Official OPPO BDP-103/BDP-105 Anticipation Thread - Page 52 - AVS Forum
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post #1531 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

To me the inputs on the BDP105 are very important. This lets me use this player as a digital preamp in a small music system when its years as a player in my main system are done. With the Sabre DACs and variety of inputs - HDMI, USB and SPDIF and the excellent Sabre DACs this is as good as high end dedicated DACs costing as much or more.
Just this and a good integrated amp like my Krell 400xi and I have an excellent small system.
Can't wait to get my order in.

I was talking about a multichannel system.

This way, for about 2200$ one can purchase both an universal player (BD-A1020) and a multichannel receiver (RX-A2020). This configuration has all the necessary inputs and from audio point of view the fidelity is quite good.

Lately I’ve noticed that producers that include in their portofolio A/V receivers give up on multichannel analogical outputs for universal players. The reason behind this is quite simple: if the last transformation in the chain (D/A) is made in the receiver then I only need from the player fiability, a good transport; the difficult part been solved in the receiver.

As for Oppo producer, the issue is that their BDPs have to coexist in a system either with a receiver, or with a Pre/Amp.

When HDMI is used for the output of the audio signal what I hear is not only the Oppo transformation, but a DAC receiver that steps in.

All these explain perhaps why Oppo gives such a great importance to analogical outputs, they even add to BDP-105 a headphone output in their attempt to highline the audio chain.

As for using DAC via USB, this means adding a computer to the A/V system which can be useful in some situations. First thing that comes in my mind is LISTENING medici.tv channel not only watching.

Back to the calculation now, by replacing BD-A1020 with BDP-105, the price increases with 750$.

Are the OPPO ‘s DAC integration and multichannel outputs so good that would make me want to get out only analogical signal from BDP to be only amplified in the receiver?

If the answer is yes, then I would have a single D/A transformation and not a chain of several DACs, without mentioning about their integration in different audio levels made by different producers.


Best regards, John
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post #1532 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 03:18 AM
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^ You are talking about the Yamaha BD-A1020 player? I just took a quick look at it on Crutchfield, and the things that pop out immediately are:

1) Only a single HDMI output -- no option to use a two cable hookup

2) Only Stereo Analog outputs -- no multi-channel Analog output

3) 2 USB inputs instead of 3

4) No inputs at all. Nada. Zilch. None.

5) No built in memory in support of BD-Live functionality. You have to use up a USB port with external memory if you want to use BD-Live features.

6) No mention of DVD 24p Conversion or of 2D to 3D conversion.

7) 1 Year warranty (in US) vs. 2 Years for the 103/105. This may be a non-issue in Europe due to European minimum warranty laws.

I don't know what its range of support is for media files. They specifically do mention support for high bit rate FLAC, MP3 and WMA but you should check what else they support, and what the limitations are. When it comes to media file support, the devil is in the details.

They mention DLNA support, but no mention of DLNA *RENDERER* support nor of SMB networked disc access support.

(Also note that Crutchfield has not actually received the product yet, so the specs they are posting are as they come from Yamaha, i.e., not yet verified independently by Crutchfield.)
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post #1533 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 03:55 AM
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I'm talking about an A/V system.

Is BD-105 usable without a receiver or Pre / Amp?

It is important to have input into player as long as I hear the sound that is finally processed in a receiver?

Everything you mentioned there is in the receiver! Who cares if I have facilities in the player as long as the digital sound (PCM) goes into the receiver? The last transformation, the analog one, is made in the receiver!

BDP-103/105's facilities are justified ONLY if I use analog outputs! Is it worth?

If you use (BDP-105, RX-A1010)(2300$) do you get something similar (BD-A1020, RX-2020)(2150$)? That is the question!

I'm not against Oppo or taking Yamaha's side..
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post #1534 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 05:08 AM
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Only you can know what's important to you.

It sounds like you want to use HDMI Audio, in which case the 103 is the correct choice. Compared against that Yamaha player you were quoting above, the small price difference seems quite worth it to me for the 103, but again, that's something you'll have to decide yourself.

The issue of what gets done in the Source device(s) and what gets done in a Receiver will never be resolved. Some folks prefer a Receiver that "does everything". Others prefer a simpler Receiver, or a pre-amp processor under the theory that a Receiver that "does everything" is also likely to become out-dated faster (can't keep up with all the changes) and is more expensive to replace.

If what you are really after here is whether you should use Analog audio from the player or HDMI audio, my recommendation is that you use HDMI audio (i.e., get a 103) unless you intend to get serious about an all-Analog audio path. I.e., no receiver at all.

Now there are extra features of the 105 that might be attractive to you such as its digital inputs or Headphone output. But the MAIN reason to get a 105 would be if you want to have an all-Analog audio path -- either now, or at least retain the option to try that at some point down the road. The 103 has analog outputs as well, and they are very good. But the 105 is in a different class for Analog audio.

Obviously, if you want to retain THE OPTION to try multi-channel Analog audio and see for yourself, that Yamaha player won't do. It only offers Stereo Analog output.
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post #1535 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alephc View Post

I'm talking about an A/V system.
Is BD-105 usable without a receiver or Pre / Amp?
It is important to have input into player as long as I hear the sound that is finally processed in a receiver?
Everything you mentioned there is in the receiver! Who cares if I have facilities in the player as long as the digital sound (PCM) goes into the receiver? The last transformation, the analog one, is made in the receiver!
BDP-103/105's facilities are justified ONLY if I use analog outputs! Is it worth?
If you use (BDP-105, RX-A1010)(2300$) do you get something similar (BD-A1020, RX-2020)(2150$)? That is the question!
I'm not against Oppo or taking Yamaha's side..

It sounds like you want a 103 or the yamaha. Both are probably nice players, the yamaha being 100 bucks cheaper. I"d go the 103 route. Better customer support is worth it alone even if you don't care about the extra features Bob lists.
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post #1536 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 06:11 AM
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The question remains:

If you use (BDP-105, RX-A1010)(2300$) do you get something similar (BD-A1020, RX-2020)(2150$)?
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post #1537 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 06:18 AM
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I give up.
--Bob

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post #1538 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alephc View Post

I'm talking about an A/V system.
Is BD-105 usable without a receiver or Pre / Amp?
It is important to have input into player as long as I hear the sound that is finally processed in a receiver?
Everything you mentioned there is in the receiver! Who cares if I have facilities in the player as long as the digital sound (PCM) goes into the receiver? The last transformation, the analog one, is made in the receiver!
BDP-103/105's facilities are justified ONLY if I use analog outputs! Is it worth?
If you use (BDP-105, RX-A1010)(2300$) do you get something similar (BD-A1020, RX-2020)(2150$)? That is the question!
I'm not against Oppo or taking Yamaha's side..

You are new and you are asking members to take time out their day to read and write responses to your questions...that should mean a respectful level of appreciation for people providing answers and advice (which ultimately you may not agree with). I don't see that in your responses to ppl., if you can't be more respectful and appreciative ("That is the question!")..then you won't be a member very long on AVS.

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post #1539 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alephc View Post

The question remains:
If you use (BDP-105, RX-A1010)(2300$) do you get something similar (BD-A1020, RX-2020)(2150$)?

And you may not have an answer that suits your needs, so let this question stand and if ppl have an answer they will provide one and if not, then you won't have an answer to your question.

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post #1540 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I give up.
--Bob

I'll try one more time.

Alephc,

I would pick the reciever that best fits your speakers. The difference between the recievers you list is 110 and 140 watt/channel. Which is a better match to your speakers? This should be your primary consideration. The BD player secondary.

Then select the BD player which better matches your reciever capabiility.

I'm done.
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post #1541 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by glangford View Post

Which is a better match to your speakers? This should be your primary consideration. The BD player secondary.
Then select the BD player which better matches your reciever capabiility.
I'm done.

This is exactly my point.

I will not argue with you about the difference between the RX-A1010 and RX-A2020 because is not a thread for Yamaha.

Thanks.

Good life, and good luck
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post #1542 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by alephc View Post

Sorry for my brief interventions.
Sorry if anyone was offended by the way I exposed my views.
By the way, I do not like marketing intoxication.
Good life, and good luck

OK, I'll bite...

Oppo is sort of the exact opposite of a "marketing-driven Company" - IMHO.

They deliver an exceptional product, for a very reasonable price, and then stand behind it with great support (both on forums like these and via direct communication) and warranty (2-year Warranty on the 103).

As for whether the 105 is worth it - ultimately you'll have to listen and decide for yourself - luckily they know this and offer a 30-day no hassle trial period.

You could also use google to find and read all the accolades given the BDP-95 for sound quality.

The 105 will have the same DACs as the 95 plus, it's rumoured, more advancements that should put it ahead of the BDP-95 in terms of sound quality.

All the digital inputs on the 105 are worth the extra expense for a lot of people - me included.

It can be used as a small AV pre-amp; I plan to run HDMI from my Digital Cable box to it - it will up-convert that signal to 1080p and it will do a great job with the audio from my digital cable box too. But I can also run other digital sources to it - like my squeezebox - again using the exceptional SAbre DACs to do a better job then the squeezebox can do by itself.

In my case, buying the BDP-95 meant I could forgo an expense AV Receiver/preamp upgrade for another few years. I just run analog from my Oppo to the analog ins on my Arcam AVP700 - I love the end result.

If I was wealthy - I would probably spend $10,000 on an AV Pre amp - then it would not matter what BluRay player I had - yet I would still buy the BDP-103 I think (the bdp-105 would then probably be redundant as I would expect the mega-bucks AV pre/pro would have equal or better DACs and so I would run HDMI from the 103 to the AV pre/pro) - for reliability, warranty and support reasons, and maybe for 1080p netflix and vudu interfaces too). So yes, my opinions are all a function of price and value.

I am missing out on auto room correction/equalization but for me the simple controls for speaker setup on the Oppo are sufficient - the sound of DACs is more important, IMHO.

With the BDP-105's digital inputs I can maybe take the AVP700 out of my system completely. That to me is well worth a few hundred dollars more than the price I will get for my BDP-95 on the used market.

The 103 has 2 HDMI inputs too - that alone could make it worth the extra $100 over another brand of BluRay player.

Do you have a digital cable box for TV? Do you want to up-convert SD shows and even the DVD-quality channels to full 1080p? Not many other players can do that at all, and maybe none that can, can do it as well as the Oppo.

If none of this makes any sense stick with the Yamaha stuff.
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post #1543 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by alephc View Post

Sorry for my brief interventions.
Sorry if anyone was offended by the way I exposed my views.
By the way, I do not like marketing intoxication.
Good life, and good luck


and how could I forget - async USB input and a new dedicated headphone amp - crazy the features/cost ratio with the 105...
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post #1544 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by emylly View Post


OK, I'll bite...

Oppo is sort of the exact opposite of a "marketing-driven Company" - IMHO.

Point in fact: Oppo has a marketing budget of ..................... wait for it .................... $0.
scanspeak likes this.
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post #1545 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 11:51 AM
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Now maybe you're right and maybe you're wrong
But I ain't gonna argue with you no more
I've done it for too long.

(Cat Stevens) - Unfortunately still not on SACD, but when he comes we will update the collection for sure.

Farewell
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Now maybe you're right and maybe you're wrong
But I ain't gonna argue with you no more
I've done it for too long.
(Cat Stevens) - Unfortunately still not on SACD, but when he comes we will update the collection for sure.
Farewell


Officer, I'd like to report a hit-and-run Trolling

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post #1547 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 12:21 PM
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I have had a BDP-95 which I sold few days ago in order to purchase either 103 or 105.

My question is whether 103 and/or 105 can output 2ch and mch contents in 2.1 (2ch main & Sub) environment and how with 103 and 105.
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post #1548 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 12:30 PM
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I have had a BDP-95 which I sold few days ago in order to purchase either 103 or 105.

My question is whether 103 and/or 105 can output 2ch and mch contents in 2.1 (2ch main & Sub) environment and how with 103 and 105.

The answer is yes -- for both players. It basically works the same way it does on the 95 (except that there's a difference in the amount of boost you need to apply to the Subwoofer output).

You use the multi-channel Analog outputs -- wiring only the Left Front / Right Front and Subwoofer jacks.

You set the Center and 4 Surround speakers to OFF, Subwoofer to ON, and Left Front / Right Front to Small or Large according to whether you want their lowest bass content to get sent to the Subwoofer or not. If you set them to Large, then they will get all their own bass content and the Subwoofer will only get LFE content from multi-channel tracks. I.e., if you play a 2.0 track such as a CD the Subwoofer will be silent if you have LF/RF set as "Large".

For multi-channel tracks content in the Center and 4 Surround channels will be down-mixed into the Left Front / Right Front outputs.
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post #1549 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The answer is yes -- for both players. It basically works the same way it does on the 95 (except that there's a difference in the amount of boost you need to apply to the Subwoofer output).
You use the multi-channel Analog outputs -- wiring only the Left Front / Right Front and Subwoofer jacks.
You set the Center and 4 Surround speakers to OFF, Subwoofer to ON, and Left Front / Right Front to Small or Large according to whether you want their lowest bass content to get sent to the Subwoofer or not. If you set them to Large, then they will get all their own bass content and the Subwoofer will only get LFE content from multi-channel tracks. I.e., if you play a 2.0 track such as a CD the Subwoofer will be silent if you have LF/RF set as "Large".
For multi-channel tracks content in the Center and 4 Surround channels will be down-mixed into the Left Front / Right Front outputs.
--Bob

Thanks, Bob.

I am considering to add a Sub, if 103/105 can effectively support 2.1 output for my collection that are mostly 2ch contents. Your example above seem to indicate that 103 can't (sub being silent) while 105 would, if I utilize 2 sets of deducated 2ch Preamp output as I did with 95 when I had a Sub.

Did I understand you correctly?
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post #1550 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardkim View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The answer is yes -- for both players. It basically works the same way it does on the 95 (except that there's a difference in the amount of boost you need to apply to the Subwoofer output).
You use the multi-channel Analog outputs -- wiring only the Left Front / Right Front and Subwoofer jacks.
You set the Center and 4 Surround speakers to OFF, Subwoofer to ON, and Left Front / Right Front to Small or Large according to whether you want their lowest bass content to get sent to the Subwoofer or not. If you set them to Large, then they will get all their own bass content and the Subwoofer will only get LFE content from multi-channel tracks. I.e., if you play a 2.0 track such as a CD the Subwoofer will be silent if you have LF/RF set as "Large".
For multi-channel tracks content in the Center and 4 Surround channels will be down-mixed into the Left Front / Right Front outputs.
--Bob

Thanks, Bob.

I am considering to add a Sub, if 103/105 can effectively support 2.1 output for my collection that are mostly 2ch contents. Your example above seem to indicate that 103 can't (sub being silent) while 105 would, if I utilize 2 sets of deducated 2ch Preamp output as I did with 95 when I had a Sub.

Did I understand you correctly?
Nope, you can make it work for both. For the 103 you only have multi-channel Analog outputs and you set them up with LF/RF set to "Small" if you want 2.0 content to get bass steered to the Sub output.

You do the same thing in the 105. In addition, just as in the 95, the 105 offers the option to use its Dedicated Stereo Analog outputs in place of the normal LF/RF outputs of the multi-channel set. So if you don't need to wire them separately you can use them for improved performance on the LF/RF of the multi-channel set.

(psssst. This is just between you and me, OK? I'm not really supposed to talk about the 105 yet.)
--Bob

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post #1551 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 02:56 PM
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(Cat Stevens) - Unfortunately still not on SACD, but when he comes we will update the collection for sure.

SACD of Tea for the Tillerman was released last December.

http://www.amazon.com/Tea-Tillerman-Cat-Stevens/dp/B005VEQR0W/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1349560474&sr=1-1&keywords=tea+for+the+tillerman+sacd
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post #1552 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 03:13 PM
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Nope, you can make it work for both. For the 103 you only have multi-channel Analog outputs and you set them up with LF/RF set to "Small" if you want 2.0 content to get bass steered to the Sub output .... --Bob

Thanks again, Bob

My main speakers go down to 29 Hz with little or no distortion, and wish to use Sub(2) for 32 Hz and down. Does 103/105 offer this level (i.e 32 Hz) of crossover control? I thought lowest crossover setting was 40 Hz with 95, and that setting apply to SW output, right?

If I set FL/FR to "small", what is the lowest frequency signal passed to FL/FR output?
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post #1553 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by edwardkim View Post

Thanks again, Bob
My main speakers go down to 29 Hz with little or no distortion, and wish to use Sub(2) for 32 Hz and down. Does 103/105 offer this level (i.e 32 Hz) of crossover control? I thought lowest crossover setting was 40 Hz with 95, and that setting apply to SW output, right?
If I set FL/FR, what is the lowest frequency signal is passed to FL/FR output?

You should always set your crossover with some overlap so 40 or even 50 Hz as the crossover setting would be fine. 32 Hz would not really provide enough overlap from everything I have read. 10-15 DB is usually recommended. I also suspect your speakers are starting to roll off a bit above the 29 Hz claimed low anyway. I have mains that go down to 27 hz (+/- 2 db) and I set my crossover at 40 for my older Oppo player. Sounds fine.

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post #1554 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 04:37 PM
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You should always set your crossover with some overlap so 40 or even 50 Hz as the crossover setting would be fine. 32 Hz would not really provide enough overlap from everything I have read. 10-15 DB is usually recommended. I also suspect your speakers are starting to roll off a bit above the 29 Hz claimed low anyway. I have mains that go down to 27 hz (+/- 2 db) and I set my crossover at 40 for my older Oppo player. Sounds fine.

Thanks JazzGuyy,

That is a good point about setting crossover to overlap between Main and Sub.

Could you answer my the other question of "If I set Main to "small", what is the lowest frequency signal be passed to Main? Is output to Main affected by crossover setting?
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post #1555 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 04:48 PM
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Since I don't have this particular unit, I will leave it to someone else who has one to answer that question. I would think the answer might be in your user's manual or in the FAQ which is in the first post for this thread.

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post #1556 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 05:02 PM
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as far as having a real 'control' app or second screen, couldn't oppo just run something like vortexbox and then let people use existing apps for control like mPad or mPod?

I'm thinking about getting an Auraliti music server but basically I'd be paying $700 only for a better way to manage my own music and send it to the Oppo105 when I'd rather just use the Oppo to do it in the first place.
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post #1557 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 05:05 PM
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Hello All,
Could someone please tell me what this asynchonious usb input is and how one can use it? I think it means I can connect a laptop to it and get pristine24/192 music from the computer...This then, would also mean that I would need to run a long usb cable from my rack, to my sitting area where i woould use the laptop...So in my mind, that would blow for me..Could one plug a flashdrive into the player and get the same music fed into the player? .So I will ask you all to school me on this. I am planning on buying the 105 as an upgrade to my bdp83 se...mostly because of the balanced outputs, digital inputs and an overall hope that it will sound even better than the 83se. Thanks in advance for your replies and knowledge, Pete
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post #1558 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 05:24 PM
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You can just look up how a USB DAC works and it's the same exact thing. You can plug your laptop or whatever computer into the 105 usb port and play music basically using the Oppo as your sound card (only much better). And the asynch part is the same as the high-end high-level USB DACs out right now.

You can just plug a usb drive or any other usb hard drive into and and play music right from it. When the oppo starts you just hit the (MUSIC) icon then if you have a blu- ray disk and a usb drive connected to it it will show both on the screen, so you select the hard drive and then pick whatever song or album you want to play.
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post #1559 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 06:29 PM
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Finally read the whole thread (took several weeks due to limited time/life happens). Overall, a great thread with lots of useful information. Hard to imagine better on-line support than you get right here - world class.

Really excited to try the 105 when it comes out. Sounds like DLNA rendering will make a huge improvement in usability. I've pre-ordered one and live near the OPPO US HQ so sure hope to have it by Christmas!

OK, here are my predictions for 105 features that have yet to be disclosed:
Apple support: ALAC and maybe even AIFF support
Tubes: The headphone amplifier will be tube driven

No inside information, just picking up on some comments made in the thread. I'm staying away from apple proprietary formats, but tubes are always a welcome addition. Any one else care to speculate? Bob, Neuro, gsr, rd, jump right in smile.gif

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post #1560 of 2833 Old 10-06-2012, 08:11 PM
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Well it took a LONG time to figure it out but I got SMB working. It turns out it is Windows Live Mail which is a part of Windows Live Essentials. Although that is the only component of Windows Live Essentials I use or installed if I install that I can't access SMB from the Oppo. Strangely it works when it is first installed but after about 10 minutes you can't access the SMB folders any more. While this program doesn't interfere with my mac, scanner or other pcs from accessing my smb files, it does effect the oppo - probably because you don't enter a path on the Oppo. Thanks everyone who tried to get this working for me. I haven't tried the SMB yet, I just posted the second I got the thing working!
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