Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 256 - AVS Forum
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post #7651 of 18007 Old 04-10-2013, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

The new Total Recall is known to have issues. It just so happen to be one of the first BDs I happen to watch on my 103 as well and the lip sync issues were hideous. Many a comment on this particular Bluray disk.
Hello all thanks fo the quick reply! I forgot that this disc had problems! Thanks for the heads up!
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post #7652 of 18007 Old 04-10-2013, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post

Hello all thanks fo the quick reply! I forgot that this disc had problems! Thanks for the heads up!

Try LPCM instead of Bitstream.

-Bill
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post #7653 of 18007 Old 04-10-2013, 07:39 PM
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Will d
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Try LPCM instead of Bitstream.

-Bill[/quote

Will do! thanks! I seem to recall that this disc plays nice with the PS3. That's prob because it is set to PCM out:)
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post #7654 of 18007 Old 04-10-2013, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Is there any 'harm' (PQ-wise) to turning 1080p24 output to OFF and have the player always output 1080p/60?

Right now, I have different setups (virtual inputs) depending on whether I'm playing a /30i, /60p source or /24p source. I have to tell my AVP(anthem D2v) to switch to 1080p/24 mode when playing a BD movie and 1080p60 for anything else. I'd like to simply my setup to have all video output from the Oppo and Anthem to be 1080p60. Though my Kuro takes in 24p and up-converts it to 72p, I'm not sure I can tell the difference between 60p and 72p on my plasma.

Any advantage in having the player to output at 24Hz?

Thanks,
David

I recommend you send 1080p/24 to your Anthem (set 1080p/24 AUTO in the OPPO). If you still want to send /60 to your display, let the Anthem do that.

The reason is that 1080p/24 is less bandwidth on the HDMI cable, so fewer potential problems during the movie (after the connection is initially set up). The conversion to /60 is a trivial process which the Anthem handles just fine.

For displays that can accept /24 and "do the right thing" with it the advantage is elimination of "cadence judder". The display has to be able to switch its refresh rate to a multiple of 24fps, and it has to NOT screw up in other ways such as using excess video processing time (which kills lip sync) or strange changes in video levels (some Samsung displays) or poor interaction with other processing in the display such as the problems some Panasonic displays have at 96fps refresh.

But even if the display screws up, you can still send /24 to the Anthem and just set the Anthem to output /60.



(Anybody who is seeing poor quality video with 1080p/24 output from the OPPO: The odds are EXCELLENT it is either your AVR or Display screwing up. There is no problem with 1080p/24 output from the OPPO.)
--Bob

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post #7655 of 18007 Old 04-10-2013, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Flave View Post


Cool, thanks.

Don't know if you saw my edit, but you might also want to point out that this is only available for NTFS drives.

Also, FYI Windows Vista and above has a utility if you want to create links yourself (although your procedure is MUCH easier):

MKLINK /H Link Target

Link specifies the new symbolic link name.
Target specifies the path (relative or absolute) that the new link refers to.

[Edit] I just tried this on my Oppo and it works brilliantly. If I knew where you lived I'd come over and kiss you on the mouth. Well, not really. smile.gif

 

Added the NTFS note to the original post - thanks again.

 

Vista and Win 7  both have the ability to hard and soft link (which I use with Dropbox - what a lifesaver). But yes, Foobar just does it all for you - it's brilliant. I tried several batch scripts I found online to try and automate the process before Foobar incorporated the function itself, but alas none of them worked.

 

...and your thanks is more than enough :P

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post #7656 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 03:18 AM
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I have heard that 2TB for an external hard drive is as big as the oppo can handle. Is it true? If so, can that be addressed in an update?
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post #7657 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehale View Post

Netflix,
Not sure what to think after I downloaded the new beta. Went to my favorite show - Terra Nova on Netflix- and it freezes at 30 seconds for 6 times in a row even after restarting at the beginning (Season 1 Episope 1 each and every time. I go to Vudu and I am maxed out for speed. I am always hardwired never wifi. I did a persistent storage reset and turned off the OPPO and began again. Terra Nova on Netflix hangs up at 30 seconds on Season 1 Episode 1. After many retry's (on resume play) it finally plays. Is this a buffering issue or more likely an HDMI cable issue? Before the Beta I had no issues whatsoever on Netflix. Terra Forma is HD 5.1. This is playing thru my Denon A100 5.1 but without issue before the beta. I have had the same setup since I first bought the OPPO when it first came out. So far no issues for the rest of the movie.
Dave

This is an Oppo problem with the new Public Beta.

With dual subs, stack'em in the corner and put on a jockstrap. Don't want EVERYTHING in the room jingling!
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post #7658 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by scottc1992 View Post

I have heard that 2TB for an external hard drive is as big as the oppo can handle. Is it true? If so, can that be addressed in an update?

No, that was true in previous players but not in the -103/105.

The current players have always supported GPT partitioning which allows discs larger than 2TB. There was a restriction for a while that partitions larger than 2TB were not seen, but this is corrected in the recent beta firmware.

-Bill
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post #7659 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

No, that was true in previous players but not in the -103/105.

The current players have always supported GPT partitioning which allows discs larger than 2TB. There was a restriction for a while that partitions larger than 2TB were not seen, but this is corrected in the recent beta firmware.

-Bill
And with any luck, exFAT formatted HDD's should improve stability and improve Mac and Win O/S cross compatibility...

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post #7660 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehale View Post

Netflix,
Not sure what to think now but at least after 26 minutes lipsync is very bad. Did the reverse then forward, no luck still bad lipsync and it froze again a few seconds later. Retried stopping, moving forward again; no luck lipsync issues and froze again a few seconds later. This one movie may be badly mastered. Other movies that I have watched do not have a lipsync issue so far but I have only seen a couple since the beta update.
I just received Universals 100th Anniversary Blu Ray Collection (25 movies). It is a pleasure to not see ANY trailers or commercials. This is well done. No hang-ups or issues after 6 movies -so far.
Dave

The problem with Netflix is that you have no way to know how badly they screwed up the content in any given stream. And boy do they get inventive! EXAMPLE: "Topsy-Turvy", HD Stream, 5.1 audio, has the Fronts and Side Surrounds reversed.

So you have to play a few different streams before deciding there's a problem in the playback as opposed to Netflix just having screwed up the file creation.
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post #7661 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewFG View Post

Thank you for the clear explanation. But it is still unclear to me whether (for Europe) the "sweet spot" alternative to 24p might not be 50Hz rather than 60Hz

Unless you like frame rate conversion artefacts 24 frame film i.e. 23.976Hz film on Blu-ray output at 50hz would be far from ideal. The reason 24 frame film works at 60Hz output is due to 2:3 pull down albeit with motion stutter but this doesn't apply to 50hz output.

I certainly wouldn't consider 50hz an alternative "sweet spot" for 24p Blu-ray film by any stretch because it isn't.

. . . .

24fps content played with PAL output is sped up to 25fps and frame doubled, resulting in 1080p/50 output. There is no pull-down, and no frame rate conversion artifacting that I'm aware of. This is standard treatment of 24fps in the PAL world.

That's why PAL versions of movies play in 96% of the playing time of NTSC versions. The slight increase in video speed is not noticed, but discs authored for the PAL market typically have their audio pitch adjusted.

The problem comes if you send /24 or /60 to a display that can only do a 50fps refresh rate. If the display can change its refresh rate to a multiple of 24 or a multiple of 30, then no problem -- with a multiple of 24 being preferable to avoid "cadence judder".

If your TV can only do a 50fps refresh rate, then you should set the OPPO to PAL output EVEN IF the TV will also accept /24 or /60 -- because the TV won't "do the right thing" with those.
--Bob

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post #7662 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by red hazard View Post

I fixed the no audio with BDP-103 HDMI output 1 by updating the Sharp HDTV LC-65D64U firmware after Googling Sharp firmware and finding one update on the Sharp site. I wasn't even aware that an HDTV this old (2007) could be updated. It required a flash drive formatted to FAT16.

Cool! What an odd HDMI bug in your old Sharp firmware! I can just see the Sharp engineers chuckling, "Let's see how long it takes for someone to notice THIS one!"
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post #7663 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The problem comes if you send /24 or /60 to a display that can only do a 50fps refresh rate. If the display can change its refresh rate to a multiple of 24 or a multiple of 30, then no problem -- with a multiple of 24 being preferable to avoid "cadence judder". If your TV can only do a 50fps refresh rate, then you should set the OPPO to PAL output EVEN IF the TV will also accept /24 or /60 -- because the TV won't "do the right thing" with those.

Hmmm.

My Tv is a European Sony KDL46HX85 model having the following specs. The first two bullets seem to imply that its core clock rate is N x 50Hz. But the True Cinema / Cinema Drive stuff (depending on whether this is just marketing BS) seem to imply that it also has a 24Hz core clock rate too. And the list of supported formats just say that it can convert anything to anything, but they don't say which is the underlying native format. Personally I would like to have the Oppo do the anything to anything conversion and let the Tv just show the picture at its native rate with the minimum of added processing in the Tv.

Motionflow XR 800 Hz
Frames per Second 200 Hz
24p True Cinema™
CineMotion/Cinema Drive

Video formats supported
1080/24p
480/60i
480/60p
576/50i
576/50p
720/24p
720/30p
720/50p
720/60p
1080/60i
1080/50i
1080/30p
1080/60p
1080/50p

So it would be good to know what would be the best settings in both the Oppo and the Tv.

Also I suppose one wants to avoid a situation the two devices are thrashing each other, where (say) the Oppo is doing "pull-up" and the Tv is doing "pull-down" just to bring everything back to square one again...
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post #7664 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewFG View Post

Hmmm.

My Tv is a European Sony KDL46HX85 model having the following specs. The first two bullets seem to imply that its core clock rate is N x 50Hz. But the True Cinema / Cinema Drive stuff (depending on whether this is just marketing BS) seem to imply that it also has a 24Hz core clock rate too.
If your Sony TV has any of it's post-processing options switched on... Switch them ALL OFF for the corresponding HDMI input your Oppo is connected to!

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post #7665 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 07:46 AM
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AndrewFG,
The thing to do is try the various options and see for yourself which is working best. The REASON you have to do that is that TV's don't just come with specs. They also come with bugs. So there's no pat answer as to what will work best unless you also know which bugs you bought. (See the owner's thread here for your model of TV.)

This is not just about European TVs. TVs sold into the US market also exhibit various forms of odd behavior (bugs). My classic example is the collection of Samsung TVs which, bizarrely, changed their black levels if you sent them 1080p/24. There's no logic to this sort of stuff -- bugs don't exist for reasons of logic.

If you know your TV can accept 1080p/24 and 1080p/60, as well as 1080p/25 and 1080p/50, and "do the right thing" with all of them then set TV System Multi and 1080p/24 Auto. You may be able to find answers in the owner's thread for your model of TV.

If you spot a problem, try turning off 1080/24 and changing to TV System PAL to see if that fixes it.
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post #7666 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I recommend you send 1080p/24 to your Anthem (set 1080p/24 AUTO in the OPPO). If you still want to send /60 to your display, let the Anthem do that.

The reason is that 1080p/24 is less bandwidth on the HDMI cable, so fewer potential problems during the movie (after the connection is initially set up). The conversion to /60 is a trivial process which the Anthem handles just fine.

For displays that can accept /24 and "do the right thing" with it the advantage is elimination of "cadence judder". The display has to be able to switch its refresh rate to a multiple of 24fps, and it has to NOT screw up in other ways such as using excess video processing time (which kills lip sync) or strange changes in video levels (some Samsung displays) or poor interaction with other processing in the display such as the problems some Panasonic displays have at 96fps refresh.

But even if the display screws up, you can still send /24 to the Anthem and just set the Anthem to output /60.



(Anybody who is seeing poor quality video with 1080p/24 output from the OPPO: The odds are EXCELLENT it is either your AVR or Display screwing up. There is no problem with 1080p/24 output from the OPPO.)
--Bob

Great post biggrin.gif

This should go in the FAQ.

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post #7667 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 09:35 AM
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I'm running Verizon Fios, native, through my player. I can't seem to get the 3D channel in the correct mode, as it is showing a split screen, top and bottom, even if I change the projector 3D format. Am I missing a setting within the player that I should be messing with?
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post #7668 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

24fps content played with PAL output is sped up to 25fps and frame doubled, resulting in 1080p/50 output. There is no pull-down, and no frame rate conversion artifacting that I'm aware of. This is standard treatment of 24fps in the PAL world.--Bob

Post #7641
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Originally Posted by dazzerxxx View Post

Usually "film"content i.e. DVD produced for PAL markets is sped up during the telecine process during production i.e. 24 to 25 frames (50 fields) and the audio adjusted accordingly. This is different to attempting frame rate conversion of 23.976 Blu-ray source in the player to 50hz output which is likely to result in nasty FRC artefacts. There is some 50hz Blu-ray film content but the vast majority of main features are 24p (23.976Hz) irrespective of region. SD trailers etc around the main feature may vary by region.

If you don't want to use "24p" (typically 23.876Hz) output then "60Hz" (typically 59.94Hz) with pull down would be more appropriate for 24p film source. The downside is noticeable motion stutter due to the unequal frame repeat cycle especially if you're not conditioned to watching film at "60hz" using pull down i.e. those conditioned to watching film created for PAL that uses an equal frame repeat cycle like 24p.

The most appropriate TV system setting on the Oppo is auto (multi) to avoid unnecessary FRC of content that uses different frame rates. If you don't want to use 24p for 24p Blu-ray content turn it off and it should be output at 60Hz(59.94Hz) with TV system in auto whilst PAL DVD or native 50hz HD content should be output correctly at 50hz.

The OP question related to 1080p/24 Blu-ray film being output at 50HZ from the Oppo and the answer is 1080p/24 Blu-ray at 50hz output from the Oppo introduces motion artefcats i.e. stutter/judder. It's easy enough to compare.

I was just watching Quantum of Solice 1080p/24 Blu-ray and at 50hz the Columbia Lady with torch at the start of the movie stutters as the image zooms out at 50Hz but motion is smooth at 23.976Hz. I observe similar motion artefacts throughout the movie. Hence the comment FRC at the player not the capability to telecine 24 frame film to PAL.

Living in the PAL world I'm sensitive to motion artefacts such as 2:3 or FRC stutter.
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post #7669 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 10:16 AM
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^ That should not be happening. The conversion of /24 content to /50 output doesn't involve anything which should cause stutter. It is just played faster.

There is something else going on here.
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post #7670 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ That should not be happening. The conversion of /24 content to /50 output doesn't involve anything which should cause stutter. It is just played faster.

There is something else going on here.
--Bob

That's not my understanding of player based frame rate conversion.

It's a problem observed and reported in the UK by new Oppo owners who change 1080p/24 output to off and forget to change default TV System from PAL. It's not just the Oppo but can be observed on a range of players that force 50Hz output of 1080p/24 Blu-ray film.
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post #7671 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 10:26 AM
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I think people are getting confused...

As far as I can determine, Bob is referring to how 23.976/24.000fps sources are re-encoded/authored to 25.000fps sources.

He is not referring to how the Oppo plays 23.976/24.000fps sources when it's been set to either of the 50Hz video output options...

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post #7672 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

I think people are getting confused...

As far as I can determine, Bob is referring to how 23.976/24.000fps sources are re-encoded/authored to 25.000fps sources.

He is not referring to how the Oppo plays 23.976/24.000fps sources when it's been set to either of the 50Hz video output options...

No confusion here. smile.gif My post that Bob quoted and responded to in #7697 was my reply to -
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewFG View Post

Thank you for the clear explanation. But it is still unclear to me whether (for Europe) the "sweet spot" alternative to 24p might not be 50Hz rather than 60Hz

As per my earlier post #7641 I'm referring to player based FRC.
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

He is not referring to how the Oppo plays 23.976/24.000fps sources when it's been set to either of the 50Hz video output options...

That's what he appears to be referring to in post #7705
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post #7673 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 01:44 PM
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For anyone who's interested in discussing CUE file support for the Oppo BDP-103/105. A dedicated topic can be found here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466929/oppo-bdp-105-and-cue-files

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post #7674 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 02:03 PM
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The .dst file played, but incorrectly. The center, LF & RF, and LFE played fine. The side surround channels we not playing all of the information. I tested it against the flac and the original sacd. The information that did play sounded louder and a bit fuller than the flac rip.

Something seemed off with my .dst extract compared to the .dff extract of the iso. The .dst complete album extract was much larger than the original iso which contains both the stereo and multichannel. I am solely after my 5.1 layer. If I have to have .dst files of the 5.1 layer larger than the iso, then this setup is not for me. Bear in mind that I have not ripped any of my sacd iso's to individual dsd files until a few days ago. There was no need to as I had no way of playing them. In fact, I don't even have flac rips of my sacd's. I like the ability to play my hirez dvd-audio iso's through my Oppo 93, and am patiently waiting to have similar capability with my sacd collection.

Not knowing all the variables, I am hoping that there's a mistake on my extraction for both dst and dff. But for now I am going to sit back and see what happens with this new feature of playing dsd files in the 103/105.

On a side note, I'm surprised that more people have not tried out this new feature and reported their findings.


I guess many users are not wanting to lose their sacd-r and avchd capability.
Could you please test your setup with the following mch DSD file types? I give you the appropriate commandlines for extracting audio track 1 from your iso:

1) DST-DFF sacd_extract -m -p -t1 -iImage.iso

2) uncompressed DFF sacd_extract -m -p -c -t1 -iImage.iso

3) uncompressed DSF sacd_extract -m -s -t1 -iImage.iso

The latest version (0.3.7) of sacd_extract is here: http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/downloads/list
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post #7675 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 05:03 PM
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Hello all,
Ok I just finished watching my 2nd blueray on my new 103. I have my player going out of HDMI 1, every setting in the middle except sharpness set to +1. I have the player going into my Anthem MRX 700 out to my old Panny PZ 58 700u. Wow I have never seen a better pic on my Panny! I also own a 83SE and I totally think that new 103 has a better sharper pic with moe POP! Also the colors seem more naturel. Am I crazy or is this the general consensus?
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post #7676 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by HeffeMusic View Post

Hello all,
Ok I just finished watching my 2nd blueray on my new 103. I have my player going out of HDMI 1, every setting in the middle except sharpness set to +1. I have the player going into my Anthem MRX 700 out to my old Panny PZ 58 700u. Wow I have never seen a better pic on my Panny! I also own a 83SE and I totally think that new 103 has a better sharper pic with moe POP! Also the colors seem more naturel. Am I crazy or is this the general consensus?

I would agree with everything you said except 'better' biggrin.gif

That's such a personal taste question. No argument at all that 103 HDMI 1 at +1 sharpness has
more 'pop' and more apparent sharpness. I'd say that could just about be called 'fact'.

But, to these old eyes, watching over time,103 HDMI +1 it looks a little 'processed' next to the 83 picture.
Personally I like what I perceive at the more 'subtle' picture of the 83 (or even 103 HDMI 1 at 0 sharpness).

But that's what's so interesting about human eyes and brains and images. What one responds to is
so individual.

The good news is they're all good.smile.gif. Then it's like asking; who's better, Stanley Kubrick or Martin Scorsese --
no wrong answer available.
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post #7677 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Sidetracked View Post

I would agree with everything you said except 'better' biggrin.gif

That's such a personal taste question. No argument at all that 103 HDMI 1 at +1 sharpness has
more 'pop' and more apparent sharpness. I'd say that could just about be called 'fact'.

But, to these old eyes, watching over time,103 HDMI +1 it looks a little 'processed' next to the 83 picture.
Personally I like what I perceive at the more 'subtle' picture of the 83 (or even 103 HDMI 1 at 0 sharpness).

But that's what's so interesting about human eyes and brains and images. What one responds to is
so individual.

The good news is they're all good.smile.gif. Then it's like asking; who's better, Stanley Kubrick or Martin Scorsese --
no wrong answer available.
Hello point taken. A lot of comparisons come to mind, Bach or Miles Davis, Stratocaster or Les Paul!

l
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post #7678 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 05:47 PM
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I'm running Verizon Fios, native, through my player. I can't seem to get the 3D channel in the correct mode, as it is showing a split screen, top and bottom, even if I change the projector 3D format. Am I missing a setting within the player that I should be messing with?
Anyone? 1 down, three rounds to go and I'd like to see the masters upscaled in 3d through the player. Thanks
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post #7679 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 07:07 PM
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Anyone? 1 down, three rounds to go and I'd like to see the masters upscaled in 3d through the player. Thanks
I don't have your equipment, but there is also a bug with DirecTV's 3D programming going through the Oppo inputs the last time I checked. (displayed side by side though) Maybe you can send an email to Oppo and see if they have a fix in the works.
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post #7680 of 18007 Old 04-11-2013, 07:12 PM
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I recommend you send 1080p/24 to your Anthem (set 1080p/24 AUTO in the OPPO). If you still want to send /60 to your display, let the Anthem do that.

The reason is that 1080p/24 is less bandwidth on the HDMI cable, so fewer potential problems during the movie (after the connection is initially set up). The conversion to /60 is a trivial process which the Anthem handles just fine.

For displays that can accept /24 and "do the right thing" with it the advantage is elimination of "cadence judder". The display has to be able to switch its refresh rate to a multiple of 24fps, and it has to NOT screw up in other ways such as using excess video processing time (which kills lip sync) or strange changes in video levels (some Samsung displays) or poor interaction with other processing in the display such as the problems some Panasonic displays have at 96fps refresh.

But even if the display screws up, you can still send /24 to the Anthem and just set the Anthem to output /60.



(Anybody who is seeing poor quality video with 1080p/24 output from the OPPO: The odds are EXCELLENT it is either your AVR or Display screwing up. There is no problem with 1080p/24 output from the OPPO.)
--Bob

 

Thanks Bob ...I agree that if you have cable problems, reducing the bandwidth is key to help resolve these problems. But if I do not have these problems, since I solved them when I replaced my 50ft cable to the TV with a 60ft Redmere cable, does it still make sense?

 

In my case, I want to reduce HDMI switching times by eliminating a resolution and frame rate change if I peg everything to 1080p/60. My cable box and Oppo now output to the same resolution/frame rate so switching between them is faster.


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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