Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 17621 Old 10-20-2012, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Sudhakar2k View Post

So I am curious, we own a BDP-83 + Pioneer Kuro TV. What improvements are there in BDP-103 compared to the BD-83 in terms of blu-ray and DVD playback, and image quality.

If you are mainly interested in BR and DVD playback, I think there is little incentive to upgrade. The new machine is somewhat faster than the old ones, but if you are not irritated by current load times, it's not an issue. Image quality will be very similar.
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If there is place within the tread describing the differences, then you can simply refer to them. I just wasn't going to read through all 30+ pages of comments.

The BDP-83 was OPPO's 1st generation BR player and the -103 is the 3rd, so there are two jumps in features. If you could combine these two sections of the FAQs you'd have a summary of the differences:

-Bill
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post #1082 of 17621 Old 10-20-2012, 09:38 PM
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I wanted to watch "Son de Mar" DVD, (it's a spanish movie) but when it got to the Menu I only got a black screen. The OPPO display showed ROOT MENU but nothing on the screen.

I managed to watch the movie using the Chapter- key on my Harmony remote. I have HDMI1 to my Kuro plasma and HDMI2 to my receiver, resolution and 1080p/24 set to Auto. DVD 24p conversion set to Off

The menu shows OK on my computer and Power DVD 10

Any ideas?
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post #1083 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Dalton View Post

I have the 103 and 65st50. No problems playing the Avengers in 3d. I have a single hdmi cable running from the 103 to a Marantz sr5005 receiver. Everything works as it should. I have played RIO 3d also with no issues. I will try Avatar soon since I received it yesterday.

Can you please try running cable directly from oppo to the TV?
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post #1084 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ibre34 View Post

I wanted to watch "Son de Mar" DVD, (it's a spanish movie) but when it got to the Menu I only got a black screen. The OPPO display showed ROOT MENU but nothing on the screen.

I managed to watch the movie using the Chapter- key on my Harmony remote. I have HDMI1 to my Kuro plasma and HDMI2 to my receiver, resolution and 1080p/24 set to Auto. DVD 24p conversion set to Off

The menu shows OK on my computer and Power DVD 10

Any ideas?

Are you in the US? If this is an import DVD it is probably PAL. Do you have TV System set to NTSC in the player settings?

-Bill
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post #1085 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 06:06 AM
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Hi,

Seriously tempted by a 103 but have a couple of questions.

I have my Blu-ray disk's copyes on shared (SMB) drives on both a NAS and also on my Win 7 PC, I know that a Dune media player plays the media fine. Would the Oppo also play said BDMV folder structure with all disc's menu or not ? All my Blu-Ray's backed up to BDMV folder structure.
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post #1086 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by DIMA Netu View Post

Hi,

Seriously tempted by a 103 but have a couple of questions.

I have my Blu-ray disk's copyes on shared (SMB) drives on both a NAS and also on my Win 7 PC, I know that a Dune media player plays the media fine. Would the Oppo also play said BDMV folder structure with all disc's menu or not ? All my Blu-Ray's backed up to BDMV folder structure.

Currently: yes.

In the future: it is hard for me to believe that the studios will allow this to go on, but they are hampered by the need to retain AVCHD as a feature. AVCHD uses a directory structure parallel to BDMV.

-Bill
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post #1087 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 07:40 AM
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I guess I must really be in the minority of people looking to use the 103 as a pseudo replacement player in an HTPC environment. Sadly, my experiences in trying to utilize the "Push" functionality of the player has been lackluster (although no fault of the player).

As much as I would truly LOVE to use the player, unless there is some type of practical way to use "push" feature, it would be nearly impossible for people like myself with VERY large movie collections stored on HD. So far, I have tried MANY different software soloutions with virtually no success. I will continue in my quest but so far.....not looking good.
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post #1088 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Currently: yes.
In the future: it is hard for me to believe that the studios will allow this to go on, but they are hampered by the need to retain AVCHD as a feature. AVCHD uses a directory structure parallel to BDMV.
-Bill

Thx Bill!


It's unbelievable!!! Why there is no information about this in the FAQ?
This is only possible on the new models 103-105?

And what about this
Quote:
SMB network file access allows a trick with Blu-ray ISO files: if they are mounted to a local directory on the server, the OPPO can see the BDMV folder and play it just as it does with actual BDMV folders on local storage or on the server.
you can also play with the disc's top and pop-up menu?
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post #1089 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIMA Netu View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Currently: yes.
In the future: it is hard for me to believe that the studios will allow this to go on, but they are hampered by the need to retain AVCHD as a feature. AVCHD uses a directory structure parallel to BDMV.
-Bill

Thx Bill!


It's unbelievable!!! Why there is no information about this in the FAQ?
This is only possible on the new models 103-105?

And what about this
Quote:
SMB network file access allows a trick with Blu-ray ISO files: if they are mounted to a local directory on the server, the OPPO can see the BDMV folder and play it just as it does with actual BDMV folders on local storage or on the server.
you can also play with the disc's top and pop-up menu?

Doesn't the FAQ show BDMV support?

The BDP-93 also plays BDMV but only on locally attached storage.

With the ISO loopback trick on SMB it is just like playing the BDMV folder.

All this is subject to change.

-Bill
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post #1090 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 08:22 AM
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What about upscaling? My Samsung 61" HL61A750 supposedly upscales and I have read in these forums that an upscaling dvd player is not going to add any additional advantage if the tv is already doing the job. But, the current Harman Kardon is connected through component connections. Will HDMI connections coming off the OPPO 103 make a difference? No I have not watched Blue-ray but I do watch hi-def Directv including NFL Sunday ticket.

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post #1091 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by johnnywyoming View Post

What about upscaling? My Samsung 61" HL61A750 supposedly upscales and I have read in these forums that an upscaling dvd player is not going to add any additional advantage if the tv is already doing the job. But, the current Harman Kardon is connected through component connections. Will HDMI connections coming off the OPPO 103 make a difference?
Yes, simply using HDMI will make a noticeable difference. Meanwhile, HDTV's have widely different capabilities regarding proper de-interlacing (the key first step) and scaling so depending upon your Samsung the difference will be dramatic or perhaps less so. Either way, you will see an improvement with DVD's being presented via HDMI by the Oppo.
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post #1092 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnywyoming View Post

What about upscaling? My Samsung 61" HL61A750 supposedly upscales and I have read in these forums that an upscaling dvd player is not going to add any additional advantage if the tv is already doing the job. But, the current Harman Kardon is connected through component connections. Will HDMI connections coming off the OPPO 103 make a difference? No I have not watched Blue-ray but I do watch hi-def Directv including NFL Sunday ticket.

You will almost certainly see image improvement just switching from Component to HDMI cabling. That's likely true for your DirecTV box as well.

In the case of the OPPO, set it to 1080p and let it do the upscaling for everything.

In the case of the DirecTV, you will likely get better results setting it to "Native" output -- i.e., track the resolution of whatever channel you are watching -- and let your display do the upscaling.

The one down-side to using HDMI -- something everyone has to get used to when using it from any device -- is the "handshake" process. Whenever the HDMI connection has to be re-established to account for, e.g., a change in resolution, there is a period of video loss while that happens. And a handshake takes at least two seconds.

Nevertheless, the image improvement using the digital video on HDMI is worth it.
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post #1093 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnywyoming View Post

What about upscaling? My Samsung 61" HL61A750 supposedly upscales and I have read in these forums that an upscaling dvd player is not going to add any additional advantage if the tv is already doing the job. But, the current Harman Kardon is connected through component connections. Will HDMI connections coming off the OPPO 103 make a difference? No I have not watched Blue-ray but I do watch hi-def Directv including NFL Sunday ticket.

Not every device deinterlaces and scales DVD equally well. It is surprisingly difficult to do properly. Oddly enough, it's conceptually more difficult than playing Blu-ray, which is pretty much ready to display as is.

A few years ago you could find online databases comparing the DVD performance of players, but those have all lapsed now. Interest has moved on to Blu-ray and the old issues don't apply as much.

OPPO has always been rigorous in trying to get the most out of DVD and scored high in the test reports, when there were such things.

Component vs HDMI: there is no fixed rule. Component has been killed off by the industry and you probably won't find current comparisons.

Do you use any sort of calibration disc now? That can make a bigger difference than switching hardware.

Of course, for the same title, Blu-ray can be a dramatic upgrade over DVD.

-Bill
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post #1094 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 09:29 AM
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Since there was a lot of information about Cinavia in this thread, and I am not sure whether I understood everything correctly, I would like to straighten things out for the Cinavia syndrome, am I right with

a) There is no backup software tool available that can eliminate Cinavia for Oppo 105/103
b) Oppo 95/93 will never have a problem with Cinavia protected movies
c) If one plays a backup from hard disk over USB, the 105/103 will have problems with Cinavia protected BRs
d) If one plays a backup over a DLNA server (Synology?), Cinavia protection does not create problems
e) Solution d) will probably not work forever, since the studios will probably close this loophole
f) it is not forseeable that a backup software will be available in the future, which can remove the Cinavia protection
g) 103/105 will therefore never be a universal solution for playing BRs from a backup harddisc

best regards
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post #1095 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by thorix View Post

Since there was a lot of information about Cinavia in this thread, and I am not sure whether I understood everything correctly, I would like to straighten things out for the Cinavia syndrome, am I right with

a) There is no backup software tool available that can eliminate Cinavia for Oppo 105/103

Or for any other device. Cinavia watermarking is not removable.
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b) Oppo 95/93 will never have a problem with Cinavia protected movies

No player will have a problem with the original disc. The 93/95 do not detect Cinavia watermarking on copies and so ignore it.
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c) If one plays a backup from hard disk over USB, the 105/103 will have problems with Cinavia protected BRs

For BDMV folders, yes. Apparently not for M2TS or MKV copies yet.
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d) If one plays a backup over a DLNA server (Synology?), Cinavia protection does not create problems

That would have to be a container like M2TS or MKV, which still seem to work.
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e) Solution d) will probably not work forever, since the studios will probably close this loophole

That's my prediction.
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f) it is not forseeable that a backup software will be available in the future, which can remove the Cinavia protection

I tend to agree. This is much more difficult than cracking some encryption scheme.
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g) 103/105 will therefore never be a universal solution for playing BRs from a backup harddisc

I think that's likely true for all devices that require licensing. HTPCs and certain media players may operate under different rules.

Remember that Cinavia is not universally employed yet. Sony is the biggest booster.

-Bill
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post #1096 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 09:53 AM
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Thanks Bill for the informative feedback, which brings me directly to a new idea (which probably others have already thought about),

is it possible to play the Cinavia protect BR copies with a media player (Dune?) feed the output via HDMI into the 105, use the 105 as a pre-amplifier and feed a) the analog audio into the power amp and b) the video signal directly from the Oppo 103 via HDMI into the TV/projector,

are there any problems to be expected?

Thorix
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post #1097 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorix View Post

Thanks Bill for the informative feedback, which brings me directly to a new idea (which probably others have already thought about),

is it possible to play the Cinavia protect BR copies with a media player (Dune?) feed the output via HDMI into the 105, use the 105 as a pre-amplifier and feed a) the analog audio into the power amp and b) the video signal directly from the Oppo 103 via HDMI into the TV/projector,

are there any problems to be expected?

Thorix

I'm trying to recall if anyone has tested Cinavia detection over the digital inputs on the 103. Like the media file exception, it is the sort of thing that might work at present but not in the future.

No one can promise you that the OPPO will play Cinavia-marked copies at all in the future.

-Bill
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post #1098 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

I think that's likely true for all devices that require licensing. HTPCs and certain media players may operate under different rules.
A representative from Arcsoft has indicated in a thread in the HTPC forum that future versions of their software, Total Media Theater (TMT), will be required to recognize Cinavia, so HTPC's are not going to be immune from this forever. It should be safe to assume that the other commercial players, such as PowerDVD, will also be required to comply at some point.
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post #1099 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 10:34 AM
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this means only 3 options available,

a) keep an old Cinavia free player as long as possible,
b) do it like the did it in the last century and play the shiny discs only and forget about the pleasures of backing up your discs on a NAS
c) don't buy products from the Cinavia fraction, i.e. Sony,

Thorix
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post #1100 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

I'm trying to recall if anyone has tested Cinavia detection over the digital inputs on the 103. Like the media file exception, it is the sort of thing that might work at present but not in the future.
No one can promise you that the OPPO will play Cinavia-marked copies at all in the future.
-Bill

If the Oppo is fed by a device which is NOT Cinavia compliant, like most media players , I doubt it will do anything because the signal is already "clean". In order to this test , the feeding device must be Cinavia enabled and the media (copy) also must have the Cinavia encryption. I am 99% sure the signal in this case will be already distorted and the Oppo will not do anything OR the playback will simply stop on the feeding device.

Bottom line: Cinavia media (copy) played on Cinavia enabled device will not play with or without feeding the Oppo. Cinavia media (copy) played by non-Cinavia devices will play fine with or without the Oppo.

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post #1101 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by slimoli View Post


If the Oppo is fed by a device which is NOT Cinavia compliant, like most media players , I doubt it will do anything because the signal is already "clean". In order to this test , the feeding device must be Cinavia enabled and the media (copy) also must have the Cinavia encryption. I am 99% sure the signal in this case will be already distorted and the Oppo will not do anything OR the playback will simply stop on the feeding device.

Bottom line: Cinavia media (copy) played on Cinavia enabled device will not play with or without feeding the Oppo. Cinavia media (copy) played by non-Cinavia devices will play fine with or without the Oppo.

I really don't know (and am getting close to not caring) but if I were with the licensing people I would take a different view. The watermark is always there, it is never cleaned out or removed or disabled or certified. All inputs should be checked and if detected, the player should drop the bomb.

-Bill
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post #1102 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 11:01 AM
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What advantage, if any, do users gain by playing an audio CD through the Coax output of the player rather than through its HDMI or 7.1 analog outputs? Basically, why is it needed since copyright issues are invoked on that stream that limit its usefulness?

How does the RCA-enabled video diagnostic output (located above the coax output) work and what is it supposed to do? Where does it terminate on an A/V receiver. I wasn't able to find any specific information in the manual other than it's there.

On the 95, these mirrored rear outputs play pure stereo. Will pure stereo return on the 105?

Thanks.

- Andy
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post #1103 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

I really don't know (and am getting close to not caring) but if I were with the licensing people I would take a different view. The watermark is always there, it is never cleaned out or removed or disabled or certified. All inputs should be checked and if detected, the player should drop the bomb.
-Bill

I also don't care but although the watermark is still there, the original decoding is already done by the feeding device. Not sure if the Oppo can do anything or even if it can "see" the mark when the signal is coming. I think the Cinavia is a very bad way to avoid piracy and even the studios seem to agree , given only Sony is using it.

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post #1104 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorix View Post

this means only 3 options available,
a) keep an old Cinavia free player as long as possible,
b) do it like the did it in the last century and play the shiny discs only and forget about the pleasures of backing up your discs on a NAS
c) don't buy products from the Cinavia fraction, i.e. Sony,
Thorix

Option b works fine for me. But I'm a throw back to the stone age wink.gif.

Bill

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post #1105 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

If the Oppo is fed by a device which is NOT Cinavia compliant, like most media players , I doubt it will do anything because the signal is already "clean". In order to this test , the feeding device must be Cinavia enabled and the media (copy) also must have the Cinavia encryption. I am 99% sure the signal in this case will be already distorted and the Oppo will not do anything OR the playback will simply stop on the feeding device.

Bottom line: Cinavia media (copy) played on Cinavia enabled device will not play with or without feeding the Oppo. Cinavia media (copy) played by non-Cinavia devices will play fine with or without the Oppo.

This is almost certainly not correct. If it were true it would be trivially easy to make copies of the audio tracks with the Cinavia watermark deleted. It may in fact turn out to be possible to delete the watermark via some future process, but that process is unlikely to be trivially easy.

What's NOT known is whether the DETECTION of the Cinavia watermark in an audio track happens in every possible way for audio to get into the player. Nor, if loopholes are found, whether player makers like OPPO will be forced to close them for players required by licensing to include Cinavia watermark detection.

Again, at this point only a tiny fraction of the movies out there even incorporate the Cinavia watermark, and a suitably loud backlash may scare off other studios from going down this path.
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post #1106 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrin View Post

I guess I must really be in the minority of people looking to use the 103 as a pseudo replacement player in an HTPC environment. Sadly, my experiences in trying to utilize the "Push" functionality of the player has been lackluster (although no fault of the player).
As much as I would truly LOVE to use the player, unless there is some type of practical way to use "push" feature, it would be nearly impossible for people like myself with VERY large movie collections stored on HD. So far, I have tried MANY different software soloutions with virtually no success. I will continue in my quest but so far.....not looking good.

No, that's one reason I'm exploring it as well, but as much as I like certain aspects of 103, it will likely go back because I would have like to see more effort on media streaming support.

Oppo's only future is moving strong into that area, given the 1/2 life of physical discs. In fact, I've yet to put a physical disc in it.

I will wait for the new 3D Dune players I think...
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post #1107 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajglass View Post

What advantage, if any, do users gain by playing an audio CD through the Coax output of the player rather than through its HDMI or 7.1 analog outputs? Basically, why is it needed since copyright issues are invoked on that stream that limit its usefulness?

How does the RCA-enabled video diagnostic output (located above the coax output) work and what is it supposed to do? Where does it terminate on an A/V receiver. I wasn't able to find any specific information in the manual other than it's there.

On the 95, these mirrored rear outputs play pure stereo. Will pure stereo return on the 105?

Thanks.

Actually, copy protection is not live when playing a CD via HDMI. For CD playback, the LPCM 2.0 44.1KHz 16-bit audio on HDMI or Optical or Coax are all identical.

The Diagnostic output on the 103 (and 105) is a Composite video output intended for emergency use if you can't get HDMI video working and need a way to get into the player's menus to Reset things. It is muted to black whenever you are playing content. I.e., it is ONLY useful for viewing the player's menus.

Beta Testers can't discuss details of the 105 until OPPO releases the specs on it (soon...soon...), but the back panel photographs that have already been released do show that the 105, like the 95, has Dedicated Stereo Analog audio outputs (both RCA and XLR) as well as Multi-channel Analog audio outputs (RCA).
--Bob
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post #1108 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 12:37 PM
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OPPO UK has released the first version of the Italian language User's Manual for the European model, BDP-103EU player.

http://www.oppo-bluray.co.uk/customer-services/downloads/

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post #1109 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Are you in the US? If this is an import DVD it is probably PAL. Do you have TV System set to NTSC in the player settings?
-Bill

DVD is NTSC. OPPO and TV are set to NTSC. The movie looks ok, the only problem is the DVD Menu
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post #1110 of 17621 Old 10-21-2012, 01:00 PM
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If it's a DVD from Europe, it is possible the menus are encoded for PAL while the movie content is in NTSC. This has been known to happen.

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