Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 181 - AVS Forum
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post #5401 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 12:59 PM
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How would one play amazon premium on the oppo 103?
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post #5402 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

How would one play amazon premium on the oppo 103?

Roku Streaming Stick.

-Bill


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post #5403 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

How would one play amazon premium on the oppo 103?

There is an Amazon Instant Streaming app for the optional ROKU Streaming Stick which plugs into the front HDMI port and connects separately to Wifi in your house. See the OPPO Digital web site, as they offer it at a discount if you are interested.
--Bob


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post #5404 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Recstar24 View Post

Try hdmi2 output from the oppo. It has better handshake performance because it doesn't go through the QDEO chip. You will still get improvement from your cable box because the mediatek chip is the one doing the upscaling and up converting. Hdmi1 has a more complex signal path due to the QDEO chip which can lead to more handshake issues. Hdmi2 is preferred by a few as well as they find the QDEO processing to be too much.

You are THE MAN. After I read your post I went to the back of my AV rack for the eighteen hundredth time in the last few days (thank God for wheels) and did exactly as you stated and IT WORKED. I would love to be able to say that the difference in PQ is dramatic but alas I cannot - at least for SD. Perhaps I am expecting miracles (near HD quality on SD channels) which simply is impossible to perform by the Oppo or any other device. I can say though that the HD channels seemed to benefit and appear to be more crisp. By the way, I called Oppo yesterday (before I read your post) and was informed that they are aware of the HDMI 1 issue and are working on a solution. As many have said before: great customer service.

Thanks for your help!
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post #5405 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

This can also happen if your Display or AVR mistakenly applies its RGB Video Level vs. RGB PC Level input configuration setting to YCbCr input. All YCbCr input *SHOULD* be treated in the same fashion as RGB Video Level, but incorrectly applying this setting to both RGB and YCbCr input is a fairly common bug.

By my testing, both HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 are putting out correct levels for YCbCr 4:2:2.

Some of this stuff can be frustrating to track down -- e.g., the bizarre discovery on some Samsung displays that they alter black levels for no good reason simply because the input is 1080p/24 instead of 1080p/60. It simply comes down to trying the different combos until you identify where the gotchas might be in your video chain. There's no logic to this stuff of course. They are just bugs, and bugs don't exist for logical reasons. You just try the combos and see. For example there's no logical reason why the Kuro sets, as good as they are, should prefer RGB input. It just shows that even sets that good can have bugs.
--Bob

Bob: I agree that the up sampling problem can occur anyplace in the chain from player thru to and including the TV itself. The primary reason (in my case) that causes me to believe it's the Oppo causing the problem is that my chain is identical after the data leaves the player. Player HDMI out > Lumagen Radiance (identical settings for input and output as well as same cables and input on Radiance) HDMI out > Elite 70X5 (always in THX mode). This setup passes the S&M Chroma Multiburst high frequency horizontal test for all the color spaces and bit rates if HDMI 1 is used from the 103. The Oppo 83 that the 103 replaced passed as well with the same setup. When I switch to HDMI 2 to improve sharpness etc. I definitely see an improvement BUT HDMI 2 output (all color spaces and bit rates) fails the S&M test. 422 comes closest to passing but actual real world tests using the S&M Montage (VERY familiar with this) has a very visible reduction in color luminance. Muted, dull or dim have been used to describe it relative to HDMI 1 output. In short, the only difference between passing and failing is whether the player output is HDMI 1 or HDMI 2. The QDEO chip causes softness IMO but fixes the color problem.
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post #5406 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

How would one play amazon premium on the oppo 103?

Buy a Kindle Fire HD

BDP103>SR7007>55"ES8000
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post #5407 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

This can also happen if your Display or AVR mistakenly applies its RGB Video Level vs. RGB PC Level input configuration setting to YCbCr input. All YCbCr input *SHOULD* be treated in the same fashion as RGB Video Level, but incorrectly applying this setting to both RGB and YCbCr input is a fairly common bug.

By my testing, both HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 are putting out correct levels for YCbCr 4:2:2.

Some of this stuff can be frustrating to track down -- e.g., the bizarre discovery on some Samsung displays that they alter black levels for no good reason simply because the input is 1080p/24 instead of 1080p/60. It simply comes down to trying the different combos until you identify where the gotchas might be in your video chain. There's no logic to this stuff of course. They are just bugs, and bugs don't exist for logical reasons. You just try the combos and see. For example there's no logical reason why the Kuro sets, as good as they are, should prefer RGB input. It just shows that even sets that good can have bugs.
--Bob

Fully agree Bob.

I have a JVC X75 and it appears to give better results in RGB mode just like my Kuro did.

They all look good to me ( Colour spaces) when calibrated, though have not done one then change color space to see what happens. Anyway I digress. I went with RGB on X75 as I get clipping using YCbCr and not with RGB video levels using the S&M disc clipping screen.

I think the Chroma burst was also better using RGB as I think one of the panes/windows was not as good using YCbCr.
So agree, use what is best for your device and appears the JVC likes RGB better. I had an HD750 previously and had it on RGB. Decided to try YCbCr to minimise conversions as most specialty processing chips ( ABT,Reon, and QDEO I believe) convert to 4:2:2 then see what processing needs to be done and then convert back to negotiated colorspace. Keeping at 4:2:2 minimizes risk of bad conversions caused by bugs. Anyway, my JVC is much happier with RGB.
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post #5408 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 02:59 PM
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I read claims that the Pioneer Kuro looks best on RGB.
Confused- but isn't that a setting going out to a PC type screen?

And also, My Kuro accepts 4:4:4 I would think that to be the best signal to send it.
Is it more common to send 4:2:2 regardless?

Thanks guys.
Learning as I go.
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post #5409 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jerreed View Post

You are THE MAN. After I read your post I went to the back of my AV rack for the eighteen hundredth time in the last few days (thank God for wheels) and did exactly as you stated and IT WORKED. I would love to be able to say that the difference in PQ is dramatic but alas I cannot - at least for SD. Perhaps I am expecting miracles (near HD quality on SD channels) which simply is impossible to perform by the Oppo or any other device. I can say though that the HD channels seemed to benefit and appear to be more crisp. By the way, I called Oppo yesterday (before I read your post) and was informed that they are aware of the HDMI 1 issue and are working on a solution. As many have said before: great customer service.

Thanks for your help!

To see what the player can really do with SD-DVD requires two things:

1) Your display has to be well calibrated. The difference between "right" and "nearly right" will be *MORE* noticeable when playing SD-DVDs. Issues with display calibration will mask what the player is doing.

2) You have to pick quality SD-DVDs to play in the first place. There is no margin for error given the resolution and the type of compression used, so sloppiness in the production of the transfer to disc *WILL* be visible as lower quality. And once the damage is done in the authoring, there's nothing any technology can do to undo that. The information has already been lost.

Making a good SD-DVD transfer is almost an art form. There are decisions that have to be made and plenty of opportunities to screw it up. The amazing thing is just how good SD-DVD can look when everything is done right.
--Bob


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post #5410 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bokes View Post

I read claims that the Pioneer Kuro looks best on RGB.
Confused- but isn't that a setting going out to a PC type screen?

And also, My Kuro accepts 4:4:4 I would think that to be the best signal to send it.
Is it more common to send 4:2:2 regardless?

Thanks guys.
Learning as I go.

No, although computer screens usually do take RGB, its utility is not limited to computer graphics (or computer games). But RGB comes in two flavors -- OPPO calls them RGB Video Level and RGB PC Level -- and there really is benefit to setting things up to use RGB Video Level if you are going to use RGB video format.

The data on disc is YCbCr. To be precise it is what's called YCbCr 4:2:0. RGB format includes three values for every pixel -- a Red, a Green, and a Blue brightness. YCbCr also uses three values -- a gray scale brightness called Luma (Y) and two "color difference" components (Cb and Cr) which tell how much Blue and Red, respectively, to add or subtract from that gray. If you pull all the Blue and Red from a gray pixel, what's left is a Green pixel. The two formats are essentially interchangeable ways to represent the same image.

So why use the more confusing YCbCr format? Because the eye is less sensitive to fine detail in color than in black and white. The encoding scheme for broadcast video (including cable and satellite) and for video on disc (including SD-DVD and Blu-ray) USES that fact in a cunning scheme to reduce the data rate -- less space on disc, and, equally important, less bit rate to read the data OFF the disc.

YCbCr 4:2:0, you see, means that color information occurs in the image stream only HALF as often horizontally AND vertically as gray scale information! This is a type of in-frame compression that is applied before things like MPEG or VC1 encoding get their hands on the video and try to do additional compression based on the fact that successive frames of video are more similar than different -- so you only need to record the changes.

And that's why YCbCr is used. If you want to record color less frequently than gray scale then you need a format which SEPARATES OUT the color information from the gray scale information!

Of course before the pixels can light up on your display every pixel needs to have its own color value assigned.

That means the YCbCr 4:2:0 on the disc has to be interpolated for color -- assigning the missing color values according to the included color values of adjacent pixels. Think of it as a type of upscaling, just like going from SD to HD resolution -- except in this case it is just happening for color.

There are two pieces to this. The recreation of the missing vertical color values raises YCbCr 4:2:0 to YCbCr 4:2:2. The recreation of the missing color information horizontally across each line of video raises YCbCr 4:2:2 to YCbCr 4:4:4. Both pieces have to happen before the pixels can light up. The player ALWAYS does the first piece (because it can't assume the device downstream can buffer multiple lines of video). But the second piece could be done EITHER in the player or in some subsequent device, like your display. Theoretically the result is identical either way.

But the physical display elements typically need R, G, and B values to drive them. And so another step is converting YCbCr 4:4:4 to RGB. (RGB always has all three components for every pixel, so it is equivalent to YCbCr 4:4:4 in data content.)

If everything is working correctly, it should make NO DIFFERENCE whether the player is set to output YCbCr 4:2:2, YCbCr 4:4:4, or RGB Video Level. They should be interchangeable.

The fact that the Kuro displays seem to work better when fed RGB Video Level thus suggests there is a bug in their internal video processing affecting YCbCr input.
--Bob
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post #5411 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

Bob: I agree that the up sampling problem can occur anyplace in the chain from player thru to and including the TV itself. The primary reason (in my case) that causes me to believe it's the Oppo causing the problem is that my chain is identical after the data leaves the player. Player HDMI out > Lumagen Radiance (identical settings for input and output as well as same cables and input on Radiance) HDMI out > Elite 70X5 (always in THX mode). This setup passes the S&M Chroma Multiburst high frequency horizontal test for all the color spaces and bit rates if HDMI 1 is used from the 103. The Oppo 83 that the 103 replaced passed as well with the same setup. When I switch to HDMI 2 to improve sharpness etc. I definitely see an improvement BUT HDMI 2 output (all color spaces and bit rates) fails the S&M test. 422 comes closest to passing but actual real world tests using the S&M Montage (VERY familiar with this) has a very visible reduction in color luminance. Muted, dull or dim have been used to describe it relative to HDMI 1 output. In short, the only difference between passing and failing is whether the player output is HDMI 1 or HDMI 2. The QDEO chip causes softness IMO but fixes the color problem.

Seriously, there's something going on here you haven't spotted. Last I checked, there's no such problem with 4:2:2 output on HDMI 2.
--Bob


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post #5412 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Occasionally someone gives the impression that the Netflix feature in the OPPO is a critical application. I've never understood that.

I'm certainly not in that camp. smile.gif I have a Roku and an Apple TV that I use for streaming, and never even used my previous Blu-ray player for that because it just wasn't as good at it. But I thought that, given what the Oppo does for DVDs, perhaps streaming through its own dedicated Netflix app could help the streaming too. Was surprised that it didn't seem so.

Your point that the Netflix app takes over the machine certainly seems true. I wish l could still access the player controls like resolution and have the screensaver work when pausing Netflix!
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Originally Posted by thirdkind View Post

HDMI 1 set to 1080p has obvious noise reduction and motion artifacts on Netflix and Vudu. Try HDMI 1 set to Source Direct, which bypasses the QDEO processing and is about as good as my PS3. I was surprised at the difference.

Whatever Oppo is doing by default with QDEO on streaming content needs to be disabled or given a setting so users can disable it. HD streams that are actually very good are being completely ruined by excessive DNR.

Wow, thanks for that tip on Source Direct! That makes a world of difference. Suddenly the Netflix quality was comparable to what I get from the Apple TV. (I have the HDMI 1 sharpness at +1.) Curiously, I had tried Netflix through HDMI 2, and didn't see the same improvement, but I think I may have had HDMI 2 sharpness at 0.

I'm surprised that the Qdeo processing degrades the streaming so much more than it does for DVDs and Blu-rays (I love what it does with discs). At least it appears that way to me. Admittedly, some of the streams where I've really noticed the issue were sub-par streams to begin with - so perhaps that's the difference. Or perhaps the player can't control the Qdeo in the same way running the Netflix app as it can playing discs?

Anyway, the fact that bypassing the Qdeo helps Netflix so much seems to belie the idea that the Netflix app is simply inferior to those in other devices. This seems to put the blame back on the Qdeo settings.

I haven't watched a whole movie on Vudu on the Oppo, but have previewed several, and didn't notice the same degree of degradation there. Again, it may be that higher quality video doesn't get negatively affected to the same degree.

Bottom line - I'm still extremely happy with the Oppo, as I will primarily use it for discs, and it really excels at that. And I'm encouraged that Oppo is so good at improving their firmware. It gives me hope that things will only get better.
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post #5413 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 04:50 PM
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I think the Oppo does send identifying information. As I mentioned previously, I am on Windows 8 and when I look at Multimedia Devices under Hardware and Sound > Devices and Printers it specifically lists my devices as 1080p Plasma TV, Oppo BDP-105, SC-68. I didn't enter any of this information so it must have gotten it from the devices themselves. I am using a Homegroup and this may affect things.

I know the BDP 83 does not show up only as an unknown device. I am about 250 dollars shy of getting the 103. Every thing on my network shows up except the 83. I suspect that the 83 can not display any ID. This is why it shows up as a unknown device. My onkyo was not on that screen so I clicked on the add device button and it was in the window that popped up I just clicked on it to install and windows went out and got the driver it needed for it. Now it is in my device list.
I just recently, after two years of ownership, figured out how to get the OPPO 83 to stream things from my computer as I could never find it to give it permission. I seen the unknown device in the list and decided to allow and see what happens. Now it works.

"You lose it in here you're in a world of hurt"
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post #5414 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jerreed View Post

You are THE MAN. After I read your post I went to the back of my AV rack for the eighteen hundredth time in the last few days (thank God for wheels) and did exactly as you stated and IT WORKED. I would love to be able to say that the difference in PQ is dramatic but alas I cannot - at least for SD. Perhaps I am expecting miracles (near HD quality on SD channels) which simply is impossible to perform by the Oppo or any other device. I can say though that the HD channels seemed to benefit and appear to be more crisp. By the way, I called Oppo yesterday (before I read your post) and was informed that they are aware of the HDMI 1 issue and are working on a solution. As many have said before: great customer service.

Thanks for your help!

Yay! You are the first person I think I've legitimately helped smile.gif I actually have both outputs connected to tv - I prefer hdmi 1 sharpness +1 but when the handshaking drives me crazy i switch to hdmi2. I use the QDEO for bluray and sometimes use the hdmi2 for my cable.
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post #5415 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes View Post

I read claims that the Pioneer Kuro looks best on RGB.
Confused- but isn't that a setting going out to a PC type screen?

And also, My Kuro accepts 4:4:4 I would think that to be the best signal to send it.
Is it more common to send 4:2:2 regardless?

Thanks guys.
Learning as I go.


If everything is working correctly, it should make NO DIFFERENCE whether the player is set to output YCbCr 4:2:2, YCbCr 4:4:4, or RGB Video Level. They should be interchangeable.

The fact that the Kuro displays seem to work better when fed RGB Video Level thus suggests there is a bug in their internal video processing affecting YCbCr input.
--Bob
Here is one data point for what it's worth. We have an 8G 6010 Kuro that's recently been recalibrated by Jeff Meier (UMR at AVS) with our BDP-93 set to output YCbCr 4:4:4. He found no reason to change that setting.

Calibration Resources:

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post #5416 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by paul355 View Post

Wow, thanks for that tip on Source Direct! That makes a world of difference. Suddenly the Netflix quality was comparable to what I get from the Apple TV. (I have the HDMI 1 sharpness at +1.) Curiously, I had tried Netflix through HDMI 2, and didn't see the same improvement, but I think I may have had HDMI 2 sharpness at 0.

The Sharpness setting has no effect when you use Source Direct. All those picture settings, which are controlled by QDEO, are bypassed.

I'm also at a loss as to why HDMI 2 is noticeably inferior to HDMI 1 Source Direct.
Quote:
I haven't watched a whole movie on Vudu on the Oppo, but have previewed several, and didn't notice the same degree of degradation there. Again, it may be that higher quality video doesn't get negatively affected to the same degree.

My experience is the same. This is why I suspect the QDEO's processing is adaptive, responding with more aggressive noise reduction on what it perceives to be noisier sources.

Truth be told, lots of Netflix content could benefit from some slight noise reduction, so I wish I could have some control over it, but given the choice between the current level of noise reduction and an unprocessed Netflix stream, I'll take the unprocessed stream every time.


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post #5417 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Here is one data point for what it's worth. We have an 8G 6010 Kuro that's recently been recalibrated by Jeff Meier (UMR at AVS) with our BDP-93 set to output YCbCr 4:4:4. He found no reason to change that setting.

I think it depends on the model year. I have a Kuro 500M, which is one of the last produced, and its handling of YCbCr is broken. Based on the S&M chroma test patterns, there are good reasons to choose either RGB or YCbCr 4:2:2; both involve compromises. I ended up with YCbCr 4:2:2. 4:4:4 is the most broken on the 500M, though.


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post #5418 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 08:25 PM
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I love my sharpness at +1.

+1. Picture is popping goodness at sharpness +1! Watching Episode IV was simply stunning!

Living life in High Definition!
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post #5419 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 09:00 PM
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New topic...

I was watching a blu ray (Dark Knight Rises). About 2/3 through the main speakers started turning off. The center and rears seemed to have no problem. I paused the blu ray player for 5-10 seconds and then hit play again. The main speakers would come back for a short amount of time (30 second to 2 minutes) and then cut off again. Pause, play, sound, no sound...rinse and repeat.

My setup:

Oppo 103 --> Marantz SR5007 --> Krell KAV-250p (home theater bypass) --> Bryston 9B-SST --> PSB Synchrony One towers

Any ideas? My system is new to me (less than a week old all put together) so any help would be appreciated. I will cross-post this to a few other places.

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post #5420 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 10:14 PM
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Hi:

I have the 105 hooked up to my wireless router along with other devices. The oppo is wired to the router. I'm running Win 7 on my laptop and connect wirelessly to my router. Shouldn't i 'see' the Oppo in Windows 7 along with other devices in my network?

-David

It is there but it is listed as an unknown device and will not show up in your network map. To see it go to:
Control Panel
Network and Internet
Network and Sharing Center
Change Advanced Settings on left side
Scroll down to Media Streaming and click on "choose streaming and media options"
Change drop down box to "show all networks" next to show devices on:
Scroll down list and it will be unknown device. Make sure you set it to allow.
I think the OPPO doesn't send out any identifying information to the network. It might be that OPPO might need certification from Microsoft to do this. This is pure speculation on my behalf as I really don't know but my onkyo receiver is seen by my network and it states that it works with Windows 7.

 

This is all i see ...

 

 

 

 

 

Yet ... in my Netgear router connection map shows the following attached devices:


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers:
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post #5421 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 10:59 PM
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Did some more playing with the sharpness control, and here's the one thing I really hope Oppo does, whatever they conclude is or isn't going on; make the gradations
on the sharpness control more evenly applied.

Right now on my Kuro 9G there's a huge jump between 0 and +1, a significant jump between +1 and +2 and only minor further changes the rest of the way the way to the highest level.

If that was smoothed out, those of us who feel 0 is just a touch soft next to (for example) my trusty BDP-83 could make a subtle adjustment, and not be stuck with
a choice between a bit softer than ideal or an image that edges over into looking processed at times.
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post #5422 of 18478 Old 02-09-2013, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdkind View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Here is one data point for what it's worth. We have an 8G 6010 Kuro that's recently been recalibrated by Jeff Meier (UMR at AVS) with our BDP-93 set to output YCbCr 4:4:4. He found no reason to change that setting.

I think it depends on the model year. I have a Kuro 500M, which is one of the last produced, and its handling of YCbCr is broken. Based on the S&M chroma test patterns, there are good reasons to choose either RGB or YCbCr 4:2:2; both involve compromises. I ended up with YCbCr 4:2:2. 4:4:4 is the most broken on the 500M, though.
That's why I indicated our model Kuro. It seemed likely to me that there were some differences, but I have no way of knowing. I've never had 100% recall for anything but dinner time. wink.gif

Calibration Resources:

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post #5423 of 18478 Old 02-10-2013, 12:04 AM
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I just had my HDD die in my PC...lost so much and only had a portion backed up. Sad story BUT..I have upgraded my PC and started from scratch again. Now I'm having massive head aches with streaming. I've never had a problem before so not sure what I've changed but WMP is being a doodle brain.
I've installed the CCC community codec pack and re-done my library etc and enabled sharing. So far all is well, except all files show up on the Oppo EXCEPT MKV via dlna. The files show up in the WMP library and play fine on the PC.
I've been googling my head off the last 2 days. Removing WMP, trying Shark007 codecs, re-adding library all to no prevail. Any ideas?
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post #5424 of 18478 Old 02-10-2013, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

If you're asking about whether the Oppo should be seen in "Network", apparently it does not... although it clearly gets an IP address assigned (as confirmed by looking at "attached devices" in your router). Going into the Oppo clearly shows an IP address assigned, and going into the router clearly shows it assigned.

Doesn't show up for me in "Network" either, although my other Internet-enabled and connected A/V devices do (i.e. Panny 65VT50 TV, Yamaha RX-V867, and Linksys DMA2100 WMC extenders).

Not a problem.
Actually I am not sure if you are correct. I don't have the Oppo's specs in front of me just now, but I think that it should be able to act as a UPNP/DLNA digital media renderer (DMR) in which case it should be visible to Windows. OTOH if the Oppo only has digital media player (DMP) capability then it would not be obliged to be visible by Windows.
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post #5425 of 18478 Old 02-10-2013, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickydenim View Post

I just had my HDD die in my PC...lost so much and only had a portion backed up. Sad story BUT..I have upgraded my PC and started from scratch again. Now I'm having massive head aches with streaming. I've never had a problem before so not sure what I've changed but WMP is being a doodle brain.
I've installed the CCC community codec pack and re-done my library etc and enabled sharing. So far all is well, except all files show up on the Oppo EXCEPT MKV via dlna. The files show up in the WMP library and play fine on the PC.
I've been googling my head off the last 2 days. Removing WMP, trying Shark007 codecs, re-adding library all to no prevail. Any ideas?

The very best idea is to stop trying to use WMP as a DNLA server. Anything else will work better. Also be aware that with file sharing you can access all files directly from the player via SMB, no DNLA required.
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post #5426 of 18478 Old 02-10-2013, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Seriously, there's something going on here you haven't spotted. Last I checked, there's no such problem with 4:2:2 output on HDMI 2.
--Bob

Glad to see that 422 on HDMI 2 works for you. Some others have reported that at least one color space passes from HDMI 2. I have done every test I can think of and the only one that passes so far from HDMI 2 is if I force the Mediatek to send out 1080i from a 24p source. With this the greens in the pattern disappear but blue is more prominent than from 422 HDMI 1 and viewing of reference material still shows marked reduction in color luminance. Also, the 1080p output from the Radiance is even softer than from HDMI 1 with no added sharpening by the Radiance. Perhaps my 103 is defective but I would think that Oppo would have let me know by now if they couldn't reproduce the problem. I notified them on 1/20 by email. I will contact the Lumagen folks to see if they have access to a 103 which they can test. Thanks
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post #5427 of 18478 Old 02-10-2013, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Sidetracked View Post

Did some more playing with the sharpness control, and here's the one thing I really hope Oppo does, whatever they conclude is or isn't going on; make the gradations
on the sharpness control more evenly applied.

Right now on my Kuro 9G there's a huge jump between 0 and +1, a significant jump between +1 and +2 and only minor further changes the rest of the way the way to the highest level.

If that was smoothed out, those of us who feel 0 is just a touch soft next to (for example) my trusty BDP-83 could make a subtle adjustment, and not be stuck with
a choice between a bit softer than ideal or an image that edges over into looking processed at times.
+1 I went back to using my slow Pioneer 05FD and Sony S1000ES until Oppo figures out what's going on w/ HDMI 1.
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post #5428 of 18478 Old 02-10-2013, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

No, although computer screens usually do take RGB, its utility is not limited to computer graphics (or computer games). But RGB comes in two flavors -- OPPO calls them RGB Video Level and RGB PC Level -- and there really is benefit to setting things up to use RGB Video Level if you are going to use RGB video format.

[snip..snip]

--Bob

Thanks for the great explanation of the different color space settings.

Just to make sure I understand right, is RGB Video 0-255 and RGB PC 16-235 where the later clips values outside that range? Also there shouldn't be any reason for using PC level if one's TV is properly calibrated (that is if one is using RGB instead of YCbCr?
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post #5429 of 18478 Old 02-10-2013, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tal L View Post

Thanks for the great explanation of the different color space settings.

Just to make sure I understand right, is RGB Video 0-255 and RGB PC 16-235 where the later clips values outside that range? Also there shouldn't be any reason for using PC level if one's TV is properly calibrated (that is if one is using RGB instead of YCbCr?

That's backwards. RGB Video Level encodes Black as 16 and Reference White as 235. The values below 16 are the "blacker than black" values, and the values from 236 to 255 are the "peak white" values. The OPPO preserves the entire range from 0-255 with that encoding -- no clipping.

RGB PC Level encodes Black as 0 and Reference White as 255. There's no place to put "blacker than black" or "peak white" values so they are clipped to Black and Reference White.

Video for home theater uses RGB Video Level, which has the same data range as YCbCr (i.e., including "blacker than black" and "peak white" ranges). The data on the discs is YCbCr.

The reason for the two ranges outside of the Black to Reference White range is to provide headroom and footroom for video processing. This avoids artifacts that might occur by putting a hard cutoff at either end. This includes video processing both before the data is put on the disc and during playback.

RGB PC Level is used for computer graphics sent directly to a computer monitor. It doesn't need the extra ranges because the pixel values are being created on the fly by the graphics card instead of being produced through a video chain from film production through to disc transfer through to decoding, processing, and display. RGB PC Level is also used for video games for the same reason. The value of course is that it includes more "steps" between Black and Reference White. But again, video for home theater is encoded using the RGB Video Level = YCbCr format ranges so that's the one you want to use for reproduction, since otherwise the "fewer" steps of the home theater format must get converted to the "more" steps of RGB PC Level -- which produces rounding errors and banding (false contours) -- and any pixels with values in the "blacker than black" or "peak white" ranges get clipped.
--Bob


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post #5430 of 18478 Old 02-10-2013, 09:18 AM
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... Plus, all current commercial Blu-ray, DVD and broadcast TV sources are encoded using 4:2:0 Chroma sub-sampling

I SUPPORT 'FAIR USE'. MY MORALS PREVENT ME FROM HELPING ANYONE WHO OBTAINS COPYRIGHTED CONTENT ILLEGITIMATELY
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