Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 415 - AVS Forum
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post #12421 of 17729 Old 10-15-2013, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post


......But for maximum 1080p picture quality out of the 103 you must provide the original untouched "native" 720p or 1080i content that corresponds to the HDTV channel you are watching. Ideally, if possible, for maximum picture improvement and user convenience you want to set your FIOS DVR to deliver "native" 720p or 1080i, and NOT TO DO ANY UPCONVERTING in that FIOS box. This "native" setting will simply automatically pass on the untouched 720p or 1080i channel content through the FIOS box and on to the 103 for processing and upconverting to 1080p. You will not have to do anything yourself manually, if "native" is an available setting on the FIOS box.......

....So you do not want to feed 720p that's been upconverted/interlaced to 1080i by the FIOS box, and then feed that faux-1080i to the 103 where it will then get deinterlaced up to 1080p. Results will be very inferior on ESPN and FOX sports programs especially, but similarly inferior on any 720p program.

==> You DO want to use the 103 to upconvert "native" 720p/1080i from FIOS for delivery to the Kuro as 1080p.

Since I've lost track of my childhood secret decoder ring, I had to do a significant amount of internet searching until I found out how to get my Verizon FiOS set top box to send output in "native" format. Gee, who knew that the Verizon boxes had "hidden menus" (not I). Anyhow, now I have the set top sending out untouched "native" content. Can't wait until tomorrow when my 103 gets here and I can set it up to feed my plasma cable content cleanly upconverted to wonderful 1080p. Thanks again for the advice.
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post #12422 of 17729 Old 10-15-2013, 07:52 PM
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I don't know... if you're spending 499 for the 103, why not spend 495 for the cable. It does have long grain copper conductors, which apparently are better than short or no grain copper conductors. It also is bidirectional ethernet communication capable... you know... for efficient operation. It also has signal conductors, which make it ARC capable.

It is compatible with most HDMI devices, maybe they can list which HDMI devices they are not compatible with, so as not to spend 495 to communicate with them.

I have no idea how my monoprice HDMI cables work with my Oppo, given that they lack any long or short grains. I must be lucky, but do feel inadequate.
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post #12423 of 17729 Old 10-15-2013, 08:41 PM
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Perhaps my $5 cables are mutli-grained. I'll call China and find out.
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post #12424 of 17729 Old 10-15-2013, 09:43 PM
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The only thing I know that is long grain or short grain is rice. And it sure doesn't cost $495.

Someone who knows once said, "There's a sucker born every minute." This just proves it.

Imagine the person bragging to his friends about his system "...and the CABLE cost $495!"
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post #12425 of 17729 Old 10-15-2013, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by whippersnapper View Post

Since I've lost track of my childhood secret decoder ring, I had to do a significant amount of internet searching until I found out how to get my Verizon FiOS set top box to send output in "native" format. Gee, who knew that the Verizon boxes had "hidden menus" (not I). Anyhow, now I have the set top sending out untouched "native" content. Can't wait until tomorrow when my 103 gets here and I can set it up to feed my plasma cable content cleanly upconverted to wonderful 1080p. Thanks again for the advice.
Just one more comment...

If your Verizon box is a Motorola-family device (as I believe it is), you're probably referring to the "hidden hardware setup menu" being reached by having the unit powered off while the TV is still powered on, and then pushing the MENU button on the front panel of the box. This triggers that hardware setup menu going out to the TV, where you can configure both audio and video via HDMI. And it is here that you would find the "native" option. Or, maybe there's some other method with your particular DVR model.

I believe these Verizon FIOS voxes are a cousin of the Motorola DCX* boxes (and their OEM equivalents from Cisco, etc.) which used to have a problem "retaining native" with previous firmware versions depending on whether you used an AVR or not in between the DVR and the HDTV or if you connected the DVR directly to the HDTV. This was tied to early problems with the HDMI handshakes involved when there were three or more devices in the HDMI relay between source and destination.

In fact, this loss of "native" (and reversion back to a default of fixed 720p or fixed 1080i, neither of which was what you wanted) was probably the most irritating thing about trying to use the desired "native" setting. The workaround was either (a) be sure to power the DVR OFF FIRST, and DVR ON LAST, when you had an AVR between the DVR and HDTV, a trick which usually was successful except with certain AVR brands like Denon whose settings seemed to counteract the trick, or (b) connect the DVR DIRECTLY TO THE HDTV VIA HDMI and not involve the AVR for video, a method that was pretty much 100% always successful... although you might really wanted to have used the AVR to route video.

More recent firmware in these Motorola-family (and Verizon cousins) boxes seems to have finally overcome this "loss of native" problem completely, even when AVR's are between the DVR and HDTV. You may or may not be so lucky with your Verizon DVR.

So... my recommendation is to periodically confirm that the Verizon box is putting out 720p when you're watching a 720p channel, and is putting out 1080i when you're watching a 1080i channel. The "i" (info) button on the 103's remote will display two bands of information, one at the top of the screen showing information about audio/video input to the 103, and a second at the bottom of the screen showing audio/video output from the 103 on both HDMI-1 and HDMI-2. You want to see the correct 720p or 1080i "input" information in that top band, and of course you'll see 1080p/60 in the "output" information band at the bottom.

In other words, you really do want to confirm that your FIOS box is always putting out "native" as you've set, and is not prone to the "losing native" issue we users of the Motorola DCH/DCX equipment previously faced for many years. Hopefully this is now truly fixed in current firmware.
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post #12426 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

I don't know... if you're spending 499 for the 103, why not spend 495 for the cable. It does have long grain copper conductors, which apparently are better than short or no grain copper conductors. It also is bidirectional ethernet communication capable... you know... for efficient operation. It also has signal conductors, which make it ARC capable.

It is compatible with most HDMI devices, maybe they can list which HDMI devices they are not compatible with, so as not to spend 495 to communicate with them.

I have no idea how my monoprice HDMI cables work with my Oppo, given that they lack any long or short grains. I must be lucky, but do feel inadequate.
Don't feel inadequate, feel lucky. A digital signal either arrives at the other end of a cable or it doesn't.
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post #12427 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

Just one more comment...

If your Verizon box is a Motorola-family device (as I believe it is), you're probably referring to the "hidden hardware setup menu" being reached by having the unit powered off while the TV is still powered on, and then pushing the MENU button on the front panel of the box. This triggers that hardware setup menu going out to the TV, where you can configure both audio and video via HDMI. And it is here that you would find the "native" option. Or, maybe there's some other method with your particular DVR model.

I believe these Verizon FIOS voxes are a cousin of the Motorola DCX* boxes (and their OEM equivalents from Cisco, etc.) which used to have a problem "retaining native" with previous firmware versions depending on whether you used an AVR or not in between the DVR and the HDTV or if you connected the DVR directly to the HDTV. This was tied to early problems with the HDMI handshakes involved when there were three or more devices in the HDMI relay between source and destination.

In fact, this loss of "native" (and reversion back to a default of fixed 720p or fixed 1080i, neither of which was what you wanted) was probably the most irritating thing about trying to use the desired "native" setting. The workaround was either (a) be sure to power the DVR OFF FIRST, and DVR ON LAST, when you had an AVR between the DVR and HDTV, a trick which usually was successful except with certain AVR brands like Denon whose settings seemed to counteract the trick, or (b) connect the DVR DIRECTLY TO THE HDTV VIA HDMI and not involve the AVR for video, a method that was pretty much 100% always successful... although you might really wanted to have used the AVR to route video.

More recent firmware in these Motorola-family (and Verizon cousins) boxes seems to have finally overcome this "loss of native" problem completely, even when AVR's are between the DVR and HDTV. You may or may not be so lucky with your Verizon DVR.

So... my recommendation is to periodically confirm that the Verizon box is putting out 720p when you're watching a 720p channel, and is putting out 1080i when you're watching a 1080i channel. The "i" (info) button on the 103's remote will display two bands of information, one at the top of the screen showing information about audio/video input to the 103, and a second at the bottom of the screen showing audio/video output from the 103 on both HDMI-1 and HDMI-2. You want to see the correct 720p or 1080i "input" information in that top band, and of course you'll see 1080p/60 in the "output" information band at the bottom.

In other words, you really do want to confirm that your FIOS box is always putting out "native" as you've set, and is not prone to the "losing native" issue we users of the Motorola DCH/DCX equipment previously faced for many years. Hopefully this is now truly fixed in current firmware.


That's a good suggestion - I have Comcast with a Motorola RNG200N - I can set it to 'native' but the next time it's turned on after having been turned off for a few hours it's back to the default of 1080p/60 (even though Comcast cannot actually broadcast 1080p) - so good to occasionally confirm it's still set to native...
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post #12428 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 05:35 AM
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Mine works fine with the Harmony One ... I then have a 15 second pause ...
Just wondering why a full 15 second pause?

Every once in a while, completely inexplicably, things actually go according to plan.
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post #12429 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 06:05 AM
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Guys, how often do you come across Blu-ray discs that don't support resume?

 

The Oppo manual states: "Some Blu-ray Discs do not support resuming and will always play from the beginning."

 

One thing I've always liked about DVD is being able to save the position I was at when I left off watching a movie. If I switch to Blu-ray, am I going to lose this ability for a number of movies?

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post #12430 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by pqwk50 View Post

Guys, how often do you come across Blu-ray discs that don't support resume?

The Oppo manual states: "Some Blu-ray Discs do not support resuming and will always play from the beginning."

One thing I've always liked about DVD is being able to save the position I was at when I left off watching a movie. If I switch to Blu-ray, am I going to lose this ability for a number of movies?

The majority of BD´s in my collection do not support the resume function. However, some recent BD´s have the resume function encoded on the disc.
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post #12431 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by pqwk50 View Post

Guys, how often do you come across Blu-ray discs that don't support resume?

The Oppo manual states: "Some Blu-ray Discs do not support resuming and will always play from the beginning."

One thing I've always liked about DVD is being able to save the position I was at when I left off watching a movie. If I switch to Blu-ray, am I going to lose this ability for a number of movies?

This is not specifically an OPPO issue. It has been one of the most objectionable features of Blu-ray since day 1. Discs with Java programming (which is most of them) cannot be automatically resumed by the player. Discs without Java can be resumed just like DVDs.

Discs with Java are supposed to provide a resume feature through their own programming, but in the early days very few did. It has become more common now but not at all universal.

-Bill
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post #12432 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 06:30 AM
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This is not specifically an OPPO issue.
-Bill

Yeah, I know it's not specific to OPPO.

 

Not having resume IMHO is a good reason not to get Blu-Ray. It would make watching a movie a PITA if you don't finish it all in one sitting. I'm surprised this isn't a priority for Blu-Ray to fix.

It reminds me how disappointed I was that HD-DVD didn't win the format war :( (Seems like prices would be cheaper today with HD-DVD and we'd still have the great features of DVD). I'd rather have lower disc capacity with DVD features than what Blu-Ray offes personally. Blu-Ray seems too riddled with DRM and it has ruined the format and experience for consumers. But not having a Resume feature is really inexcusable IMHO.

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post #12433 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 07:07 AM
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I look at the resume w/BD differently. I'm always so...happy.... when a disc will resume, it's like a little early holiday present. I shut off the system while a new disc is playing, then turn it back on later and the little pop up appears asking if I want to resume. Yay!!!!

Of course, for the majority, it's boo, and then I have to wait through ads, loading, get to scene selection, and try to find my spot.

We could also bring up the issue of loading and all the crud we have to go through to get the disc going in the first place. The early Harry Potter movies would just start after loading. That's heaven.

Love the quality of BD, really dislike the hoops I have to jump through to watch some discs, especially the ones that you can't go directly to menu on. Or the ones you can't even skip 3-5 ads to get to the menu. Do the manufacturers really think my being forced to watch trailers
will make me want to buy those movies?
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post #12434 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by pqwk50 View Post

Yeah, I know it's not specific to OPPO.

Not having resume IMHO is a good reason not to get Blu-Ray. It would make watching a movie a PITA if you don't finish it all in one sitting. I'm surprised this isn't a priority for Blu-Ray to fix.
It reminds me how disappointed I was that HD-DVD didn't win the format war frown.gif (Seems like prices would be cheaper today with HD-DVD and we'd still have the great features of DVD). I'd rather have lower disc capacity with DVD features than what Blu-Ray offes personally. Blu-Ray seems too riddled with DRM and it has ruined the format and experience for consumers. But not having a Resume feature is really inexcusable IMHO.

I feel your pain at both the lack of a resume feature and the demise of HD-DVD. I still have my trusty HD-A35 which plays my 150+ HD-DVD's very well, thankyouverymuch. But the war was lost and I waited until a bluray player that matched the 35 in capabilities and quality came out.

I bought an Oppo BDP-83 a year and a half after the last shot was fired and the barricades were down. It has more than held its own in disk playing, and the enhancements put in have put it far beyond what the A35 is capable of. I've also been able to buy new movies of the highest caliber PQ and AQ and feed them to my HT system, keeping it happy.

The java programming on blurays has been abused and misused by the movie companies, and arguably is inferior to that of HD-DVD, but, like an old romance, that has gone and faded leaving only the sweet memories.

I like when resume is available, but it is a crapshoot in blu. If not, I index to the scene and either rewatch a part (no problem for me) or play the "attempt to find the exact spot I left at last time" game.
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post #12435 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 07:59 AM
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The Roku Stick uses MHL for power and remote control commands as well as audio and video. The Roku Box 3 uses external power and uses HDMI for audio and video only. There are no HDMI CEC or MHL commands available to the Roku Box 3 so you can use the OPPO remote to control the Roku Box 3.

The Roku Box 3 is faster than the Roku Stick. The UI (as far as I remember) is the same.
Also, the Roku 3 box can make use of a WIRED network, which is almost always vastly superior to a wireless connection for streaming reliability.
(It will also still do wireless instead, if you are stuck with that as your only option)

Display: Panasonic P60UT50 (Plasma)
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Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-77 AVR (9.2)
Sources: Oppo BDP-103, Roku 3, Cable...
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post #12436 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by pqwk50 View Post

Yeah, I know it's not specific to OPPO.

Not having resume IMHO is a good reason not to get Blu-Ray. It would make watching a movie a PITA if you don't finish it all in one sitting. I'm surprised this isn't a priority for Blu-Ray to fix.
It reminds me how disappointed I was that HD-DVD didn't win the format war frown.gif (Seems like prices would be cheaper today with HD-DVD and we'd still have the great features of DVD). I'd rather have lower disc capacity with DVD features than what Blu-Ray offes personally. Blu-Ray seems too riddled with DRM and it has ruined the format and experience for consumers. But not having a Resume feature is really inexcusable IMHO.

On some discs, you can add a bookmark where you stop watching, and then go to that position upon resumed replay. A little more cumbersome than automatic resumption, but nevertheless easier than trying to remember where you left off and finding that spot.
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post #12437 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 08:38 AM
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On some discs, you can add a bookmark where you stop watching, and then go to that position upon resumed replay. A little more cumbersome than automatic resumption, but nevertheless easier than trying to remember where you left off and finding that spot.

A work around I have found is just remember what chapter you are on. (I have even gone as far as to write down the chapter number on a sticky note and attach it to the Blu-ray cover.) Then when you go to start viewing again, just navigate to that chapter. Not as convenient as "resume", but functional.
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post #12438 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 09:14 AM
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Also, the Roku 3 box can make use of a WIRED network, which is almost always vastly superior to a wireless connection for streaming reliability.
(It will also still do wireless instead, if you are stuck with that as your only option)


Wait a minute -- the Streaming Stick can't make use of the wired connection available with the BDP-103? I assumed it would just access the internet via the OPPO wired connection. Does the Streaming Stick REQUIRE wireless?

 

I absolutely will be using WIRED network. So if Streaming Stick does not allow WIRED, then my buying decision is made easy.

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post #12439 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 09:17 AM
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On some discs, you can add a bookmark where you stop watching, and then go to that position upon resumed replay. A little more cumbersome than automatic resumption, but nevertheless easier than trying to remember where you left off and finding that spot.


On the DVD player I have now (an Onkyo which has been a stellar performer for me), I have a memory setting feature. If I press the button on the remote, that point in the movie is saved in memory and when I next start the disc, I can tell the player to resume from that point. HEAVEN!  Frankly, I won't even be playing Blu-ray if all the discs don't have this feature. It's so disappointing how the movie studios have ruined the high-def disc format :(

 

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A work around I have found is just remember what chapter you are on. (I have even gone as far as to write down the chapter number on a sticky note and attach it to the Blu-ray cover.) Then when you go to start viewing again, just navigate to that chapter. Not as convenient as "resume", but functional.


Good workaround!

 

Problem though is you still got to wade through unskippable content most of the time just to get to the menu screen. Studios have ruined the format. IMHO you got a problem when a person prefers lesser VQ because the format is so crippled with DRM and "forced-viewing" of stuff you've seen a million times already and don't want to have to sit through again.

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post #12440 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 09:19 AM
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Wait a minute -- the Streaming Stick can't make use of the wired connection available with the BDP-103? I assumed it would just access the internet via the OPPO wired connection. Does the Streaming Stick REQUIRE wireless?

I absolutely will be using WIRED network. So if Streaming Stick does not allow WIRED, then my buying decision is made easy.

That's correct: the RSS uses it's own wireless only. It does not use the player's network connection.

-Bill
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post #12441 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 09:20 AM
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Frankly, I won't even be playing Blu-ray if all the discs don't have this feature.

That'll teach 'em.

-Bill
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post #12442 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 09:45 AM
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That'll teach 'em.

-Bill


LOL. If they were teachable, they wouldn't be spending so much on anti-piracy but instead would be spending on venues for people to purchase and use the content they buy in "legal" ways.

 

I just find it too onerous to not have resume, so not using it is solely to make me happy :)

 

**but ultimately it would teach them if enough people didn't buy/rent Blu-ray :)

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post #12443 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 10:07 AM
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LOL. If they were teachable, they wouldn't be spending so much on anti-piracy but instead would be spending on venues for people to purchase and use the content they buy in "legal" ways.

I just find it too onerous to not have resume, so not using it is solely to make me happy smile.gif

**but ultimately it would teach them if enough people didn't buy/rent Blu-ray smile.gif

If you think that's bad on a movie, try watching a TV series on BD with 4-5 episodes per disc and no resume function.
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post #12444 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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That is why in my house once a disc goes in, it is not removed or stopped until it is watched. That becomes an issue with some of my anime releases, as they often squeeze 8 or 9 episodes on a single Blu-ray.
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post #12445 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 11:04 AM
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That's a good suggestion - I have Comcast with a Motorola RNG200N
This is in fact a Motorola DCX box, manufactured by Cisco.

Quote:
- I can set it to 'native' but the next time it's turned on after having been turned off for a few hours it's back to the default of 1080p/60 (even though Comcast cannot actually broadcast 1080p)
The box is up-converting everything to 1080p by default (like we want the 103 to do and not the Comcast box) because that's what the HDMI handshake said the HDTV can support. Even though you theoretically said you did NOT want the box to do that upconvert when you set it to "native", the "loss of native" firmware problem I described appears to be present in your particular piece of hardware.

I assume you have an AVR between the RNG2000N and your HDTV, with an HDMI "relay" involving two HDMI cables between the three devices.

Quote:
- so good to occasionally confirm it's still set to native...
You might try the "DVR OFF FIRST, DVR ON LAST" trick in terms of the sequence of power on/off. This power on/off sequence trick very often will be sufficient to "retain native".

EDIT: oops, typo on that sentence in my original post. I meant to type DVR but accidentally typed AVR. It is "DVR OFF FIRST, DVR ON LAST", when you have three or more devces in the HDMI relay from source DVR to destination HDTV as providing a good chance this will preserve "native". If there are now FOUR devices involved (DVR -> 103 -> AVR -> HDTV), or just THREE (DVR -> 103 -> HDTV) the jury is still out on whether or not your Comcast box will retain "native" or not.

Or, if you really don't need the AVR for video, why not just connect HDMI directly from Comcast box to the HDTV and also add an optical audio connection from the Comcast box to the AVR. Comcast only delivers Dolby Digital which works perfectly on optical audio, so this arrangement will lose you nothing on the audio side, but will retain "native" on the video side since the single-HDMI-cable solution direct from Comcast DVR to the HDTV is not subject to the "losing native" firmware bug.

EDIT: must not have been thinking clearly here. Obviously if you are going to route your DVR through the 103 and then on to the HDTV or through your AVR to your HDTV, you're not going to be connecting your DVR directly to your HDTV! Yes, if you didn't have a 103 that you wanted to use, I'd say connect the DVR directly to the HDTV with just one HDMI cable. But obviously if the 103 is going to be used as we've discussed, this single-cable option doesn't exist.

Of course this does mean you will need to use the INPUT button on your HDTV when you want to watch some other source (e.g. BluRay) coming through your AVR. But there's no such thing as a free lunch here, when your Comcast DVR has this "losing native" firmware glitch.

In any case it's still a prudent suggestion to periodically verify that your Comcast DVR is still putting out "native", especially when the "i" button on the 103's remote will show you that easily and instantly.
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post #12446 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 12:06 PM
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That's a good suggestion - I have Comcast with a Motorola RNG200N - I can set it to 'native' but the next time it's turned on after having been turned off for a few hours it's back to the default of 1080p/60 (even though Comcast cannot actually broadcast 1080p) - so good to occasionally confirm it's still set to native...
That's a common problem with the Motorola boxes. To avoid it, you have to turn on TV first, AVR/Receiver second, Oppo next since you are running it through the Oppo, and the cable box last. Reverse the order on shutdown. That should keep you in native mode. If not, you can set it back to native.

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post #12447 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 12:39 PM
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If you think that's bad on a movie, try watching a TV series on BD with 4-5 episodes per disc and no resume function.


I watch a lot of TV. I use "movie" interchangeably to mean any DVD content.

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post #12448 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by iang153 View Post

That's a good suggestion - I have Comcast with a Motorola RNG200N - I can set it to 'native' but the next time it's turned on after having been turned off for a few hours it's back to the default of 1080p/60 (even though Comcast cannot actually broadcast 1080p) - so good to occasionally confirm it's still set to native...
That's a common problem with the Motorola boxes. To avoid it, you have to turn on TV first, AVR/Receiver second, Oppo next since you are running it through the Oppo, and the cable box last. Reverse the order on shutdown. That should keep you in native mode. If not, you can set it back to native.

S~

What I found with those Comcast/Motorola boxes was you'd be in good shape if you just left them ON all the time. Of course if you have a DVR, that's normal (so it can record programs when you are not there). But you can do it safely with the non-DVR units as well.

If left ON, I found it only forget the "native" setting if there was a power failure.
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post #12449 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 02:50 PM
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Frankly, I won't even be playing Blu-ray if all the discs don't have this feature.

That'll teach 'em.

-Bill

Nah. They think they've got it right the way it is (not) working now. Just ask any Studio, and they'll say, "When was the last time you went to a movie theater that had a Resume Play feature?"
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post #12450 of 17729 Old 10-16-2013, 02:55 PM
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What do people do with the BDs from Universal that put up their own Universal screensaver when the disc is paused? I haven't figured out how to go back to PLAY unless I eject and reload the disc, then skip forward to where I left off.

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