Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 220 - AVS Forum
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post #6571 of 18347 Old 03-13-2013, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I'm still hoping that someone can answer whether the BDP-93 supposedly has the same HDMI 1 softening issue as the BDP-103.

There is no "issue". The output of the Qdeo chips is what it is. The Qdeo in the 93 does some of the same NR, although less noticeable on SD content. In the 103, the NR is more apparent on SD content, but with HD content the difference is negligible. If you don't like it just use HDMI-2.
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post #6572 of 18347 Old 03-13-2013, 08:57 PM
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Just recieved my Oppo 103 Monday and set it up tonight. It's my first experience with the brand. I'm going from a Samsung bargain basement 3D DVD player and my initial impressions are good. I watched the Adele concert on blu Ray and the imagnty and sound were excellent. I watched a couple of a scenes from Iron Man 2. Excellent! I will post more as I get to know the player.
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post #6573 of 18347 Old 03-13-2013, 09:02 PM
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When i push mp3 audio from my laptop to the Oppo via WMP or KooRaRoo(KRR) server, the metadata is corrupted (see below in the Artist & Album fields))

 

But if i access these mp3 files directly from the Oppo, no corruption occurs using either server.

 

Now, when stream(push) FLAC files to the Oppo using the KRR server, metadata doesn't up at all. All the fields are clear. But when access the flac files directly from the Oppo, metadata shows up fine.

 

Any help would be appreciated...


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post #6574 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Josh:
I asked Oppo about this softening issue and was suprised when they told me that even the BDP93/95 has noise reduction embedded in its default settings as well. I was trying to find out why they forced a noise reduction on us in the 103/105 products...
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

There is no "issue". The output of the Qdeo chips is what it is. The Qdeo in the 93 does some of the same NR, although less noticeable on SD content. In the 103, the NR is more apparent on SD content, but with HD content the difference is negligible. If you don't like it just use HDMI-2.

Great point here, rdgrimes! NR is part of 'features' Qdeo was marketed/admired for. For some it's still great. For me Auto processing features like 'Adaptive Contrast Enhancement ' or 'Intelligent Color Remapping' mentioned here, are unacceptable. So, not necessarily 'just use HDMI-2' resolves this moment. A simple 'Source Direct' mode should do the trick bypassing the Qdeo. But......(I sure hope I'm wrong guys, but there's only one way to find out - user/owner tests)
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Now, the suprising thing for me is that NO ONE made an issue about image softening on the 93/95 units at all.

Well, I used 'Source Direct' for almost a year with my BDP-95, and only a few months ago I noticed offset/oversample issue when Source Direct is used with HDMI-1. Now I suspect the fw issue with the Mediatek chip, but still as much as possible test results are needed from you guys to prove me right/wrong. So still appreciate your contribution to resolve the issue mentioned here The reason I posted at 103/105 forums is my hopefully soon 100 series upgrade. Thanx again...
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post #6575 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

I fully understand what you are writing. I am also into DSLR photography and I am sometimes shocked by the differences. Please do not misunderstand, what I was writing. I just wanted to mention that there are differences, if you compare two players.
I am also a happy customer of Oppo and wrote some posts ago, that I will definitely keep the Oppo, even it has some small drawbacks compared to the Denon. But it also has many advantages compared to the 'old' Denon. For me the HDMI 1 output is par with the Denon, nothing to complain here. Except the difference in the sound. That's why I keep both.
Sorry if I missed something with your post but I do agree that there are differences in players, PQ wise, at least the ones I've seen compared to my OPPOs.

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post #6576 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 07:43 AM
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In regards to earlier discussions about the 103 better (or not) audio quality over HDMI. Some point out out that bits are bits and no gain can be achieved from the 103 over any other player. I am not a guru, but my readings point to the contrary. From what I read, and would love that experts here on the forum chime in with opinions, the audio digital bitstream's cadence has an influence on the quality of what is heard.

I believe that the regularity of the audio bits are sent to the DA decoder in our AV receivers makes a difference. In this respect, the 103 compared to other makes and even to its predecessors has an extremely stable clock that delivers the most stable stream of bits. I unfortunatly do not remember which of the reviews I read about the 103 that had graphs showing this, but its out there somewhere.

Again, I am no expert but there seems to be evidence that show that audio sent through HDMI may not be equally good from any player and it might be wrong to think that because its digital it must all be the same.

Any opinions?
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post #6577 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

It has been reported before (search the thread for 3020 or 2020). Oppo have a fix but it's not yet in the official firmware. For now I think you can use HDMI 2 from the Oppo as that doesn't cause the problem. Or decode in the player instead of sending a bitstream.

I don't think it makes any difference whether you use HDMI1 or HDMI2. But anyway until the bugfix comes out, the interim solution is to set up the Oppo to always output its audio in PCM (aka LPCM) rather than "bitstream". (The only downside of this is that you can't see on the receiver front panel what the original audio format was).

( And just so you know: the issue also applies to the Yamaha 820 too (what I have) and 1020 too )
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post #6578 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

When i push mp3 audio from my laptop to the Oppo via WMP or KooRaRoo(KRR) server, the metadata is corrupted (see below in the Artist & Album fields)). But if i access these mp3 files directly from the Oppo, no corruption occurs using either server.

Hmmm. The following is a guess that may or may not be true. My guess is that the bug is due to Unicode text encoding issues. Your meta data tags are embedded in MP3 files in either 8-bit ANSI, or an ISO locale specific 8-bit codeset, or in Unicode (16-bit codeset). When the player opens your music files directly, it reads the tags directly from the file and displays them on screen. Whereas when the player gets the track via UPnP push, then the server is reading the tags from the file, converting the encoding to UTF-8 (a 8-bit plus codeset), and sending that to the player. So it could be that the Oppo doesn't understand UTF-8 too well (??)

=> What country are you in? And do your tags contain accented / non roman characters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Now, when stream(push) FLAC files to the Oppo using the KRR server, metadata doesn't up at all. All the fields are clear. But when access the flac files directly from the Oppo, metadata shows up fine.

Yes. I think the Oppo implementation of UPnP is still a bit buggy. For me, it is interesting to see that your player is showing the album art and choking on the texts, because in my case the texts are fine, but the art is missing.

Anyway, I am personally a bit of an expert in UPnP (I am the author of Whitebear media server), so I intend (when I can find some time) to run the Oppo through my test programs and see if I can find out what is going wrong. If I do find out more (especially if I can see a solution), then I shall report back on this forum and also directly to Oppo service.
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post #6579 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by AndrewFG View Post

Anyway, I am personally a bit of an expert in UPnP (I am the author of Whitebear media server), so I intend (when I can find some time) to run the Oppo through my test programs and see if I can find out what is going wrong. If I do find out more (especially if I can see a solution), then I shall report back on this forum and also directly to Oppo service.
All my audio CD's and DVD-A's are backed up to Flac and stored on my Synology NAS. I can honestly say, I've not had any problems with text or image display via UPnP. All tags were generated/amended using Mp3tag.


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post #6580 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jboileau View Post

In regards to earlier discussions about the 103 better (or not) audio quality over HDMI. Some point out out that bits are bits and no gain can be achieved from the 103 over any other player. I am not a guru, but my readings point to the contrary. From what I read, and would love that experts here on the forum chime in with opinions, the audio digital bitstream's cadence has an influence on the quality of what is heard.

I believe that the regularity of the audio bits are sent to the DA decoder in our AV receivers makes a difference. In this respect, the 103 compared to other makes and even to its predecessors has an extremely stable clock that delivers the most stable stream of bits. I unfortunatly do not remember which of the reviews I read about the 103 that had graphs showing this, but its out there somewhere.

Again, I am no expert but there seems to be evidence that show that audio sent through HDMI may not be equally good from any player and it might be wrong to think that because its digital it must all be the same.

Any opinions?

If you're referring to the effect of different types of jitter Miller Audio Research has published the results of its measurement suite on the 105 (link below). HDMI doesn't carry a discrete audio clock and the sink device is required to regenerate the audio sample clock from the HDMI pixel clock. The process the sink uses to achieve this can vary hence the accuracy of the audio sample clock can vary and may be influenced by factors beyond the interface.

There are no HDMI source/sink correlated jitter measurements but there are some for S/PDIF input details 48kHz/24 210 psec and 96kHz/24 447 psec. More info in the link below.

http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/avtech/index.html
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post #6581 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

All my audio CD's and DVD-A's are backed up to Flac and stored on my Synology NAS. I can honestly say, I've not had any problems with text or image display via UPnP. All tags were generated/amended using Mp3tag.

Sorry but I am a bit confused by your comment...

If your Oppo is pulling the music files directly from a share folder on your NAS, then it is not using UPnP, so none of my above comments would be relevant to your case.

The OP's discussion related to problems when the files are being pushed to the player via a UPnP (DLNA) Media Server. So my question is a) are you accessing (pulling) your files from a NAS share, or b) are the files being pushed to you by a UPnP server, or even c) are you pulling the files from a UPnP server?

If a) then there is no need for further discussion because we are talking about completely different things. But if b) or c), can you please say which UPnP server are you using?
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post #6582 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 10:02 AM
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Now I'm confused...

I was of the opinion that the Oppo provided two methods of file retrieval, UPnP (DLNA) and SMB (which is experimental). I'm pulling FLAC files from my Synology NAS which has it 'Media Server' enabled and is described as offering: -

"Media Server provides a multimedia service for you to browse and play the multimedia contents on Synology DiskStation via DLNA/UPnP home devices. With Media Server, you can easily connect those devices such as TV sets and stereo systems to your home network, and stream multimedia files stored on DiskStation to the devices to enjoy music, photos, and videos."

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post #6583 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jboileau View Post

In regards to earlier discussions about the 103 better (or not) audio quality over HDMI. Some point out out that bits are bits and no gain can be achieved from the 103 over any other player. I am not a guru, but my readings point to the contrary. From what I read, and would love that experts here on the forum chime in with opinions, the audio digital bitstream's cadence has an influence on the quality of what is heard.

I believe that the regularity of the audio bits are sent to the DA decoder in our AV receivers makes a difference. In this respect, the 103 compared to other makes and even to its predecessors has an extremely stable clock that delivers the most stable stream of bits. I unfortunatly do not remember which of the reviews I read about the 103 that had graphs showing this, but its out there somewhere.

Again, I am no expert but there seems to be evidence that show that audio sent through HDMI may not be equally good from any player and it might be wrong to think that because its digital it must all be the same.

Any opinions?

Had the BDP 95 for two years the sound was always outstanding!

My humble Cinema
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post #6584 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 10:24 AM
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Hi all,

I think I have found a minor bug with the 103. I will send this to Oppo as well.

This has happened maybe 5 times in two plus months.

I am using my WDTV Live Hub via HDMI in at the rear of the 103. When I send the signal with my Harmony One to "Watch WDTV" it will normally power everything on and go to the correct input of the 103 which is HDMI rear. On these 5 occasions, the player does go to the correct input, however there is no picture present. The WDTV is set to always on. When I press the input button on the remote, it does cycle through the choices but very slow and laggy. Once I select "BD" it is fine as the home screen shows up and then when I go back to "HDMI rear", it's fine. Not a big deal but figured I'd point it out. Thanks.

JJ

JJ
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post #6585 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k00zmi4 View Post


Great point here, rdgrimes! NR is part of 'features' Qdeo was marketed/admired for. For some it's still great. For me Auto processing features like 'Adaptive Contrast Enhancement ' or 'Intelligent Color Remapping' mentioned here, are unacceptable. So, not necessarily 'just use HDMI-2' resolves this moment. A simple 'Source Direct' mode should do the trick bypassing the Qdeo. But......(I sure hope I'm wrong guys, but there's only one way to find out - user/owner tests)
Well, I used 'Source Direct' for almost a year with my BDP-95, and only a few months ago I noticed offset/oversample issue when Source Direct is used with HDMI-1. Now I suspect the fw issue with the Mediatek chip, but still as much as possible test results are needed from you guys to prove me right/wrong. So still appreciate your contribution to resolve the issue mentioned here The reason I posted at 103/105 forums is my hopefully soon 100 series upgrade. Thanx again...

In arlier posts it seems that on HDMI 1 the QEDO chip still does NR, etc even on 'source direct'. I believe this was even confirmed
by Oppo. If you do a search of the thread I'm sure you can find that discussion.

The reason some of us see this as all 'an issue' is that HDMI 2 seems to have problems with color in some set ups (which Oppo has indicated to me
in emails they see as a likely real issue, even though they are still investigating - saying "it was confirmed by beta testers"), so, for the moment,
there's no perfect solution for those who want an unmolested and clean signal. Although Oppo's awareness of the HDMI 2 issue gives me great
hope that will be solved in a future firmware. At that point there really will be no 'issue'.
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post #6586 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

Now I'm confused...

I was of the opinion that the Oppo provided two methods of file retrieval, UPnP (DLNA) and SMB (which is experimental). I'm pulling FLAC files from my Synology NAS which has it 'Media Server' enabled and is described as offering: -

"Media Server provides a multimedia service for you to browse and play the multimedia contents on Synology DiskStation via DLNA/UPnP home devices. With Media Server, you can easily connect those devices such as TV sets and stereo systems to your home network, and stream multimedia files stored on DiskStation to the devices to enjoy music, photos, and videos."

If your NAS is running a DNLA server AND offering file shares, you will see 2 entries on the Oppo "Network" screen. The DNLA server will show an icon with 2 little monitors. The SMB share will show an icon with 2 little computer towers. The DNLA server may alternatively show a custom icon, such as the Microsoft icon that WMP uses.

If you don't see 2 entries on your Network screen, then the NAS isn't doing both. Your NAS setup options may include the ability to enable/disable one or the other.
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post #6587 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 10:55 AM
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I'm doing the same with Plex Media Server and finding all the same benefits.

Curious how you came to settle on Twonky vs Plex or the other media servers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoguy1 View Post

I just want to share my experience using the 103 with an iMac running Twonky Media Server and the Twonky Beam app on my iPad. With this combination, I'm able to browse my music files using my iPad and push those files to the Oppo. Love being able to play my music without turning on the tv :-) I also find it quicker and more convenient to browse my media files (music, bluray mkv files, ...) with the iPad than directly with the Oppo file browser.

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post #6588 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidetracked View Post

In arlier posts it seems that on HDMI 1 the QEDO chip still does NR, etc even on 'source direct'. I believe this was even confirmed
by Oppo. If you do a search of the thread I'm sure you can find that discussion.

The reason some of us see this as all 'an issue' is that HDMI 2 seems to have problems with color in some set ups (which Oppo has indicated to me
in emails they see as a likely real issue, even though they are still investigating - saying "it was confirmed by beta testers"), so, for the moment,
there's no perfect solution for those who want an unmolested and clean signal. Although Oppo's awareness of the HDMI 2 issue gives me great
hope that will be solved in a future firmware. At that point there really will be no 'issue'.

Nobody has reported any issues on HDMI-2 when watching live content. The color issues reported are on calibration discs or tests, and it hasn't been demonstrated to translate into visible effects.

In any case, the NR employed on HDMI-1 is not an "issue", it's what the Qdeo chip does. Some folks may not appreciate it, (and I am one of them), but its not broken - it just is.
Don't be surprised when you put a video processor into the video chain and the video winds up looking processed.
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post #6589 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 11:23 AM
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Got another MKV question here, but imo it seems like a pretty major problem: I was watching a MKV film earlier today and noticed very jerky camera pans and sure enough when I checked my output settings it was because the Oppo was outputting this 1080p 24fps file at 50fps. I then tried other MKV files and the results were always the same: The Oppo is converting every single MKV file I play into 50fps or 60fps (it can't even decide what framerate it wants, some films get converted to 60, some to 50)

Does anyone know what's going on here? I went into the video settings to try and force native 24fps out, but the player wouldn't do it! Blu-ray plays back just fine in 24fps. Can the oppo not handle 24fps in MKV files or something?
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post #6590 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

If your NAS is running a DNLA server AND offering file shares, you will see 2 entries on the Oppo "Network" screen. The DNLA server will show an icon with 2 little monitors. The SMB share will show an icon with 2 little computer towers. The DNLA server may alternatively show a custom icon, such as the Microsoft icon that WMP uses.

If you don't see 2 entries on your Network screen, then the NAS isn't doing both. Your NAS setup options may include the ability to enable/disable one or the other.
Thanks for the confirmation. This is exactly what I'm seeing. And to confirm, my preferred method of file retrieval is via UPnP (DLNA) which displays the image and text 'meta-data' from all my Flac, MP3 and AAC (.M4A) files perfectly...

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post #6591 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shingster View Post

Got another MKV question here, but imo it seems like a pretty major problem: I was watching a MKV film earlier today and noticed very jerky camera pans and sure enough when I checked my output settings it was because the Oppo was outputting this 24fps file at 50fps. I then tried other MKV files and the results were always the same: The Oppo is converting every single MKV file I play into 50fps or 60fps (it can't even decide what framerate it wants, some films get converted to 60, some to 50)

Does anyone know what's going on here? I went into the video settings to try and force native 24fps out, but the player wouldn't do it! Can the oppo not handle 24fps in MKV files or something?
I've seen the Oppo behave strangely when fed some 720x576p25 .MKV sources. What does MediaInfo report about some of your problem sources?

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post #6592 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 11:30 AM
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Nothing that screams out to me as strange, simple 1080p@23.976Hz on all files.
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post #6593 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shingster View Post

Got another MKV question here, but imo it seems like a pretty major problem: I was watching a MKV film earlier today and noticed very jerky camera pans and sure enough when I checked my output settings it was because the Oppo was outputting this 1080p 24fps file at 50fps. I then tried other MKV files and the results were always the same: The Oppo is converting every single MKV file I play into 50fps or 60fps (it can't even decide what framerate it wants, some films get converted to 60, some to 50)

Does anyone know what's going on here? I went into the video settings to try and force native 24fps out, but the player wouldn't do it! Blu-ray plays back just fine in 24fps. Can the oppo not handle 24fps in MKV files or something?

No, I do that all the time. As suggested, what does mkvinfo or mediainfo say about the file?

-Bill


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post #6594 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 11:47 AM
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Nothing that screams out to me as strange, simple 1080p@23.976Hz on all files.
Hmmm...

Most of my Blu-ray back-ups are 1920x1080p23.976 placed within the .MKV container, complete with chapters. I have the Oppo's '1080p24 Output' option enabled along with 'Direct Source'. And all my Blu-ray back-ups are output at 24Hz smile.gif

Sadly, the same positive observation cannot be said for any of my 720x480p23.976 or 720x576p25.000 .MKV sources eek.gif
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post #6595 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 11:50 AM
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Sadly, the same positive observation cannot be said for any of my 720x480p23.976

No can do. HDMI doesn't have standard def 24hz.

-Bill


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post #6596 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 11:57 AM
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In any case, the NR employed on HDMI-1 is not an "issue", it's what the Qdeo chip does. Some folks may not appreciate it, (and I am one of them), but its not broken - it just is.
Don't be surprised when you put a video processor into the video chain and the video winds up looking processed.

When you turn the NR feature on the video processor off, it is reasonable to be surprised when it doesn't actually turn it off.

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post #6597 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 11:58 AM
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Ah by mediainfo I thought you meant something else! Downloaded and installed and now realise that I had the resolution wrong! They were actually 1280x720@23.976fps. Is it 720p files that can't be played in 24fps??
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Ah by mediainfo I thought you meant something else! Downloaded and installed and now realise that I had the resolution wrong! They were actually 1280x720@23.976fps. Is it 720p files that can't be played in 24fps??

Correct.

-Bill
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post #6599 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 12:03 PM
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Crikey, never knew that! Is it an HDMI thing? Also, how come one file is playing at 50fps and the other at 60fps?
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post #6600 of 18347 Old 03-14-2013, 12:06 PM
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Crikey, never knew that! Is it an HDMI thing? Also, how come one file is playing at 50fps and the other at 60fps?

PAL = 50 fps (or factors of it), NTSC = 60 fps (or factors of it).
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