Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 373 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Ground Loops come in different flavors -- and they don't all "hum". DC voltage bias produces transients -- "clicks" or "pops"

Is the Pioneer you tried a 2-prong or 3-prong power cord player? Did you connect up ALL the same connections to it that you had originally connected to the OPPO?

If you didn't have ALL The connections attached to it, then disconnect those from the OPPO as well and see if the problem goes away.

If the Pioneer is 2-prong, which I think is correct, then try this:

Get a 3-prong to 2-prong "cheater" adapter (Radio Shack or a hardware store) and put that on the end of the OPPO's 3-prong power cord. The cheater may have a ground wire that's to be attached separately from just plugging it in -- do *NOT* attach that ground wire to anything.

See if that makes your "clicks" and "pops" go away with the OPPO. You may need to try both ways around of plugging in that 2-prong combo.

If this makes the problem go away, then, given what you've already observed with the Pioneer, you can be PRETTY SURE you really DO have a Ground Loop.
--Bob


Excellent idea but I already tried it on the 103. The popping and clicking sound is still there even with the cheater plug. I had a ground loop problem in my previous home so I bought the cheater plug. Sure enough, I had a ground loop problem.

The pioneer receiver does not have a 3-prong. Just a 2-prong.

But my current home does not have ground loop problem.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:32 PM
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^ Just to be clear, you tried the cheater plug both ways around?

And in your Pioneer test, you had all the cables connected to it that you normally use with the OPPO?

If you believe you've eliminated the possibility of an external cause, then of course you should get in touch with OPPO. They may have other suggestions for diagnosing this, or may just swap out the player as a diagnostic step.
--Bob

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Old 08-21-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Just to be clear, you tried the cheater plug both ways around?

And in your Pioneer test, you had all the cables connected to it that you normally use with the OPPO?

If you believe you've eliminated the possibility of an external cause, then of course you should get in touch with OPPO. They may have other suggestions for diagnosing this, or may just swap out the player as a diagnostic step.
--Bob


What do you mean by trying the cheater plug BOTH ways around? I used the cheater plug on the 103 only. Do you want me to try it on the pioneer receiver as well? That would make no since because the pioneer only got 2-prong.

Yes, I had all the cables connected to it that I normally use with the 103.

I am in talk with OPPO at this moment.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Aside from what Bob posted, I'll add that a ground potential can create pops or clicks. Try this while playing back your CD: pause playback, fast forward or rewind. Do any of those things also create a click/pop? The Oppo outputs fairly high voltage over the analog outs, its not impossible that its a poor match for your amp. All this stuff is alchemy, not science, and strange things happen for no reason. The fact than a different brand player does not do this means very little, since it could have 50% of the output voltage as the Oppo. Grounding does sometimes cure these type issues.


Yes, I just tried that and I can hear the click/pop when I fast forward or rewind.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:44 PM
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Anybody old enough to remember the "coffin" stereo/consoles of the 60's with the turntable, radio and a ga-zillion speakers (which I still do not understand why they did that) with access via an "open lid" look?

I more than remember them. I have an RCA/Victor "New Vista" Victrola Model VJT50W, which my grandfather bought in 1967. It looks exactly like the one HERE. It only looks like it has a ga-zillion speakers. Behind the front grille (which appears to have 32 openings) it only has a woofer, tweeter, and horn midrange on each side of the cabinet. I could be wrong, but I don't think any of the old consoles actually had more than 2 speakers, with 3 or maybe 4 drivers each.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

Yes, I just tried that and I can hear the click/pop when I fast forward or rewind.

That's a voltage potential on the ground. WHY its there is a separate question, but its caused by a voltage discharge when the signal is interrupted. Do you have a different amp/AVR to connect the Oppo to and test? Sometimes its a faulty amp, sometimes its a faulty source device, sometimes its just a quirk resulting from 2 specific components being connected. If your amp/AVR has multiple analog inputs, try a different one.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

What do you mean by trying the cheater plug BOTH ways around? I used the cheater plug on the 103 only. Do you want me to try it on the pioneer receiver as well? That would make no since because the pioneer only got 2-prong.
The cheater plugs usually don't have a polarized plug, so you can plug it into the AC socket 2 ways which could make a difference.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

That's a voltage potential on the ground. WHY its there is a separate question, but its caused by a voltage discharge when the signal is interrupted. Do you have a different amp/AVR to connect the Oppo to and test? Sometimes its a faulty amp, sometimes its a faulty source device, sometimes its just a quirk resulting from 2 specific components being connected. If your amp/AVR has multiple analog inputs, try a different one.

Yes, I even tried a different analog and I still hear the click/pop sound.

No, I do not have another amp or receiver to do further testing.

Let me ask you this. I bought the 103 because I hear it got a nice DAC built in. If I use the HDMI cable for CD listening, am I still using the nice built in DAC?

Or is the built in DAC only for Analog connection?
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Just to be clear, you tried the cheater plug both ways around?

And in your Pioneer test, you had all the cables connected to it that you normally use with the OPPO?

If you believe you've eliminated the possibility of an external cause, then of course you should get in touch with OPPO. They may have other suggestions for diagnosing this, or may just swap out the player as a diagnostic step.
--Bob


What do you mean by trying the cheater plug BOTH ways around? I used the cheater plug on the 103 only. Do you want me to try it on the pioneer receiver as well? That would make no since because the pioneer only got 2-prong.

Yes, I had all the cables connected to it that I normally use with the 103.

I am in talk with OPPO at this moment.

What I meant was that there two ways a two prong plug can be plugged into a wall socket -- i.e., by rotating that plug 180 degrees. It actually does make a difference for stuff like this. So put the cheater on the end of the 3-prong cord and try it both ways round in the wall socket. If EITHER way around cures the problem, then that says it is a Ground Loop.
--Bob

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Old 08-21-2013, 04:20 PM
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. . . .

Let me ask you this. I bought the 103 because I hear it got a nice DAC built in. If I use the HDMI cable for CD listening, am I still using the nice built in DAC?

Or is the built in DAC only for Analog connection?

The DACs in the player are only in use when you are listening to its ANALOG audio outputs. For HDMI Audio, the audio goes to your AVR in Digital form, and it is the DACS in the AVR which convert that to Analog for output.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:22 PM
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64 channels? My house isn't big enough for that many speakers.

I'm sure people said that back in the 50's with the Khorns.

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Old 08-21-2013, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

What I meant was that there two ways a two prong plug can be plugged into a wall socket -- i.e., by rotating that plug 180 degrees. It actually does make a difference for stuff like this. So put the cheater on the end of the 3-prong cord and try it both ways round in the wall socket. If EITHER way around cures the problem, then that says it is a Ground Loop.
--Bob


What country are you from because I am in the US. When you rotate it to 180 degrees, it does not fit. Here are some pictures:







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Old 08-21-2013, 04:43 PM
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The DACs in the player are only in use when you are listening to its ANALOG audio outputs. For HDMI Audio, the audio goes to your AVR in Digital form, and it is the DACS in the AVR which convert that to Analog for output.
--Bob



That sucks because I was hoping the DAC is also built in for the HDMI connection as well. Listening to CD music by using the HDMI cable just does not sound very good. It just does not sound very detail or clean to me. I prefer the Analog connection because of the built in DAC.

I have the Pioneer Elite SC07 receiver and I don't believe it has a DAC built in.

OPPO just emailed me and told me to use HDMI connection for CD music listening. I may have to use my Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi for CD and SACD music listening. And using the 103 to watch movies.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

That sucks because I was hoping the DAC is also built in for the HDMI connection as well. Listening to CD music by using the HDMI cable just does not sound very good. It just does not sound very detail or clean to me. I prefer the Analog connection because of the built in DAC.
There's no way a DAC could be used in sending audio over an HDMI connection. DAC stands for Digital to Analog Converter. The whole point of the DAC is to convert the signal from digital to analog - once it's been converted to analog you would have to use an ADC (Analog to Digital Converter) to convert it back to digital to send it over HDMI. If you use the analog outputs on the Oppo, you're using the DAC in the Oppo. If you're using one of the digital outputs on the Oppo (including HDMI), you're using the DAC in your receiver.
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What country are you from because I am in the US. When you rotate it to 180 degrees, it does not fit.
The cheater plugs I've used in the past haven't been polarized (one prong wider than the other), so it's possible to rotate them 180 degrees and try them plugged in both ways. And yes, I'm in the US, as is Bob.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:03 PM
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There's no way a DAC could be used in sending audio over an HDMI connection. DAC stands for Digital to Analog Converter. The whole point of the DAC is to convert the signal from digital to analog - once it's been converted to analog you would have to use an ADC (Analog to Digital Converter) to convert it back to digital to send it over HDMI. If you use the analog outputs on the Oppo, you're using the DAC in the Oppo. If you're using one of the digital outputs on the Oppo (including HDMI), you're using the DAC in your receiver.

The cheater plugs I've used in the past haven't been polarized (one prong wider than the other), so it's possible to rotate them 180 degrees and try them plugged in both ways. And yes, I'm in the US, as is Bob.

You are using technical terms that I am not understanding. But I believe my Pioneer Elite SC07 does not have a DAC built in. I just went through the user manual and did not see a DAC buit in.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:10 PM
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You are using technical terms that I am not understanding. But I believe my Pioneer Elite SC07 does not have a DAC built in. I just went through the user manual and did not see a DAC buit in.

 

Ok, let's try this a different way.

 

Anything you listen to that is not a cassette tape or vinyl is digital content.

 

Speakers output analog content - we hear and see in "analog" so to speak.

 

To get the digital content into our analog world, you need a DAC - a digital-analog convertor.

 

RCA is a conduit for sending an analog signal, as are speaker cables.

 

HDMI is a conduit for sending a digital signal - this is why you cannot use the DAC in the OPPO over HDMI through your receiver.

 

You connect your receiver to your speakers using speaker cables, right? (Those cables with banana plug ends, spade ends, or perhaps just bare wire connections). Therefore, you must use a DAC to convert that digital signal to analog, and that DAC is in your receiver (but perhaps it's not "very good", which is why there is no mention of it in the manual.

 

CD players have DACs. iPods have DACs. Receivers have DACs. Anything that produces a sound you can hear must have a DAC so that you can hear the digital content you send through.

 

Therefore, if any device you have accepts a digital signal (HDMI, Toslink, S/PDIF, USB etc.), that signal must pass through a DAC inside that device (or another further down the chain) so that you can hear it.

 

Does that help?

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Old 08-21-2013, 06:11 PM
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That sucks because I was hoping the DAC is also built in for the HDMI connection as well. Listening to CD music by using the HDMI cable just does not sound very good. It just does not sound very detail or clean to me. I prefer the Analog connection because of the built in DAC.

I have the Pioneer Elite SC07 receiver and I don't believe it has a DAC built in.

OPPO just emailed me and told me to use HDMI connection for CD music listening. I may have to use my Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi for CD and SACD music listening. And using the 103 to watch movies.

It has several of them.  If it has digital inputs and analog outputs, it must have Digital-to-Analog Converters.


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Old 08-21-2013, 06:27 PM
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You connect your receiver to your speakers using RCA cables, right?
Hopefully, he's using speaker cables - possibly with banana plugs or spade connectors on the ends. wink.gif
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:29 PM
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Hopefully, he's using speaker cables - possibly with banana plugs or spade connectors on the ends. wink.gif

Sorry yes, you are correct. I wasn't thinking. Editing now :)

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Old 08-21-2013, 06:54 PM
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A while back a poster mentioned audio drops from a few blu's one being the ever so popular problem child "Total Recall "Well happy to report back just finished viewing it threw my 103 & Integra DHC 80.3 with no issues what so ever . My 103 was set to bitstream . My Integra set to through letting the 103 do the processing. Hopefully that will help those having issues narrowing it down to there AVR or Prepro having issues with that particular movie not the 103 .
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:14 PM
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You are using technical terms that I am not understanding. But I believe my Pioneer Elite SC07 does not have a DAC built in. I just went through the user manual and did not see a DAC buit in.

Your Pioneer SC-07 has 192 kHz / 24-bit Wolfson WM8740 DACs built in. They are listed on the overview, specifications, and product brochure on the Pioneer website page for your receiver at: Pioneer SC-07. Your user manual does not specifically refer to DAC, and they are often not specifically referred to in owners manuals.

Any audio receiver that has digital audio input (HDMI, Optical, Co-axial, etc.) must have a DAC (meaning Digital to Analog Converter) in order to convert the digital audio signal into analog.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:28 PM
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That sucks because I was hoping the DAC is also built in for the HDMI connection as well. Listening to CD music by using the HDMI cable just does not sound very good. It just does not sound very detail or clean to me. I prefer the Analog connection because of the built in DAC.
.

Quick reality check:
When you use the stereo analog inputs to your AVR, its re-digitizing the audio and then using its own DAC to reconvert the audio again, so you're still not really using the player's DAC. If HDMI really sounds that much different, I'd suspect that you have a setup issue in the AVR that's applying some unwanted processing on the HDMI input.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:39 PM
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Quick reality check:
When you use the stereo analog inputs to your AVR, its re-digitizing the audio and then using its own DAC to reconvert the audio again, so you're still not really using the player's DAC. If HDMI really sounds that much different, I'd suspect that you have a setup issue in the AVR that's applying some unwanted processing on the HDMI input.

His AVR has a pure direct mode where no digital processing is applied to analog inputs. (It also has 7.1 analog input.) I can't tell for certain by what is said in the manual, but in that pure direct mode the receiver may not be re-digitizing the audio. Of course in all other modes it would be re-digitizing the audio, as you said.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:00 PM
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I just attempted to use the Cinemanow app on the 103. The 103 shows up as a device on my account online but when I look at my library on the 103 it shows nothing there. On the computer all the library and the device shows so they are definitely on the same account. Cinemanow help had me try several things but nothing worked. Anyone else had this problem with the 103 and Cinemanow. I live in the US so I know it isn't a country problem. Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

Anyone??
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:03 PM
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Anyone??

Sorry, I only have one item in my Cinemanow library, and it works fine on my BDP-103. I can't think of anything to suggest.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:46 PM
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Hopefully, he's using speaker cables - possibly with banana plugs or spade connectors on the ends. wink.gif

No, no...I am actually using my shoe strings to connect my speakers to the receiver. LOL!!


Yes, I am using speaker cables with banana plugs.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:53 PM
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His AVR has a pure direct mode where no digital processing is applied to analog inputs. (It also has 7.1 analog input.) I can't tell for certain by what is said in the manual, but in that pure direct mode the receiver may not be re-digitizing the audio. Of course in all other modes it would be re-digitizing the audio, as you said.


That is correct. When I listen to CD music, I use the Pure Direct Mode on the receiver. The LCD on the receiver is showing ANALOG DIRECT which means I am using Pure Audio Direct.

I noticed on the remote control of the 103, I see a Pure Direct button. But I believe that will only work if I am using Analog connection. It will not work with HDMI cable connection.

I am wondering if I use HDMI cable for CD music, will the Pure Direct button on the 103 make the CD music sound any better? I will have to give it a try tomorrow.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:56 PM
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I just attempted to use the Cinemanow app on the 103. The 103 shows up as a device on my account online but when I look at my library on the 103 it shows nothing there. On the computer all the library and the device shows so they are definitely on the same account. Cinemanow help had me try several things but nothing worked. Anyone else had this problem with the 103 and Cinemanow. I live in the US so I know it isn't a country problem. Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.

Anyone??

About the only thing you CAN do is de-activate the CinemaNow connection to your account and re-activate it. You can de-activare a device from your account on their web site. When you go into the CinemaNow app and check its settings, it should show that it needs to be re-activated. Do that -- the usual exchange of access code with their web site and check again.

If the app on the OPPO shows CinemaNow is still active even after you de-activated on the web site, then somehow they've got the activation screwed up. You can do a full Reset of the OPPO (Reset Accounts and Settings) which will discard your network settings your Setup settings and ALL the app login stuff, and after a power cycle, going back into CinemaNow should start it up afresh so that you can re-activate it. NOTE: De-activate on their web site first, then do the Reset in the OPPO if you are forced to this.

Another thing to try would be to make a purchase using the app in the OPPO and see if that shows up in your library on the web site. Do this while on the phone with CinemaNow so they can credit back the test purchase or some such. I suspect CinemaNow has got your account messed up somehow so that the app in the OPPO is activated, but not REALLY attached to your account. That should not be possible of course, but every one of these services has their glitches from time to time.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

That is correct. When I listen to CD music, I use the Pure Direct Mode on the receiver. The LCD on the receiver is showing ANALOG DIRECT which means I am using Pure Audio Direct.

I noticed on the remote control of the 103, I see a Pure Direct button. But I believe that will only work if I am using Analog connection. It will not work with HDMI cable connection.

I am wondering if I use HDMI cable for CD music, will the Pure Direct button on the 103 make the CD music sound any better? I will have to give it a try tomorrow.

With the HDMI connection you'll be hearing the sound as converted to analog by the DACs in your SC-07. With CD music and Pure Direct, all the other digital processing features in the SC-07 will be bypassed, so it should sound different than if you have the SC-07 in another mode. If you want to hear how the Oppo's DACs sound (with them doing the digital to analog conversion), you must use the analog outputs on the Oppo.
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Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post

Anyone still having some issues with the player producing a static like noise through the speakers between use generated media containers and when stopping playback of CD-Audio and SACD media?

I found something in the Pioneer Elite SC-07 Operating Instructions (page 38) that MIGHT explain this.

"• PURE DIRECT – Analog and 2 channel PCM sources are heard without any digital processing.1"

"Note
1 There are cases where a brief noise is heard before playback of sources other than PCM. Please select AUTO SURROUND or DIRECT if this is a problem."

If you haven't checked it already, I'd recommend trying the DIRECT setting with the 2 channel analog from the Oppo and see if you're getting the same static. If it only occurs on PURE DIRECT, then it could be what Pioneer is referring to in this note.
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

With the HDMI connection you'll be hearing the sound as converted to analog by the DACs in your SC-07. With CD music and Pure Direct, all the other digital processing features in the SC-07 will be bypassed, so it should sound different than if you have the SC-07 in another mode. If you want to hear how the Oppo's DACs sound (with them doing the digital to analog conversion), you must use the analog outputs on the Oppo.
I found something in the Pioneer Elite SC-07 Operating Instructions (page 38) that MIGHT explain this.

"• PURE DIRECT – Analog and 2 channel PCM sources are heard without any digital processing.1"

"Note
1 There are cases where a brief noise is heard before playback of sources other than PCM. Please select AUTO SURROUND or DIRECT if this is a problem."

If you haven't checked it already, I'd recommend trying the DIRECT setting with the 2 channel analog from the Oppo and see if you're getting the same static. If it only occurs on PURE DIRECT, then it could be what Pioneer is referring to in this note.

Thanks for the great information!!

I will try it out today. I believe you have found the problem.
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Oppo Bdp 103 3d Blu Ray Player , Oppo Bdp 105 Blu Ray Player , Oppo Bdp 93 Blu Ray Player , Oppo Digital Inc
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