Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 496 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14851 of 21050 Old 02-07-2014, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ascanio1 View Post

Wow... thanks! After one month I finally understand what may be happening. I appreciate your time and sharing your knowledge. This seems to be the a very good explanation...

So the other member's advice (use special cables) may really solve the problem!

Please do not misinterpret my question. This is a sincere question: can a maker fix this? If yes, how?

The HDMI cables with Redmere Technology have a chip in them so they are active and directional. They can handle a lot of bandwidth and don't slow the signal due to narrowing of that bandwidth due to cable capability. I use 2 15' (over 4m) long cables and don't have any problems.

Here is the website for a 6' Redmere HDMI cable from Monoprice. You can read the description of the cable yourself.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025501&p_id=9167&seq=1&format=2

Good luck!
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post #14852 of 21050 Old 02-07-2014, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tyler webb View Post

Is there a way to get the player to power up in a different input other than Blu Ray Mode. I would like it to power up the default input to my Direct TV feed to make it more family friendly. BTW i love it!!!! Blu Ray picture is far superior over the PS3!!!

I know this was answered already, but under "Playback Setup" there is an option called "Power On Input". Change it from he default of "Blu-ray" to "Last Input". So if you were on HDMI IN FRONT, for example, and you turn off the player, the player will return to this input the next time that you turn the player on.

So it is a 100% guarantee that you will be on the right input, but it at least reduces the number of times that you will be on Blu-ray when you wanted to be on one of the HDMI inputs.
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post #14853 of 21050 Old 02-07-2014, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ascanio1 View Post

Wow... thanks! After one month I finally understand what may be happening. I appreciate your time and sharing your knowledge. This seems to be the a very good explanation...

So the other member's advice (use special cables) may really solve the problem!
You said your equipment was "in the other room" and that you had your existing HDMI cable in the wall. That suggested to me that the distance from equipment to the TV (from the other room where the Oppo and AVR are presumably located) is more than 6ft, and possibly more than 20ft.

The "passive" Monoprice AWG24 and AWG22 cables are VERY THICK, and are inappropriate for use in your situation. But the Redmere cables are specifically very thin and yet simultaneously can be used over "huge" distances specifically because they are "active" (and directional).

I'm not guaranteeing that this will solve your problem, but any HDMI handshake involving THREE or more devices (remember the Oppo is actually talking to your TV through the AVR in your case) is always more or less "successful" depending on many other variables... including HDMI cable length of each cable leg (and you have TWO legs in your setup). In contrast, if you connect your source device (i.e. the Oppo) directly to the TV itself, through a single HDMI cable leg of "appropriate" length for the cable's rating, well that 2-device HDMI handshake from source to display is almost always "guaranteed" to work perfectly. Throw an intermediate "relay" device (like your AVR) into the HDMI connection path from source to display and this is no longer "guaranteed" to work the same way, although it very well might.

Your "problem solving" approach should include trying to play with these variables, especially when there is a 3-device HDMI relay situation in place, and also a significantly long HDMI cable run on one of the two HDMI legs from your other room where the equipment lives to the display device. And especially by reverting from a 2-leg HDMI connection to a 1-leg HDMI connection (e.g. just for experimenting, bring the Oppo into the same room as the TV and use a normal 6-ft./2M HDMI cable length to connect the two devices) which is again probably 100% guaranteed to work perfectly can you isolate the variables which are contributing to your unstable or non-functional situation when using the 2-leg connection approach running through your AVR.
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post #14854 of 21050 Old 02-07-2014, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ascanio1 View Post

However, my complaint is not about this. It is about Oppo's refusal to respect the one year warranty. They do not recognize using 2 HDMI cables as a fault.
On the other hand, I see using two HDMI cables as a diagnostic tool that allows you to simplify diagnosis of the source of your problem.
Based on the current exchange, I doubt that there are experienced OPPO owner in this thread who wouldn't expect your OPPO to work for them.

You asked, based on the outstanding description of HDCP/HDMI possible timing problems that are introduced when there is more than a destination device (TV) and a source device (player) in the signal path, if the problem could be fixed by the manufacturer? Since the possible combinations are immense, the only realistic solution has to come from those who forced the current HDCP standards onto all of us -- consumers and manufacturers alike.
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post #14855 of 21050 Old 02-07-2014, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

I know this was answered already, but under "Playback Setup" there is an option called "Power On Input". Change it from he default of "Blu-ray" to "Last Input". So if you were on HDMI IN FRONT, for example, and you turn off the player, the player will return to this input the next time that you turn the player on.

So it is a 100% guarantee that you will be on the right input, but it at least reduces the number of times that you will be on Blu-ray when you wanted to be on one of the HDMI inputs.
In passing, I mention that when this option recently first became available through a firmware upgrade I was very appreciative. In my setup probably 99.9% of the time I'm using my Oppo along with my HTPC WMC media center extender (Linksys DMA2100), running my TWC-provided cable content from the DMA2100 through the rear external input of the 103. So keeping the Oppo effectively "permanently switched to rear HDMI input on power-up" seemed like a good thing.

Well... HDMI handshakes, there you go again! The HDMI output of my 103 then goes into my Yamaha RX-V867 AVR, and then there's the second HDMI leg going from the AVR to my HDTV display.

Turns out there was a real "instability" in my setup depending on whether all of the multiple devices involved were fully powered up and operational/stable, as determined whether or not everything was "instantly working properly" or whether I had to screw around doing things like temporarily changing inputs (either on the Oppo or the AVR) or powering something off and then on again, etc. So this new "last input selected" option which I'd really been looking forward to... well, it actually seemed to be a "curse" for me.

So I went back to "BluRay player" as the settings option. By powering on the Oppo first (set to "BluRay player" as input), then AVR, then HDTV (Panny 65VT50) and letting them all "stabilize" in their own power-on sequences, and then power on the DMA2100 and wait for its own 30-second power on/stabilize period), and then switch inputs on the 103 from BluRay to rear external HDMI (and now have the multi-device HDMI handshake work perfectly through all power-on and stable devices)... well while this was a bit of an annoyance, at least it was guaranteed to work 100% perfectly.

So YMMV, as to whether or not choosing the "last input device" setting turns out to be a blessing or a curse. And again, it's the multi-device (i.2. 3 or more) HDMI handshake situation which is really the culprit here, as it may be performed prematurely and therefore may fail, depending on the setup.
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post #14856 of 21050 Old 02-07-2014, 01:00 PM
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Thank you!! I found that option eariler and it works perftly. I somehow overlooked it last night when I was hooking everything up.
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post #14857 of 21050 Old 02-07-2014, 01:05 PM
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I have an Oppo I bought a few months ago. I was trying to run my cable box in native mode into the Oppo and then run the Oppo HDMI 1 into my TV. Had all sorts of handshake problems. Through posting in the forums, I learned a lot about the almost "magical" nature of HDMI handshaking in multiple-device chains. If I ran the STB into my TV there were no problems. Put the Oppo in the chain, and all kinds of ridiculous handshake problems arose. Was it the Oppo's "fault?" I never once thought that. It was a system error or incompatibility. I did my research, and ended up fixing the problem by adding a third-party device to the chain. Search for my posts if you want to know more. There's plenty of "standards" that do not work 100% of the time in 100% of applications. Life goes on.

If a round peg doesn't fit in a square hole, it is not the square hole's fault. Nor is it the fault of the round peg. Find the appropriate sandpaper or chisel, and make it work.
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post #14858 of 21050 Old 02-07-2014, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul54 View Post

If a round peg doesn't fit in a square hole, it is not the square hole's fault. Nor is it the fault of the round peg. Find the appropriate sandpaper or chisel, and make it work.

Nice analogy. 100% of things don't work 100% of the time for 100% of the people for 100% of the options to select from.. There are lemons out there.

Me, I would use a BIG FREAKIN HAMMER to make a peg fit. biggrin.gif

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post #14859 of 21050 Old 02-07-2014, 02:33 PM
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Have a Modwright 105D coming on Monday. Hoping for plug and play. Anybody using this configuration?
Thanks,
Russ
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post #14860 of 21050 Old 02-07-2014, 02:56 PM
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Ascanio, I will mention one other thing that has been known to cause HDMI handshake problems in the past. It is less of a problem than it used to be but in your particular circumstance it may be worth experimenting with. This is the order in which devices connected by HDMI are turned on (and this includes being revived from Standby). Sometimes HDMI handshakes will work better when, let's say, the TV or projector is turned on first, then the receiver, then the Oppo (and maybe devices connected to the Oppo like a cable/satellit box or a Roku or Apple TV). Sometimes the other order will work or any combination of the order of turn-on. You have to experiment. It can be time-consuming and a pain in the a** but that is life with wonder HDMI mad.gifmad.gif.

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post #14861 of 21050 Old 02-07-2014, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul54 View Post

I have an Oppo I bought a few months ago. I was trying to run my cable box in native mode into the Oppo and then run the Oppo HDMI 1 into my TV. Had all sorts of handshake problems. Through posting in the forums, I learned a lot about the almost "magical" nature of HDMI handshaking in multiple-device chains. If I ran the STB into my TV there were no problems. Put the Oppo in the chain, and all kinds of ridiculous handshake problems arose. Was it the Oppo's "fault?" I never once thought that. It was a system error or incompatibility. I did my research, and ended up fixing the problem by adding a third-party device to the chain. Search for my posts if you want to know more. There's plenty of "standards" that do not work 100% of the time in 100% of applications. Life goes on.

If a round peg doesn't fit in a square hole, it is not the square hole's fault. Nor is it the fault of the round peg. Find the appropriate sandpaper or chisel, and make it work.
What's the third party device that fixed the hdmi handshake issue? Thank you
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post #14862 of 21050 Old 02-07-2014, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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You just need a HDMI switch that has EDID program capability. You will just mirror the EDID of one of the devices in the chain so that there is just a single check, rather than multiple checks what the downstream equipment is capable of.
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post #14863 of 21050 Old 02-07-2014, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceat View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul54 View Post

I have an Oppo I bought a few months ago. I was trying to run my cable box in native mode into the Oppo and then run the Oppo HDMI 1 into my TV. Had all sorts of handshake problems. Through posting in the forums, I learned a lot about the almost "magical" nature of HDMI handshaking in multiple-device chains. If I ran the STB into my TV there were no problems. Put the Oppo in the chain, and all kinds of ridiculous handshake problems arose. Was it the Oppo's "fault?" I never once thought that. It was a system error or incompatibility. I did my research, and ended up fixing the problem by adding a third-party device to the chain. Search for my posts if you want to know more. There's plenty of "standards" that do not work 100% of the time in 100% of applications. Life goes on.

If a round peg doesn't fit in a square hole, it is not the square hole's fault. Nor is it the fault of the round peg. Find the appropriate sandpaper or chisel, and make it work.
What's the third party device that fixed the hdmi handshake issue? Thank you

I did the search for you. See post 7579 in the BDP-105 Owners Thread. You will see in that particular post that it may not work for HDCP problems. A hundred bucks, unless it's changed...
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post #14864 of 21050 Old 02-07-2014, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ascanio1 View Post

Wow... thanks! After one month I finally understand what may be happening. I appreciate your time and sharing your knowledge. This seems to be the a very good explanation...

So the other member's advice (use special cables) may really solve the problem!

Please do not misinterpret my question. This is a sincere question: can a maker fix this? If yes, how?

Did you do a google search for HDMI problems and the 805? There appears to be a boat load of issues with HDMI and that receiver.
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post #14865 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

So I went back to "BluRay player" as the settings option. By powering on the Oppo first (set to "BluRay player" as input), then AVR, then HDTV (Panny 65VT50) and letting them all "stabilize" in their own power-on sequences, and then power on the DMA2100 and wait for its own 30-second power on/stabilize period), and then switch inputs on the 103 from BluRay to rear external HDMI (and now have the multi-device HDMI handshake work perfectly through all power-on and stable devices)... well while this was a bit of an annoyance, at least it was guaranteed to work 100% perfectly.
So this may work also for me? Cooooooooool if it does! It would not cost me anything at all!! I need to find someone who can teach me how to set up my Harmony One Remote. Start by switching on the Oppo 103, on Blue Ray rather than main menu, then wait 30 seconds, then switch on the AVR, then wait a few seconds and then switch on the JVC projector... Do you think that this might work? Or should the sequence be inverted?

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post #14866 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 01:13 AM
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Did you do a google search for HDMI problems and the 805? There appears to be a boat load of issues with HDMI and that receiver.
Yes I did. But to do a fw upgrade is risky, appparently. Furthermore that device, the Onkyo, works perfectly with all other devices using the same cables, the same length, the same setup, etc. This means that the Oppo 103 HDMI chip is weaker or in some way different and that it is this difference that is causing the problems.

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post #14867 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

You said your equipment was "in the other room" and that you had your existing HDMI cable in the wall. That suggested to me that the distance from equipment to the TV (from the other room where the Oppo and AVR are presumably located) is more than 6ft, and possibly more than 20ft.
No. The Oppo is about 30 cm from the AVR, but behind a wall. The projector is higher, about 1.5m from the AVR, on the same side of the wall of the AVR.
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Your "problem solving" approach should include trying to play with these variables... cut
I did. And I know that it works if I use 2 cables. But that's my whole point! I have to use 2 cables and I can't because nobody warned me that I had t use 2 cables nor should I be obliged to know all this as the there is no warning that the Oppo 103 should be instaled by a specialist as it is unreasonable to expect a consumer to be aware of these HDMI handshake problems!

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post #14868 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

You just need a HDMI switch that has EDID program capability. You will just mirror the EDID of one of the devices in the chain so that there is just a single check, rather than multiple checks what the downstream equipment is capable of.
Thanks. This is the second or third fix that I will try. Do you think that this device will cost more or less than 2 active cables?

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post #14869 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 02:11 AM - Thread Starter
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More, but depends on the length of the cables.
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post #14870 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 02:37 AM
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More, but depends on the length of the cables.
My concern is that the cables may not fit.
The problem is not the cable body itself as much as the HDMI "head" or "plug". When one cable is inserted there is no space to pass the "head" or "plug" of the second cable.
And I'm not sure that the active cable is that thin...
That's why my first option is to find someone who can teach me how to program my Harmony One Remote to start the devices with a specific sequence and pause (this will cost me nothing) and then I'm not sure if I should try the cables (and waste more money if they are too thick) or use a switch straight away, even if it costs more.

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post #14871 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 03:03 AM
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Does anybody have experience in the mods from OPPOMOD.COM? I found a very interesting test from a French website praysing the lineaer power mods and I was wondering if anybody tested these?
http://www.cinehomedigital.com/2013/10/test-alimentation-lineaire-regulee-oppomod-platines-oppo-93103-95105.html
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post #14872 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 06:31 AM
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Watched the new blu ray 'Rush' movie last night and had it freeze at least five times during playback. Sometimes I could FF past the freeze point but one episode required me to reboot the oppo 103. Anyone else seen this behavior with this movie in particular?
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post #14873 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 06:39 AM
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Watched the new blu ray 'Rush' movie last night and had it freeze at least five times during playback. Sometimes I could FF past the freeze point but one episode required me to reboot the oppo 103. Anyone else seen this behavior with this movie in particular?

No trouble with Redbox rental, also last night.

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post #14874 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 06:42 AM
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Watched the new blu ray 'Rush' movie last night and had it freeze at least five times during playback. Sometimes I could FF past the freeze point but one episode required me to reboot the oppo 103. Anyone else seen this behavior with this movie in particular?

 

 

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No trouble with Redbox rental, also last night.

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No problem with the rental on my 103


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post #14875 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 06:50 AM
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Am I wrong??? Or does this guy expect to plug in a complicated piece of electronics, with no knowledge at all about the capabilities of said device, and expect it to run properly when he pushes the ON button??? eek.gif

I think I will send him some cheese.

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post #14876 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 07:43 AM
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Watched the new blu ray 'Rush' movie last night and had it freeze at least five times during playback. Sometimes I could FF past the freeze point but one episode required me to reboot the oppo 103. Anyone else seen this behavior with this movie in particular?

No problem playing a rental version the other night.

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post #14877 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 11:59 AM
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I'm overwhelmed by intransigent responses to attempted help from so many sources, so I'm resorting to a block. It's a black day in Lake Wobegon. redface.gif
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post #14878 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

My latest measurements of A/V synchronization suggest that there is more in play than simply a 1 or 2 frame buffer at the TV. I haven't measured every possibility yet. These measurements are all audio advanced ahead of the video in microseconds. I'm on BDP10X-68-1225B firmware.

HDMI 1 to video/HDMI 2 to audio Split A/V:

Bitstream DTS-HD MA w/24p 115ms

Bitstream DTS-HD MA w/60p (3/2 pulldown) 55-60ms*

LPCM DTS-HD MA w/24p 65-70 ms

LPCM DTS-HD MA w/60p (3/2 pulldown) 20-25ms*

Bitstream DD True HD w/24p 35-40 ms*

Bitstream DD True HD w/60p (3/2 pulldown) 40 ms*

LPCM DD True HD w/24p 120ms

LPCM DD True HD w/60p (3/2 pulldown) 40-45ms


HDMI 2 only (Tested only to check the Auto Sync function on my AVR. Results were identical with Auto Sync on and off revealing that my television does not support it.):

Bitstream DTS-HD MA w/24p 50ms

Bitstream DTS-HD MA w/60p (3/2 pulldown) 25ms

*These measurements are less certain on accuracy due to the interaction of the frame rate of the source and the frame rate of the device I measured with. They should still be accurate to less than a quarter of a frame.


The measurements I find particularly revealing in regards to any A/V synchronization error that may be being introduced by the Oppo itself is the difference between LPCM DTS-HD MA w/24p and LPCM DD True HD w/24p. Since the AVR should be receiving identical LPCM from both of these, there should be no difference in it's processing time which then points the finger at the Oppo for the difference in video or audio delay, or an error on my source disc - Spears & Munsil HD Benchmark 2nd Edition Blu-ray.

Ultimately I have set my audio delay for on my AVR for the HDMI input from the Oppo to 110ms. This is based on keeping all the possibilities that I measured above within the "undetectability plateau" of -96ms to +22ms (- being audio delayed behind video, and + being audio advanced ahead of video). With variations in source material, this will hopefully keep everything within the detectability threshold of -125ms to +45ms.

I don't believe it is currently possible on the BDP-103 to set different A/V sync settings for Blu-ray and DVD. If your AVR has adjustable audio delays for different inputs, it might be possible to set up one for Blu-ray and one for DVD with the DVD input assigned to the same HDMI input at the Blu-ray. Or you could run a coaxial or optical digital cable to your AVR for playing DVDs. Either way, you could then switch delays simply by switching between Blu-ray and DVD inputs on your AVR. I use coaxial from the BDP-103 to my AVR for playing CDs, and I have 0 delay set on that input.

Was this issue ever solved with oppo? I have noticed a subtle sync issue with some blurays. I have the audio sync on my marantz 8801 set to 0 and on auto. How is this an issue when the avp should account for this?

Panasonic TC-P65ZT60
Marantz AV8801 pre-pro / MM8077 amp
Martin Logan Motion 50XT Center
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post #14879 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post

Was this issue ever solved with oppo? I have noticed a subtle sync issue with some blurays. I have the audio sync on my marantz 8801 set to 0 and on auto. How is this an issue when the avp should account for this?
Given that there have been no firmware releases since this issue was brought up, I would say... no!

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post #14880 of 21050 Old 02-08-2014, 01:17 PM
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Given that there have been no firmware releases since this issue was brought up, I would say... no!

Is this a common problem?

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