Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 09:26 AM
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Another new, 15 minute, German YouTube on the BDP-103EU:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zDrTqPGoFw


--Bob
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post #812 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 09:34 AM
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Is there any way to play a Blu-Ray and add subtitles from an SRT file during playback?
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post #813 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 09:35 AM
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Is there a GUI you can use in conjunction with the OPPO players, like XBMC, JRiver, etc...? I have a lot of SD-DVD's (400) and I guess I would like to sit back on my couch and scroll through the cover art, titles, movie info, and just play a movie, music, whatever..., but it would be nice to play it thru the OPPO for the upconverting capabilities. Is this possible?

I had a BDP-83 and loved the unconverting on SD-DVD's. I got tired of popping in discs though, so I built a HTPC thinking this would eleviate my problem by converting all of my movies to MKV files and watching them with XBMC. However, I have been playing these movies now thru my HTPC and I don't like the quality I am seeing. I have used XBMC, Jriver, and a player that came with my blu-ray drive and none of them look as good as the BDP-83 on SD-DVD's....

So now I am contemplating on getting the 103 for that reason, and possibly abandon this HTPC idea. Any comments would be appreciated.
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post #814 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDIEB33 View Post

Is there a GUI you can use in conjunction with the OPPO players, like XBMC, JRiver, etc...? I have a lot of SD-DVD's (400) and I guess I would like to sit back on my couch and scroll through the cover art, titles, movie info, and just play a movie, music, whatever..., but it would be nice to play it thru the OPPO for the upconverting capabilities. Is this possible?
I had a BDP-83 and loved the unconverting on SD-DVD's. I got tired of popping in discs though, so I built a HTPC thinking this would eleviate my problem by converting all of my movies to MKV files and watching them with XBMC. However, I have been playing these movies now thru my HTPC and I don't like the quality I am seeing. I have used XBMC, Jriver, and a player that came with my blu-ray drive and none of them look as good as the BDP-83 on SD-DVD's....
So now I am contemplating on getting the 103 for that reason, and possibly abandon this HTPC idea. Any comments would be appreciated.

The only way to browse and access from the player is SMB, and neither folders nor ISO is supported for DVD.
You can "push" content to the player via DNLA from any server program that's capable of that. Sounds like you'd want to look into that route. The player's Gracenote data look-up does not work on files, only on shiny discs. So for the functionality you seek, you're still locked to a PC and software.
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post #815 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 09:56 AM
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Netflix Blog confirms Netflix Streaming Service now live this week in BOTH Sweden and Denmark:

http://nordicsblog.netflix.com

Still waiting for someone with a new BDP-103EU to confirm that the Netflix app works in parts of Europe where the Netflix streaming service is available. That would include the UK, Ireland, Sweden and Denmark for sure as of today.
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post #816 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Mathus View Post

Is there any way to play a Blu-Ray and add subtitles from an SRT file during playback?

There was an experimental and unsupported method for the BDP-93 but I have not tested it with the BDP-103 yet.

I was given permission to discuss it as long as I emphasized the "experimental and unsupported" part.

PM me if interested and I'll run some tests and get you the details.

-Bill
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post #817 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Sidetracked,
If you don't mind doing an additional experiment, could you check some of your key scenes using the HDMI 2 output of the 103? The HDMI 2 output does not use the Marvell video processor, but it has the same calibration levels as the HDMI 1 output (I.e., when using the default (0) Picture Adjustment values, it too matches the pixel values coming off the disc). If you still see some or all of the subtle differences (such as the brighter highlights) that would eliminate the Marvell as the cause for those.
--Bob

A very good suggestion. And the points you raise about white clipping are interesting as well. Believe me, I'd like to think the 103 is equal to or better than the 983 for SD DVD. I'd love to have 1 machine that can do it all.

To be clear, I'm a film-maker, so I trust my eyes, especially on material I created and know inside out. But I'm the first to admit I'm far from a technical wiz. When I'm mastering my DVDs I'm not the one sitting inputting the changes, nor would I know how to., I'm the one going. "No, the skin tone is too warm." or "can you make the contrast a little higher for this shot" or "the light level should be at the level that we barely see his left eye, but it's there" -- trying to make the image on their monitors match (or improve on) the film image.

I figured, since the 983 and 103 were both set to RGB (which I've repeatedly read on AVS is better with the 151, but I have to admit I did not test myself) they'd be outputting the same Luma range. Is there another setting on the 983 that would effect Luma range (I have all picture controls zeroed out)?

I will do the HDMI 2 output experiment when I get the chance, and also would happily look at any Luma adjustments on the 983 you would suggest to make sure they're in line. I'll also go over everything else and make sure all is equal and report back.

The last thing I want is to give an accidentally false or misleading "review".
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post #818 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by comicguy View Post

Bob,
While I appreciate your invaluable contribution to the oppo thread, what you posted about Amazon is completely wrong. They absolutely want to expand their service to as many devices and platforms as possible. HOWEVER, as you know there are many many things that need to be worked out to have this done. Suffice it to say that the "big dog" in this arena has considerable pull and influence.
On another note I have about 40 hours on my new 103. Newest configuration is having my 93 plugged into the hdmi input and playing an ISO file from the 93 to the 103.
Not sure if I see any quantifiable difference, but fun to play anyway.
Still have yet to put a disc in it yet though... :-)

I've written to Amazon many times asking why the Oppo players aren't supported and I've gotten nowhere. Furthermore, I know for a fact that Oppo has tried to get Amazon's service on their players and have hit a stone wall with the Washington based company.

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post #819 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 10:23 AM
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Sidetracked,
Believe me I appreciate your efforts to apply trained eyeballs to this. Unfortunately I do not have a 983, so I'm not sure what settings might be relevant. If you are using different inputs into your Display for the 983 and the 103, the setting might be over there, instead.

I've asked the other Beta Testers for suggestions re what might be worth checking since a number of them also have the 983.

Given what's going on in SD-DVD decoding, de-interlacing, and scaling the most likely places to see differences would be:

1) Scaling artifacts -- i.e., errors in the scaling itself

2) Sharpness

3) Noise reduction (kind of the opposite of (2) )

These come from the different types of math used in different approaches to scaling.

However, changes in color space -- including saturation and color temperature -- and changes in gray scale dynamic range and smoothness (Gamma) should NOT be happening. That's what leads me to believe there is a calibration settings difference we've not yet discovered (i.e., some setting in player or display which is affecting the 983 differently from the 103), or a bug. This is well worth the time to nail down. Particularly if there is a bug that needs fixing!

If for some reason your 983 was blocking Peak White Luma values (which your Display is willing to reproduce), and if that's the way you are used to viewing these discs, then the imagery from the 103 would show brighter glints and highlights -- cloud details, fire, sparks, bright backlights -- and this would also show as additional range in the high brightness end of colors. I.e., you would be able to distinguish between brighter steps of Red, Green, and Blue. Now it may not have been your intent to have those visible, but if the setup you were using to create this stuff didn't show them, you might not even have known they were being put on the disc.

This is just a guess of course.

Let's see what you spot with HDMI 2 when you get the chance, and in the meantime, the experts on the 983 may chime in on what settings to check.

And yes, for the Pioneer Kuro displays, the general consensus here at AVS is that RGB Video Level is the data format they render the best. I'm not sure there's consensus on the best Deep Color setting for use with those displays, but Deep Color OFF in the 103 should match what your 983 is producing.
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post #820 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 10:35 AM
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It appears my player has arrived! I won't be able to "play" with it for another few days but I'm quite eager and very much look forward to the new "toy". I have to say Oppo is TRULY an amazing company! The level of quality we are getting with these machines (I can only comment on the 93...so far) is ASTOUNDING for the money! Not only that but the support level is just first rate! One of my first DVD players was an Oppo (as it also played many other media formats at the time) and after doing HTPC for many years, I had to come back to a stand alone player and to whom?........OPPO! I almost feel like I'm stealing the player for what you get!!
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post #821 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by comicguy View Post

Bob,
While I appreciate your invaluable contribution to the oppo thread, what you posted about Amazon is completely wrong. They absolutely want to expand their service to as many devices and platforms as possible. HOWEVER, as you know there are many many things that need to be worked out to have this done. Suffice it to say that the "big dog" in this arena has considerable pull and influence.
Oh if it was that easy. These streaming host vendors can say one thing, and then act totally non responsive after you have applied, tested and are waiting on certification for a streaming app.

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post #822 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 12:32 PM
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The oppo BDP 103 is dong something right when decoding my 3D Blu-ray's. My experience has been that it has made a dramatic improvement out of my Panasonic VT-25.. 3D clarity is now as good IMO, as the 2D version of BD movies, and ghosting is not present. With the oppo, my 65" VT25 is now equivalent in IMO, to 3D theatrical rendition quality. Three Panasonic 3D Blu-ray players have been used with my 65VT25. A Panasonic DMP-BDT300 player, DMP-BDT 110 and a SC-BTT750, and I have noticed zero improved quality that I now see with the Oppo.

My experience is that ghosting is entirely in video display and not in the disc player. LCD panels or projectors, as a group have the most ghosting and I've never seen one yet that had zero ghosting, though Sony's $25,000 4K projector comes tantalizingly close to no ghosting, it's not quite perfect, though occurrances of ghosting are very brief... like no more than 2 seconds. Plasma panels can be very close to no ghosting, but aren't quite perfect if you are a good ghost-spotter. Only DLP displays (RPTVs and projectors) have produced ghost-free 3D in my experience and it doesn't matter if it's a $700 DLP projector or a $55,000 DLP projector operating at 144 Hz... none of them have displayed ghosting (using any 3D disc player I have had available) on the most challenging discs/sequences (most IMAX 3D titles are 3D torture tests, but there are spots in Captain America, Coraline, Hugo, and other 3D titles that are always ghosted unless you are using a DLP display). I need to see some of the latest generation plasmas to see if they have gotten better than previous model years though.

Ghosting happens when part of one 3D frame bleeds through to the image intended for the other eye. The disc player generates 2 frames from about 1.25 or 1.3 frames-worth of data. The 2 frames are completely unique once reconstructed. There should be no variation in that reconstruction because the reconstruction of the 2 frames from the 1.3 frames-worth of data follows very specific rules that aren't open to interpretation. And the frames are displayed one after the other so, in theory, they don't remain on the screen long enough to bleed through to the other eye. But LCD panels are the "slowest" display technology we have right now and that is apparently what leads to their higher frequency and visibility of ghosting compared to other display technologies.

I used to think that ghosting could come from a badly mastered disc or a disc player... but I have proven that to not be the case at all. The most problematic discs I have play ghost-free on DLP displays and the disc players I thought were producing more ghosting than the next disc player have all been ghost-free when used with DLP displays. I'm not a DLP fanatic, per se, but I do find it interesting that getting ghost-free 3D Blu-ray images has only happened with DLP displays (a number of projectors at a wide range of prices and 2 different model year RPTVs from Mitsubishi).

I'm not saying you didn't see some improvement --- but if you did, its not what I've experienced in 100s of hours of trying to get to the bottom of ghosting. Early-on, it was thought that ghosting was caused by the 3D glasses so one of the outfits that makes test/setup discs created some test patterns that would measure ghosting by giving you something to look at through the 3D glasses and the amount of ghosting would be revealed as a percentage. So you might have one pair of 3D glasses that measured 2% leakage in green, 4% in red and 7% in blue while a different brand of glasses might measure 2%, 9% and 14%. What blew that hypothesis out of the water was that none of the DLP displays that were tested produced ghosting, even if the 3D glasses had high leakages. So go figure. The second nail in the coffin for that hypothesis appeared when "universal" 3D glasses began appearing. You could take a pair of universal glasses with very low leakage percentages and use them with an LCD panel, LCD projector, or plasma panel and still see ghosting in the trouble-spots those displays had when using manufacturer-branded glasses with higher leakages.

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post #823 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

The BDP-93 plays them but the BDP-103 does not. I'll forward this link to Oppo so they can look into it.

Already forwarded to Oppo!
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanping09 View Post

I can confirm that your FLACs fail to play on 103, but play with no problem on 93. However, when I open your file using FLAC Frontend v1.7.1 and select the "Test", it stops with error message "Path/File access error". So maybe these files are not authorized correctly?

I tested the same files on my BDP-93 and BDP-95 and they played without incident. I used Exact Audio Copy to create the files a 2nd time on 3 different drives (2 Seagate and 1 Western Digital) and again they refused to play on the BDP-103, but played on my BDP-93 and BDP-95. This is really puzzling and hopefully Oppo can figure this out during my warranty period, because I don't know how many of the remaining 22,000+ FLAC files I have will exhibit this behavior on the BDP-103.

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post #824 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 12:33 PM
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Since the 103 is a Digital Media Renderer not just a DMP, could you not push SD_DVD MKV files thru the OPPO from say XBMC?
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post #825 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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XBMC doesn't have any DLNA capabilities that I know of. You will need to use another application which does.
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post #826 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 01:21 PM
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To my knowledge, XBMC DOES in fact support DLNA. I will report my findings on the matter of XBMC within the next few days.
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post #827 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Already forwarded to Oppo!
I tested the same files on my BDP-93 and BDP-95 and they played without incident. I used Exact Audio Copy to create the files a 2nd time on 3 different drives (2 Seagate and 1 Western Digital) and again they refused to play on the BDP-103, but played on my BDP-93 and BDP-95. This is really puzzling and hopefully Oppo can figure this out during my warranty period, because I don't know how many of the remaining 22,000+ FLAC files I have will exhibit this behavior on the BDP-103.

I have roughly 10,000 FLAC files in the full range of flavors and have yet to find one that doesn't play.

I took both your files and used FLAC Frontend to decode to WAV, that plays fine on the 103. Then I used Foobar2000 to re-encode to FLAC and that also plays great. So it's clearly some encoding issue on the original files. Hard to say what. But I do notice that they have slightly different file sizes after decoding -> re-encoding.
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post #828 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Yep. What comes in on the HDMI Inputs is processed. But don't expect much in the way of quality from something coming in that originated as S-video.
Also, S-video doesn't carry audio, and the OPPO can't play video from an HDMI Input along with audio from any other method. So if your converter doesn't also accept and combine in some audio you'll need to go around the OPPO for your audio connection.
--Bob

Thanks Bob , and Neuromancer too , for your replies . Missed the catch with the Audio over HDMI on the Input . Have to screw my thinking cap on tight now to see how I'm going to get around this .
Good tip about the Converter capabilities .Have to check out the unit I was looking into .

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post #829 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

My experience is that ghosting is entirely in video display and not in the disc player. LCD panels or projectors, as a group have the most ghosting and I've never seen one yet that had zero ghosting, though Sony's $25,000 4K projector comes tantalizingly close to no ghosting, it's not quite perfect, though occurrances of ghosting are very brief... like no more than 2 seconds. Plasma panels can be very close to no ghosting, but aren't quite perfect if you are a good ghost-spotter. Only DLP displays (RPTVs and projectors) have produced ghost-free 3D in my experience and it doesn't matter if it's a $700 DLP projector or a $55,000 DLP projector operating at 144 Hz... none of them have displayed ghosting (using any 3D disc player I have had available) on the most challenging discs/sequences (most IMAX 3D titles are 3D torture tests, but there are spots in Captain America, Coraline, Hugo, and other 3D titles that are always ghosted unless you are using a DLP display). I need to see some of the latest generation plasmas to see if they have gotten better than previous model years though.
Ghosting happens when part of one 3D frame bleeds through to the image intended for the other eye. The disc player generates 2 frames from about 1.25 or 1.3 frames-worth of data. The 2 frames are completely unique once reconstructed. There should be no variation in that reconstruction because the reconstruction of the 2 frames from the 1.3 frames-worth of data follows very specific rules that aren't open to interpretation. And the frames are displayed one after the other so, in theory, they don't remain on the screen long enough to bleed through to the other eye. But LCD panels are the "slowest" display technology we have right now and that is apparently what leads to their higher frequency and visibility of ghosting compared to other display technologies.
I used to think that ghosting could come from a badly mastered disc or a disc player... but I have proven that to not be the case at all. The most problematic discs I have play ghost-free on DLP displays and the disc players I thought were producing more ghosting than the next disc player have all been ghost-free when used with DLP displays. I'm not a DLP fanatic, per se, but I do find it interesting that getting ghost-free 3D Blu-ray images has only happened with DLP displays (a number of projectors at a wide range of prices and 2 different model year RPTVs from Mitsubishi).
I'm not saying you didn't see some improvement --- but if you did, its not what I've experienced in 100s of hours of trying to get to the bottom of ghosting. Early-on, it was thought that ghosting was caused by the 3D glasses so one of the outfits that makes test/setup discs created some test patterns that would measure ghosting by giving you something to look at through the 3D glasses and the amount of ghosting would be revealed as a percentage. So you might have one pair of 3D glasses that measured 2% leakage in green, 4% in red and 7% in blue while a different brand of glasses might measure 2%, 9% and 14%. What blew that hypothesis out of the water was that none of the DLP displays that were tested produced ghosting, even if the 3D glasses had high leakages. So go figure. The second nail in the coffin for that hypothesis appeared when "universal" 3D glasses began appearing. You could take a pair of universal glasses with very low leakage percentages and use them with an LCD panel, LCD projector, or plasma panel and still see ghosting in the trouble-spots those displays had when using manufacturer-branded glasses with higher leakages.
Your evaluation experiences regarding 3D ghosting is similar to my findings up to this point. Have you experienced 3D playback on the BDP 103 on different display technologies? To date I have played only six Blu-ray 3D features on the Oppo 103 and I have not experienced ghosting. I'm not saying this lightly and I'm not saying it won't happen. My past personal viewing experiences are currently from 106 blu-ray 3D movies in my collection viewing them close to a 3 years period in time. Ghosting can very likely show up on different titles I haven't tried, but it hasn't been noticed by me yet and I think I'm extremely sensitive towards it. Don't know what quality effect the Oppo 103 is having on my Panasonic 65VT25 but I am enjoying the results. From my past experiences with the Sony HMZT-1, I've also visually verified that there is no visible ghosting present from the encodes authored on my 3D Blu-ray's.

Regards,

Paul
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post #830 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I have roughly 10,000 FLAC files in the full range of flavors and have yet to find one that doesn't play.
I took both your files and used FLAC Frontend to decode to WAV, that plays fine on the 103. Then I used Foobar2000 to re-encode to FLAC and that also plays great. So it's clearly some encoding issue on the original files. Hard to say what. But I do notice that they have slightly different file sizes after decoding -> re-encoding.

Well I am perplexed by this recent event. One of the CDs is from the Polygram lable and the other from Windham Hill. They even play ok on my Panasonic DMP-BDT500.confused.gif I just don't know what is special about these CDs and potentially more.

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post #831 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Did you recently upgrade your Exact Audio Copy? It is possible that a new release of the software is causing authoring issues which are being picked up by the BDP-103 but not on other devices like the BDP-93.
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post #832 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 05:06 PM
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Is there a region free mod available? If not when do we expect a mod to be available?
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post #833 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 05:33 PM
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^ For SD-DVD Region-Free, the simple, and free, Super Disc solution works on the 103. See the FAQ (link at the top of the first post of this thread).

For Blu-ray Region-Free, we've not yet had any posts reporting receipt of a hardware mod from any of the usual vendors. I've seen some indications on European sites that hardware mods are expected in November.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #834 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidetracked View Post

I also noticed a very slight color difference. The 103 added just a bit of warmth to the color temperature. Very, very subtle, not bad looking, but again, not quite as accurate.

I just noticed this exact same thing last night as well!

I had set up my DSLR camera on a tripod and fixed the color temp, aperture, shutter, and focus to see if I could spot a different between the upscaling of the 93 and the 103. I used the 'Detail' test video from the Silcon Optix HQV DVD. I took about 10 pictures of the same spot on both the 93 and 103. When I imported the RAW image files without editing into 2 layers in Photoshop, I was trying to see if I could see detail differences, but the thing I noticed right away is the 103 image looked slightly warmer, or as I saw it removed a tiny bit of magenta from the image.

I had both the 93 and the 103 set to 1080p, YCbCr 4:4:4 Deep color 36 output to my calibrated JVC RS-40 (calibrated with the 93 using the same settings).

Unfortunately, my 93 is now gone to test more and see if color space or anything makes a difference.
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post #835 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDDIEB33 View Post

Is there a GUI you can use in conjunction with the OPPO players, like XBMC, JRiver, etc...? I have a lot of SD-DVD's (400) and I guess I would like to sit back on my couch and scroll through the cover art, titles, movie info, and just play a movie, music, whatever..., but it would be nice to play it thru the OPPO for the upconverting capabilities. Is this possible?
I had a BDP-83 and loved the unconverting on SD-DVD's. I got tired of popping in discs though, so I built a HTPC thinking this would eleviate my problem by converting all of my movies to MKV files and watching them with XBMC. However, I have been playing these movies now thru my HTPC and I don't like the quality I am seeing. I have used XBMC, Jriver, and a player that came with my blu-ray drive and none of them look as good as the BDP-83 on SD-DVD's....
So now I am contemplating on getting the 103 for that reason, and possibly abandon this HTPC idea. Any comments would be appreciated.

You are the second person to ask for this feature recently. I saw something like this with Kaleidescape and it was impressive. Could you also post this request in the features you'd like in the next Oppo player?

I don't know if it would change anything but could you feed your HTPC out into the HDMI in on the Oppo? I don't know if that would improve the quality or not but I'd like to know.
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post #836 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danieljoseph View Post

Is there a region free mod available? If not when do we expect a mod to be available?

What we know is shown in the FAQ: Region Free Modifications

-Bill
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post #837 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Well I am perplexed by this recent event. One of the CDs is from the Polygram lable and the other from Windham Hill. They even play ok on my Panasonic DMP-BDT500.confused.gif I just don't know what is special about these CDs and potentially more.

Could be something as simple as incorrect tag data. Since I noticed a change in file size (~100KB) when re-encoding, that could be one possible cause. Did your originals have any tag settings? In any case it has nothing to do with your source material, it's the encoding. But given that other players can handle them there must be something Oppo can figure out.
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post #838 of 18014 Old 10-16-2012, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobearQSI View Post

I had set up my DSLR camera on a tripod and fixed the color temp, aperture, shutter, and focus to see if I could spot a different between the upscaling of the 93 and the 103. I used the 'Detail' test video from the Silcon Optix HQV DVD. I took about 10 pictures of the same spot on both the 93 and 103. When I imported the RAW image files without editing into 2 layers in Photoshop, I was trying to see if I could see detail differences, but the thing I noticed right away is the 103 image looked slightly warmer, or as I saw it removed a tiny bit of magenta from the image.
I had both the 93 and the 103 set to 1080p, YCbCr 4:4:4 Deep color 36 output to my calibrated JVC RS-40 (calibrated with the 93 using the same settings).
Unfortunately, my 93 is now gone to test more and see if color space or anything makes a difference.

Here are the 2 images I captured from the 93 and 103 showing the color difference. My 93 was out the door before I had time to look at the pictures, but I'm 95% sure the output format settings were the same between the two. The camera settings I'm certain were the same - everything was locked in and nothing changed between taking the 93 and 103 pictures. All 10 pictures from the 93 had the same color and all 10 from the 103 had the same, different coloring.

93_103_colors.jpg

This is just an observation. I wasn't going to say anything as I couldn't verify my settings or repeat the test directly into the projector, until someone else posted that they saw a color difference between the 103 and 983.

DISCLAIMER: Your monitor may vary, and these images should only be used to see the color difference between the two. My monitor for photo editing is better calibrated than my projector, and I could easily see the color difference there. The point is, they should have been identical in regards to color.
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post #839 of 18014 Old 10-17-2012, 12:14 AM
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which player is better oppo bdp-93 or bdp-103?
If I had a choice which one should I buy.
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post #840 of 18014 Old 10-17-2012, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Sidetracked,
If you don't mind doing an additional experiment, could you check some of your key scenes using the HDMI 2 output of the 103? The HDMI 2 output does not use the Marvell video processor, but it has the same calibration levels as the HDMI 1 output (I.e., when using the default (0) Picture Adjustment values, it too matches the pixel values coming off the disc). If you still see some or all of the subtle differences (such as the brighter highlights) that would eliminate the Marvell as the cause for those.
--Bob

Hi Bob (et al),

Just spent some time in a dark room, plugging each player into the same input, and watching the same scenes (and freezing frames) on the 983, and the 103 through the QDEO on HDMI 1 and the Mediatek on HDMI 2. I made sure all settings were matched between the machines. I tried as best as I could to let go of my first impressions and just see what I saw.

Everything I'm about to report is subjective and unscientific. I didn't have meters measuring brightness, I wasn't running a test disc, just carefully watching scenes from a couple of films I directed and of which I oversaw the video-mastering.

And to really do this right I could have spent many more hours, watching, re-watching, going over more material, having someone else do the switching so I couldn't be influenced by pre-conceived notions, etc.

What I saw;

Each chip had slight differences. It's own 'flavor' if you will. Different strengths and weaknesses.

That said, the differences seemed smaller and less dramatic this time. Probably because they were all going through the same input (?). Or maybe my eyes were just getting more used to seeing the scenes over and over?

The QDEO (HDMI 1 on the 103) still had the most contrasty image. Some minor image detail seemed to be lost in dark areas because they'd fall off more completely to black. Also, the color seemed the warmest, with skin tones edging to red a tiny bit more. It still felt like the bright highlights were brighter, but that could be an illusion caused by the extra contrast; if the darker areas are more dark, the brights might just seem brighter. It also seemed to edge towards artificially sharp in certain shots. None the less, I liked the image more this go-round, it just looked a tiny bit less 'cinematic' and a little bit less like the film as I know it as compared to the 983. Please understand, I am talking VERY subtle differences. If I didn't know the films so wel I probably wouldn't have noticed.

The Mediatek (HDMI 2 on the 103) actually really took me off guard with how good it was. It was the least contrasty of the 3, and to my eye produced a very slightly more smooth 'film-like' image than the QDEO. It was in many ways closer to the 983 in 'feel'. That said, it had a little less detail overall and the color rendering didn't seem quite as dead on to my eye as the 983, but it was very close. In some ways I found it more 'cinematic' and was less aware of the chip 'doing something' to the image than the QDEO. Again, we're talking small, subtle differences.

The 983 was still my favorite balance of all the elements (contrast, color, sharpness vs. natural film quality). But it was closer this time. And there were definitely individual shots that were better on the QDEO or the Mediatek. But that was sometimes because their innate tendencies would 'fix' things I wasn't crazy about in the original transfer (e.g. there was a shot I've always felt was just a tiny bit too contrasty in the final master, at least as I've gotten used to seeing it on the 983. That shot actually looked better on the Mediatek. Similarly, the slightly more contrasty QDEO gave a taste of dramatic depth to scenes that were more flatly shot that was certainly appealing).

What does it all mean? I don't know. Just reporting what my very subjective eyes are saying. If the 983 was an "A" to my eye, the QDEO and Mediatek were both "A-".
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