Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 466 - AVS Forum
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post #13951 of 18478 Old 12-29-2013, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post


The Syncheck product is the only one I know of that measures it accurately. It was the one that is prohibitively expensive and unfortunately I don't know of anything cheaper other than the iPhone app. The frame rate issue is something on the iPhone that I work around. I can estimate how much of the frame prior to the beep, and the frame of the beep is captured in the iPhone camera frame, and then I use that to form an educated guess of where the beep should start. I also will run the test several times and sometimes can get a sample where the frame transition on the Spears & Munsil test will occur almost simultaneously with the frame change on the iPhone camera, as a reference point for the start of sound.

The variance range you are describing is well within production tolerances for A/V material. ATSC gives a tolerance range of 60ms for television, and I believe SMPTE gives a tolerance range of 44ms for the production of motion picture films. I don't know how you are determining these variances so precisely without using any measuring equipment. 5ms is 5 thousandths of a second. That is well under my ability to detect without equipment, and even with the iPhone app I'm probably not that accurate. I'm glad to be within 10ms accuracy, and I can't do that without equipment either. I'd estimate that I can start perceiving an A/V synchronization error at about 20ms early and about 60ms late. The point is that A/V sync is not going to be perfect for a number of reasons, however human perception has a tolerance for it. If you are perceiving an A/V sync error, then the error is probably considerably more than 10ms. What does happen though, is that at a certain point the A/V sync becomes noticeable. For example, 40ms error might not be noticeable, while a 45ms error might be extremely noticeable.

Try this and see if it helps. Set the audio delay on the BDP-103 to +50ms (that's 50ms delay). Walk away, and don't watch anything right after setting it. If you are desperately looking for evidence of synchronization error, you will be second guessing yourself while you are watching it. Come back later and play some stuff. If you still notice synchronization error on some material, then try setting the delay to +90ms, and again walk away for a while, and then come back later. Hopefully one of those two settings will push everything back into your tolerance range where you won't notice anything being out of sync.
This would only be true if your TV takes no time to process the video image. I'm finding that TVs seem to delay digital video by a frame. The TV internally delays the audio when the audio goes through it as well, but with the audio from the BDP-103 going directly to the AVR, the AVR has no information on which to delay the audio, unless your TV does actually use the A/V sync feature of HDMI, which very few TVs do. The AVR would need to support it as well.

 

Thanks again for being so responsive. I'm not sure about the root issue here but 10ms is extremely perceptible (to myself and other viewers... with a range of 30ms I see mouth movements that don't start until after the first few words are spoken or entire sentences that you don't hear until after the mouth has stopped moving). I have no way of measuring the real deltas at the moment but the feedback from you and other parties makes me suspect that the 10ms steps in my OPPO are larger than 10ms... though that would be a non-trivial bug that I'd think others would have reported by now.

 

I will note that it's less obvious if I skew to larger positive values, so my constant need to adjust may have been in part that I was tuning it to the minimum viable offset. However, the first film I tested after getting your response required +70ms, the one after that didn't get close to matching up until I set it back to +30ms... So far I've been unable to watch two films in a row without spending the first 10 minutes trying to find long speaking sections and fiddle with the offsets.

 

I did get a response from the OPPO support staff but it was basically dismissive of my complaint (telling me I must have post processing turned on). At this point I'm frustrated enough to give up and switch back to the BDP-83, maybe keeping this player around for 3d films only.

 

I don't even think any sync checking devices would help given that they're against registration content (if I understand correctly). Since I have variance across content, I can't imagine it would do me any good.

 

Separately, I still think no offset should be necessary on the OPPO side. Regardless of the delay processing the image on the display, I would expect it to be consistent with high def content from my Roku (through AV) vs content from the OPPO also through AV. It's clearly not the case, no other media source going through my AV suffers from this.

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post #13952 of 18478 Old 12-29-2013, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mconley1015 View Post

Can I have some opinions on a move to sell the BDP 95 I purchased from Oppo and use the Money toward a BDP 103. Here is my thinking on this:
I barely ever use the superior analog outputs of the 95 because the HDMI output in my room setup is better. I have Integra DHC 40.2 pre-pro and Adcom 7 ch amp. My room is not treated so the analog from the BDP 95 sounds only slightly better than my old Sony DVD player. As soon as I switch to HDMI with THX Ultra2 engaged there is no comparison. The sound of music. I have many SACD, DVD Audio, and now BD Music and concerts discs. The BDP 103 is a newer model still strongly supported by Oppo while the 95 will soon drop off the radar and support / updates will waiver, as it already is, and at some point Oppo will drop the product upgrades as they have with all their others. At least at this point I will have a couple of years left in the life cycle of the product in exchange for a product heading into the sunset and unfortunately something that was basically overkill for me. i am thinking sell now for about $500 plus shipping and grab the 103. I think it will be possible to do that and worth the effort. Am I nuts? What impact is Cinevia having? is that something i should consider. I'd like some personal input before i do this. Thank you! BTW the OPPO products are the only ones I have considered for several years so I am a happy customer!

You've gotten the feedback on Cinavia, so aside from that particular issue, I think you have a good plan there.
Since you don't take advantage of the better analog audio in the -95, you are essentially getting an upgrade to the -103 for free as long as your sale covers the purchase price.
Even if you still have to pay some out of pocket, I think it's a good choice. Remember also there is the new -103(D) model too.
If Darbee is something that you may like, it's a nice choice over the standard -103 and will probably hold a great resale value too. wink.gif

~Dave

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post #13953 of 18478 Old 12-29-2013, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Duck05 View Post

On my 103 seems it is very sensitive to rental (Netflix) Bluray discs and it there is even a slight smudge or scratch it hangs up during play. The 83 had similar challenges. Often a thorough cleaning of the disc clears up the issue but sometimes not. Are the pickups that sensitive?

Just loaded the new firmware update this morning on the 103 but did not read the notes as yet what it fixed......

I would have to agree with other comments about rental discs playing fine in my player as well.
I get them from both Netflix and Redbox and don't recall having a problem with any disc I've tried.
I do check them first and if there are smudges or prints on them I make sure to clean them off before playing.
Quite honestly though, 95% of the time the discs look like new.
Maybe you have just had some bad luck in getting some damaged discs.

Another theory is that you could possibly have another problem like a slightly faulty hdmi cable or faulty cable connection.

~Dave

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post #13954 of 18478 Old 12-29-2013, 04:34 PM
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It may be "bad luck" but your HDMI comment is interesting. First I have heard that a suspect HDMI cable would be tied to the player hanging. The cable runs into the Denon and passed through unmolested so there are two cables in that path.

I just recently swapped the 103 (which was in the bedroom to start) with the 83 in the family room rack. The 83 displayed occasional hangs with Netflix rental BluRay discs (NEVER a rented DVD) but we only watch the rentals in the family room. "Store bought" Blurays have never displayed any problems and the rentals often times are pretty scarred up so the assumption has been it always was/is the media.


I was optimistic that the 103 may be more "forgiving" but 2 out of 3 Dexter season 8 Netflix rentals hung during playback. Cleaning and re-watching got past the "bad spots"; that has been the experience on the 83 for quite a while. Roughly 15-20% of the time but that is a guess....
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post #13955 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 02:07 AM
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That's the best thing about redbox BDs. For the most part they are usually almost like new and not abused as much as their counterpart regular dvds.

By the way what method does everyone use to clean their dvds/ blu rays?
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post #13956 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 06:51 AM
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For minor smudges I wet a Kleenex and apply a little tap water to the disc, then gently dry radially with a soft towel. For gooey stuff, I use a spray meant for cleaning LCD screens and a microfiber cloth.

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post #13957 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chere View Post

That's the best thing about redbox BDs. For the most part they are usually almost like new and not abused as much as their counterpart regular dvds.

By the way what method does everyone use to clean their dvds/ blu rays?

I use distilled water and a VERY soft cloth, going from the inside of the disc to the outside.

With dual subs, stack'em in the corner and put on a jockstrap. Don't want EVERYTHING in the room jingling!
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post #13958 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post

I use distilled water and a VERY soft cloth, going from the inside of the disc to the outside.
I will add "lint-free" to the cloth. Aside from that...

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post #13959 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 07:32 AM
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Yes. Sorry that I left that out. We used lint-free tissue paper in the Navy and at intel when we cleaned optics. You don't want any streaks of residue or particles left over from the cleaning process.

With dual subs, stack'em in the corner and put on a jockstrap. Don't want EVERYTHING in the room jingling!
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post #13960 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billymerritt View Post

I noticed since upgrade to latest firmware when I power up the 103 I will not get audio signal display on my Onkyo TX-SR906. When I start a disc with audio then it will be in display of the receiver. It use to display on receiver before the update if I'm not mistaken. However with my 93 it displays audio when the 93 powers on. Only difference in the two is 103 audio is out to HDMI and 93 Optical out. Anyone else notice this or is this normal? the Onkyo TX-SR906 is only 1.3 HDMI so maybe that's the reason, and on a side note, sometimes when power on 103 will not show the home menu and just hangs and have to power off and on to get it to work, don't happen often but enough to be annoying at times. Any ideas you long time Oppo users?

Ever since the last firmware update, my 103 will freeze before the splash screen when powered on. Power cycle, the it works fine.
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post #13961 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post

Yes. Sorry that I left that out. We used lint-free tissue paper in the Navy and at intel when we cleaned optics. You don't want any streaks of residue or particles left over from the cleaning process.
Interesting that you bring up the lenses. I use the same cloths for my BDs/DVDs, photographic lenses, and even for the last steps in cleaning up my guitars. Good, soft, clean, lint-free cloth is great to have around in general.

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post #13962 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 4mula1 View Post


Ever since the last firmware update, my 103 will freeze before the splash screen when powered on. Power cycle, the it works fine.

Sounds like someone needs to do a factory reset maybe?


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post #13963 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by hometheatergeek View Post

Sounds like someone needs to do a factory reset maybe?

I was told that the new firmware does that on its own. But I guess it won't hurt to do a manual reset as well.
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post #13964 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 4mula1 View Post


I was told that the new firmware does that on its own. But I guess it won't hurt to do a manual reset as well.

If you have a USB stick you could always save the settings first then apply the reset.


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post #13965 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzichrille View Post

Yes, I just sent a message to Oppo USA. I hope they take the feedback and make a change to the firmware. The majority of my media library are blu-ray movies that have been ripped to 720p. Saves space and I have learned how to encode things. I really thought that the Oppo would be my perfect mediaplayer but this lack of 24p switching has really but a dent in my perfect setup.

I got a response from them. Sounds like they really want to do it, but MediaTek is the holdup:
Quote:
Since there is no 720p/24Hz specifications in the HD standard, and the player has the potential of outputting a native signal, we did not want to have a scenario where Source Direct was set and the player was outputting 720p/24Hz.

Going from 720p/24Hz to 1080p/24Hz is something that we would like to pursue, but MediaTek has been very adamant that they need to do a frame rate conversion when scaling. We will continue to pressure them to support scaling without a frame rate conversion in the cases where the output will be 1080p.


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post #13966 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 12:43 PM
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Hi, I just purchased an Oppo BDP-103 and really like it, it sounds and looks great.

However, I've been trying to get it to play music from my Logitech Media Server (LMS) setup, without success.

The 103 sees the LMS ok, but when I select a file within a directory to play, the play indicator briefly points at the file, then quickly skips through the whole list without playing anything.

Thinking it was a problem with LMS, I downloaded Jriver Media Center (JMC), but had the same exact result.

Oppo technical support suggested a simple DLNA server oShare, and which does work. By the way, regular windows file sharing (SMB) works as well, but lacks good search, tagging, ect. feature.

Has anyone else encountered this with LMS or JMC ? By the way, I'm running the latest firmware from Oppo (beta), and tried the last regular firmware, so that isn't the problem.

Thanks in advance,
BB

edit: Sorry, meant to post this to the BDP-103 user's thread.
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post #13967 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 02:05 PM
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I own a BDP-105; however, for my setup I found that using the Digial output into a stand alone DAC was a better solution. I know the whole point of the 105 was for the DAC and I am not utilizing it. So with that said, if I move to a 103, there should be ZERO difference in audio quality assuming I am not using the analog sections correct? Or is the better Power Supply in the 105 etc a factor? Thanks!!
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post #13968 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by darthkringle View Post

I own a BDP-105; however, for my setup I found that using the Digial output into a stand alone DAC was a better solution. I know the whole point of the 105 was for the DAC and I am not utilizing it. So with that said, if I move to a 103, there should be ZERO difference in audio quality assuming I am not using the analog sections correct? Or is the better Power Supply in the 105 etc a factor? Thanks!!

Correct, no difference. Some may say the power supply matters for digital data but they are in the minority here.

-Bill


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post #13969 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irissky View Post

Hi, I just purchased an Oppo BDP-103 and really like it, it sounds and looks great.

However, I've been trying to get it to play music from my Logitech Media Server (LMS) setup, without success.

The 103 sees the LMS ok, but when I select a file within a directory to play, the play indicator briefly points at the file, then quickly skips through the whole list without playing anything.

Thinking it was a problem with LMS, I downloaded Jriver Media Center (JMC), but had the same exact result.

Oppo technical support suggested a simple DLNA server oShare, and which does work. By the way, regular windows file sharing (SMB) works as well, but lacks good search, tagging, ect. feature.

Has anyone else encountered this with LMS or JMC ? By the way, I'm running the latest firmware from Oppo (beta), and tried the last regular firmware, so that isn't the problem.

Thanks in advance,
BB

edit: Sorry, meant to post this to the BDP-103 user's thread.
What file types are you streaming?

Do you have transcoding turned off in JRMC?

I routinely stream ALAC, FLAC, and MKV files from JRMC to the BDP-103 with no issues. I did have to turn off transcoding in JRMC's DLNA server to get everything to work properly.

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post #13970 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Correct, no difference. Some may say the power supply matters for digital data but they are in the minority here.

-Bill

Thanks much!
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post #13971 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 02:37 PM
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Thanks for the reply. I'm new to JRMC, after using Logic Media Server for a good while.

Right now I'm trying to get audio working. I've tried Flac, MP3, and WAV and the player just skips over them.

Where is the transcoding setting you refer to ?

Thx
Quote:
Originally Posted by LairdWilliams View Post

What file types are you streaming?

Do you have transcoding turned off in JRMC?

I routinely stream ALAC, FLAC, and MKV files from JRMC to the BDP-103 with no issues. I did have to turn off transcoding in JRMC's DLNA server to get everything to work properly.
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post #13972 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 03:27 PM
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I use LMS with Flacs and MP3s here without problem. Make sure you drill down through the Music folder.

Tom


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post #13973 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irissky View Post

Thanks for the reply. I'm new to JRMC, after using Logic Media Server for a good while.

Right now I'm trying to get audio working. I've tried Flac, MP3, and WAV and the player just skips over them.

Where is the transcoding setting you refer to ?

Thx
1) Go to: Tools > Options > Media Network > Add or configure DLNA Servers

You should have a dialog box labeled "DLNA Server" showing, with 2 panes.

In the Lower pane, set the following:
2) Audio Format: PCM 24-Bit
3) Audio:Advanced > Stereo Downmix: OFF (unchecked)
4) Audio:Advanced > Volume Leveling: OFF (unchecked)
5) Audio:Advanced > Sample Rate: Same as Source
6) Audio Mode: Original
7) Video Mode: Original

8) Press the OK button at the bottom of the screen

That puts the DLNA server into a state where it does not try to do anything to the audio or video files it server up.

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post #13974 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 05:37 PM
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Thanks for the help, I'll try these out tonight and report back.

Regards,
BB
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post #13975 of 18478 Old 12-30-2013, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by holisticmonkey View Post

I'm not sure about the root issue here but 10ms is extremely perceptible (to myself and other viewers... with a range of 30ms I see mouth movements that don't start until after the first few words are spoken or entire sentences that you don't hear until after the mouth has stopped moving). I have no way of measuring the real deltas at the moment but the feedback from you and other parties makes me suspect that the 10ms steps in my OPPO are larger than 10ms... though that would be a non-trivial bug that I'd think others would have reported by now.

I will note that it's less obvious if I skew to larger positive values, so my constant need to adjust may have been in part that I was tuning it to the minimum viable offset. However, the first film I tested after getting your response required +70ms, the one after that didn't get close to matching up until I set it back to +30ms... So far I've been unable to watch two films in a row without spending the first 10 minutes trying to find long speaking sections and fiddle with the offsets.

I've done a bit more research on this & done some more testing on my own setup. I've found that there is considerable variance between DD TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, and considering whether bitstream or LPCM is selected, and if 24p or 60hz is used. The audio advance ahead of video ranges from 20ms to 120ms for my system. I'm not sure how much of that to attribute to the BDP-103, and how much to attribute to the AVR I am using.

I found the following papers that illustrate and describe the undetectability plateau and detectability threshold of A/V sync:

Audio/Video Synchronization Standards and Solutions
A Status Report


RECOMMENDATION ITU-R BT.1359
RELATIVE TIMING OF SOUND AND VISION FOR BROADCASTING


Based on the information in those documents, I ultimately reset the audio delay for my BDP-103 to 110ms in hopes of containing the entire range of variation within the undetectability plateau, or at least within the detectability threshold.
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Originally Posted by holisticmonkey View Post

I don't even think any sync checking devices would help given that they're against registration content (if I understand correctly). Since I have variance across content, I can't imagine it would do me any good.

I'm not certain what you mean by "against registration content".
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post #13976 of 18478 Old 12-31-2013, 09:30 AM
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I will second this endorsement. The internal/external region free mod kit from JVB Digital definitely seems the one to have. No problems with updates or operation for me. Although like some others, you really do need to turn off Auto Resume to switch regions properly.

 

 

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Just installed the latest update and it performed as advertised. When I powered up my 103 for the first time after the latest update was installed, I was prompted to either reset the 103 to factory defaults, which was highly recommended, or keep the present settings. I decided to believe the Big Computer in the Sky and pressed the Reset to Factory Defaults button. Since then everything has gone well.

On another issue discussed here recently, I installed a JVB Digital all regions modification chip in my 103 in April and it has performed flawlessly ever since. Highly recommended!

 

hi guys, I just got my oppo 103, and just signed up to the forums.

 

I've already purchased the mod kit from avsdigital on eBay. it's the one that u have to manually change regions.

then I saw your recommend on this one from JVB.  Would u recommend the jvb version over the one I've purchased?

I haven't installed mine yet. just wondering if it's worth getting the jvb one instead?

 

also, been using netflix on it through WiFi, and no issues other than an audio glitch every now and then.  it sounds like a really loud spike in the audio.  not every movie either, just every so often. any idea what that is?

 

thanks

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post #13977 of 18478 Old 12-31-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by HPQ View Post

When I turn on the NAD, I see the below.

Source 1
PCM Stereo

I then went to Oppo and changed the setting to Auto and then played a movie and on the NAD, it shows

Source 1
Dolby Digital

I then went back to Oppo and changed the setting to Bitstream and then played the same movie and on the NAD, it shows

Source 1
Dolby Digital

No change on the NAD..

So, I guess I am good? yes/no??

I would say YES. smile.gif Now you can leave the Bitstream or better Auto setting in the Oppo or make your own listening test, if you can hear differences for the different settings and if yes, then choose the one you like best. However, there may be no audible differences. But I would leave the setting on Auto. I think the Oppo does this right.
And: Have fun!

The HDMI Audio AUTO setting is a bit different from the BITSTREAM setting.

First of all, if the track you are playing is already LPCM (i.e., not a Bitstream), then the output will be LPCM. The OPPO does not re-encode LPCM tracks into Bitstream.

If the track you are playing is Bitstream, then the question arises whether the destination device is CAPABLE of processing that Bitstream. The issue is that some devices (e.g., most TV sets -- for their built-in speakers) will accept the traditional, lossy Bitstreams (DD and DTS) but not the newer lossless Bitstreams (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA).

If you are playing a Bitstream track with AUTO or Bitstream output selected, the player will handshake with the destination device to see if it can accept that Bitstream AS IS. If the answer is NO then:

1) AUTO switches the output to LPCM -- i.e., it decodes the lossless Bitstream into high bit-rate LPCM for output -- up to the number of LPCM channels the destination can receive.

2) Bitstream switches to using the "compatibility" track instead. Blu-ray discs always have a "compatibility" track for just such purposes. For a Dolby TrueHD primary track, the compatibility track will be traditional DD (up to 5.1 channels). For a DTS-HD MA primary track, the compatibility track will be traditional DTS (up to 5.1 channels). HDMI devices should all be able to a accept the compatibility track.

The choice to use LPCM may give you superior results since you get the high bit-rate decode (instead of a decode of the lower bit-rate "compatibility" Bitstream). And for destination devices that can accept multi-channel LPCM at high bit-rate that would be a good solution. HOWEVER, some devices -- again, typical TVs come to mind -- will accept DD 5.1, or even DTS 5.1 traditional Bitstreams but will only accept stereo (2.0) LPCM. What the TV does with that 5.1 input when played on its built-in stereo speakers may be different than a simple down-mix to stereo. It may have some sort of psycho-acoustic surround sound processing for example. And if you enjoy that sort of thing, you might want to be able to retain the 5.1 input.

So for such a destination device you may prefer to retain the 5.1 sound track, even if that means passing the lossy "compatibility" Bitstream instead of the original, lossless Bitstream primary track.

SO:

1) Selecting LPCM output will get you LPCM and only LPCM. If your destination device can only accept stereo LPCM you will get a stereo down-mix. The decode to LPCM is ALWAYS from the full quality primary track -- then down-mixed to a fewer number of channels for output if your destination can't accept the original number of channels. (All this down-mixing is automatic by the way -- part of the HDMI handshake -- not affected by the "Down-mix" setting in the Speaker Configuration settings in the OPPO which only applies to the ANALOG audio outputs.)

2) Selecting BITSTREAM will get you Bitstream if the primary track is a Bitstream (and LPCM if the primary track is LPCM). But if the primary is a lossless Bitstream and your destination device can't accept that, then you will get the "compatibility" Bitstream instead.

3) Selecting AUTO will get you Bitstream if the primary track is a Bitstream AND the destination can accept that AS IS -- at its original quality. If the destination can't accept the Bitstream AS IS -- or if the primary track is LPCM -- you will get LPCM up to the number of channels the destination allows. This may give you HIGHER quality audio because the LPCM is decoded from the full, lossless, high bit-rate Bitstream, or it may give you LOWER quality audio if the destination forces the player to down-mix that LPCM to stereo. If you are playing a lossy Bitstream primary track, and the destination can accept that, then you get that DD or DTS Bitstream. This may let you get multi-channel into a destination device that can only accept stereo for LPCM data. You might wonder why on earth anyone would make a device that can accept multi-channel Bitstream but only stereo LPCM? Well, that was actually the norm in the period just before HDMI came into the picture, because that's exactly how Optical and Coax (S/PDIF) digital audio cabling works.

For MOST people selecting either LPCM or BITSTREAM output (at your personal preference) is the way to go. This would be for everyone, for example, using a modern AVR which can accept EITHER the full, lossless Bitstream formats (TrueHD and DTS-HD MA) OR multi-channel (up to 5.1 or 7.1) high bit-rate LPCM. If you have an AVR like that and select the AUTO option, it will still work, but it makes the HDMI handshake more complicated, meaning you might get a retry which slows down getting to the content you want to view.
--Bob
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post #13978 of 18478 Old 12-31-2013, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holisticmonkey View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post


Thanks again for being so responsive. I'm not sure about the root issue here but 10ms is extremely perceptible (to myself and other viewers... with a range of 30ms I see mouth movements that don't start until after the first few words are spoken or entire sentences that you don't hear until after the mouth has stopped moving). I have no way of measuring the real deltas at the moment but the feedback from you and other parties makes me suspect that the 10ms steps in my OPPO are larger than 10ms... though that would be a non-trivial bug that I'd think others would have reported by now.

I will note that it's less obvious if I skew to larger positive values, so my constant need to adjust may have been in part that I was tuning it to the minimum viable offset. However, the first film I tested after getting your response required +70ms, the one after that didn't get close to matching up until I set it back to +30ms... So far I've been unable to watch two films in a row without spending the first 10 minutes trying to find long speaking sections and fiddle with the offsets.

I did get a response from the OPPO support staff but it was basically dismissive of my complaint (telling me I must have post processing turned on). At this point I'm frustrated enough to give up and switch back to the BDP-83, maybe keeping this player around for 3d films only.

I don't even think any sync checking devices would help given that they're against registration content (if I understand correctly). Since I have variance across content, I can't imagine it would do me any good.

Separately, I still think no offset should be necessary on the OPPO side. Regardless of the delay processing the image on the display, I would expect it to be consistent with high def content from my Roku (through AV) vs content from the OPPO also through AV. It's clearly not the case, no other media source going through my AV suffers from this.

What you are seeing is not what you think you are seeing.

At 24 frames per second, one frame of film is just under 42ms. So it is IMPOSSIBLE for a 30ms A/V sync error to result in a situation where you can see the lips moving for SEVERAL WORD before the matching audio is heard. A 30ms error is less than one "frame time".

Forget about buying any fancy sync testing gear. What you need instead is a calibration disc that has a synch check track on it of known quality -- i.e., the audio and video REALLY ARE IN SYNC on that track to begin with. You can NOT reliably check for sync errors with real movies or TV programs, because inherent sync error is present in lots of commercial content (for a variety of reasons).

Two good calibration disc choices are: (1) Spears & Munsil Version 2, Blu-ray, available direct from OPPO Digital and elsewhere, and Disney's "WOW World of Wonder", Blu-ray, available from AMAZON.

I've checked the sync delay adjustment in the OPPO against that offered in my Anthem Statement D2v, and the step size in the OPPO appears to be accurate.



Now, once you are using a test of known quality (from one of these calibration discs) if you've found a bug where changing the A/V Sync setting in the OPPO is causing things to go wacky you'll have a reliable and repeatable test case (that calibration disc) which you can use to ferret out exactly what set of steps are causing this problem. Steps you can communicate to OPPO Tech Support.

The amount of sync error you are reporting -- several words or whole sentences of video before or after the corresponding audio -- is so great that if this were normal in the player this thread would be filled with howls of indignation. So again, I'm not saying it isn't happening. What I'm saying is that what you THINK is going on here -- normal sync adjustment errors -- is NOT what's going on. There is SOMETHING ELSE going on, and we just need to ferret that out.



Of course the first thing you should do is make sure you have the latest firmware in your 103, as various types of sync error present in the earliest firmware releases have since been fixed.

Go to Setup > Device Setup > Firmware Information and check the version number for the "Main" firmware. The current "Official" firmware release will end "1204". Even better, the current "Public Beta" firmware release -- available for download from the OPPO Digital support page for the 103, for installation via a USB stick -- will end "1225B".

IMPORTANT NOTE: If on the first power up after the firmware install the player offers a Recommended Reset be done, you SHOULD do that.
--Bob


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post #13979 of 18478 Old 12-31-2013, 11:53 AM
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I'd really appreciate advice and information about whether we should upgrade from our existing Oppo BDP-83 to either the Oppo BPD-103 or the Oppo BDP-105.

After trying to read a lot of the information on this thread, it's clear to me that I'm a far less sophisticated participant than most, so I'm hopeful that those of you who are far more knowledgeable about what's important and what's not can give me some guidance.

I don't want anyone to feel I've wasted their time by inviting analysis of features and improvements that we're not going to be able to use (at least not anytime soon), so I hope it will be helpful to let you know our circumstances: First, we don't have a 3D-capable projector and we have no immediate plans to get a new one, so -- at least for the foreseeable future -- we're not concerned about the obvious difference of being able to play 3D discs. Second, we connect our player to our receiver (and then our receiver to the projector) using only the HDMI connections, so differences between the players regarding their analog-out capabilities won't make a difference to us now, either. Of course, in a few years, it's possible we may want 3D badly enough to get a new projector, so having a player with that capability would be useful then. Nevertheless, unless someone can explain why we would get an objectively discernible benefit from using analog audio connections instead of HDMI, it's unlikely that -- even if we needed a new receiver tomorrow -- we'd get one with analog inputs for the purpose of taking advantage of a disk player's analog outputs.

So, the first real question is -- for us and the way we use the player -- are there good reason to move up from the BDP-83 we have now?

If so, then the next question is whether -- for us and the way we would be using the player -- are there good reasons to select the BDP-105 over the BDP-103? (I'm afraid I don't understand the technical differences between the 103 and 105 well enough to know whether the having the105 would make sense for us over the 103.)

Finally, in case any of it makes any difference in advice you can provide, here are some background specifics. We have a dedicated room for our "theater" (15'x17'x8'), which has no windows, is carpeted, its walls and ceiling are painted in matte chocolate brown (a compromise from the originally "desired" matte black), it has no ceiling light fixture, but it does have dimmable light sconces on 2 walls and "ambiance" led rope lighting inside crown molding around the ceiling. The relevant components we have are: An Epson 1080UB projector (not 3D, obviously); a 5'x9' screen built using Wilsonart's Designer White laminate (a concept obtained here on the AVS site); the BDP-83; an Onkyo RC-360 receiver; Klipsch speakers (RSX-5s [fronts & rears], RVX-42
, RX-42s [sides]); an NHT SW2P sub and a PolkAudio PSW202 sub (subs may get upgraded to a single SVS in the next year or so).

Thanks,
Paul

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post #13980 of 18478 Old 12-31-2013, 12:00 PM
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I'd really appreciate advice and information about whether we should upgrade from our existing Oppo BDP-83 to either the Oppo BPD-103 or the Oppo BDP-105.

Analog output in a player is mainly for people who have already spent mightily on other analog gear. Most who have HDMI in their receivers are using that.

For an HDMI setup you should not expect an upgrade in A/V quality. The possible exception would be the Darbee processing in the -103D. It's a feature not available previously and is generating a fan base. When used properly it is a subtle effect.

-Bill
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