Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 250 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:24 AM
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I wonder if the 1080p/24 issue is not the player but certain displays just preferring 1080p/60 from the player instead if processing the 24hz themselves. It doesnt make much sense to me that the Marvell/Oppo would be more soft outputting whats on the disc, vs performing 2:3 pulldown.

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Old 04-07-2013, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

It's not just an 'Oppo' thing. It happens on all makes and models of hardware media players. For some reason known only to Apple, they devised their own version of PCM audio (AIFF/SOWT) for placing within their .MOV container.

EDIT: As a test, you could try re-muxing the .MOV file into the .MKV container, using an application called MKVmerge GUI or into the .TS/.M2TS container, using an application called TSmuxer GUI.

But you'll most probably have to find an encoding application to convert the 'SOWT' PCM audio to something far more 'hardware player' user friendly eek.gif
Fast way to convert MOV videos with SOWT audio to "ordinary" PCM containing videos can be find: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1215071/oppo-bdp-83-93-95-103-105-dlna-upnp-thread/2250_50#post_23034304
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sileem View Post

Fast way to convert MOV videos with SOWT audio to "ordinary" PCM containing videos can be find: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1215071/oppo-bdp-83-93-95-103-105-dlna-upnp-thread/2250_50#post_23034304
Hmmm...

In general, placing MPEG-4 AVC video streams within the .AVI container is not good practice. And is an absolute 'no-no' if the video stream contains B-frames!

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Old 04-07-2013, 11:08 AM
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If fellow members see different things via hdmi 1 & 2 choosing one over the other is it safe to say the the player is not flawed?

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Old 04-07-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

If fellow members see different things via hdmi 1 & 2 choosing one over the other is it safe to say the the player is not flawed?

That's a loaded and slightly ambiguous question. What do you consider 'flawed'? If you mean literally not functioning
properly, the only disc-playing report I've heard that seems to have some legs is that there may be a minor problem in the
4:2:2 color-space on HDMI 2 that has yet to be fixed. (Although the 1080P/24 question is interesting, but I agree
with gadgetfreek that it's probably an interface question and more about certain display limitations).

There also seems to be issue with sound sync on using the Oppo to process outside images (e.g, a cable
box), but Oppo has acknowledged it and continues to actively work on it. This last pass at firmware
was a step in going forward on that. I don't use the Oppo that way, so I can't comment personally.

If you mean an image that is less than optimal on blu-rays you are into the realm of the purely personal. I would
argue that HDMI 1 is 'flawed' in that you can't turn off all NR and other processing, even in source direct, but
that arguable 'flaw' is mitigated by the fact you can use HDMI 2 and get no additional processing. Beyond that
a few of us prefer the image on the BDP-83 to either output on the 103, but that is (for me) a very small and
very personal difference.

If you are talking about SD-DVDs, then the 103 is 'flawed' in that it doesn't do as good a job upscaling as the earlier Oppo
models that had the ABT chip, and some other players with different chips, but that is in part because many chip manufacturers
are no longer in the market. So it's a step backwards in quality, but not what I'd call a 'flaw'...
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Old 04-07-2013, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

If fellow members see different things via hdmi 1 & 2 choosing one over the other is it safe to say the the player is not flawed?

"Flawed" is a hard judgment to make. In one sense it's "perfect" if you capture the HDMI output and find textbook grayscale levels (as has been done) and the chroma upsampling is being done correctly (and there is more than one way to do it).

On the other hand, people pay for video processors to process video. In one sense they are all flawed in that what comes out is not what goes in. If people like the effect then it isn't flawed, it's a feature.

What we are looking for is a way to have it both ways (although not at the same time; that's impossible). There is always potential for video tweaking in the firmware.

It's best rely on your own eyes rather than on what other people report.

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Old 04-07-2013, 11:50 AM
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Just curious. I kept reading posts about HDMI 1 "possible" anomalies here. Thanks fellow members for responding.

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Old 04-07-2013, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

If you now intend to create 'movie only' file back-ups... You could also create .MKV file muxes complete with the original video and audio streams and chapter points. Then you could add text-based SRT subtitles and/or graphics based VOBsub subtitles to the .MKV files wink.gif

I want to transfer my old HD-DVD movies to movie only containers with both subtitles and chapters. Do you know of a guide that would walk me through this process?
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Flave View Post

I want to transfer my old HD-DVD movies to movie only containers with both subtitles and chapters. Do you know of a guide that would walk me through this process?
Although it can be pretty slow, MakeMKV can perform the entire process wink.gif

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Old 04-07-2013, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Flave View Post

I want to transfer my old HD-DVD movies to movie only containers with both subtitles and chapters. Do you know of a guide that would walk me through this process?

That's a bit off-topic here. This thread says "Blu-ray" but I'm sure you can get advice on HD-DVD also: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1336046/ripping-blu-rays-ii

I know the popular AnyDVD program still has HD-DVD capability.

First step: you have these discs already copied, or at least a working HD-DVD drive on your computer?

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Old 04-07-2013, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

Although it can be pretty slow, MakeMKV can perform the entire process wink.gif

I'm a little wary of this product as it is a time-limited beta. Does the container have to be MKV for chapters or can I use other containers? Thanks.
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post


I know the popular AnyDVD program still has HD-DVD capability.

First step: you have these discs already copied, or at least a working HD-DVD drive on your computer?

-Bill

Yes, I have both the XBox HD-DVD drive and AnyDVD HD installed.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I wonder if the 1080p/24 issue is not the player but certain displays just preferring 1080p/60 from the player instead if processing the 24hz themselves. It doesnt make much sense to me that the Marvell/Oppo would be more soft outputting whats on the disc, vs performing 2:3 pulldown.


1080p/24 issue yes is a mystery I almost returned my oppo until jgaster post http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432162/official-oppo-bdp-103-owners-thread/7470#post_23173315

maybe is not the player could be the tv or avr

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Old 04-07-2013, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by EaglePC View Post

1080p/24 issue yes is a mystery I almost returned my oppo until jgaster post http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432162/official-oppo-bdp-103-owners-thread/7470#post_23173315

maybe is not the player could be the tv or avr

I did some extensive testing today again, with WOW, Spears and Munsil and DVE. As far as the Oppo and my VT50 goes, I feel setting the Oppo to output 1080p/60 is best for my setup for other reasons. The VT50 artifacts in its 60hz mode, and then flickers in 96hz, so its best to let the Oppo do 2:3 on HDMI 1. I also did a lot of A/B, and I'm kinda thinking Im leaning towards Sharpness of +1 myself. I can see a small issue on a sharpness pattern, but in real HD content, I like what it does.

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Old 04-07-2013, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Flave View Post

I'm a little wary of this product as it is a time-limited beta. Does the container have to be MKV for chapters or can I use other containers? Thanks.

nothing to be wary of. even after the 30 days (or 21 days, I forget) it continues to work. Also, you can always uninstall and do a fresh re-install as well.
But right now, mind just says "you can continue to use this for a while" even though I'm 10 days over.

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Old 04-07-2013, 03:16 PM
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BTW, Im not sure if you will be able to tell with these pics, but there is some slight ringing that appears on parts of the letters on this pattern with Sharpness +1, granted it does snap everything into focus when you go from 0 to +1. Pick your poison.

Sharpness 0


Sharpness +1 (you see a slight white area on top of bottom of letters)

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Old 04-07-2013, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flave View Post

I'm a little wary of this product as it is a time-limited beta. Does the container have to be MKV for chapters or can I use other containers? Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckronengold View Post

nothing to be wary of. even after the 30 days (or 21 days, I forget) it continues to work. Also, you can always uninstall and do a fresh re-install as well.
But right now, mind just says "you can continue to use this for a while" even though I'm 10 days over.

Each time when I started the program it told about these 30 days. It seems they never end smile.gif

@Flave, I have done that transfer 2-3 weeks ago. I think I used MeGui for extracting and MKVToolNix for creating MKV`s. Well, for subtitles and chapters I prefer AVCHD`s now.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Recstar24 View Post

Make sure to contact oppo just to have it on file. Make sure customer service sends it directly to engineering. In addition to hdmi1 claymation choppiness I am now getting it on hdmi2 frown.gif so basically hdmi input with cable box is unwatchable. At least blu ray works frown.gif

On a more positive note, oshare is stupid easy to use and worked right off the bat for me. Now if I could just watch cable through hdmi input...

Im experiencing this as well on HDMI Input/HDMI 1 out with Dish Network. I had not been using the 103 as a VP for a bit, and just set stuff back up today. I reported to them via email a few mins ago. It's only happened once so far, but thats in 2 hours of watching and I just powercycled to fix.

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Old 04-07-2013, 03:36 PM
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@Flave, I have done that transfer 2-3 weeks ago. I think I used MeGui for extracting and MKVToolNix for creating MKV`s. Well, for subtitles and chapters I prefer AVCHD`s now.

I have the beta firmware installed -- doesn't this kill the AVCHD approach?

Well, if anyone's interested, I have just successfully converted my first HD-DVD -- Forbidden Planet. The steps were:

1. Install AnyDVD HD and rip (from XBox HD-DVD player plugged into USB port).
2. Use EVOdemux to demux the HD-DVD main feature EVO file(s) into video + audio + subtitles.
3. Use SUPread to convert subtitle files to BD compatible format.
4, Use ChapterGrabber to get chapter points.
5. Use tsMuxeR to put Humpty-Dumpty together again. Create an AVCHD folder that muxes the video, audio, converted subtitles, and manually entered chapter points.

And yes, the beta firmware will happily process this AVCHD folder.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:48 PM
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My review of the BDP-103, (for what it is worth.)

I have owned the player for just over two weeks now, enough time to learn all its features, and reasonably seat in the components. My first impressions are that this unit is built as good, or better than any other piece of my electronics. The core of my system is Rotel, so that is saying a lot. Overall, everything functions more responsively than my previous player, the Oppo BDP-83. The remote is better built, but the power cord is flimsy, about half the diameter of my BDP-83. If you are one who likes top-end cords, that will be a disappointment.

Out of the box, everything functions wonderfully. I found it easy to find the menu, verifying the firmware, BDP10X-38-1220. Disk loading time is quick. The default picture from HDMI1 is…

Well, I hate to disappoint, but I can only describe what I saw as blurry. I project the image with an Epson home cinema 5020 projector, onto a 115” screen, so if it looks bad, then it really looks bad. From blue ray disk, background colors resemble ink-smudges, almost to the point it hurt my eyes to look at them. The video image is so heavily processed, the picture so slowed, that words no longer match the lips. I would describe the picture that I saw, as vary disappointing.

However… I did not package the unit up and send it back, although the pissed-off consumer in me was screaming to shove the player up Amazon’s ass. Instead, I dug back into the setup menu, toggled on an off a number of settings, until I found settings that apparently do not function correctly.

1080p24 Output – This setting is a big contributor to the soft picture. Instead of giving a wonderfully life-like smoothness, this setting distorts the focus, makes the picture jittery, and slows the picture down until the sound no longer matches the motion. It works perfectly in HDMI2 output, but collides horribly with the Qdeo processing out of HDMI1. Turn it off, and enjoy a huge difference in picture quality.

Deep Color HDMI1 – I am completely convinced this setting is the root of all the picture dropouts. As with the 1080p24 output, expanded color simply will not play nice with the Qdeo processing. Set it to 36bit, or 30bit, makes no difference. It simply will not work properly. Turn it off, and save yourself the headache. Most people will not appreciate the small increase in color accuracy anyway. Beyond that, everything seems to work as advertised.

My opinion so far; the unit is worth the large price tag. Stay away from the expanded color, and the 24p output and the unit should function as advertised.
And don’t try to run other electronics through it, to achieve a better picture. All you will do is create a headache for yourself.

So if you don't use 24p out what do you use?
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:49 PM
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Oppo service comes thru again, quickly on Sunday smile.gif
Quote:
This is a known issue with sending a 1080i signal to the player and the audio switches from multi-channel to stereo (and sometimes vice versa). We are working on resolving these errors through a future firmware release.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.

And then I asked basically to clarify, if that mean just channel changing from a DD 5.1 channel to a stereo channel, it may crop up, and here was the answer:
Quote:
Yes, that is correct. And the errors occur only with 1080i channels, not 720p or 480i/p channels.

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Old 04-07-2013, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

So if you don't use 24p out what do you use?

You turn it off and the player outputs 1080p/60hz.

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Old 04-07-2013, 03:52 PM
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You turn it off and the player outputs 1080p/60hz.

I though Blu ray were at 24 frame per seconds!
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:53 PM
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They are, but players can be made to output 1080p/24 or 1080p/60. Some older displays cant handle 24hz input, and then some of them dont process it properly even if they are rated for it. So, once again, you turn it off smile.gif

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Old 04-07-2013, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

They are, but players can be made to output 1080p/24 or 1080p/60. Some older displays cant handle 24hz input, and then some of them dont process it properly even if they are rated for it. So, once again, you turn it off smile.gif

I will try it but it seems my JVC DLA RS35U is handling it fine!
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Old 04-07-2013, 04:08 PM
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I will try it but it seems my JVC DLA RS35U is handling it fine!

All systems are different. Just have to test and find the best setting.

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Old 04-07-2013, 04:16 PM
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ChapterGrabber

Thank you! That`s a tool that I still didn`t know.
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Old 04-07-2013, 04:28 PM
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They are, but players can be made to output 1080p/24 or 1080p/60. Some older displays cant handle 24hz input, and then some of them dont process it properly even if they are rated for it. So, once again, you turn it off smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

All systems are different. Just have to test and find the best setting.


+1

There are many displays that do not handle 1080/24p correctly. Top of my head I can recall the Sony EX500 and the Vizio XVT full array tvs. According to Kevin Miller even the relatively new Panasonic VT50 has its quirks. It outputs 96Hz by first applying the 3:2 pulldown and then converting it to 96Hz. Very Odd. I pulled this info from Kevin Miller's review of the Samsung F8500 at tweak tv.
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:37 PM
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Im not sure if Kevin is right, there is some contention, but with my testing today it was my opinion just to turn 24p off in the Oppo and let it do the 2:3 pulldown. Thats what the test patterns and my eyes told me at least.

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Old 04-07-2013, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Im not sure if Kevin is right, there is some contention, but with my testing today it was my opinion just to turn 24p off in the Oppo and let it do the 2:3 pulldown. Thats what the test patterns and my eyes told me at least.

The Pioneer TV's handled 1080/24 conversion the best with their 72hz option. I am not sure why Panasonic didn't implement this. Given a lot of people prefer 60 over 96 in the Panasonic means they didn't haven't perfected 96 yet.

Now in comparing Panasonic to Oppo in doing 1080/24 to 60 it seems that both should do it very well. You are seeing that the Oppo does it better and that should be the case as Oppo's have always aced all of their processing tests by every review that I have seen. I have always let my Panasonic convert to 60 but thinking about those tests and reading your results I will see how the Oppo handles the duties.
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