Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 190 - AVS Forum
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post #5671 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by AndrewFG View Post

Understood. So HDMI 2 is the cleanest and most reliable. But for 3D, (and perhaps even for better DVD upscaling), one must use HDMI 1. => Is there no way to have one's cake and eat it?

There's no difference between HDMI-1 and HDMI-2 for either 3D or DVD scaling. HDMI-1 simply adds the Qdeo post-processing.
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post #5672 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

There's no difference between HDMI-1 and HDMI-2 for either 3D or DVD scaling. HDMI-1 simply adds the Qdeo post-processing.

Does qdeo processing apply to both hdmi inputs into the oppo, and is it only outputted via HDMI-1?

I am confused...
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post #5673 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by avswilier View Post

Does qdeo processing apply to both hdmi inputs into the oppo, and is it only outputted via HDMI-1?

I am confused...
Qdeo only applies to HDMI-1

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post #5674 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avswilier View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

There's no difference between HDMI-1 and HDMI-2 for either 3D or DVD scaling. HDMI-1 simply adds the Qdeo post-processing.

Does qdeo processing apply to both hdmi inputs into the oppo, and is it only outputted via HDMI-1?

I am confused...

Yes. QDEO video processing is in the output path to the HDMI 1 output. It applies to all types of video content you might play to the HDMI 1 output -- including both HDMI inputs.
--Bob


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post #5675 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

. . . .

Anyway, while he was working on the 103 for this issue he reviewed the rest of the settings I'd installed to eliminate anything else the player might have been doing or adding, that was unnecessary and/or undesirable (in his mind). In particular, he changed Video Setup -> HDMI Options -> color space (HDMI1 and HDMI2) to YCbCr 4:2:2. This was different from the YCbCr 4:4:4 which is the recommended setting expressed at the front of this thread, and is also the value returned if AUTO is set (since the 65VT50 supports that).

I asked him why he was doing that, and he said that "there is no 4:4:4 source, so the player is simply padding the 4:2:2 input with zero bits to produce 4:4:4 output". By setting the output to match the input it was that much less that the player was doing to process the input in some way.

Ok. He's the expert, and if he says that's "better" (or at the very least not harmful) I'll buy it. So that's how I've been running ever since he finished the calibration early this afternoon... YCbCr 4:2:2.

Now I bring this up because ever since this change was made, I have NOT SEEN THE LIP-SYNC SYMPTOM from any of the HDTV programs I've watched today (from the Linksys DMA2100 WMC extender running through external HDMI input to the 103). This is unheard of in my experience.

. . . .

I suspect you misheard Jeff, as your description of what's going on is pretty much backwards.

The correct part is that no source content is 4:4:4. 4:4:4 means that every pixel has complete color information specified. All sources -- SD-DVD, Blu-ray, Cable/Satellite/Broadcast TV -- employ a type of compression which sends color information less frequently than gray scale information, relying on the fact that the human eye is less able to distinguish fine detail in color than in black and white.

The disc formats use what's called 4:2:0 -- which means that color information is sent half as often as gray scale information BOTH in the horizontal and vertical directions. In essence the black and white picture is washed with color using a fatter brush.

The HDMI cable has to carry either 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 (because it can't be assumed the receiving device is able to buffer more than one line of video at a time so vertical interpolation has to happen before transmission). 4:2:2 means the vertical color information has been reconstituted by interpolation (called color upsampling). But the horizontal color information is still halved in frequency.

In YCbCr, the Y component is the gray scale brightness (Luma) value. The Cb and Cr components are the "color difference" components for Blue and Red, saying how much Blue or Red to add or subtract to the gray pixel to wash it with the right color. If you remove all the Blue and Red you are left with a Green pixel.

YCbCr 4:4:4 sends all 3 components for every pixel. Like this: Y, Cb, Cr, Y, Cb, Cr, Y, Cb, Cr, ... Each "pixel time" includes 3 components -- 8 bits each for Deep Color OFF, making 24 bits total for each pixel.

YCbCr 4:2:2 sends TWO components for every pixel. Like this: Y, Cb, Y, Cr, Y, Cb, Y, Cr, ... Each "pixel time" includes 2 components, with the 3rd component calculated by the receiving end via interpolation (the other half of "color upsampling").

Now, the "bits per pixel" for each pixel time is fixed by the Deep Color format you select. With Deep Color OFF, that's 24 bits per pixel -- REGARDLESS OF THE VIDEO DATA FORMAT. That means each of the 2 components sent for a pixel in YCbCr 4:2:2 has to be 12 bits long. And THAT'S where the padding zeroes come from. I.e., the original component values coming off the disc for Y, Cb, and Cr are just 8 bits. So 4 padding zero bits have to be added to make the component 12 bits long in YCbCr 4:2:2 transmission (with Deep Color OFF).

OK, so much for the padding bits. Now, what about preferring 4:2:2 vs. 4:4:4?

The practical reality is that each and every pixel has to have complete color information assigned before the pixels can light up on the display. So the video stream MUST be color upsampled all the way to 4:4:4 before the pixels can light up.

So the only question is where that happens. It could happen in the player prior to output, in the AVR as the video goes through on the way to your display, or in the display itself. Theoretically IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE where this happens, but it MUST happen.

PRACTICALLY speaking, some AVRs and Displays have quirks (bugs) which cause them to work better when fed one flavor of video data format vs. others. Since we are talking bugs here, there's no logic to when or why this might happen. You just have to check and see what works best with YOUR gear.

NOTE: RGB video data format is always "4:4:4". I.e., there is always complete color information for each pixel in RGB transmission. All 3 components sent each "pixel time".



There should be no difference in the audio/video sync at the outputs of the OPPO according to which output video data format you select. I suspect Jeff made some other adjustments you missed.
--Bob


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post #5676 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewFG View Post

Understood. So HDMI 2 is the cleanest and most reliable. But for 3D, (and perhaps even for better DVD upscaling), one must use HDMI 1. => Is there no way to have one's cake and eat it?

There's no difference between HDMI-1 and HDMI-2 for either 3D or DVD scaling. HDMI-1 simply adds the Qdeo post-processing.

To expand on this a bit, SO LONG AS YOU ARE USING ONLY ONE HDMI OUTPUT, you can freely choose between using HDMI 1 or HDMI 2 output -- with HDMI 1 including the QDEO processing.

HOWEVER, if you are using BOTH HDMI outputs, then the player is set up to prefer HDMI 1 for video and HDMI 2 for audio.
--Bob


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post #5677 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

To expand on this a bit, SO LONG AS YOU ARE USING ONLY ONE HDMI OUTPUT, you can freely choose between using HDMI 1 or HDMI 2 output -- with HDMI 1 including the QDEO processing.

HOWEVER, if you are using BOTH HDMI outputs, then the player is set up to prefer HDMI 1 for video and HDMI 2 for audio.
--Bob

Does that mean I can also set up HDMI-1 output video only to projector, HDMI-2 output video only to a TV, and then in both cases have the audio go via optical out to an amplifier?
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post #5678 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bbar View Post

Ok reran test and this time can confirm that I was in source direct.

So, ran tests with all three color spaces and results same on HDMI1 and HDMI2. There was no difference.

All passed chroma multiburst test except the 4:2:2 color space on both HDMI1 and HDMI2. It failed the vertical test for both HDMI1 and HDMI2.

Not saying it is the player as could very well be the JVC.

Thank you again. I suspect it is the JVC. With the Oppo from HDMI 1 Source Direct connected directly to the Elite, the Elite fails 422 showing almost totally pink for high frequency horizontal. Elite passes 444 and RGB 8 & 10 bit but red luminance in 12 bit vertical high frequency is noticeably increased. Elite fails on all color spaces and bit rates from HDMI 2 Source Direct with everything pink and blue lines barely visible from 1 foot away. Posted the issue on the Lumagen forum last Sunday. They will find a way to determine if the Radiance is the problem. Thanks
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post #5679 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avswilier View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

To expand on this a bit, SO LONG AS YOU ARE USING ONLY ONE HDMI OUTPUT, you can freely choose between using HDMI 1 or HDMI 2 output -- with HDMI 1 including the QDEO processing.

HOWEVER, if you are using BOTH HDMI outputs, then the player is set up to prefer HDMI 1 for video and HDMI 2 for audio.
--Bob

Does that mean I can also set up HDMI-1 output video only to projector, HDMI-2 output video only to a TV, and then in both cases have the audio go via optical out to an amplifier?

Sure, if you really want to. First of all, just set HDMI Audio OFF to disable audio on the HDMI outputs.

Now, if ONLY ONE of the HDMI connections is live at a time then you don't need to do anything special for video. Depending on how your projector and TV implement their HDMI Inputs, the connection to each may turn off when you turn the display off, or when you change the display to a different input. (Some TVs keep their last used HDMI input "live" even when the display is OFF, which complicates things.)

If you want to have BOTH TVs live at the same time then you should set the OPPO to DUAL DISPLAY mode instead of SPLIT A/V. Note that when you do that the OPPO has to output video that will work for BOTH displays. This may be a compromise setting compared to what might work with just ONE display live.

Please note that licensing restricts the type of audio that can be output on the Optical cable. For example, you can't play SACD discs via Optical. For Blu-ray discs, when you select a high bit-rate audio track what will actually go out the Optical cable is the lower bit rate "compatibility" track. For example if you select a Dolby TrueHD 7.1 track from a Blu-ray disc, the Optical cable will carry the "lossy", DD 5.1 compatibility track instead.
--Bob


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post #5680 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Isn't this hissing caused by DC offsets on the players outputs, the reason they AC coupled them? Maybe the output caps have gone bad???

We're checking with our statisticians, but, yes, I think that may be a new meet record in the Standing Conclusion Jump! biggrin.gif

Seriously, it is known that there is no such hardware fault involved in this -- e.g., swapping players won't change anything. The output is simply not compatible for direct connection to the specific power amps these folks have been trying, OR there is an external source of hiss interference which is penetrating their setup, which has not yet been identified/isolated.
--Bob


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post #5681 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 07:19 AM
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How good is the mkv playback? I am looking to replace a 4 year old eGreat media player which is starting to fail on some higher bitrate rips.
How does a 103 fare compared to a dedicated media player like a Dune HD or WDTV Live Hub, when it comes to consistency and ability to play mkvs?
I assume the QDEO could be applied to the mkvs (attached via USB drives) for improved video quality?
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post #5682 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by avswilier View Post

How good is the mkv playback? I am looking to replace a 4 year old eGreat media player which is starting to fail on some higher bitrate rips.
How does a 103 fare compared to a dedicated media player like a Dune HD or WDTV Live Hub, when it comes to consistency and ability to play mkvs?
I assume the QDEO could be applied to the mkvs (attached via USB drives) for improved video quality?

I'm not recalling any problem reports, but neither am I familiar with the Dune or WDTV.

I use MKV for DVD and BR video without issue. This is just basic stuff: the OPPO does not support MKV menus; I'm not sure if the other devices do or not.

VOBSUB subtitles are supported in MKV but PGS/SUP for BR are not.

QDEO: yes, it applies to all inputs.

-Bill


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post #5683 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 08:37 AM
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I'm using an Oppo 103 's analog outs into my Lexicon MC-12Bv5eq 5.1analog input. I need the Oppo to get the latest HD codecs.

I am 95% home theater. Would the better DAC's provided in the Oppo 105 provide any appreciable benefit in sound qualities for movies? I don't listen to enough music to make that a reason to upgrade.

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post #5684 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

I'm using an Oppo 103 's analog outs into my Lexicon MC-12Bv5eq 5.1analog input. I need the Oppo to get the latest HD codecs.

I am 95% home theater. Would the better DAC's provided in the Oppo 105 provide any appreciable benefit in sound qualities for movies? I don't listen to enough music to make that a reason to upgrade.

I would say yes. The fidelity of the better, modern movie tracks really is good enough to be worth the effort. As is usual when reaching for higher quality, the extra cost is not proportionate -- i.e., it won't sound twice as good. But I think you'll hear an "appreciable benefit". And that's despite the fact that the Analog output quality of the 103 itself is really very good indeed.
--Bob


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post #5685 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 08:55 AM
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First impressions:

Good:

Speed and responsiveness, especially when loading overdone BD's. 103 is the only player that properly plays my sort of defected Ratatouille BD. Many others(incl. PS3) failed.
As network media player. SMB works surprisingly well so far.
"Direct Play" for DVD-A.
Zoom modes.
Lots of audio and video formats(containers) supported, including less common combos such as MKV and Hi-Res FLAC.

Meh:

Video processing powers, especially considering the fact how much Oppo likes to brag about it. Seriously, I'm trying very hard but so far I see no improvement on 55" screen vs. output from Denon 3310ci receiver (I think it has old ABT 2010 processor). That goes for signal from HD cable box, playback of video files from USB etc. Netflix streaming too- looks no better that from Sony 380 BDP-S380 player.
3D MKV support. Looks simply bad. Much better results can by achieved by playing those files as "2D" split screen and letting TV do 3D signal processing. But then again- I can send those files to TV in 2D mode via Sony 380(funny-this thing is not even 3D player).




And this will go directly to Oppo: Why is it taking you so long to produce a proper tablet/smartphone app for media playback over network? Again- network player works well but why do i have to turn on and sit in front of TV every time i want to play some music from external HDD or PC?




All in all solid player. But definitely not as close to perfection as you think it will be after you read all those rave reviews here and elsewhere.
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post #5686 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

I'm using an Oppo 103 's analog outs into my Lexicon MC-12Bv5eq 5.1analog input. I need the Oppo to get the latest HD codecs.

I am 95% home theater. Would the better DAC's provided in the Oppo 105 provide any appreciable benefit in sound qualities for movies? I don't listen to enough music to make that a reason to upgrade.

I'll say: No. Absent any consideration of music, the 103 is more than adequate for movie audio. Plus you'd be paying for the digital inputs and headphone amp which you don't seem to need. The $700 could be much better spent on things like room treatments, speakers, etc, and produce much greater benefits.
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post #5687 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

I'm using an Oppo 103 's analog outs into my Lexicon MC-12Bv5eq 5.1analog input. I need the Oppo to get the latest HD codecs.

I am 95% home theater. Would the better DAC's provided in the Oppo 105 provide any appreciable benefit in sound qualities for movies? I don't listen to enough music to make that a reason to upgrade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I would say yes. The fidelity of the better, modern movie tracks really is good enough to be worth the effort. As is usual when reaching for higher quality, the extra cost is not proportionate -- i.e., it won't sound twice as good. But I think you'll hear an "appreciable benefit". And that's despite the fact that the Analog output quality of the 103 itself is really very good indeed.
--Bob

I'm doing it differently--I'm using the HDMI out of the 103 into a Bryston SP3--I figure the Dacs in the SP3 are at least as good as those in either Oppo, and it saves me a whole bundle of extra wires. Like jdlynch, I'm just about all movies in the Oppo.

So, My question for Bob is, would there be any advantage to the 105 over the 103 using either as a transport only?

Thanks

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post #5688 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

I'm doing it differently--I'm using the HDMI out of the 103 into a Bryston SP3--I figure the Dacs in the SP3 are at least as good as those in either Oppo, and it saves me a whole bundle of extra wires. Like jdlynch, I'm just about all movies in the Oppo.

So, My question for Bob is, would there be any advantage to the 105 over the 103 using either as a transport only?

Thanks

Nope, get the 103. The digital audio solution is identical in the 103 and 105. The only conceivable reason to even consider the 105 would be if you also want the Headphone output jack or some of the additional types of digital audio input jacks added in the 105.
--Bob


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post #5689 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 01:05 PM
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Bob- I posted the followng elsewhere on the forum. I would appreciate your comments:

Is there is a difference in gain ( volume) between the analog and digital outs on the 103? I am finding my bass to be lower ( less volume and dynamics) when using analog outs; compared to the same movie scene played through the digital connection. Do I just need to turn up the volume for an equal level match?


I have all speakers set to large as I am using my Lexicon MC-12 for cross-over and bass management.

Thanks,
David

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post #5690 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

Bob- I posted the followng elsewhere on the forum. I would appreciate your comments:

Is there is a difference in gain ( volume) between the analog and digital outs on the 103? I am finding my bass to be lower ( less volume and dynamics) when using analog outs; compared to the same movie scene played through the digital connection. Do I just need to turn up the volume for an equal level match?


I have all speakers set to large as I am using my Lexicon MC-12 for cross-over and bass management.

Thanks,
David

Use a calibration disc to check your volume trim levels, particularly the Subwoofer. With all speakers set to Large the Analog subwoofer output needs +10dB boost external to the player to match the other RCA outputs. While you are at it, check your digital audio output configuration as well as you may have bass too hot on that one.

Also, turn off Setup > Audio Processing > Dynamic Range Control. Some discs have incorrect meta-data which can result in anemic bass if Dynamic Range Control is active. Dynamic Range Control applies when the player is doing the decoding (as for the Analog outputs), so there can be a difference if you are comparing to HDMI Bitstream output since then the AVR is doing the decoding.

When things are set up correctly, the multi-channel Analog outputs should sound identical to what you get on HDMI digital audio for bass and dynamics. NOTE: There may be an over all Volume difference depending on what your AVR does differently for Analog vs. HDMI Digital audio input. So match the main volume both ways before trying to compare them.
--Bob


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post #5691 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Use a calibration disc to check your volume trim levels, particularly the Subwoofer. With all speakers set to Large the Analog subwoofer output needs +10dB boost external to the player to match the other RCA outputs. While you are at it, check your digital audio output configuration as well as you may have bass too hot on that one.

Also, turn off Setup > Audio Processing > Dynamic Range Control. Some discs have incorrect meta-data which can result in anemic bass if Dynamic Range Control is active. Dynamic Range Control applies when the player is doing the decoding (as for the Analog outputs), so there can be a difference if you are comparing to HDMI Bitstream output since then the AVR is doing the decoding.

When things are set up correctly, the multi-channel Analog outputs should sound identical to what you get on HDMI digital audio for bass and dynamics. NOTE: There may be an over all Volume difference depending on what your AVR does differently for Analog vs. HDMI Digital audio input. So match the main volume both ways before trying to compare them.
--Bob

Bob- Just to be clear; I need to boost the sub level by 10 dB to match the other RCA outputs?. Do I do this in my AVR, or, is there a setting in the Oppo to do this? I didn't realize the difference was that great. This would definitely explain the difference I was hearing.

I will also check the other settings you mentioned.

Thanks tremendously for supporting this thread with your time and knowledge!

David Lynch Current Equipment: Marantz AV8801, Proceed HPA3, Parasound HCA-1206, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), Aerial Acoustics LR3's (sides), RBH in-walls (rears), Seaton Submersive, Marantz VP15s1, 106" Carada BW screen, Oppo BDP-103.
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post #5692 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

Thank you again. I suspect it is the JVC. With the Oppo from HDMI 1 Source Direct connected directly to the Elite, the Elite fails 422 showing almost totally pink for high frequency horizontal. Elite passes 444 and RGB 8 & 10 bit but red luminance in 12 bit vertical high frequency is noticeably increased. Elite fails on all color spaces and bit rates from HDMI 2 Source Direct with everything pink and blue lines barely visible from 1 foot away. Posted the issue on the Lumagen forum last Sunday. They will find a way to determine if the Radiance is the problem. Thanks

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post #5693 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Use a calibration disc to check your volume trim levels, particularly the Subwoofer. With all speakers set to Large the Analog subwoofer output needs +10dB boost external to the player to match the other RCA outputs. While you are at it, check your digital audio output configuration as well as you may have bass too hot on that one.

Also, turn off Setup > Audio Processing > Dynamic Range Control. Some discs have incorrect meta-data which can result in anemic bass if Dynamic Range Control is active. Dynamic Range Control applies when the player is doing the decoding (as for the Analog outputs), so there can be a difference if you are comparing to HDMI Bitstream output since then the AVR is doing the decoding.

When things are set up correctly, the multi-channel Analog outputs should sound identical to what you get on HDMI digital audio for bass and dynamics. NOTE: There may be an over all Volume difference depending on what your AVR does differently for Analog vs. HDMI Digital audio input. So match the main volume both ways before trying to compare them.
--Bob

Bob- Just to be clear; I need to boost the sub level by 10 dB to match the other RCA outputs?. Do I do this in my AVR, or, is there a setting in the Oppo to do this? I didn't realize the difference was that great. This would definitely explain the difference I was hearing.

I will also check the other settings you mentioned.

Thanks tremendously for supporting this thread with your time and knowledge!

If you are passing the Analog Subwoofer signal through the AVR then it would be "normal" for the AVR to provide the needed +10dB boost by default. Some AVRs let you set the boost level for different circumstances -- typical choices being 0, +5, +10, and +15dB. In your case +10dB is what's needed but the setting in the AVR may not be set to that. If the AVR doesn't provide the boost for you, then another approach is to adjust the volume knob on the Sub itself, possibly along with LOWERING the AVR's output volume trim for the sub output to compensate and keep your digital audio sources still properly balanced. (Many AVRs don't apply volume trim on the multi-channel Analog signal -- only on stereo Analog or digital audio inputs.)

Again, some time with a calibration disc checking both Analog and HDMI audio from the OPPO is what's needed to clear up any confusion here.
--Bob


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post #5694 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Nope, get the 103. The digital audio solution is identical in the 103 and 105. The only conceivable reason to even consider the 105 would be if you also want the Headphone output jack or some of the additional types of digital audio input jacks added in the 105.
--Bob

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post #5695 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 06:42 PM
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Some .VOB files won't play audio, despite playing audio on my computer. e.g. The Aviator and Disclosure.

- Single uncompressed file created using DVD Shrink.
- HDMI from OPPO going into Harman Kardon AVR 235 (yeah, old but still works great)
- Optical from OPPO going to AVR 235.

Most of my .VOBs play audio fine via HDMI, but I can't figure out why some don't. I figure it's probably trying to play the audio via a different port/stream. On my old Sony DVD player, I could hit a button on the remote to cycle through the various audio choices for a DVD (English, French, Spanish, etc) while the movie was playing. I'm guessing it's something like that that's preventing me from hearing the audio on certain files, but I can't seem to find such a feature with the OPPO that allows me to cycle.

I've cycled through all the various AVR 235 choices (tape, DVD, opt1, opt2, analog, etc) but nothing. I have "secondary audio" enabled on the OPPO.

When using DVD Shrink, I ran into a couple of discs where when finished and played via my OPPO, the bonus material's audio would play instead of the primary movie audio. To solve this, I unselected all of the "AC3 2-ch English" options under the main movie category and just left "5.1 English" checked. If "AC3 5.1-ch" wasn't a choice, I only left the first "AC3 2-ch English" choice that had a file size (some discs had two or three of the same choices in the same main movie category, but had files sizes of zero.) Perhaps that's my problem.

Any ideas?

UPDATE: Per Bill's advice, I ripped to MKV and the audio plays fine. However, that doesn't solve the problem of why certain VOB files will play video but no audio when 5.1 is selected when ripping to VOB and playing back on OPPO.
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Originally Posted by Cryogenix View Post

Some .VOB files won't play audio, despite playing audio on my computer.

- Single uncompressed file created using DVD Shrink.
- HDMI from OPPO going into Harman Kardon AVR 235 (yeah, old but still works great)
- Optical from OPPO going to AVR 235.

Most of my .VOBs play audio fine via HDMI, but I can't figure out why some don't. I figure it's probably trying to play the audio via a different port/stream.

I've cycled through all the various AVR 235 choices (tape, DVD, opt1, opt2, analog, etc) but nothing. I have "secondary audio" enabled on the OPPO.

Any ideas?

There must a difference between the files. There is a free utility called "mediainfo"; does it work with VOB and show any differences between the ones that work and the ones that don't?

-Bill


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post #5697 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 07:10 PM
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Thanks, Bill. Nice little utility.

Here is what it looks like... Aspen Extreme plays fine, The Aviator does not.

BTW, in DVD Shrink, Aspen has "AC3 2-ch English" as the main movie audio, whereas Aviator only has "AC3 5.1-ch English" for an option (that is, aside from "AC3 2-ch French" and "AC3 2-ch English Director's Comment" - both of which I unchecked.) I believe when I first .VOB'd The Aviator, I'd left the "Director Comment" option checked and I got the commentary over the actual movie audio, which is why I unchecked it on the next go. Looks like 5.1 is the issue, but I'm not sure why or how to get it to work. FYI, Disclosure doesn't work and it has the exact same "First Audio Stream" as The Aviator.


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post #5698 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 07:11 PM
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Bill, thanks for your very precise answers. Does 103 support srt. subtitle files for mkv and can it handle srt. files of different languages like Chinese?
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post #5699 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I suspect you misheard Jeff, as your description of what's going on is pretty much backwards.
I suspect you're right, and that my transcription of what I thought I remembered he'd said to written words here didn't come out right.

Quote:
The correct part is that no source content is 4:4:4. 4:4:4 means that every pixel has complete color information specified.
I do remember him making a similar comment, that in the production video-camera and theater projection form it might be 4:4:4, but not in what eventually gets distributed for home use.

Quote:
Now, the "bits per pixel" for each pixel time is fixed by the Deep Color format you select. With Deep Color OFF, that's 24 bits per pixel -- REGARDLESS OF THE VIDEO DATA FORMAT. That means each of the 2 components sent for a pixel in YCbCr 4:2:2 has to be 12 bits long. And THAT'S where the padding zeroes come from. I.e., the original component values coming off the disc for Y, Cb, and Cr are just 8 bits. So 4 padding zero bits have to be added to make the component 12 bits long in YCbCr 4:2:2 transmission (with Deep Color OFF).
Well very definitely I now have BOTH (a) YCbCr 4:2:2 as well as (b) Deep Color OFF.

His goal as he expressed it was to eliminate any unnecessary processing in the player, and to try and deliver the original source data as cleanly and minimally processed as possible to the output.

Quote:
There should be no difference in the audio/video sync at the outputs of the OPPO according to which output video data format you select. I suspect Jeff made some other adjustments you missed. --Bob
No, I'm sure the only adjustments he played with was that video output... setting YCbCr to 4:2:2 and also Deep Color to OFF. I definitely had YCbCr to 4:4:4 before or possibly AUTO, but I can't recall what Deep Color was set to (probably OFF since that's the default).

Anyway, this is PRECISELY why I really posted this information... not to bring up a discussion of 4:4:4 vs. 4:2:2 (and to display my actual lack of true understanding here), but rather to make the point that as unrelated as it might seem to anything audio-related, it appeared that the lip-sync problem I've had for weeks when sending my DVR through the external input of the 103 has disappeared as of yesterday, coupled with this one and only YCbCr change to the setup on my 103.

In other words I agree with you, that this video setting on the 103 should have nothing at all to do with audio output. But who knows what additional processing is related on the video side of the 103's firmware for 4:4:4 that just may end up impacting the performance of the machine and its ability to perfectly handle downmix-to-stereo audio. Remember that I don't see lip-sync problems when sending decoded multi-channel LPCM to HDMI-2 and video-only to HDMI-1 (using "Split A/V:). I only see lip-sync problems when sending downmixed-to-stereo audio out, over either (a) HDMI-1 along with video, or (b) over analog FL/FR output. Also remember that the lip-sync problem starts off non-existent but then grows/accumulates and gets worse are more noticeable over time... almost like some CPU process (say with the downmix-to-stereo) just cannot keep up with source data rate (say, because the CPU might be "maxed out" doing something else simultaneously).

That's often what software bugs turn out to be related to... sometimes completely unrelated to where you've been chasing the logic that seems most relevant. Only after you eventually discover the actual cause of the problem do you (in retrospect) now explain how it was apparently triggered by something seemingly way distant and unrelated, and that the effect of "this other thing" eventually made its way into some logic area that would seem to be disconnected.

And in the category of even harder bugs to find are those that are "timing related" or susceptible to external factors aside from pure program logic. They are very very difficult to reproduce (and therefore debug), at least until you finally find what I like to call the "giant clue". Once found, you can now often reproduce the symptom on-demand, which finally makes it possible to chase down the bug in the lab, and finally fix the program.

Anyway, I still have not seen the lip-sync problem return as of yesterdays change to 4:2:2, but I obviously need to give it more days to be sure I'm not just imagining this. It may just be what I was watching last night, and that I didn't watch one show that lasted long enough for the lip-sync-creep to finally make its appearance visible/audible.

Obviously if other people who've also experienced this annoying lip-sync problem try using 4:2:2 as well, and if they too report apparent solution, then we'll know we're on to something here and can make this new information known to Oppo as obviously the "giant clue".
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post #5700 of 18347 Old 02-16-2013, 09:21 PM
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Yesterday when trying to use the HDMI input in conjunction with HDMI 2 I was getting handshake issues. I tried again today and it is working. I wanted to test out the picture vs HDMI 1. The picture is very similar with what looks like a slight increase in sharpness on HDMI 2. If Marvell has built in noise reduction and based on a lot of negative feedback on its lack of sharpness it seems that using the pure Mediatek decoder would be the best option. Do the majority of owners and reviewers who rave about Marvell use it just for its name recognition? Even the Oppo manual suggests using it as the preferred solution. I like what I see out of HDMI 2 and will probably stick with it.
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