Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 222 - AVS Forum
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post #6631 of 18347 Old 03-15-2013, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

If a part operates exactly as it was designed to operate, and some observers dislike the way that part is operating, then I would call that stating a preference not discovering an issue that can be corrected.

Perhaps Oppo should alter their product description to set an appropriate expectation or clarify this feature only applies to a certain HDMI output.

"Source Direct Mode - For users who wish to use an external video processor, the BDP-103 offers a "Source Direct" mode. The original audio/video content on the discs is sent out with no additional processing or alteration."
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post #6632 of 18347 Old 03-15-2013, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

Now I'm confused...

I was of the opinion that the Oppo provided two methods of file retrieval, UPnP (DLNA) and SMB (which is experimental). I'm pulling FLAC files from my Synology NAS which has it 'Media Server' enabled ..

Indeed. It sounds like your NAS has a built in UPnP server, so it is probably making your music available to the player via two different alternate mechanisms: a) via its Network Attached Storage function (aka Windows File Share / SMB / CIFS sharing), and also b) via the UPnP / DLNA server function.

From the other persons's post, and my own experience with the Oppo, we have the impression that when using mechanism a) [file share] all the meta data and artwork are displayed properly, whereas when using mechanism b) [UPnP / DLNA] there are bugs with the meta data text tags, and missing album art images; (and furthermore it seems the exact bugs in case b) may be different depending on which exact media server software is being used).

So you need to say if you are pulling your music via mechanism a) or b).
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post #6633 of 18347 Old 03-15-2013, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by larryep View Post

I notice the movie list on there web site about which movies contain cinavia but it is not current.

Is there a good list on the internet that has a up to date list with unreleased blu ray movies?

I am looking now and will post.

I will try not to buy or rent if this is on a movie.rolleyes.gif
The following list provided by DVDFab seems pretty much upto date: http://blog.dvdfab.com/cinavia-protection.html

EDIT: Looks like Dark Zero Thirty will be infested...


Cheers

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post #6634 of 18347 Old 03-15-2013, 04:33 AM
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I hope this is a newbie question and not just a dumb one., but I don't want to go through all the work of pulling everything out, setting it up, putting it back, and finding out it won't work.

Is it possible to have both HDMI outputs live, and use my Harmony to switch between them so that if I'm watching a Blu-ray it will be on HDMI2 with no extra processing, and if it's an .mkv over the network it's on HDMI1 with the Qdeo for upscaling? And if it is possible, is there any reason that would be less smart than I think it would be?

Thanks! I'm afraid when it comes to A/V I'm better at enjoying the results than understanding how they happen...

AKA Rob Helmerichs
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post #6635 of 18347 Old 03-15-2013, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Medieval Guy View Post

I hope this is a newbie question and not just a dumb one., but I don't want to go through all the work of pulling everything out, setting it up, putting it back, and finding out it won't work.

Is it possible to have both HDMI outputs live, and use my Harmony to switch between them so that if I'm watching a Blu-ray it will be on HDMI2 with no extra processing, and if it's an .mkv over the network it's on HDMI1 with the Qdeo for upscaling? And if it is possible, is there any reason that would be less smart than I think it would be?

Thanks! I'm afraid when it comes to A/V I'm better at enjoying the results than understanding how they happen...
Yes. All Oppo outputs are active simultaneously.

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post #6636 of 18347 Old 03-15-2013, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by larryep View Post

I notice the movie list on there web site about which movies contain cinavia but it is not current.

Is there a good list on the internet that has a up to date list with unreleased blu ray movies?

I am looking now and will post.

I will try not to buy or rent if this is on a movie.rolleyes.gif

The short answer is that all Sony releases should be expected to have Cinavia, and only Sony at this point.
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post #6637 of 18347 Old 03-15-2013, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Bypass the Lumagen to ensure that it is not twisting the Color Gamut or re-sampling the Color Space. Go direct to the display device and ensure that this display device supports natively YCbCr 4:2:2, YCbCr 4:4:4, PC and Video RGB. Many of the beta testers have run Color Space sanity checks with HDMI 1 and HDMI 2, and only YCbCr 4:2:2 on HDMI 2 seems to have any chroma errors.

What you describe re bypassing is what I did at Oppo's request when I first emailed them about the problem on 1/20. The Elite failed the 422 test on HDMI 1 Source Direct as well as 1080p60. It failed all 3 color space tests on HDMI 2 regardless of whether Source Direct was used or not. With the Radiance all tests are passed with HDMI 1 Source Direct and all fail on HDMI 2. Having had Lumagen products since 2003, when they say the Radiance is not the cause of the problem, I believe them.
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post #6638 of 18347 Old 03-15-2013, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

Yes, this is out of question. It is also true for me. But if you do an A/B comparison, than you can hear differences.
This can come from a specific jitter of the disk reader but it could also come from RF or jitter from HDMI, as dazzerxxx wrote in post #6606.
Usually we assume that digital is digital and if the signal is converted in the AVR into analog, it should not matter what happens before, all should be the same. Whether I use a 80 US$ inexpensive player from Wal-Mart or an Oppo 95 or 103, it should not make a difference, when using a HDMI connection.

My point is, that in my small test with two players and the same disk, same HDMI cables and the rest of the set up the same, I could clearly hear differences esp. in the lower frequencies.

This doesn't mean, that there is something wrong with the Oppo. The Oppo sounds very good on it's own. But if you make a direct comparison, you can hear differences using HDMI.
This proves to me, that everybody who says, digital is digital is not quite right. It seems there is some kind of influence on the signal but I don't know where and how.
My strongest guess would be RF somewhere in the signal path. But this is just a guess. And then the question would be, if this is a data stream of '1' and '0' how could that influence it?
Well I have not the slightest idea.

Sit down for a controlled double-blind listening test and then report the results of how accurately you are able to correctly identify which player is which.

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post #6639 of 18347 Old 03-15-2013, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

Yes, this is out of question. It is also true for me. But if you do an A/B comparison, than you can hear differences.
This can come from a specific jitter of the disk reader but it could also come from RF or jitter from HDMI, as dazzerxxx wrote in post #6606.
Usually we assume that digital is digital and if the signal is converted in the AVR into analog, it should not matter what happens before, all should be the same. Whether I use a 80 US$ inexpensive player from Wal-Mart or an Oppo 95 or 103, it should not make a difference, when using a HDMI connection.

My point is, that in my small test with two players and the same disk, same HDMI cables and the rest of the set up the same, I could clearly hear differences esp. in the lower frequencies.

This doesn't mean, that there is something wrong with the Oppo. The Oppo sounds very good on it's own. But if you make a direct comparison, you can hear differences using HDMI.
This proves to me, that everybody who says, digital is digital is not quite right. It seems there is some kind of influence on the signal but I don't know where and how.
My strongest guess would be RF somewhere in the signal path. But this is just a guess. And then the question would be, if this is a data stream of '1' and '0' how could that influence it?
Well I have not the slightest idea.

As you say there can be minor differences between players due to jitter when playing PCM soundtracks or decoding in the player.

There should be no differences when other codecs are used, ala Dolby and DTS as all 0's and 1's as you say are buffered in AVR before decoding to PCM and then re decoding to analog.
PCM signals are decoded straight to analog and are therefore more prone to jitter.
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post #6640 of 18347 Old 03-15-2013, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

What you describe re bypassing is what I did at Oppo's request when I first emailed them about the problem on 1/20. The Elite failed the 422 test on HDMI 1 Source Direct as well as 1080p60. It failed all 3 color space tests on HDMI 2 regardless of whether Source Direct was used or not. With the Radiance all tests are passed with HDMI 1 Source Direct and all fail on HDMI 2. Having had Lumagen products since 2003, when they say the Radiance is not the cause of the problem, I believe them.

Unfortunately I do not really have a response for you, since you are getting worse results going direct to the display than when going through the Lumagen. I can only attest for my own testing, and HDMI 2 only fails YCbCr 4:2:2 using the three displays I have access to (JVC DLA-RS50, Samsung SP-A900B, Sony PlayStation Monitor).
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post #6641 of 18347 Old 03-15-2013, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View PostUnfortunately I do not really have a response for you, since you are getting worse results going direct to the display than when going through the Lumagen. I can only attest for my own testing, and HDMI 2 only fails YCbCr 4:2:2 using the three displays I have access to (JVC DLA-RS50, Samsung SP-A900B, Sony PlayStation Monitor).

Hum! With the BDP-105 it works 


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post #6642 of 18347 Old 03-15-2013, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

The following list provided by DVDFab seems pretty much upto date: http://blog.dvdfab.com/cinavia-protection.html

EDIT: Looks like Dark Zero Thirty will be infested...


Cheers

Thank you
that list is more current


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post #6643 of 18347 Old 03-15-2013, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bbar View Post

As you say there can be minor differences between players due to jitter when playing PCM soundtracks or decoding in the player.

There should be no differences when other codecs are used, ala Dolby and DTS as all 0's and 1's as you say are buffered in AVR before decoding to PCM and then re decoding to analog.
PCM signals are decoded straight to analog and are therefore more prone to jitter.

I completely agree and this is also my understanding of the technical background. But my question is: Why do I hear differences, when I am doing an A/B comparison between two players?
Can it be that this is a side effect of the video chip? Or something about the power supply?
I guess the people who design these players know, but nobody told us about this - also only a guess.

Well, it is some kind of miracle happening there. Personally I don't want to extend this topic any further and I take it as 'a difference between two different players' and it is OK for me. May be some time later, somebody will find out, why digital players can sound different, using digital connections. Currently, I don't have a clue.

I will test tomorrow HDMI 1 and 2 output, because there is a lot of fuzz here about it. This is also, IMO, an interesting topic.
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post #6644 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 06:16 AM
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I have a URC MX-900 universal remote that I purchased over 3 years ago.

I recently purchased a BDP-103. Though Oppo units are in the MX-900's IR data-base; the BDP-103 is not as the MX-900 software has not been updated to include Oppo's latest models.

Can I just say it is another Oppo model? Do any of the older models' IR commands work with the BDP-103? Or, will I have to simply have my remote "learn" each command?

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post #6645 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 06:22 AM
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Jdlynch, I read on Oppo's site that the codes are the same as a BDP-83 on up. Manual addition of newer features would be necessary though. I have the same remote and an 83.
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post #6646 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

I have a URC MX-900 universal remote that I purchased over 3 years ago.

I recently purchased a BDP-103. Though Oppo units are in the MX-900's IR data-base; the BDP-103 is not as the MX-900 software has not been updated to include Oppo's latest models.

Can I just say it is another Oppo model? Do any of the older models' IR commands work with the BDP-103? Or, will I have to simply have my remote "learn" each command?

All the OPPO remotes are compatible. You might have to learn a new button like INPUT which is new to the BDP-103.

-Bill


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post #6647 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 06:49 AM
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My replacement 103 arrived yesterday--same problem with small pop between tracks and the noise floor is audible when I crank my Denon AVR-4306 to max (a level that would blow my speakers). This thing is so wonderful that I'll keep it and hope a firmware upgrade will fix these bugs in future.

One of the most amazing things (one I wasn't expecting) is the life the 103 has breathed into my standard definition CDs--there is a clarity that lets me hear details I've never heard before and I can play CDs at volume levels that would have been impossible on my Denon DVD-3910. I'm actually enjoying my CD collection as much as my SACDs and DVD-Audio titles. The DVD up conversion is terrific as well. What a wonderful player. I can't imagine how good the 105 must sound!
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post #6648 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 07:26 AM
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SIDETRACKED gets an academy award for Post #6566.
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post #6649 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 07:45 AM
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I had asked this sometime back. Is there any chance we will see a firmware upgrade that will give us Hulu on the 103? I keep having to go to my lower level to watch Hulu on my Sony TV and my Elite does not have it upstairs. Even my friends older Samsung Blu Ray got updated for Hulu. It would be great to have. Thanks.
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Originally Posted by mrcarnut View Post

I had asked this sometime back. Is there any chance we will see a firmware upgrade that will give us Hulu on the 103? I keep having to go to my lower level to watch Hulu on my Sony TV and my Elite does not have it upstairs. Even my friends older Samsung Blu Ray got updated for Hulu. It would be great to have. Thanks.


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post #6651 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 07:49 AM
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Now that I had a VT50, which is going to be calibrated by one of these guys with a good rep, I was considering just using 1080p/24 Source Direct with the Oppo out of HDMI one. Is there anything with that configuration I should be aware of? IIRC that just outputs around the Marvel, basically outputting the ycbcr 422 signal. Or with the color space setting still affect the output in Source Direct?

Thanks.

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post #6652 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mrcarnut View Post

I had asked this sometime back. Is there any chance we will see a firmware upgrade that will give us Hulu on the 103? I keep having to go to my lower level to watch Hulu on my Sony TV and my Elite does not have it upstairs. Even my friends older Samsung Blu Ray got updated for Hulu. It would be great to have. Thanks.

The answer to this type of question is "Yes, there is always a chance" but no one can say with certainty. OPPO pursues network partnerships but you can't push a rope; someone has to be pulling from the other end and a small company like OPPO can't always get their attention. These other companies look at installed base: number of eyeballs.

Hulu is available on the Roku Streaming Stick. Ideally (to me) all player vendors ought to move all network services into something like the Roku. Have them make it work so no one else has to worry about it. Then all services are available to all players.

-Bill


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post #6653 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Now that I had a VT50, which is going to be calibrated by one of these guys with a good rep, I was considering just using 1080p/24 Source Direct with the Oppo out of HDMI one. Is there anything with that configuration I should be aware of? IIRC that just outputs around the Marvel, basically outputting the ycbcr 422 signal. Or with the color space setting still affect the output in Source Direct?

Thanks.

Yes, color space setting still works with Source Direct. It has to: the format on the disc (4:2:0) can't be carried by HDMI.

HDMI2 is the output that bypasses Marvel entirely.

-Bill


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post #6654 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Yes, color space setting still works with Source Direct. It has to: the format on the disc (4:2:0) can't be carried by HDMI.

HDMI2 is the output that bypasses Marvel entirely.

-Bill

Thanks for that. If one was going to go source direct, is either output "better" than the either. Im just looking for "source" direct, or as close to original as possible. Id guess that would be 422 SD, but Ive not seen 422 vs 444 mattering as much. Im probably splitting hairs at this point.

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post #6655 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post


Thanks for that. If one was going to go source direct, is either output "better" than the either. Im just looking for "source" direct, or as close to original as possible. Id guess that would be 422 SD, but Ive not seen 422 vs 444 mattering as much. Im probably splitting hairs at this point.

Thanks,

Best to try the two outputs and color space choices to judge for yourself. Spears & Munsil have an article on evaluating color space on their web site.

Chroma upsampling has to occur someplace. The video starts as 4:2:0 on the disc (both DVD and Blu-ray), has to be fully expanded to 4:4:4 before being converted to RGB (in the display if nowhere else).

In a perfect world it wouldn't matter where this happened but we have seen quirks and bugs in a lot of consumer electronics over the years.

-Bill


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post #6656 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Best to try the two outputs and color space choices to judge for yourself. Spears & Munsil have an article on evaluating color space on their web site.

Chroma upsampling has to occur someplace. The video starts as 4:2:0 on the disc (both DVD and Blu-ray), has to be fully expanded to 4:4:4 before being converted to RGB (in the display if nowhere else).

In a perfect world it wouldn't matter where this happened but we have seen quirks and bugs in a lot of consumer electronics over the years.

-Bill

Thats right, if sent as 4:2:2 from the Oppo, the display is still going to handle 4:4:4, so 4:4:4 from the player (what I use now) is probably going to be the best bet. It currently has passed all test for me on Spears and Munsil, and thats useing set 1080p/24 (not source direct) and 4:4:4 output.

What is really the difference on the 1080p/24 HDMI 1 with 4:4:4 Deep Color Off vs Source Direct HDMI 1 4:4:4 Deep Color Off? They are basically the same, 1080p/24 4:4:4, so I guess it just takes any processing additions the Marvell usual does out of the picture?

65" VT50 / BDP-103
X4000 / Outlaw Model 7125
Klipsch RF82 II and RC62 II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Directv HR44-200 / HR24-500
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post #6657 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

What is really the difference on the 1080p/24 HDMI 1 with 4:4:4 Deep Color Off vs Source Direct HDMI 1 4:4:4 Deep Color Off?

Probably very little for Blu-ray, but a great deal for DVD.

QDEO sharpening and noise reduction controls are in effect for 1080p, and there have been recent reports that they are still visible even with Source Direct. I haven't examined it myself for lack of time.

-Bill


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post #6658 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Probably very little for Blu-ray, but a great deal for DVD.

QDEO sharpening and noise reduction controls are in effect for 1080p, and there have been recent reports that they are still visible even with Source Direct. I haven't examined it myself for lack of time.

-Bill

Thanks. I found a quick info guide for it on the 93 wiki as well. Ill throw in Spears later and check out Source Direct HDMI 444 and see how the results are. Im kinda a fan of just outputting whats on the disc, not sure the need for sharpening on noise reduction on a Blu-ray is anyways. Granted like you said, the effect is probably small.

65" VT50 / BDP-103
X4000 / Outlaw Model 7125
Klipsch RF82 II and RC62 II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Directv HR44-200 / HR24-500
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post #6659 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 10:10 AM
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I had sent a PM to AB previously when he posted his problem, as I experience the same issues. Running the 103 directly to a high quality separate amp, the clicks and pops are quite annoying. Even playing a usb flac file results in the click between tracks. I also run Direct TV through the 103 for the improved video quality, the ability to have the 103 decode through the analog outs, create the 5.1 in the various formats. Having the excellent remote control on the volume is also appreciated as I used a separate preamp for my two channel audiophile listening before with my 83se without level control. And, as AB noted, the audio quality of the 103 into great equipment is, as I previously posted, stellar,

Unfortunately, the Direct TV source ends up with even louder pops and clicks. It also, as they already know, does not play back premium recorded shows without coming up with a message about your "TV not being able to handle the program, switch to component cables" or some nonsense. The trick is to leave the HBO or whatever show playing from your source, turn off the 103, and then back on, choose your hdmi source again, and the movie then is playing without issue. If you change to another movie, you have to go through the off and back on process again. I want to "y" the hdmi coming out of Direct TV with one hdmi to the TV, and one going through the 103 as I now have. I tried a passive hdmi splitter, and an amplified one and neither passed the signal. I wrote and OPPO said to get the 105 because I guess that has the capability of that which I hadn't read. I sent back a note saying I didn't wish to spend another $600 and could they just tell me that it was possible to split the hdmi and get the signal through. They said it was, but not how. I have ordered a more powerful splitter, as I want to watch bastketball games while listening to a CD or USB flac file. I sense, after having a 971, an 83, the upgrade to SE, that the problems being discussed are taking their toll on the engineers. Seems there are quite a few problems in quite a few areas beyond just the normal firmware upgrades of previous units. I sold my SE to get the capabilities of the 103 I listed, but it seems the list of issues is growing.

Have always been impressed with their attention and improvements, and hope they can resolve all these things because in my case, the audio quality direct to my beloved Apogee Duettas is, as AB mentioned, making me re-listen to my collection of audiophile discs of all formats. I, probably as some, run dual hdmi's from the 103 so I have a choice of inputs for the two processors on my LG, and am not as discerning about contrast and love the snap to the better chip, especially on the improvement from the Direct TV HDVR.

Old time audiophile and vinyl collector of various surround sound formats from the 70's sq/qs/cd4 (and even EV)
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post #6660 of 18347 Old 03-16-2013, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Thanks. I found a quick info guide for it on the 93 wiki as well. Ill throw in Spears later and check out Source Direct HDMI 444 and see how the results are. Im kinda a fan of just outputting whats on the disc, not sure the need for sharpening on noise reduction on a Blu-ray is anyways. Granted like you said, the effect is probably small.

Since you'll be 'throwing in S&M', would you be so kind to check up on this issue I mentioned earlier - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1311806/official-oppo-bdp-95-owners-thread/10260#post_23074846
Thanks!
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