Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 439 - AVS Forum
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post #13141 of 17824 Old 11-17-2013, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Load time on the Oppo for discs is much faster than the Samsung. Loading Netflix is faster on Samsung, but I don't recall getting 1080p and Dolby Digital + on the Samsung. BD PQ seems identical to me on both, and DVD upsampling has more noticeable edge enhancement on Samsung.

The Samsung 6500 it outputs 1080p and full bitstream just fine, it's a real nice feature rich player for the price. It's just real, real slow on everything, BD loading is scary at times, using their smart hub and traversing the UI is equally as slow.

Thanks for the Netflix update.

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post #13142 of 17824 Old 11-17-2013, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Unfortunately John the tunein app on the Roku (maybe it's just the stick) is a bit limited. I think it can only receive stations that send a mp3 stream. If anything is sending aac, WMA, or real audio you're out of luck.

Most of my stations wouldn't play including all of the regular bbc stations like radio 1, 2 ... 5 live, etc.

I'm out of town, and thus can't test the TuneIn app in my old external Roku XD|S, but the TuneIn app in my Android phone plays the AAC stream from BBC1 just fine.

I'll update this when I get home.

-Phil

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post #13143 of 17824 Old 11-17-2013, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Philnick View Post

I'm out of town, and thus can't test the TuneIn app in my old external Roku XD|S, but the TuneIn app in my Android phone plays the AAC stream from BBC1 just fine.

I'll update this when I get home.

-Phil

I'm referring to the tune in app on the roku streaming stick not on other platforms.
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post #13144 of 17824 Old 11-17-2013, 06:17 PM
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Later this week, I'm getting a 600hz TV after having a 60hz. Currently, I have the 1080p24 Output set to Off. The Unofficial FAQ recommends On. Will that only send 24hz content in 24hz, or will it monkey with 60hz material as well? That is, is On really best, or would I be better off with Auto?

AKA Rob Helmerichs
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post #13145 of 17824 Old 11-17-2013, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Medieval Guy View Post

Later this week, I'm getting a 600hz TV after having a 60hz. Currently, I have the 1080p24 Output set to Off. The Unofficial FAQ recommends On. Will that only send 24hz content in 24hz, or will it monkey with 60hz material as well? That is, is On really best, or would I be better off with Auto?

60hz content is not modified to 24hz (exception: DVDs when you have DVD 24p on).

AUTO just asks the display if it can accept 24hz. If you know the display accepts 24hz you might as well set it to ON and eliminate the guessing.

-Bill
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post #13146 of 17824 Old 11-17-2013, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

60hz content is not modified to 24hz (exception: DVDs when you have DVD 24p on).

AUTO just asks the display if it can accept 24hz. If you know the display accepts 24hz you might as well set it to ON and eliminate the guessing.

-Bill
Thanks!

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post #13147 of 17824 Old 11-17-2013, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Unfortunately John the tunein app on the Roku (maybe it's just the stick) is a bit limited. I think it can only receive stations that send a mp3 stream. If anything is sending aac, WMA, or real audio you're out of luck.

Most of my stations wouldn't play including all of the regular bbc stations like radio 1, 2 ... 5 live, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philnick View Post

I'm out of town, and thus can't test the TuneIn app in my old external Roku XD|S, but the TuneIn app in my Android phone plays the AAC stream from BBC1 just fine.

I'll update this when I get home.

-Phil

Ok, my old Roku XD|S also does not play the AAC stream used by BBC Radio 1. However, there are a large number of BBC feeds that do play, including the BBC World Service in multiple languages. This is the first time I've realized that the Roku TuneIn app does not play AAC. This is apparently a function of the basic Roku architecture, since the TuneIn app on my Android phone does play AAC. Go figure.

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post #13148 of 17824 Old 11-18-2013, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medieval Guy View Post

Later this week, I'm getting a 600hz TV after having a 60hz. Currently, I have the 1080p24 Output set to Off. The Unofficial FAQ recommends On. Will that only send 24hz content in 24hz, or will it monkey with 60hz material as well? That is, is On really best, or would I be better off with Auto?

I always recommend folks leave it at AUTO in case they try a different TV in the future and forget about that setting.

1080p/24 AUTO sends 1080p/24 when the source content is 1080p/24 AND the Display says it can accept 1080p/24 during the handshake.

1080p/24 ON sends 1080p/24 when the source content is 1080p/24 REGARDLESS of whether the Display says it can accept 1080p/24 during the handshake. This is specifically for some notorious projectors that work just fine with 1080p/24 input but fail to publish that fact during the handshake.

With EITHER setting, you will STILL get 1080p/60 if the source content is not 1080p/24 to begin with.



Contrast with the DVD 24p Conversion setting which will try to render an SD-DVD as 1080p/24 even if it can't find a film rate cadence in that video. This allows it to carry through brief portions of an otherwise film-rate SD-DVD that don't convert cleanly to 1080p/24, but does mean the user has to be alert for "frame drop stutter" as a sign that this SD-DVD really is not appropriate for Conversion -- and thus the DVD 24p Conversion needs to be turned OFF, manually, by the user. That will be true if the SD-DVD content was never film-rate to begin with (e.g., an SD-DVD of a TV show), or if the method of creating the SD-DVD transfer makes it impossible to recapture the original /24 stream due to faults in the cadence or lack of a uniform cadence to begin with.



FOR NEWBIES: DVD 24p Conversion is used to eliminate "cadence judder" -- a minor ratcheting effect in otherwise smooth motion due to the conversion of film rate content (24 frames per second) to TV rates (30 or 60 frames per second). Since 24 doesn't divide evenly into 30 or 60 that means some film frames end up on screen slightly longer than others. You've been seeing "cadence judder" your entire life -- any time you watched a movie on a traditional TV set. The brain is very good at "not seeing" cadence judder. Most people can't spot it even if it is pointed out to them, unless a "judder free" playback is available for side by side comparison. A common place to look is in the smoothly scrolling end credits at the end of a movie.

Movies are recorded on SD-DVD already configured for playback on traditional TVs -- i.e., at 60fps. The process of doing this -- called Telecine -- involves repeating certain interlaced half-frames (called fields) in a regular cadence. It is this repeat which leaves them on screen slightly longer. DVD 24p Conversion is designed to remove the repeats leaving the original, 24fps film stream. This is ONLY worth doing if your TV will take 1080p/24 input and "do the right thing" with it -- meaning it displays it at a "refresh rate" which is a multiple of 24 frames per second -- 48, 72, and 96 fps being the most common.

Video rate content is originally recorded at 30 or 60 fps. If you try to force that to 24fps, that HAS TO FAIL, because there is no way to know which frames are "safe" to discard. The result of forcing video rate content to film rate is "frame drop stutter", a jarring unevenness in motion due to frames of the original video content having been discarded. Frame Drop Stutter is most easily seen in things like horizontal camera pans at modest speed, because the entire image is in uniform motion. Frame Drop Stutter is much MUCH worse than Cadence Judder. It is impossible to ignore.

So, if you have enabled DVD 24p Conversion and start seeing gross, jerky motion in pans, that's your cue you should go and turn OFF DVD 24p Conversion (which you can do "on the fly" -- while the movie is playing). It means that either this program was originally video rate content (and thus not something you want to Convert) or it was film rate content transferred to SD-DVD in a slipshod fashion that makes it impossible for DVD 24p Conversion to find and extract the original 24fps stream.

Again, Frame Drop Stutter is nasty. Cadence Judder is easily ignorable. You can leave DVD 24p Conversion OFF all the time and just live with Cadence Judder (if you can even see it), or you can use DVD 24p Conversion -- for movie discs only, and generally for newer disc transfers of newer movies (which are more likely to have a recoverable 24fps stream) -- and just keep in mind that if you start seeing Frame Drop Stutter, that's your cue to turn DVD 24p Conversion OFF while viewing this particular movie.

If you have the SD-DVD for "Shakespeare in Love", there's an easy way to familiarize yourself with the differences. That disc includes two instances of the animated Miramax logo, which pans upward.

One instance shows while loading the disc BEFORE you get to the Root Menu. It is on disc as video rate.

The other instance shows when you start the movie playing. It is on disc as film rate.

Try comparing both with DVD 24p Conversion ON and OFF. With it ON, that first one will look distinctly jerky. THAT'S Frame Drop Stutter.

With it OFF, *BOTH* of them will look smooth in motion! Yes, BOTH of them. Why?

As it turns out the first one is rendering smoothly in video rate, and the second is appearing to render smoothly even though it includes "cadence judder", because the brain is so good at ignoring "cadence judder".

If your TV accepts 1080p/24 input and "does the right thing" with it, you can turn on DVD 24p Conversion and that second instance of the logo will now go to your TV as clean, 1080p/24. I.e., without "cadence judder". Can you see the difference? Many people CAN'T. That may be because they are not sensitive to that minor ratcheting, or it may be that their TV is displaying that 1080p/24 input as 1080p60 -- i.e., it is NOT "doing the right thing" with it, but rather re-introducing the "cadence judder" you just removed!

In any event, that minor difference -- eliminating "cadence judder" -- is what DVD 24p Conversion is all about. If you can see the improvement in the motion of the 2nd logo with DVD 24p Conversion ON, then you will likely enjoy experimenting with it while playing SD-DVD movies. You can use this "Shakespeare in Love", SD-DVD as a test case, for example, as it has a "clean" Telecine cadence.

The thing you want to keep firmly in mind is that the jerky motion you saw with that FIRST Miramax logo -- i.e., prior to Root Menu, and with DVD 24p Conversion ON -- is Frame Drop Stutter. As you can see, it is pretty darned obvious. You definitely do not want that. And that will give you an idea of the type of thing to watch out for when playing any random SD-DVD movie disc with DVD 24p Conversion ON. If you see that significant hurky-jerky motion in pans (for example) that's your cue to go turn DVD 24p Conversion OFF and enjoy the movie "normally". Yes, still with "cadence judder", but still looking much better than if you try to convert a disc to 24fps that's simply not suitable for conversion.



I should add that this DVD 24p Conversion stuff *ONLY* applies to SD-DVD shiny discs, and only in NTSC markets (480i/60 content)

Conversion is not available for other 480i/60 content -- e.g., media files.

SD-DVD discs for Europe (PAL format) don't use Telecine, so no Conversion there either.

And movies on Blu-ray discs are already recorded on disc as 1080p/24 -- so no Conversion is needed.
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post #13149 of 17824 Old 11-18-2013, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Scottm89 View Post

I just purchased the BDP-103 to use in a two channel music only system, connected through HDMI to the NAD C390DD integrated amplifier and PSB Imagine T2 speakers. A couple of questions:

1) Can I use the iPhone/iPad app for the set up rather than using the television monitor? If so, that would reduce the number of steps to set this all up by one, which would be good.

2) Is there some post or list somewhere of the correct setup options for an audio only system like this?

Thanks for any help you can provide!

Scott

You will need a TV for setup. You will also need a TV for viewing menus on music discs -- e.g., DVD-A discs or "music only" Blu-ray discs. Some folks use small, HDMI-capable monitors for this; typically sold for use with computers or as monitors for digital movie cameras.
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post #13150 of 17824 Old 11-18-2013, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by darthkringle View Post

Guys- Sorry if I missed this but I have noticed something odd. I use a Cisco DVR (TWC) into my HDMI input on my Oppo and then HDMI2 (I prefer the image to HDMI1) out to my new ZT60. I am noticing what appears to be the "chroma bug" from the old DVD days on the 1080i channels. (Again, using the Oppo to output to 1080p). If I turn the DVR off and back on it resolves itself for a while. I AM using the lates Beta software so that could be an issue. Has anyone else seen this? FYI, this is not an issue with Blu Ray etc, just appears to be the 1080i channels through the Cisco box.


Thanks for any suggestions as it is quite annoying.

Email OPPO Tech Support with the model of your Cisco box and details of what you are seeing and how you make it happen. They may have history with that Cisco box.
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post #13151 of 17824 Old 11-18-2013, 05:02 AM
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Minor issue: I am using the MediaControl App on an ipad. Do any of you get it to show the song progress (time; bar) at the top? Ever since installing it it hasn't shown for me; it just shows me which song is playing... it would also be cool if eventually the app could index for song title, artist, genre etc., but I am sure Oppo have had a number of requests for this already. Thanks...
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post #13152 of 17824 Old 11-18-2013, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Make sure you are using the Beta Firmware (https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/BDP103-firmware-60-0808B.aspx) as it is required to properly manipulate the player with the MediaControlHD.
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post #13153 of 17824 Old 11-18-2013, 02:14 PM
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I need help. My BD player Samsung (6500?, dont know off the top of my head) is super slow and sometimes doesnt read BD discs or skips, even when there is no physical sign of scratches. I am losing my sanity. I know the Oppo 103 is a better player all around but is the loading time that significant and how well will it read discs over time? Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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post #13154 of 17824 Old 11-18-2013, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Amadayo View Post

I need help. My BD player Samsung (6500?, dont know off the top of my head) is super slow and sometimes doesnt read BD discs or skips, even when there is no physical sign of scratches. I am losing my sanity. I know the Oppo 103 is a better player all around but is the loading time that significant and how well will it read discs over time? Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks

It could be the laser head on your current player needs to be cleaned. Maybe a bit of fluff in the way.

I'd blow compressed air through the disc slot, maybe open it up and have a look.

-Bill
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post #13155 of 17824 Old 11-18-2013, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Philnick View Post


Ok, my old Roku XD|S also does not play the AAC stream used by BBC Radio 1. However, there are a large number of BBC feeds that do play, including the BBC World Service in multiple languages. This is the first time I've realized that the Roku TuneIn app does not play AAC. This is apparently a function of the basic Roku architecture, since the TuneIn app on my Android phone does play AAC. Go figure.

Thanks guys - The Tunein App works great on my iPad as well. Too bad the stick has this limitation. The simple interface made it easy for the entire family to use. Oh well
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post #13156 of 17824 Old 11-18-2013, 05:15 PM
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My apology for being late in the game. I just got my 103D. What is the consensus on the custom video setting, if any, especially for the VRS settings.

Thank you.

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post #13157 of 17824 Old 11-18-2013, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View PostMy apology for being late in the game. I just got my 103D. What is the consensus on the custom video setting, if any, especially for the VRS settings.

Thank you.

How do you like it?

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post #13158 of 17824 Old 11-18-2013, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

My apology for being late in the game. I just got my 103D. What is the consensus on the custom video setting, if any, especially for the VRS settings.

Thank you.

That would be answered best on the 103D thread.

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post #13159 of 17824 Old 11-18-2013, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

How do you like it?

So far, just by combining two of my favourite boxes together is already amazing. I just have no clue on the VRS settings.

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post #13160 of 17824 Old 11-18-2013, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

You will need a TV for setup. You will also need a TV for viewing menus on music discs -- e.g., DVD-A discs or "music only" Blu-ray discs. Some folks use small, HDMI-capable monitors for this; typically sold for use with computers or as monitors for digital movie cameras.
--Bob

I don't have the Oppo (yet) but I have "music only" blu-ray disc (http://www.2l.no/pages/album/090.html) where you don't need a TV to select the 2.0, 5.1 or bit rate sample to listen. You select that pressing the buttons red, green, blue or yellow. I guess can be done the same with the Oppo, right?
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post #13161 of 17824 Old 11-18-2013, 08:01 PM
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^ Correct.
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post #13162 of 17824 Old 11-19-2013, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post

I have had several BD players including Samsung, LG and Panasonic but the Oppo seems to be the slowest at coming out of "Pause". Anyone know why the Oppo 103 takes a few seconds to "Play" after being paused for a few minutes? All my other BD players immediately play when coming out of pause.

I noticed something strange the other night when viewing the new Man of Steel 3D movie on the Oppo 103. Whenever I would unpause this 3D movie, it would go right back to play immediately which is different than how it reacts with 2D movies. I have the 103 set to "Source Direct" and I think that might be one of the reasons that it has a delay when coming out of pause. The video must somehow be presented differently on 3D because there is no delay when coming out of pause?

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post #13163 of 17824 Old 11-19-2013, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Make sure you are using the Beta Firmware (https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/BDP103-firmware-60-0808B.aspx) as it is required to properly manipulate the player with the MediaControlHD.

Yup, that did it, thanks...
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post #13164 of 17824 Old 11-19-2013, 06:34 AM
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I have very quirky technical question in regards to the Oppo 103 player.

This is my current issue:

I have a philips TV.
It is connected to a yamaha adventage receiever using HDMI.

No matter the source, lipsync is not perfect. Thus, the communication over HDMI between my philips TV and my yamaha reciever is not functioning properlly when it comes to setting the lipsync.


My thinking is this. Could I buy and oppo 103, configure it for dual HDMI output, connect one HDMI output to my philips tv and the other to my Yamaha amp. Given that the Oppo player is communicating correctly with my Philips TV, the audio sync would now be perfect, right?

In addition, could I then also connect my digital tv box into the HDMI input of the Oppo player and have perfect lipsync for this source as well?


Why dont I just change reciever into something that communicates correctly with my tv over HDMI? Well, I like the sound of the yamaha and its got airplay, which I love. If the Oppo could solve all my problems, it would be a great investment.


/Christian
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post #13165 of 17824 Old 11-19-2013, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzichrille View Post

I have very quirky technical question in regards to the Oppo 103 player.

This is my current issue:

I have a philips TV.
It is connected to a yamaha adventage receiever using HDMI.

No matter the source, lipsync is not perfect. Thus, the communication over HDMI between my philips TV and my yamaha reciever is not functioning properlly when it comes to setting the lipsync.


My thinking is this. Could I buy and oppo 103, configure it for dual HDMI output, connect one HDMI output to my philips tv and the other to my Yamaha amp. Given that the Oppo player is communicating correctly with my Philips TV, the audio sync would now be perfect, right?

In addition, could I then also connect my digital tv box into the HDMI input of the Oppo player and have perfect lipsync for this source as well?


Why dont I just change reciever into something that communicates correctly with my tv over HDMI? Well, I like the sound of the yamaha and its got airplay, which I love. If the Oppo could solve all my problems, it would be a great investment.


/Christian
You don't say if the audio is ahead of or behind the video nor if it is consistently off in the same direction for all sources. If the audio is consistently ahead of the video, many AVR's have an adjustable audio delay setting to compensate for this (check in the thread, or owner's manual, for your AVR for details on whether your AVR supports this or not and how to set it). Another way to correct it would be to disable video processing in the TV as that is often the cause if the video falling behind the audio (again, check the thread, or manual, for your TV for specifics). Either way, simply adding a BDP-103 to your system isn't likely to magically fix this.
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post #13166 of 17824 Old 11-19-2013, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bonzichrille View Post

I have very quirky technical question in regards to the Oppo 103 player.

This is my current issue:

I have a philips TV.
It is connected to a yamaha adventage receiever using HDMI.

No matter the source, lipsync is not perfect. Thus, the communication over HDMI between my philips TV and my yamaha reciever is not functioning properlly when it comes to setting the lipsync.


My thinking is this. Could I buy and oppo 103, configure it for dual HDMI output, connect one HDMI output to my philips tv and the other to my Yamaha amp. Given that the Oppo player is communicating correctly with my Philips TV, the audio sync would now be perfect, right?

In addition, could I then also connect my digital tv box into the HDMI input of the Oppo player and have perfect lipsync for this source as well?


Why dont I just change reciever into something that communicates correctly with my tv over HDMI? Well, I like the sound of the yamaha and its got airplay, which I love. If the Oppo could solve all my problems, it would be a great investment.


/Christian

Are you certain that your TV supports the lip-sync option? Simply having a TV with HDMI 1.3 or later does not guarantee the TV uses or supports the lip-sync feature. From what I have read, I don't believe there are many TVs that do. Certainly using HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 in either dual HDMI, or Split A/V as you suggest above would not improve the situation. It would still be the job of the A/V receiver to apply the audio delay that the TV provides (assuming the TV provides lip-sync audio delay information over HDMI). With my Sony TV and Pioneer receiver, I had to manually set the audio delay on the Pioneer, which is what I suspect you'll need to do with your Yamaha.
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post #13167 of 17824 Old 11-19-2013, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

Are you certain that your TV supports the lip-sync option? Simply having a TV with HDMI 1.3 or later does not guarantee the TV uses or supports the lip-sync feature. From what I have read, I don't believe there are many TVs that do. Certainly using HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 in either dual HDMI, or Split A/V as you suggest above would not improve the situation. It would still be the job of the A/V receiver to apply the audio delay that the TV provides (assuming the TV provides lip-sync audio delay information over HDMI). With my Sony TV and Pioneer receiver, I had to manually set the audio delay on the Pioneer, which is what I suspect you'll need to do with your Yamaha.

Every TV that has HDMI 1.2 and up (I think, maybe it was introduced already in 1.1) supports an auto-lipsync feature. This is a so called "flag" within the HDMI signal that gets communitcated back to the HDMI source and then the audio is delayed accordingly.

Some tvs have different processing times depending on resoultion input so the delay can vary quite abit depending on input signal.


With a functioning setup, audio should be automatically adjusted and always in sync, given that the source material is correctly authored.

Despite this, you often half to manually set these things up but I my mind you should not have to. This should just work. In addition, once you have to manually set it up, the "adaptivess" of auto-lipsync is lost. I often see the lipsync sort of drifting when watching tv. The sync could be good, and then a change of channel and its suddenly sjlightly off. With my "functioning" denon reciever this is never the case, lipsync is always perfect.


Iam hoping to regain this by buying the Oppo and still being able to keep the Yamaha.
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post #13168 of 17824 Old 11-19-2013, 09:36 AM
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Please see Bob Pariseau's explanation: How the hell does HDMI's "Auto Lip Sync" work?

By the way Bob, why did you think that was a 60ms bug in the player? I've had to set my AVR for 85ms delay on the BDP-103's input, based on testing with the Spears & Munsil Version 2 disc. I have assumed this is an 85ms video delay in my TV (despite being set up for minimal processing with game/text mode), rather than a bug with the Oppo. I experienced a similar delay when using my previous Blu-ray player, but never measured it.
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post #13169 of 17824 Old 11-19-2013, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

By the way Bob, why did you think that was a 60ms bug in the player? I've had to set my AVR for 85ms delay on the BDP-103's input, based on testing with the Spears & Munsil Version 2 disc. I have assumed this is an 85ms video delay in my TV (despite being set up for minimal processing with game/text mode), rather than a bug with the Oppo. ....

I read Bob's answer as addressing Ghostman84's unspecified player. It wasn't in an Oppo thread so I don't know what brand it was.

In his post, Bob suggests that the display can have a fixed video delay it reports to the AVR. My projector will have different delays depending on how much Frame Creation I set. Now as Bob said, the display might still have one delay value hard coded into the HDMI stack, which would seriously impair any lip sync features.

From what I've read (and Bob reported in more detail), automatic lip sync is very far from a set and forget feature.
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post #13170 of 17824 Old 11-19-2013, 10:49 AM
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automatic lip sync is very far from a set and forget feature.

It is if you turn it off and forget about it. wink.gif
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