, what do i do with my 95? rolleyes.gif

Gimme it tongue.gif

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post #817 of 2833 Old 09-25-2012, 09:00 PM
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With the 103 (and 105), if you're inputting Dolby Digital 5.1 lossy to the HDMI in, and have the digital audio output set to LPCM, will it convert the Dolby Digital to multi channel LPCM and output that on the HDMI output? The reason I'm asking is for connection to an external DAC that only reads LPCM, not licensed codecs (Dolby, DTS etc)
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post #818 of 2833 Old 09-25-2012, 09:17 PM
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Is Oppo-105 able to:

upconvert video signals from 1080i or lower resolution to 1080P? it upconverts to 4K2K but what about to 1080P?

Five channel DD decoding and two-channel stereo to 5.1?

If going directly to amp, does it implement +15dB LFE boost?
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post #819 of 2833 Old 09-25-2012, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Neuromancer,
Thanks for posting the link to Audioholics interview with Oppo smile.gif. This part is really interesting:
For the BDP-103, we hired the designer of one of the popular BDP-93 aftermarket modifications to help us improve its analog audio. The new design has a warmer, more open and lively sound comparing to the BDP-93. This is achieved by a novel configuration of the DAC chip and a new analog buffer and filter stage following the DAC output.
I wonder how the analog section of the 103 would compare to the 83SE? I'll be buying the 103 and if I still have the 83SE I'll try to do a comparison of the two.
Bill

Even better, is whether the AQ of the 103 analog section is on par with the 95/105? Providing a 'warmer' sound sounds like tube emulation so maybe the guys used for the NuForce 93 version is the same one used for the 103? Or maybe they used Dan Modwirght?

Either way, if the AQ of the 103 is within spitting distance of the 105, then i can see folks abandoning the 105 in favor of the cheaper 103 saving $800 in the process ???

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #820 of 2833 Old 09-25-2012, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Yes and no. There are some new lossless audio codec support in MKV containers, but one is still glaringly absent and may never be added to the player. MTK has been very stubborn supporting certain technologies that OPPO has been requesting over the years, and once the BDP-103 is officially released, I will be able to talk about the changes which they have made, and ones which they still refuse to support.
Player needs to be turned on as you have to engage the HDMI INPUT by selecting it. They are otherwise inactive.

Thanks Neuromancer ; I have a good idea which codec that may be . The new oppo;s seem to have more workarounds for playing 3d files notwithstanding what cinavia brings smile.gif The 95 does a good job with sbs if that can be streamed with dnla instead it would simplify things for sure smile.gif
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post #821 of 2833 Old 09-25-2012, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michdys View Post

From The Audioholics Q & A
So Oppo hired a designer of one of the popular aftermarket modifications just to "maintain" the same sound and performance measurements of the BDP-95 ? That seems like a waste of money to me rolleyes.gif
Well, it's good to know that - according to this article at least - the 105 won't sound any better than my 95, now I won't feel the urge to replace the latter tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobearQSI View Post

Here is another way to read it where it matches the 93/95, with bold my additions:
So its really saying the same thing: SoC is used exclusively on HDMI 2, and QDEO/SoC combination on HDMI 1, and they're saying QDEO can do everything the SoC does plus more.

Well said Bo! I was also confused like Michyd was and you just clearly explained it very very well. Thanks for clearing the cobwebs from our ears on this poorly worded letter from Oppo.

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #822 of 2833 Old 09-25-2012, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatjulio View Post

With the 103 (and 105), if you're inputting Dolby Digital 5.1 lossy to the HDMI in, and have the digital audio output set to LPCM, will it convert the Dolby Digital to multi channel LPCM and output that on the HDMI output? The reason I'm asking is for connection to an external DAC that only reads LPCM, not licensed codecs (Dolby, DTS etc)

I don't see why not. Simply setting the output to bitstream passes the encoded Doliby stream to the next device downstream. But setting it to LPCM sets the audio to regulay LPCM kust like the previous players have done in the past/

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #823 of 2833 Old 09-25-2012, 10:39 PM
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Will I be able to listen to the music that I have been backing up on hard drives like I do with the 95, and how about MKV movies, etc?

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Originally Posted by luismanrara View Post

Will I be able to listen to the music that I have been backing up on hard drives like I do with the 95, and how about MKV movies, etc?
Of course.
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post #825 of 2833 Old 09-25-2012, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatjulio View Post

With the 103 (and 105), if you're inputting Dolby Digital 5.1 lossy to the HDMI in, and have the digital audio output set to LPCM, will it convert the Dolby Digital to multi channel LPCM and output that on the HDMI output? The reason I'm asking is for connection to an external DAC that only reads LPCM, not licensed codecs (Dolby, DTS etc)

Yes. Or you could just use the DACs in the 103/105 and listen on the multi-channel Analog outputs.

For Optical/Coax output you'll get DD5.1 if Bitstream output is set for those two, or a stereo down-mix if LPCM.
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post #826 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharok View Post

Is Oppo-105 able to:

upconvert video signals from 1080i or lower resolution to 1080P? it upconverts to 4K2K but what about to 1080P?

Five channel DD decoding and two-channel stereo to 5.1?

If going directly to amp, does it implement +15dB LFE boost?

1) Yes, 480i/576i, 480p/576p, 720p, and 1080i content can all by upscaled to HDMI 1080p output. This is true regardless of the source of the content. For example you could feed a 480i Standard Definition TV broadcast from your Cable TV box into one of the HDMI inputs, and the OPPO will upscale that to 1080p for its HDMI outputs. The same would be true for a 1080i HD channel broadcast.

2a) Yes, the players can be set to decode any content Bitstream they accept to LPCM for output on HDMI. Specific to your question, yes, DD 5.1 can be decoded to HDMI LPCM 5.1.

2b) The new players add DTS NEO:6 surround processing for 2.0 content played using the multi-channel Analog outputs. I'm not sure I have a handle yet on the detailed characteristics of that.

3) The players do not implement boost on the Analog LFE output (other than the usual Volume trim adjustment). The nature of the attenuation is a bit different from what happens in the 93/95. In the 93/95, +15dB boost (external to the player) is required to match the Analog LFE output to the other multi-channel Analog outputs regardless of the player's Speaker Configuration settings. This attenuation and boost is built in to insure headroom for the LOUD bass recorded as LFE, plus bass potentially mixed in as part of bass steering from "Small" speakers. In the 103/105, that 15dB attenuation and boost is still true if any speakers are set to "Small". However, if ALL speakers are set to Large (or some Large and the rest OFF) then the attenuation, and thus also the required boost, is only the standard 10dB inherent in how LFE is recorded. Typically when no pre-amp is used, the "amp" that the Analog LFE output is connected to directly is the amp built into your Subwoofer. And thus the boost amount -- either +10dB or +15dB according to your speaker configuration settings in the OPPO, is easily provided by simply adjusting upward the volume knob on that Sub.
--Bob

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post #827 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by giedrys View Post

$1199MSRP for 105? eek.gif

Yes. In the US.
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post #828 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 12:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

But it is a mixed message. On one hand it claimed to be better yet on the other is claimed to retain the quality of its predecessor.

Often what happens when you modify the players, the scoped audio is completely different from what the original signal was. There are ways to "color" the signal without removing information (NuForce is proud of their engineering which removes "unwanted odd order harmonics" ). So the player's audio has been improved, without changing the introducing additional artifacts to the signal.
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post #829 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 01:03 AM
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On the OPPO Digital (US) web site, the Support page for the upcoming BDP-103 player has now been updated to include the revised remote control (IR command set) document, and also the revised RS-232 protocol document for the 103/105 players:

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/blu-ray-BDP-103-Support.aspx



The OPPO UK web site has now added info for the upcoming European model BDP-103EU player:

http://www.oppo-bluray.co.uk/ecommerce/blu-ray-players/BDP-103EU.aspx

They state they expect the 103EU to be available from authorized resellers in October. I didn't spot EU pricing on their site.

In addition, their Downloads section now includes the Manual for the 103EU (English only at present), as well as some other goodies such as that updated RS-232 protocol mentioned above:

http://www.oppo-bluray.co.uk/customer-services/downloads/

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post #830 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I confirmed this using the HDMI Inputs on a 103. The other styles of digital input are only on the 105, and we're in kind of a strange, fuzzy period right now on what we can talk about for 105-only features. Stay tuned.
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I thought audio had to be embedded in a video signal if using HDMI inputs. How would that work with HDCD?

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post #831 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 01:31 AM
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^ Yes, HDMI audio is embedded in the "blanking intervals" of an HDMI video signal.

Whatever is producing the HDMI output for that HDCD playback has to negotiate both a video and embedded audio format. Since undecoded HDCD audio is nothing more than 2.0 LPCM 44.1 KHz 16-bit, that can be embedded in any valid HDMI signal -- even an SD signal of a solid black, still image.

Basically there's nothing special you need to do. Whatever is playing your HDCD disc and generating HDMI output must also be generating an HDMI video signal -- of some sort -- as part and parcel of that output. There's no way for it NOT to have video as part of its HDMI output.

Now when you play an HDCD disc on the OPPO, what you get for video is the Music playback screen generated by the OPPO -- with info about what you are playing (Disc and track info, Gracenote album cover art, and the like). When you do the same thing using an HDMI input from some other player, the video that goes through the OPPO is whatever has been generated by that other player. It may be a black frame, or it may be something more elaborate such as what the OPPO produces for its own playback. The OPPO can overlay its own "on-screen Info" display on top of that showing the characteristics of the input audio and video, but it won't try to replace that input video with it's own type of internally generated Music playback screen.
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post #832 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Even better, is whether the AQ of the 103 analog section is on par with the 95/105? Providing a 'warmer' sound sounds like tube emulation so maybe the guys used for the NuForce 93 version is the same one used for the 103? Or maybe they used Dan Modwirght?
Either way, if the AQ of the 103 is within spitting distance of the 105, then i can see folks abandoning the 105 in favor of the cheaper 103 saving $800 in the process ???

It should be very interesting when both the 103 and the 105 are available for comparisons. I had thought about the 105 but the 103 will be fine for me and I'll be saving $700 smile.gif.

Bill

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post #833 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 07:40 AM
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post #834 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 07:49 AM
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Posted by luigy: Will I be able to listen to the music that I have been backing up on hard drives like I do with the 95, and how about MKV movies, etc?

quote name="vinnie97" url="/t/1428214/official-oppo-bdp-103-bdp-105-anticipation-thread/810#post_22435125"]
Of course.[/quote]

So what was all this talk I read a couple of days ago that because of Cinavia I would not be able to do so? I would like to give this player a chance, but that means giving up the 95 and I don't want any surprises in the near future

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post #835 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 08:06 AM
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When using multichannel analog outs can the subwoofer distance in speaker setup menu be set farther than the mains or is it still limited like 93/95?

Vinod
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post #836 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinodk View Post

When using multichannel analog outs can the subwoofer distance in speaker setup menu be set farther than the mains or is it still limited like 93/95?

My notes show that restriction was lifted on the 93/95 in firmware 46-0428, which was in May 2011. Are you seeing different behavior on your player?

-Bill
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post #837 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 08:28 AM
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Did not realize that this was changed in 93/95. That's one of the reason I stayed away 93/95 due to limitation of sub/main delay setup. Great to hear that this has been improved as my subs need to be set farther than mains.

Vinod
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post #838 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinodk View Post

Did not realize that this was changed in 93/95. That's one of the reason I stayed away 93/95 due to limitation of sub/main delay setup. Great to hear that this has been improved as my subs need to be set farther than mains.

FWIW, distance settings on subs isn't really very important. It's more important that you have them placed correctly to yield best response at your listening position. Those using multiple subs will often tell you that distance settings are useless for subs. Its really only in the mid and high freq ranges that distance settings are easily perceived.
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post #839 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luismanrara View Post

So what was all this talk I read a couple of days ago that because of Cinavia I would not be able to do so? I would like to give this player a chance, but that means giving up the 95 and I don't want any surprises in the near future

Cinavia is only relevant for content that was originally released on BD and is encoded with Cinavia protection. Most is not.
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post #840 of 2833 Old 09-26-2012, 08:46 AM
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I don't see this on the current Oppo BDP-83 listing on the site.
Are the dimensions (particularly depth) of the BDP-83 and BDP-103 the same?
I ordered a -93 (same as -103) MA rsh faceplate, but wondered if the rack bottom plate for it would work from the 83 to 103?

Thanks

Mike

*EDIT*

I found it; however, now I'm worried that the Oppo BDP-83 Middle Atlantic rsh faceplate won't work with the Oppo BDP-103 as -103 is 2 mm taller.eek.gif

Oppo BDP-83 vs -103


Oppo BDP-83
Dimensions: 430mm x 336mm x 77mm, 16-7/8 x 13-1/4 x 3 inches
http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/

Oppo BDP-103
Dimensions: 16.8 x 12.2 x 3.1 inches (430mm x 311mm x 79mm)
http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/

*EDIT 2*

Okay I confused myself.
I ordered the -93 MA rsh faceplate which IS the same as the -103 dimensions!smile.gif

Oppo BDP-93
Dimensions: 430mm x 311mm x 79mm, 16-7/8 x 12-1/4 x 3-1/8 inches
http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-93/
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