Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 221 - AVS Forum
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post #6601 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

No can do. HDMI doesn't have standard def 24hz.

-Bill
Indeed...

However, although all my 720x480p23.976 .MKV sources (with 16:9 aspect ratio signalling) are displayed at the correct 16:9 aspect ratio on my TV. All my 720x576p25.000 .MKV sources (with 16:9 aspect ratio signalling) are displayed at 4:3. And different containers yield different output results with the same video stream.

By-the-way... Has anybody managed to get the Oppo's 'DVD 24p Conversion' option to function?

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post #6602 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

PAL = 50 fps (or factors of it), NTSC = 60 fps (or factors of it).
But both files are 720p@23.976fps? Is the player deciding that one is PAL and the other NTSC, or is there something in the file that would specify this?
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post #6603 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Shingster View Post

But both files are 720p@23.976fps? Is the player deciding that one is PAL and the other NTSC, or is there something in the file that would specify this?
I've not carried out any tests with 1280x720 resolution sources... It might be worth trying...

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post #6604 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JJMONIE View Post

Hi all,

I think I have found a minor bug with the 103. I will send this to Oppo as well.

This has happened maybe 5 times in two plus months.

I am using my WDTV Live Hub via HDMI in at the rear of the 103. When I send the signal with my Harmony One to "Watch WDTV" it will normally power everything on and go to the correct input of the 103 which is HDMI rear. On these 5 occasions, the player does go to the correct input, however there is no picture present. The WDTV is set to always on. When I press the input button on the remote, it does cycle through the choices but very slow and laggy. Once I select "BD" it is fine as the home screen shows up and then when I go back to "HDMI rear", it's fine. Not a big deal but figured I'd point it out. Thanks.

JJ

Wow! Oppo Support is super fast! I heard they were good but within a couple hours here was their reply. May be useful to some of you with Harmony Remotes.

JJ

"You may want to give a slightly longer delay between the power on and the input command. The player will take about 9 seconds to fully initialize after being turned on, so delaying the INPUT command another 2 seconds may alleviate this issue in the future."

JJ
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post #6605 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post


By-the-way... Has anybody managed to get the Oppo's 'DVD 24p Conversion' option to function?

It's for NTSC DVD only and works fine for discs with film-based cadence.

-Bill
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post #6606 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Nobody has reported any issues on HDMI-2 when watching live content. The color issues reported are on calibration discs or tests, and it hasn't been demonstrated to translate into visible effects.

In any case, the NR employed on HDMI-1 is not an "issue", it's what the Qdeo chip does. Some folks may not appreciate it, (and I am one of them), but its not broken - it just is.
Don't be surprised when you put a video processor into the video chain and the video winds up looking processed.

I would respectfully disagree that no one has reported issues on HDMI 2 that translate into visible effects.

I'd reference posts # 5279, 5280, 5369, 5399, 5402, 5443 and 6495 as having references to problems that were more than just theoretical or 'test only'.
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Originally Posted by AndrewFG View Post

I don't think it makes any difference whether you use HDMI1 or HDMI2. But anyway until the bugfix comes out, the interim solution is to set up the Oppo to always output its audio in PCM (aka LPCM) rather than "bitstream". (The only downside of this is that you can't see on the receiver front panel what the original audio format was).

( And just so you know: the issue also applies to the Yamaha 820 too (what I have) and 1020 too )
OK thanks. I will try that tonight.
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post #6608 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

By-the-way... Has anybody managed to get the Oppo's 'DVD 24p Conversion' option to function?

It works fine on DVDs, which is all its supposed to do. It does not work on media files.
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post #6609 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sidetracked View Post

I would respectfully disagree that no one has reported issues on HDMI 2 that translate into visible effects.

I'd reference posts # 5279, 5280, 5369, 5399, 5402, 5443 and 6495 as having references to problems that were more than just theoretical or 'test only'.

You are overplaying the issue, since the error is only with YCbCr 4:2:2. YCbCr 4:4:4, RGB PC and RGB Video do not have the same chroma issue. For most users the HDMI 2 output is just as viable as the HDMI 1 output.
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post #6610 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Sidetracked View Post

I would respectfully disagree that no one has reported issues on HDMI 2 that translate into visible effects.

I'd reference posts # 5279, 5280, 5369, 5399, 5402, 5443 and 6495 as having references to problems that were more than just theoretical or 'test only'.

Thank you for saving me the time to post the same comment. I can see a loss of luminance (the Y in xyY) in the S&M Montage clip, something I am very familiar with. If I can see it, that means that the image no longer meets the calibration standards (less than 2 de) that the set was calibrated to. Some may not experience this with HDMI 2 Source Direct because chroma up sampling appears to work correctly with one or more color space settings on some sets. For those where it fails, the resulting image is no longer correctly calibrated.
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post #6611 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

Had the BDP 95 for two years the sound was always outstanding!

Yes, this is out of question. It is also true for me. But if you do an A/B comparison, than you can hear differences.
This can come from a specific jitter of the disk reader but it could also come from RF or jitter from HDMI, as dazzerxxx wrote in post #6606.
Usually we assume that digital is digital and if the signal is converted in the AVR into analog, it should not matter what happens before, all should be the same. Whether I use a 80 US$ inexpensive player from Wal-Mart or an Oppo 95 or 103, it should not make a difference, when using a HDMI connection.

My point is, that in my small test with two players and the same disk, same HDMI cables and the rest of the set up the same, I could clearly hear differences esp. in the lower frequencies.

This doesn't mean, that there is something wrong with the Oppo. The Oppo sounds very good on it's own. But if you make a direct comparison, you can hear differences using HDMI.
This proves to me, that everybody who says, digital is digital is not quite right. It seems there is some kind of influence on the signal but I don't know where and how.
My strongest guess would be RF somewhere in the signal path. But this is just a guess. And then the question would be, if this is a data stream of '1' and '0' how could that influence it?
Well I have not the slightest idea.
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post #6612 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidetracked View Post

I would respectfully disagree that no one has reported issues on HDMI 2 that translate into visible effects.

I'd reference posts # 5279, 5280, 5369, 5399, 5402, 5443 and 6495 as having references to problems that were more than just theoretical or 'test only'.

Posts in a forum are not "proof" of anything. I see no issues with color on HDMI-2, compared to HDMI-1, and I'll leave it at that. If you have actually seen any color issues, you should post that.
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post #6613 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

You are overplaying the issue, since the error is only with YCbCr 4:2:2. YCbCr 4:4:4, RGB PC and RGB Video do not have the same chroma issue. For most users the HDMI 2 output is just as viable as the HDMI 1 output.

The Lumagen Radiance fails all three tests with HDMI 2 as a source. Lumagen checked into the problem and the Radiance is not the source of the problem; the Oppo is. With a direct feed from the Oppo to my Elite 70X5, the Elite also fails all the tests as well as 422 from HDMI 1 Source Direct. Some people who actually checked for the problem have reported that at least one color space is up sampled correctly but only one reported that all 3 did.
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post #6614 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Posts in a forum are not "proof" of anything. I see no issues with color on HDMI-2, compared to HDMI-1, and I'll leave it at that. If you have actually seen any color issues, you should post that.

So when someone posts results of a scientific test, you reject that because it isn't "real world", it's "only"
a test result (I thought we relied on these a lot at AVS).

Then when someone says they can actually see the results you dismiss posts in a forum as "not
being proof" because you see no such issues.

I'm fine with the fact you don't see a problem, but to post, with authority "there is no issue"
as you did earlier seems to be drawing a very conclusive judgement for all.

When even Oppo acknowledges there is very possibly a problem, I'm not sure what the resistance
is to it being discussed here.

Yes, perhaps many people on many set ups might not see a difference. But the kind of people
who come to AVS care about such things or we wouldn't be spending money to calibrate our
sets, buy $500 blu-ray players, etc.

If some people on some set ups are getting a less than optimal picture, I would think this AVS
owners board would be the exact place to discuss it, not dismiss it.
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post #6615 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

The Lumagen Radiance fails all three tests with HDMI 2 as a source. Lumagen checked into the problem and the Radiance is not the source of the problem; the Oppo is. With a direct feed from the Oppo to my Elite 70X5, the Elite also fails all the tests as well as 422 from HDMI 1 Source Direct. Some people who actually checked for the problem have reported that at least one color space is up sampled correctly but only one reported that all 3 did.

Bypass the Lumagen to ensure that it is not twisting the Color Gamut or re-sampling the Color Space. Go direct to the display device and ensure that this display device supports natively YCbCr 4:2:2, YCbCr 4:4:4, PC and Video RGB. Many of the beta testers have run Color Space sanity checks with HDMI 1 and HDMI 2, and only YCbCr 4:2:2 on HDMI 2 seems to have any chroma errors.
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post #6616 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Sidetracked View Post

If some people on some set ups are getting a less than optimal picture, I would think this AVS
owners board would be the exact place to discuss it, not dismiss it.

As a prospective buyer, I am extremely interested in reading about any issues with the Oppo in this thread. I was considering purchasing the player last week, but I held off and decided I could live with my older Panasonic DMP-BDT210 until I feel I have enough information to move forward with my decision. I am interested in reading about the pros and the cons and this includes any bugs as I'd like to see how Oppo responds with their firmware updates and acknowledgements. This thread has been quite enlightening overall although sometimes it can be difficult to weed through what is fact and what is not, especially when there are vehement disagreements on both sides. =)
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post #6617 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Sidetracked View Post

So when someone posts results of a scientific test, you reject that because it isn't "real world", it's "only"
a test result (I thought we relied on these a lot at AVS)..

Relying solely on other's posts and regurgitating them (repeatedly) as fact is not helpful to anyone.

I'm simply asking you to post your OWN results and experiences. Have YOU been able to demonstrate any color issues on HDMI-2?
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post #6618 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Einskaldir View Post

As a prospective buyer, I am extremely interested in reading about any issues with the Oppo in this thread. I was considering purchasing the player last week, but I held off and decided I could live with my older Panasonic DMP-BDT210 until I feel I have enough information to move forward with my decision. I am interested in reading about the pros and the cons and this includes any bugs as I'd like to see how Oppo responds with their firmware updates and acknowledgements. This thread has been quite enlightening overall although sometimes it can be difficult to weed through what is fact and what is not, especially when there are vehement disagreements on both sides. =)

there are some issues. Its still a fine player. I own the 93. I also owned the 83 and the 971 dvd player. there are more pros then cons.

Jacob
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post #6619 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Relying solely on other's posts and regurgitating them (repeatedly) as fact is not helpful to anyone.

I'm simply asking you to post your OWN results and experiences. Have YOU been able to demonstrate any color issues on HDMI-2?

I have repeatedly posted on my own observations in other areas, and I have also posted about
my own conversation with Oppo as to whether there was indeed a problem with HDMI 2.

As to this specific issue, no I have not posted my opinion, because I have not tested sufficiently, and I'm not sure if subtle
differences in color are flaws or not, although I have posted that I overall prefer the image on my old 83.

In terms of this specific, I only posted in response to your flat - and I felt misleading - statement that 'there is no issue'.
I believe it's fair game, in response to a such conclusive statement to point out that others see it differently and that Oppo
(directly to me) has acknowledged a possible issue. (One they said was 'confirmed by beta testers')

You said NO ONE had seen any color issues in real world use. I sited posts of others who
had. That is not misleading. I never claimed they were my posts. I'm sorry you think it's not helpful.

To me, it's more helpful than someone flatly denying the experience of other posters, or that such posts exist.
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post #6620 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 06:16 PM
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If a part operates exactly as it was designed to operate, and some observers dislike the way that part is operating, then I would call that stating a preference not discovering an issue that can be corrected.
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post #6621 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 06:54 PM
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If a part operates exactly as it was designed to operate, and some observers dislike the way that part is operating, then I would call that stating a preference not discovering an issue that can be corrected.

I agree. And as for HDMI 1 it seems likely that is the case (although, to be fair, last I checked Oppo said they were still
investigating the sharpness issues on HDMI 1 that had been reported, so - unless something has changed, we don't yet know for
sure that it is operating exactly as designed, but certainly I took that to be Oppo's leaning at this point.)

HDMI 2 is another issue altogether. There is evidence it is not operating just as designed. The argument seems
to be more how meaningful that variance from design is. Certainly Oppo's tone in communicating about HMDI 2 with me
was very different then their tone about HDMI 1.

I have no clear personal opinion yet. I believe I see some occasional color variance between HDMI 1 and 2, which means
objectively one is less 'right' or true to the original, but these are small shifts and I will admit I lack the equipment or know how on how to
interpret what I am seeing. That's why I am anxious to hear what Oppo comes up with, and to learn what others with
more knowledge have deduced.
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post #6622 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Sidetracked View Post

I believe I see some occasional color variance between HDMI 1 and 2, which means
objectively one is less 'right' or true to the original, but these are small shifts and I will admit I lack the equipment or know how on how to
interpret what I am seeing. That's why I am anxious to hear what Oppo comes up with, and to learn what others with
more knowledge have deduced.
Thanks for your reply. I've owned the BDP-83 and the BDP-93 and with my extensive powers of observation, advanced years, and amazing color memory, the best I can do is notice when material looks grossly unnatural to me. eek.gif

After reading more posts at AVS than I will ever admit to, I may be a little sensitive to the use of the word "issue" as well. wink.gif

Enjoy.
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post #6623 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

Yes, this is out of question. It is also true for me. But if you do an A/B comparison, than you can hear differences.
This can come from a specific jitter of the disk reader but it could also come from RF or jitter from HDMI, as dazzerxxx wrote in post #6606.
Usually we assume that digital is digital and if the signal is converted in the AVR into analog, it should not matter what happens before, all should be the same. Whether I use a 80 US$ inexpensive player from Wal-Mart or an Oppo 95 or 103, it should not make a difference, when using a HDMI connection.

My point is, that in my small test with two players and the same disk, same HDMI cables and the rest of the set up the same, I could clearly hear differences esp. in the lower frequencies.

This doesn't mean, that there is something wrong with the Oppo. The Oppo sounds very good on it's own. But if you make a direct comparison, you can hear differences using HDMI.
This proves to me, that everybody who says, digital is digital is not quite right. It seems there is some kind of influence on the signal but I don't know where and how.
My strongest guess would be RF somewhere in the signal path. But this is just a guess. And then the question would be, if this is a data stream of '1' and '0' how could that influence it?
Well I have not the slightest idea.
I totally agree about this..not all digital is the same..I have been trying to prove that theory for the last few weeks..but its not easy, digital in digital out,But..I'm getting different results with different gear and HDMI cables..even though I shouldn't be!
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post #6624 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 09:13 PM
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anybody use this cinivia fix software on there oppo?

http://cinaviafix.com/solutions/
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post #6625 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 09:16 PM
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anybody use this cinivia fix software on there oppo?

http://cinaviafix.com/solutions/

Doesn't that specifically say PS3?

-Bill
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Originally Posted by larryep View Post

anybody use this cinivia fix software on there oppo?

http://cinaviafix.com/solutions/

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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Doesn't that specifically say PS3?

-Bill

It is specific to the PS3, and its also a fine example of people trying to take your money for work-arounds that are common knowledge and free to anyone who's not too lazy to look for them or figure them out.
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post #6627 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 09:34 PM
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I gave a quick read and they do mention blu ray players. but the real question is which ones.

here is there opening title on there home page.
Did your movie suddenly stop on your Playstation 3 or BluRay player?


I have had a couple of movie iso do this. I am thinking about converting them to mkv.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

You are overplaying the issue, since the error is only with YCbCr 4:2:2. YCbCr 4:4:4, RGB PC and RGB Video do not have the same chroma issue. For most users the HDMI 2 output is just as viable as the HDMI 1 output.

FWIW, I spent considerable time comparing HDMI-1 and HDMI-2 on all the available chroma tests, using 4:2:2 compared to 4:4:4, and I am unable to see any difference on my 65" ISF/THX calibrated plasma. Both outputs in either color space pass all tests perfectly. Caveat: I'm using beta firmware which you are familiar with, but the same has been true using previous revisions.
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post #6629 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by larryep View Post

I gave a quick read and they do mention blu ray players. but the real question is which ones.

here is there opening title on there home page.
Did your movie suddenly stop on your Playstation 3 or BluRay player?


I have had a couple of movie iso do this. I am thinking about converting them to mkv.

Currently Cinavia is not detected in media files like MKV or M2TS on the OPPO anyway. I believe this is common behavior on BR players.

It may change in the future, of course.

-Bill
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post #6630 of 19136 Old 03-14-2013, 10:00 PM
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I notice the movie list on there web site about which movies contain cinavia but it is not current.

Is there a good list on the internet that has a up to date list with unreleased blu ray movies?

I am looking now and will post.

I will try not to buy or rent if this is on a movie.rolleyes.gif
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Reply Blu-ray Players

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Oppo Bdp 103 3d Blu Ray Player , Oppo Bdp 105 Blu Ray Player , Oppo Bdp 93 Blu Ray Player , Oppo Digital Inc

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