Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 298 - AVS Forum
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post #8911 of 19516 Old 05-16-2013, 10:28 PM
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The test reports of the Oppo (perfect) and a Sony player (failed) were posted recently, maybe 1 page back. Depending on the standard used, deltaE > 2.5 is said to be visible. You will not say OMG that's awful, you will most likely just get the wrong colors and not realize or think it was artistic intent. If used as a calibration tool it would not be acceptable.

I should add that color is just one aspect and there are many other core video criteria and image processing tricks such as noise reduction, sharpening, and de-interlacing (important for non-1080p sources). Just read some of the reviews on the Home Theater site that was linked to get an idea.

We went through the same growing pains with DVD players, but much worse. They couldn't even get the basic video levels right. After manufacturers finally started getting it right, the jump to BD players was not an overnight success. Just saying this so you realize it's not exactly child's play to get a perfect score on these tests.

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post #8912 of 19516 Old 05-16-2013, 10:52 PM
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then is not as stated by some people that all BR players are the same because the signal is digital and nothing bothers it,there are processors and other stuff to make them work better than others,like you all know im a noob on this thing,so I have another question,how about the sound? like dts-hd for example..are all the same too or there are tweaks and processors too?
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post #8913 of 19516 Old 05-16-2013, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

The test reports of the Oppo (perfect) and a Sony player (failed) were posted recently, maybe 1 page back. deltaE > 2.5 is said to be visible (depends on the standard used). You will not say OMG that's awful, you will most likely just get the wrong colors and not realize or just figure the cinematographer was smoking something. If used as a calibration tool it would not be acceptable.

We went through the same growing pains with DVD players, but much worse. After manufacturers finally started getting it right, the jump to BD players was not an overnight success. Just saying this so you realize it's not exactly child's play to get a perfect score on these tests.

I think you are referring to my post. My comment about failure was in relation to the cadence and transition de-interlacing, not the deltaE. Based on the posted test reports, I consider the deltaE of the Sony to be good to excellent, and the deltaE of the Oppo to be perfect.

Considering that most video displays cannot be perfectly calibrated for a variety of reasons including inaccurate color primaries and the expense vs. accuracy of spectrophotometers and colorimeters, I believe that in most cases the small deltaEs on the output from a Blu-ray player are probably completely insignificant. Composite and S-video outputs on DVD, VHS, Beta, and LaserDisc used to be all over the place on output levels. Each input needed to be individually calibrated for each individual device to achieve acceptable PQ. Since component, DVI, and HDMI have come along I find that calibration settings for input from one device are very close to accurate for any other devices on other inputs.

I used my Sony BDP-S1 to calibrate my video display. I'm wondering if I will find any variation when switching to the Oppo BDP-103 as a result of any deltaE error on the BDP-S1. I've never seen any deltaE measurements on it so I really don't know how accurate the output on it is.
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post #8914 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 12:04 AM
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PRBR,
Again you are talking about sending a digital signal (DTS or Dolby bitstream) to the receiver via HDMI? In that case it must be transmitted unmolested or you will have serious problems. All players that are capable of bitstreaming should "sound" the same. Not too many people will argue that. But you are not hearing the player really in that case, it is the receiver doing the work.

Many people have their players setup to send audio as PCM (via HDMI or other digital link) which means the player must decode the bitstream, but it is still transmitted digitally. This should also be perfect, assuming no bugs in the decoder. But bugs happen, usually due to ridiculously complex rules in the DTS formats which manufacturers have trouble following, that could result in sounds being played at incorrect levels in some or all speakers.

Having said that players tend to have less decoding difficulties than receivers for some reason, so PCM is often the way to go. But still the sound quality will be determined by the digital signal processing, DACs and analog circuitry of the receiver, not the player.

On the other hand if you are talking about using a player's ANALOG output then it becomes subject to all the above mentioned factors. There are many different opinions on whether they really matter to the human ear, so at this point I bow out of the debate.
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post #8915 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

Considering that most video displays cannot be perfectly calibrated for a variety of reasons including inaccurate color primaries and the expense vs. accuracy of spectrophotometers and colorimeters, I believe that in most cases the small deltaEs on the output from a Blu-ray player are probably completely insignificant. Composite and S-video outputs on DVD, VHS, Beta, and LaserDisc used to be all over the place on output levels. Each input needed to be individually calibrated for each individual device to achieve acceptable PQ. Since component, DVI, and HDMI have come along I find that calibration settings for input from one device are very close to accurate for any other devices on other inputs.

I agree, plus those type of colorspace errors can be accounted for in calibration of the video chain, it just takes more work. I think people into calibration obsess much more over profiling their meters with a more expensive instrument!

It will be interesting to see if your new player change will mess with your calibration. At least one person has gone back to an older Oppo after trying the 103 due to personal preference, and some regret selling their old player.

Speaking of that, has there been any new 103 firmware affecting video output? I've been tuned out of it for the past month or so.

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post #8916 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 02:00 AM
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Anybody who knows if it is possible through some technical vizardry to manipulate the subtiles on Netflix content streamed via the Oppo? As they are yellow and fairly large, I find them intrusive compared with the way they are displayed via the Apple TV box (white and smaller). However, I much prefer to use the Oppo as it ultimately provides a more satisfying viewing experience (even if the picture quality may superficially seem virtually identical).
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post #8917 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

720x576 is PAL. It is not an HD format but an SD one. That is the widescreen PAL output. 576 is the normal PAL horizontal resolution and equivalent to 480 for NTSC. PAL always had higher resolution than NTSC (part of the reason is because it came along later). That's why a lot of PAL standard DVDs can upscale a lot better than NTSC ones.
When not on a DVD disc... a resolution of 720x576 pixels does not have to be exclusively PAL...

Indeed, back in the days when it was popular to back-up DVD's to MPEG-4 using DivX or Xvid, it was quite popular for people to crop away the black mattes and create all kinds of strange video resolutions. Hence, correctly identifying and displaying the videos frequency is more reliable.

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post #8918 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 05:53 AM
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Hey folks,103 is sounding great. One glitch so far:
DSD from HDMI 2 doesn't seem to be working.....???? unless I'm missing something.

SACD playback has DSD selected in setup.

"Split A/V (recommended) – Use HDMI 1 OUT as the dedicated video output port and
HDMI 2 OUT as the dedicated audio output port. This setting will ensure the best possible
picture quality and the highest possible audio resolution."

HDMI 1/2 both sending PCM to receiver....... Onkyo TX-NR809 .....any others with this problem?

Here is my current gear: Onkyo TX-NR809 Receiver, CarverTFM-35 Front Amp, Sony EX55-720 3D TV, Oppo BDP-103 3D Blu-Ray Player, Panasonic DMB-BD50 Blu-Ray Player (for Cinavia encrusted copy playback), Polk RTI-12 Fronts, Polk LSiM703 Rears, Polk DSW Pro600, Older Infinity Center.
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post #8919 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrogeeker View Post

How do u rip your dvda's to ISO (on a Mac preferably).. Would love to be able to backup my collection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

The most common solution is DVDFab "DVD Copy" in clone mode. Very few others can do it. AnyDVD cannot.

Agree, DVDFab's DVD Copy in Clone mode will rip DVD-A to ISO (make sure the "Copy DVD-Video Data Only" box is unticked). The ISO can then be burned to a DVD-R disc for playback on the 103 using ImgBurn or other software. ImgBurn works reliably and is free. DVDFab is not free but has a 30-day trial period, then you must purchase a 2-year license. I use Windows, no idea if they work on a Mac.
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post #8920 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DFREAK View Post

Hey folks,103 is sounding great. One glitch so far:
DSD from HDMI 2 doesn't seem to be working.....???? unless I'm missing something.

SACD playback has DSD selected in setup.

"Split A/V (recommended) – Use HDMI 1 OUT as the dedicated video output port and
HDMI 2 OUT as the dedicated audio output port. This setting will ensure the best possible
picture quality and the highest possible audio resolution."

HDMI 1/2 both sending PCM to receiver....... Onkyo TX-NR809 .....any others with this problem?

Not following you completely. If you don't need to run a cable directly to you display and the second output to your AVR (for non 1.4 compliant AVRs) then you only need to use HDMI1 out to your Onkyo.

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post #8921 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

I agree, plus those type of colorspace errors can be accounted for in calibration of the video chain, it just takes more work. I think people into calibration obsess much more over profiling their meters with a more expensive instrument!

It will be interesting to see if your new player change will mess with your calibration. At least one person has gone back to an older Oppo after trying the 103 due to personal preference, and some regret selling their old player.

Speaking of that, has there been any new 103 firmware affecting video output? I've been tuned out of it for the past month or so.

The latest update fixes the 422 and 444 color space problems on HDMI 2 Source Direct or at least it did on my setup (Oppo> Lumagen Radiance vp> Sharp Elite). Qdeo always on in Source Direct from HDMI 1 appears to have no change. Still have to have the Radiance sharpness setting at 2-3x what I use from HDMI 2.
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post #8922 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

Not following you completely. If you don't need to run a cable directly to you display and the second output to your AVR (for non 1.4 compliant AVRs) then you only need to use HDMI1 out to your Onkyo.

I had HDMI set to Auto so it was sending bitstream.
Changed Auto to LPCM so HDMI 2 did start sending DSD as it should.
Didn't notice a difference in sound so I'll leave it on Auto and I won't use both HDMI outs. I guess Auto sends bitstream on both HDMI outs unless you select LPCM.
Thanks

Here is my current gear: Onkyo TX-NR809 Receiver, CarverTFM-35 Front Amp, Sony EX55-720 3D TV, Oppo BDP-103 3D Blu-Ray Player, Panasonic DMB-BD50 Blu-Ray Player (for Cinavia encrusted copy playback), Polk RTI-12 Fronts, Polk LSiM703 Rears, Polk DSW Pro600, Older Infinity Center.
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post #8923 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by PRBR View Post

so that defeats what everybody said about blu ray picture quality (a $80 blu ray player will do the same as a $500 blu ray player) because its a digital signal ans 1's and 0's are will always be 1's and 0's so there is no difference between them and.as they always said..if you see a diference is a placebo effect!!! so....if you have both units and you said you see a much sharper and more detailed image with the oppo then I don't know what to think,but thanks for your advise.

Well - - it's not the placebo effect to me. Where the difference really showed was in the exact same Bluray disc played on my projector (100" Diagonal Screen) with both players - - in which I compared the OPPO to the Sony. There was a noticeable sharpness to the picture with the OPPO compared to the Sony - - identical setup.

On my smaller 65" Samsung ES8000 - - I do not think the difference is that great.

Do I understand your premise correctly - - an $80 Bluray player will provide the same picture quality as a $500 OPPO? Because it's binary - - bits & bytes?
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post #8924 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Well - - it's not the placebo effect to me. Where the difference really showed was in the exact same Bluray disc played on my projector (100" Diagonal Screen) with both players - - in which I compared the OPPO to the Sony. There was a noticeable sharpness to the picture with the OPPO compared to the Sony - - identical setup.

On my smaller 65" Samsung ES8000 - - I do not think the difference is that great.

Do I understand your premise correctly - - an $80 Bluray player will provide the same picture quality as a $500 OPPO? Because it's binary - - bits & bytes?

that is what i understand by reading around the forum but i dont speak or write good english so maybe i misundertood the statement about all the blue ray players been equal is respect to picture quality.thanks for the info.
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post #8925 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post

Indeed... If you play a 720x576 source, and press the 'Info' button you'll see that Oppo uses the term 'PAL' too...

I noticed the PAL indication last night when I was watching one of my BDs of the Danish version of The Killing. The disc video was encoded in MPEG-4 AVC but I have no idea what the resolution is. Whatever it is, the PQ of every episode of the show has been outstanding. My 103's Info function showed the video as "AVC BDMV PAL 16:9."
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post #8926 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by PRBR View Post

that is what i understand by reading around the forum but i dont speak or write good english so maybe i misundertood the statement about all the blue ray players been equal is respect to picture quality.thanks for the info.

No problema.

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post #8927 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 01:59 PM
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What is the best Crossover Frequency selections? Right now, I have it set to 80Hz.

I put all of the 4 speaker setting to LARGE except for the Center Channel speaker (SMALL).

What do you recommend for the Crossover Frequency selection?
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post #8928 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

What is the best Crossover Frequency selections? Right now, I have it set to 80Hz.

I put all of the 4 speaker setting to LARGE except for the Center Channel speaker (SMALL).

What do you recommend for the Crossover Frequency selection?

A few questions:
  1. Are you using the analog outputs to your receiver? If not, these settings won't matter.
  2. If you are using them, what frequency range do your speakers support? for larger speakers, they may reach fairly low (45 Hz - 20000, for example) for smaller speakers, the range may be higher (150Hz to 20000, another example).
  3. If you are setting the speakers to large, they will be considered full range speakers and won't have the crossover applied (I believe). So the crossover is immaterial.

If you are using HDMI, then the conversation is moot. Your settings on the 103 won't apply.

If you're using the analog connectors and you want to apply a crossover to your sub(s), then you want to set all speakers to SMALL and use the crossover that applies. This doesn't insult your speakers, it's just a convenient way to use a name to describe that you're using a crossover to a sub.

I have a BDP-83. I've used it on an analog basis before (HDMI now), in my case, even though some of my speakers are large and can dip down to the low 40's, I prefer to cross over to a sub that is built to handle the low frequencies. So I cross over to 80Hz, all speakers to small.
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post #8929 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

What is the best Crossover Frequency selections? Right now, I have it set to 80Hz.

I put all of the 4 speaker setting to LARGE except for the Center Channel speaker (SMALL).

What do you recommend for the Crossover Frequency selection?

The THX setting is 80Hz, speakers to small. Some people like a higher crossover point and speakers to Large. It all depends what sounds good to YOU.

Life without bass is not worth living.
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post #8930 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

A few questions:
  1. Are you using the analog outputs to your receiver? If not, these settings won't matter.
  2. If you are using them, what frequency range do your speakers support? for larger speakers, they may reach fairly low (45 Hz - 20000, for example) for smaller speakers, the range may be higher (150Hz to 20000, another example).
  3. If you are setting the speakers to large, they will be considered full range speakers and won't have the crossover applied (I believe). So the crossover is immaterial.

If you are using HDMI, then the conversation is moot. Your settings on the 103 won't apply.

If you're using the analog connectors and you want to apply a crossover to your sub(s), then you want to set all speakers to SMALL and use the crossover that applies. This doesn't insult your speakers, it's just a convenient way to use a name to describe that you're using a crossover to a sub.

I have a BDP-83. I've used it on an analog basis before (HDMI now), in my case, even though some of my speakers are large and can dip down to the low 40's, I prefer to cross over to a sub that is built to handle the low frequencies. So I cross over to 80Hz, all speakers to small.


Thanks for the advice!!
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post #8931 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post

The THX setting is 80Hz, speakers to small. Some people like a higher crossover point and speakers to Large. It all depends what sounds good to YOU.



Thanks for the advice!!
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post #8932 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 02:43 PM
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I think people get the small and large speaker thing confused with the size of the speaker, like what was said if set to large the speaker will get the full range never mind the fact most speakers can't produce those low notes with authority and make the AVR/amp work overtime trying to produce sounds that most well made subs do effortlessly, freeing up your mains and AVR/amp so it will have tighter cleaner bass.
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post #8933 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I think people get the small and large speaker thing confused with the size of the speaker, like what was said if set to large the speaker will get the full range never mind the fact most speakers can't produce those low notes with authority and make the AVR/amp work overtime trying to produce sounds that most well made subs do effortlessly, freeing up your mains and AVR/amp so it will have tighter cleaner bass.

For what it's worth - - I have everything set to 80HZ - - with my Left Front and Right Front set to "Large," and everything else set to "Small" - - 7.1 configuration with a Velodyne bass. All through a Pioneer SC65 receiver.

Even though my mid channel (Paradigm CC690 - beast) can handle low frequencies - - I didn't like the effect and prefer to have a clear, center channel for dialogue. Paradigm Studio 60's, V2 for my front speakers. ADP590's for the sides with Orb Mod2's for the rear surrounds (space challenged!)

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post #8934 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

What is the best Crossover Frequency selections? Right now, I have it set to 80Hz.i put all of the 4 speaker setting to LARGE except for the Center Channel speaker (SMALL). What do you recommend for the Crossover Frequency selection?

What kind of speakers do you have? It depends
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post #8935 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 04:54 PM
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Determining the best choice for Crossover is complicated. 80Hz is a perfectly reasonable starting choice until you can spend the time to experiment and see if a different choice works better.

As stated above, the Crossover setting in the OPPO is only relevant if you are using its multi-channel Analog outputs. In addition, although the OPPO will support Crossover processing in a configuration where there is no Subwoofer and the LF/RF speakers are set to LARGE, the use of a Crossover (i.e., setting any speakers to SMALL) is *MOSTLY* for folks who have a Subwoofer hooked up to the OPPO so there's a good place for that steered bass to go.

Another consideration is that you don't want bass management to be happening in more than one place at a time. If you are using the Crossover in the OPPO (analog outputs with some speakers set to SMALL), then you do NOT want to ALSO have Crossover processing going on inside your Subwoofer or in an AVR that's in that Analog audio signal path. For the Sub, either disable its built-in Crossover or crank it up to the highest possible frequency to get it out of the way as much as possible. In an AVR, most mid to low-end AVRs won't offer Crossover processing for their multi-channel Analog input. But if you have a higher-end AVR that DOES do that (which, by the way, almost certainly means the AVR is re-digitizing that Analog audio input as the first step, since processing like this is done digitally these days), you will need to decide whether you want the OPPO or the AVR to do the job and disable it in the one you want to stay out of the way.

To disable Crossover processing in the OPPO is simple: Just set ALL speakers to LARGE.



Having decided you want the OPPO to do your Crossover processing, and having gotten to the point of wanting to check if the "one size fits all" choice of 80Hz is really best, now you are into the brave new world of manually configured bass management. There are no pat answers to what MUST work best, but there are some Rules of Thumb:

Please Note: These comments refer to bass steered from the SMALL speaker channels to the Sub. Any LFE channel content (the ".1" in 5.1 or 7.1) always goes to your Sub, and is mixed together with such steered bass to make up the output signal to the Sub.

1) The Crossover is not a sudden switch of bass from the speaker to the sub. Instead, it rolls into effect over about an octave (a factor of 2 in frequency). So if you set an 80Hz crossover, that means the speaker will still be asked to produce bass in decreasing amounts all the way down to about 40Hz. Meanwhile the Sub is picking up the job of reproducing that bass in INCREASING amounts as the frequency descends from 80 to 40. That octave -- the Crossover transition region -- is the set of frequencies where BOTH the speaker AND the sub contribute -- each playing the same bass at the same time in amounts that vary according the frequency. So the first rule of thumb is that if your speakers are good down to 40Hz, you do *NOT* want to set a 40Hz Crossover. Your Crossover should be nearer to 80Hz or above so that the speakers can still contribute quality output throughout the Crossover transition octave.

2) BECAUSE the Sub and the SMALL speaker are playing the SAME bass at the SAME time through the Crossover transition, it is important that the Subwoofer and the speaker be "In Phase" -- meaning that the sound waves they are producing complement each other instead of canceling out each other. Your Sub probably has a Phase adjustment and may also have a Polarity adjustment, and the two adjustments combine to get the Sub properly matched with your speakers. Phase is a function of "distance" so you have to have the proper speaker distances assigned before you try to adjust Phase. Calibration discs can be used to test correct Phase -- to minimize cancellation and maximize bass output.

3) The need for good speaker output through the Crossover transition octave suggests you should use a high Crossover frequency. But going TOO High is just as bad. Subwoofers work by "pressurizing" the entire volume of air in the listening room. That's why bass produced by the Sub seems to "come from everywhere" -- the Sub is not "localizable" -- you can't tell the bass is coming from the location of the Sub. Thus it really doesn't matter where you place the Sub in the room. But that only works for the lowest frequencies. In particular, if you set the Crossover too high you will start steering the bass from male voices to the Sub and you WILL localize that Sub output. Which is a problem if the Sub is not right next to your Center speaker! So you want to keep the Crossover low enough to avoid that. Keeping the Crossover below 100Hz is a good Rule of Thumb. But of course that means your Center speaker is going to be involved in producing bass down to around 50Hz. If your Center speaker is not capable of doing that well, you may need to compromise with a somewhat higher Crossover choice.

4) Some folks have "full range" speakers, and are tempted to set them to LARGE (no Crossover bass steering from them). But the practical reality is that it is RARE for any "full range" speaker to be able to reproduced the lowest bass frequencies well AT VOLUME. Indeed if your "full range" speakers don't have powered woofers (essentially built in Subs), they probably fall into this category. "Full range" speakers might be rated down to, say 20Hz, and if you have a competent Sub to pair with them, that would suggest you should really run them as SMALL with a Crossover of, perhaps 40Hz. In fact, that "at volume" comment above, would suggest you should err high for Crossover -- maybe 50 or 60Hz even for such "full range" speakers. Ideally your Sub itself will be qualified to go BELOW 20Hz. There's a lot of bass in the range from 30 to 15Hz which is more felt than heard, and getting that reproduced well almost always means including a good Sub in your setup.

5) In an ideal listening room, the best choice of Crossover would simply be the one that gives the smoothest transition between Speaker and Sub through the Crossover transition octave. However, real world listening rooms often have substantial "bass response" issues -- where some bass frequencies are amplified and others are attenuated. It is not uncommon to see rooms where the peak to trough of bass response at different frequencies is 12dB or more! What's going on is that the wavelength of audio bass frequencies is on the order of typical room dimensions. And so you get "standing waves" built up from the direct output of the speaker/sub and also from output reflected off the walls, floor and ceilings, and these standing waves can interact with each other producing "resonance peaks" and "cancellation nulls". Shifting the position of the speakers/Sub will change the way their output "couples" with the room's dimensions and can have major impact on whether the peaks and nulls are a problem or not. "Bass treatments" (stuff you install that absorbs bass) can reduce bass reflections and also alter this stuff. But sometimes the choice of Crossover also comes into it, moving more of the bass into the speaker or into the Sub and thus avoiding poor coupling from one or the other at "difficult" frequencies. There is a whole Forum here devoted to Sub placement and calibration if you want to get into these details and how people deal with them. "Room Correction" systems in some AVRs provide an automated approach for detecting and dealing with such issues.



The AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray includes a setup validation test for Crossover between the front speakers and the Sub. It sends a test tone to the Left Front speaker that varies back and forth in frequency from well below to well above the Crossover region. At the highest frequencies that tone will come out of Left Front alone. At the lowest frequencies, it will come out of the Subwoofer alone, due the action of the Crossover. In between it will be a blend of speaker and Sub.

IF EVERYTHING IS RIGHT -- if speaker/Sub volume trims are set correctly, phase is set correctly, and speaker positioning and Crossover choice combine to eliminate room response issues -- then the volume of that test tone will stay CONSTANT from end to end of the frequency sweep (except for the very lowest frequencies, which are hard to hear). This is a TOUGH test to get perfect, but even if it is not perfect, it will give you a feel for how close you are getting.
--Bob

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post #8936 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post Determining the best choice for Crossover is complicated. 80Hz is a perfectly reasonable starting choice until you can spend the time to experiment and see if a different choice works better...........
To disable Crossover processing in the OPPO is simple: Just set ALL speakers to LARGE.


Having decided you want the OPPO to do your Crossover processing, and having gotten to the point of wanting to check if the "one size fits all" choice of 80Hz is really best, now you are into the brave new world of manually configured bass management. There are no pat answers to what MUST work best, but there are some Rules of Thumb:

Please Note: These comments refer to bass steered from the SMALL speaker channels to the Sub. Any LFE channel content (the ".1" in 5.1 or 7.1) always goes to your Sub, and is mixed together with such steered bass to make up the output signal to the Sub.

1) The Crossover is not a sudden switch of bass from the speaker to the sub. Instead, it rolls into effect over about an octave (a factor of 2 in frequency). So if you set an 80Hz crossover, that means the speaker will still be asked to produce bass in decreasing amounts all the way down to about 40Hz. Meanwhile the Sub is picking up the job of reproducing that bass in INCREASING amounts as the frequency descends from 80 to 40. That octave -- the Crossover transition region -- is the set of frequencies where BOTH the speaker AND the sub contribute -- each playing the same bass at the same time in amounts that vary according the frequency. So the first rule of thumb is that if your speakers are good down to 40Hz, you do *NOT* want to set a 40Hz Crossover. Your Crossover should be nearer to 80Hz or above so that the speakers can still contribute quality output throughout the Crossover transition octave.


QUESTION: So If I read this correctly, I should set the B&W 800Diamond to 80HZ? Also, you are saying that the transition is not sudden but rather progressive! First time I have heard that, interesting! Any references to that effect please?

 

 


 

The AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray includes a setup validation test for Crossover between the front speakers and the Sub. It sends a test tone to the Left Front speaker that varies back and forth in frequency from well below to well above the Crossover region. At the highest frequencies that tone will come out of Left Front alone. At the lowest frequencies, it will come out of the Subwoofer alone, due the action of the Crossover. In between it will be a blend of speaker and Sub.

 

QUESTION: I have that disk where is it in the menu?

 

 


 

IF EVERYTHING IS RIGHT -- if speaker/Sub volume trims are set correctly, phase is set correctly, and speaker positioning and Crossover choice combine to eliminate room response issues -- then the volume of that test tone will stay CONSTANT from end to end of the frequency sweep (except for the very lowest frequencies, which are hard to hear). This is a TOUGH test to get perfect, but even if it is not perfect, it will give you a feel for how close you are getting.

 

Easier said than done!


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post #8937 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 06:22 PM
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Bob,

What is the slope of the crossover in the OPPO? I have a 105, if that makes a difference.

Scott

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post #8938 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 06:28 PM
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^ OPPO has not published that spec for either the 103 or 105.

A typical Crossover slope for home theater equipment is 12dB per octave, so you could use that as a guess.
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post #8939 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 07:36 PM
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I should add an important proviso for folks expecting the OPPO to do Crossover processing on its multi-channel Analog outputs. To wit: When the digital signals are passed DIRECTLY to the DACs for conversion to Analog, there can be no audio processing. No down-mixing, no distance adjustment, and in particular, no Crossover processing producing bass steering from speakers to sub.

There's one situation where this applies in the 103, and two in the 105. The situation common to the two of them is when you are playing an SACD disc or DSD media files with DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion in effect (SACD Output set to DSD). In addition, for the 105 only, this is also true when playing the stereo LPCM audio coming in on the Asynchronous USB DAC Input. For both of those cases, speakers will be treated AS IF they were set to LARGE, and equidistant. In the case of multi-channel DSD, that also means that audio channels for any speakers not actually wired will be discarded -- not down-mixed.

For the DSD case, if you want Crossover processing and the rest, simply set SACD Output to PCM.

For playback from the Asynchronous USB DAC Input, you should plan on either using "full range" front speakers, or you should arrange to do Crossover processing external to the player.
--Bob

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post #8940 of 19516 Old 05-17-2013, 08:39 PM
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In the 103, if I'm just using it as a transport, HDMI out for any and all audio, all the crossover stuff is bypassed, right?

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