Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 370 - AVS Forum
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post #11071 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Using a single HDMI cable means that I'm getting DSD converted to PCM before it gets sent to the AVR, but I can't use room correction with a DSD signal, and the benefits of room correction trump any advantage of DSD (at least, to my ears).
I have the 103 and the Denon AVR-X4000. Running a single HDMI from the player (HDMI2) to the X4000, for testing purposes, I confirmed that Audyssey was indeed being applied to the DSD signal. It was also, as expected, being applied to the PCM signal from the player, when I chose to have the player output PCM over HDMI.

So your 4310 doesn't apply Audyssey to DSD. That's too bad. I agree, having Audyssey applied to PCM is much better than DSD with no Audyssey. Not even a consideration. To my ears, with my equipment, in my room, I was able to hear no difference between DSD and PCM.
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post #11072 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

There is a lot of history on this topic in the forums and elsewhere on the internet.

It is an issue with the way the disc is authored. Some combination of players and AVRs exhibit the problem when set to bitstream, some don't. Some of Sony's own players have the problem.

Sony says: the solution is to set the player to LPCM if you have the problem. This indeed works. They originally said they would issue a new version of the title correcting the problem but it looks like that is not going to happen? Maybe with the "mastered in 4k" marketing push? I haven't kept up.

-Bill

I'm still experimenting with it, but I have noticed that passing the Dolby TrueHD bitstream on to my new Pioneer Elite SC-77 receiver has resulted some audio issues that don't occur with a DTS-MA bitstream, or if I set the HDMI audio to LPCM output. So far I've experienced small audio glitches, and the inability to re-lock onto the bitstream after scanning. Additionally I'm experiencing a difference in volume when switching between bitstream and LPCM output (LPCM output volume being lower), which I really wasn't expecting. I thought the final result was supposed to be the same regardless of where the bitstream was converted to LPCM.
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post #11073 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 04:21 PM
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I am curious what you guys would advise for my setup. My display is a Panasonic AE8000u projector and my AVR is the Rotel 1098 with hdmi upgrade. Would you recommend I use the dual hdmi feature or use the multichannel setup for surround sound on the 103? It is supposed to arrive Tuesday and I am not sure which way to go after reading this thread. I listen to very few cd's any more after setting up my Mac with an external DAC so that is not a concern. I just want the best setup for watching blu rays and streaming movies via Vudu. Thanks so much for your help smile.gif



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post #11074 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 04:33 PM
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I have played Total Recall on my 103 bit streamed to a Denon 4311ci with no audio drop outs. This work after the last firmware update released in April.


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post #11075 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

There is a lot of history on this topic in the forums and elsewhere on the internet.

It is an issue with the way the disc is authored. Some combination of players and AVRs exhibit the problem when set to bitstream, some don't. Some of Sony's own players have the problem.

Sony says: the solution is to set the player to LPCM if you have the problem. This indeed works. They originally said they would issue a new version of the title correcting the problem but it looks like that is not going to happen? Maybe with the "mastered in 4k" marketing push? I haven't kept up.

-Bill

I'm still experimenting with it, but I have noticed that passing the Dolby TrueHD bitstream on to my new Pioneer Elite SC-77 receiver has resulted some audio issues that don't occur with a DTS-MA bitstream, or if I set the HDMI audio to LPCM output. So far I've experienced small audio glitches, and the inability to re-lock onto the bitstream after scanning. Additionally I'm experiencing a difference in volume when switching between bitstream and LPCM output (LPCM output volume being lower), which I really wasn't expecting. I thought the final result was supposed to be the same regardless of where the bitstream was converted to LPCM.

Confirm that you have Dynamic Range Control OFF in the OPPO. It only applies when the OPPO is doing the decoding (e.g., LPCM output). Also, when comparing LPCM vs Bitstream output you must leave Secondary Audio off as it alters Bitstream output.

Finally, check your AVR to make sure it has Dialog Normalization enabled.

Indeed, LPCM and Bitstream should sound the same, so if you are hearing a difference then there's likely a settings error you haven't spotted yet.
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post #11076 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

There is a lot of history on this topic in the forums and elsewhere on the internet.

It is an issue with the way the disc is authored. Some combination of players and AVRs exhibit the problem when set to bitstream, some don't. Some of Sony's own players have the problem.

Sony says: the solution is to set the player to LPCM if you have the problem. This indeed works. They originally said they would issue a new version of the title correcting the problem but it looks like that is not going to happen? Maybe with the "mastered in 4k" marketing push? I haven't kept up.

-Bill
Thanks for the info Bill, I'm going to give it a play I'm very curious if my current setup will have that issue or not . So far I haven't had any with other Blu's but that's not to say I won't with Total Recall since that seems to be the problem child .
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post #11077 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The Pure Audio button should turn off video entirely.

-Bill

Which reminds me, I can't figure out how to program my harmony 880 to push the Pure Audio button.
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post #11078 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 06:46 PM
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My first problem bluray disc with the 103.

Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries Series 1 begins to load then stops. Tried it on a Toshiba bluray player and it works fine.

Does anyone else have this problem with this disk?
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post #11079 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gonzlobo View Post

Which reminds me, I can't figure out how to program my harmony 880 to push the Pure Audio button.

My recollection is that it is one of the pre-defined commands Harmony already has in its database entry for the OPPO, but if not you can "Learn" it, just like you'd learn any other button. Is that not working for you?

In either case, you then assign that command to one of the remote's buttons for each Activity that uses the OPPO.

There is a forum here dedicated to programmable remotes where the Harmony experts hang out if you need help.
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post #11080 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 07:37 PM
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For a very simple setup (Oppo and Fios box feeding an A/V receiver and TV), am I better off running the FioS STB into the Oppo input, the HDMI to the TV and using 7.2 analog into the receiver? I have it set up as the receiver doing the switching and processing but it seems like perhaps I'm missing out on something. This is for my parents so ease of use will be key....i.e. minimizing switching of inputs. I was thinking it might make it simpler if the menu on the Oppo was their main OSD as its pretty intuitive compared to most A/V receivers. I can load the iPad app for the receiver and do config on it vs. needing to see the receiver's OSD and since the Oppo will be doing the setup, it will be minimal anyways.

Thoughts? I'm returning this Sony ES receiver...overpriced, slow and not very compelling (and doesn't really control the other components well which was the raison d'etre).
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post #11081 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzlobo View Post

Which reminds me, I can't figure out how to program my harmony 880 to push the Pure Audio button.

connect the remote up to your computer for programing open harmony remote software
on the main screen you will see your activities, on the activity you want to add the button to select "customize buttons".
I added pure audio button on the "additional buttons" so it shows up on the screen of the remote. Or if you want you could make one of the standard buttons the pure audio button.

Can't remember if i had to teach it that button or not.

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post #11082 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Confirm that you have Dynamic Range Control OFF in the OPPO. It only applies when the OPPO is doing the decoding (e.g., LPCM output). Also, when comparing LPCM vs Bitstream output you must leave Secondary Audio off as it alters Bitstream output.

Finally, check your AVR to make sure it has Dialog Normalization enabled.

Indeed, LPCM and Bitstream should sound the same, so if you are hearing a difference then there's likely a settings error you haven't spotted yet.
--Bob

My understanding was that the only setting in the Audio Processing menu that had any effect on digital audio output was the A/V Sync, and that all others only affected the analog outputs.

I have tested with Dynamic Range Control both OFF and ON in the OPPO, and with Output Volume set to both Fixed and Variable. I have also tested with switching DRC off in my receiver (with DRC also off on the Oppo). The volume output using DTS-HD MA remains higher with the Oppo HDMI Audio set to Bitstream than it does set to LPCM. The same holds true of DD True HD bitstream vs LPCM. For some reason the LPCM output volume is slightly reduced (approximately 5 dB) over that of Bitstream. I am testing this all on the Spears & Munsil 2nd Edition disc, on the AUDIO CALIBRATION, A/V SYNC Continuous: 24p pattern. This is where I first noticed the issue. Also on this pattern the "beeps" are occasionally replaced by a pop or a crackle when playing back on the DD TrueHD with bitstream output.

Interestingly, trying to switch from LPCM to Bitstream while playing the alternate DD TrueHD track caused the Oppo to freeze. The pause and play indicators show responses to the remote, but after play is pushed and the green play arrow is displayed, the still frame continues to be displayed. Pressing stop and restarting the disc worked. This is one of various anomalies I have encounter while attempting to play DD TrueHD on the Oppo. It seems to struggle with outputting the DD TrueHD via bitstream. I was leaning toward these anomalies being caused by the receiver, but now that the Oppo froze as a result, and with others having issues with DD TrueHD soundtracks using other receivers with the Oppo, I'm leaning more toward the Oppo being the culprit.

I have a theory on the volume difference, and I'll be back as soon as I test it.
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post #11083 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 08:50 PM
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^ Ok. Both the DTS-HD MA and DD TrueHD tracks are showing a dialog normalization of +4 on my receiver when they begin play with bitstream output set on the Oppo. When the Oppo is set to LPCM output prior to playing the disc, the dialog normalization indication does not appear. I also measured the volume difference using an SPL meter, and it measures exactly 4 dB. So my working theory is that the Oppo is not applying dialog normalization when converting the bitstreams to LPCM, and the LPCM does not carry the metadata for the dialog normalization. Does that sound reasonable to you Bob? I need to find a few tracks with different dialog normalization numbers to confirm this theory.

I used the Pink Noise 500 Hz to 2 kHz (-30 dBFS) on the S&M version 2 BD to confirm the volume levels.
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post #11084 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 08:53 PM
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Just backwards. The OPPO IS applying Dialog Normalization for LPCM output. Your AVR also needs to do that for Bitstream input for them to match.

The unit doing the decoding applies this.
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post #11085 of 17728 Old 08-18-2013, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Just backwards. The OPPO IS applying Dialog Normalization for LPCM output. Your AVR also needs to do that for Bitstream input for them to match.

The unit doing the decoding applies this.
--Bob

The AVR is indicating that it is applying dialog normalization of +4, which I believe means that it is boosting the output 4 dB above reference. There is no way to turn this on or off on the AVR that I can find. It is not mentioned at all in the operation manual for the AVR, but the display on the AVR indicates DIAL NORM +4 when the DTS or Dolby bitstreams start to play from the Spears and Munsil disc. DIAL NORM indications also appear on the AVR display when other discs are played, and when it is receiving DD bitstream from my TV.

If it were the Oppo applying the +4dB normalization correction and the AVR wasn't, wouldn't the LPCM be 4dB louder than the bitstream output? I'm pretty sure the +4 is the amount of the correction to be made, rather than the Dialnorm value which is always a negative number.

How do I know for sure that the OPPO is applying Dialog Normalization to the LPCM output? Does the Oppo indicate anywhere whether Dialog Normalization is taking place and how much is being applied?

Edit: Sorry, I think I forgot to mention above that the bitstream outputs are 4 dB louder than the LPCM.
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post #11086 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 01:27 AM
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Hi, sorry for jumping in but i have quick question.

I understand this player has twin hdmi inputs for using it as external video processor but is it possible to use oppo103 as external hd sound decoder ?

this would be great because my pre-pro doesnt support hd sound .. tnx
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post #11087 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie 1.8 View Post

Thanks for your reply, Bill. I must not have subscribed to this thread, as I just now ran across your reply.

Well, yes, HDMI1 only does work fine. But, the manual reads that dual HDMI will ensure the best possible picture quality and the highest possible audio resolution.

But from 103's manual, on page 53, it reads, "Split A/V (recommended) – Use HDMI 1 OUT as the dedicated video output port and HDMI 2 OUT as the dedicated audio output port. This setting will ensure the best possible picture quality and the highest possible audio resolution".

For example, I know if I go the dual HDMI route, I can bitstream DSD from my SACDs to my receiver (which can decode DSD over HDMI). Assuming this is an advantage, is this the only advantage in going dual HDMI? Or are there other audio advantages? I've got a support email into OPPO, and plan on talking with them tomorrow.

If they tell me the only advantage is in passing DSD, then I'll probably keep with the HDMI1 output only, as, I'm unable to hear a difference between passing DSD via HDMI2, or passing PCM.
As far as my findings go split a/v does improve audio quality of movies sound tracks, seem to give more detail in the bass region.
Hifi specialists meridian has a seperate component just audio extraction over hdmi the hd 621,they believe video signals should be kept away from audio equipment leading to less signal degradation.
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post #11088 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarcO View Post

Hi, sorry for jumping in but i have quick question.

I understand this player has twin hdmi inputs for using it as external video processor but is it possible to use oppo103 as external hd sound decoder ?

this would be great because my pre-pro doesnt support hd sound .. tnx
Yes , you can use the players analog outs to connect to the pre's multi channel input, all you need are some decent quality rca cables.
You need to set up the players audio processing and your set to go
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post #11089 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 03:55 AM
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wow, thats great but just to be sure what i was thinking...

i would like to use third device (player of some sort) that outputs TrueHd and DtsMa as bitstream to oppo 103 hdmi input...

can oppo than decode that stream and send it to my pre/pro as multichannel pcm?

that way this player will have role of external sound decoder to my gear

tnx again

ps. sorry for my bad english
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post #11090 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by LarcO View Post

wow, thats great but just to be sure what i was thinking...

i would like to use third device (player of some sort) that outputs TrueHd and DtsMa as bitstream to oppo 103 hdmi input...

can oppo than decode that stream and send it to my pre/pro as multichannel pcm?

No, it won't do that. See the FAQ: What are the specs of the digital inputs?

-Bill
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post #11091 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 04:31 AM
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@ wmcclain

thats what I was aiming at....to bad
tnx
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post #11092 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 07:11 AM
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@ wmcclain

thats what I was aiming at....to bad
tnx

Will your third device output TrueHD and DTS-MA as multi-channel LPCM?
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post #11093 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 07:52 AM
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@KC-Technerd

unfortunately no,

now i see from the link wmcclain posted that its impossible, oppo 103 doesnt support TrueHd/DtsHdMa on hdmi input
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post #11094 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 09:06 AM
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@LarcO... why don`t you want to use the Oppo as a media player? I have sold my Dune and didn`t regret it so far.
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post #11095 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 10:02 AM
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Does anyone have an opinion on setting the sharpness to either +1 or +2 or leaving at 0. I find the +2 setting makes the picture seem a bit artificial while the +1 setting does add a bit of detail to the picture. I had my sharpness setting at +1 watching a footrball game on artificial turf and the turf sseemed to "shimmer" a bit. Setting the sharpness back to 0 seemed to correct this. I think I will keep it at 0. I am using HDMI 1 output.
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post #11096 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 10:04 AM
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In the latest firmware, I recommend leaving Sharpness at 0 for the most accurate rendering.
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post #11097 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 10:09 AM
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Does anyone have an opinion on setting the sharpness to either +1 or +2 or leaving at 0. I find the +2 setting makes the picture seem a bit artificial while the +1 setting does add a bit of detail to the picture. I had my sharpness setting at +1 watching a footrball game on artificial turf and the turf sseemed to "shimmer" a bit. Setting the sharpness back to 0 seemed to correct this. I think I will keep it at 0. I am using HDMI 1 output.

Zero here. In my opinion, although +1 does look a bit sharper and more detailed it is artificial and doesn't represent the actual source material. My preference is to stay accurate to the source material. I believe some previous comments about using +1 were in response to the idea that a minimal level of QDEO noise reduction is always applied to HMDI 1 output, and some believed that was softening the image. Compared to HDMI2 and my previous Blu-ray player, I'm not detecting any softening of the image on HDMI 1 with sharpness at zero.
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post #11098 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEVE MORRILL View Post

Does anyone have an opinion on setting the sharpness to either +1 or +2 or leaving at 0. I find the +2 setting makes the picture seem a bit artificial while the +1 setting does add a bit of detail to the picture. I had my sharpness setting at +1 watching a footrball game on artificial turf and the turf sseemed to "shimmer" a bit. Setting the sharpness back to 0 seemed to correct this. I think I will keep it at 0. I am using HDMI 1 output.

Try using HDMI-2.
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post #11099 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Sony says: the solution is to set the player to LPCM if you have the problem. This indeed works. They originally said they would issue a new version of the title correcting the problem but it looks like that is not going to happen? Maybe with the "mastered in 4k" marketing push? I haven't kept up.

Reports are that the "Mastered in 4k" copy of Total Recall does not suffer the audio dropouts of the standard version. Unfortunately, that disc only contains the theatrical cut (no unrated cut) and has no bonus features.

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post #11100 of 17728 Old 08-19-2013, 11:28 AM
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@Holzohr

mainly because i love my HTPC setup and how XBMC handles subtitles (automatic download ), habits i cant get rid of...also Im concerned about cinavia on future oppo firmwares, that is second reason.
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