Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 562 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16831 of 21410 Old 05-12-2014, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MIIKE888 View Post

Hi!

why are OPPO not releasing an update on the Media control app it it so so broken after firmware update?!

//Mike

App updates require certification by the app gods, out of Oppo's control.
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post #16832 of 21410 Old 05-12-2014, 04:19 PM
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Is there anyway I can get an Oppo 103 to upscale my Standard Def DirecTv signal?

I currently have the following:
Onkyo NR-809
Sharp Aquaos Quattron 60" 3D TV
Standard Def DirecTv Cable Box that only has RCA outputs, it has no HDMI output and the Oppo doesn't accept RCA as an input?

How can I connect all the above devices so that I can use the Oppo to Upscale the SD content to HD content?

Thanks.
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post #16833 of 21410 Old 05-12-2014, 04:27 PM
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^ You can't. The OPPO only has Digital video input (HDMI). Your DirecTV box only has Analog video output (the RCA cables).

You would need to replace the DirecTV box with one that has HDMI output.
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post #16834 of 21410 Old 05-12-2014, 04:52 PM
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Therein lies the problem, to get a DirecTv box that had HDMI output I need to order HD service, I was hoping to use the Oppo to upscale my SD service to something closer to HD without having to pay for it.

I currently have my Cable box hooked up to my AVR with the RCA cables, then my AVR outputs everything connected to it to the TV using a HDMI cable (Though I dont thin I am upscaling anything doing it this way?), could I not take that AVR HDMI output and put that into the HDMI input of the Oppo, then use the HDMI output 1 on the Oppo and send that to the TV? Then connect a Optical Audio cable back to the AVR?

This all shows my high level of ignorance.

Thanks for the replies./
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post #16835 of 21410 Old 05-12-2014, 04:59 PM
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^ Sure, you can do that. Essentially you've come up with a more complicated way to make an HDMI output for your DirecTV box.

Don't expect miracles. Upscaling to HD resolution can't magically create content quality which was never in the original SD video to begin with.

On top of whatever quality limits are inherent in the SD stream DirecTV is sending to your DirecTV box, the Analog video output stage of your DirecTV box (what feeds those RCA cables) is most likely godawful. That can't be fixed by upscaling. The information (picture quality) is permanently lost.
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post #16836 of 21410 Old 05-12-2014, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM300EXC View Post

Therein lies the problem, to get a DirecTv box that had HDMI output I need to order HD service, I was hoping to use the Oppo to upscale my SD service to something closer to HD without having to pay for it.

I currently have my Cable box hooked up to my AVR with the RCA cables, then my AVR outputs everything connected to it to the TV using a HDMI cable (Though I dont thin I am upscaling anything doing it this way?), could I not take that AVR HDMI output and put that into the HDMI input of the Oppo, then use the HDMI output 1 on the Oppo and send that to the TV? Then connect a Optical Audio cable back to the AVR?

This all shows my high level of ignorance.

Thanks for the replies./
Your TV is already upscaling the SD to your set's native resolution (I assume 1080X1920). Your TV has to upscale since it is a high definition TV with fixed pixel display and must upscale everything not in its native resolution that comes into the TV to whatever its native resolution is.

With an SD source (which may be iffy to begin with), I doubt an Oppo player would do significantly better. It may be time to bite the bullet and think about some sort of HD service, whether from satellite, cable, off-the-air, or streaming.

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post #16837 of 21410 Old 05-12-2014, 05:27 PM
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^How do you know his TV upscales all content?? My TVs don't do that unless I tell them to. Many are capable of displaying exactly what is fed to them.
I would also wonder what kind of AVR he is using. Perhaps his AVR could also be upscaling his throughput.

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post #16838 of 21410 Old 05-12-2014, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

^How do you know his TV upscales all content?? My TVs don't do that unless I tell them to. Many are capable of displaying exactly what is fed to them.
I would also wonder what kind of AVR he is using. Perhaps his AVR could also be upscaling his throughput.
Unless SD content is displayed in a small window in the middle of the display with huge black borders on all 4 sides, something is scaling the image to the native resolution of the display.
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post #16839 of 21410 Old 05-12-2014, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

^How do you know his TV upscales all content?? My TVs don't do that unless I tell them to. Many are capable of displaying exactly what is fed to them.
I would also wonder what kind of AVR he is using. Perhaps his AVR could also be upscaling his throughput.
What TVs do you have that display input resolutions without converting them to the TV's native resolution? If you are including computer monitors, they are not TVs. smile.gif
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post #16840 of 21410 Old 05-12-2014, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Unless SD content is displayed in a small window in the middle of the display with huge black borders on all 4 sides, something is scaling the image to the native resolution of the display.
Yep, true.
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

What TVs do you have that display input resolutions without converting them to the TV's native resolution? If you are including computer monitors, they are not TVs. smile.gif
There are TVs that do it. I think my Sony that is several years old does it, and even my mother-in-laws el-cheapo Walmart TV does it.
I had to fix it for her so the pic would fill the screen. Not just to stretch-fit, it was letterboxing on the SD content.

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post #16841 of 21410 Old 05-12-2014, 07:46 PM
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Digital displays (any fixed pixel panel or projector using a fixed pixel panel) have to scale. Otherwise your SD content turns into a postage stamp in the center of the screen.

Analog displays -- i.e., CRT based screens and projectors, can fill the screen without extrapolating extra pixels by basically magnifying the SD image -- i.e., splashing it across the same distance they use to show HD images. Instead of scaling (inventing intermediate pixels via extrapolation) you get "fatter SD pixels".
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post #16842 of 21410 Old 05-12-2014, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Unless SD content is displayed in a small window in the middle of the display with huge black borders on all 4 sides, something is scaling the image to the native resolution of the display.
Yep, true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

What TVs do you have that display input resolutions without converting them to the TV's native resolution? If you are including computer monitors, they are not TVs. smile.gif
There are TVs that do it. I think my Sony that is several years old does it, and even my mother-in-laws el-cheapo Walmart TV does it.
I had to fix it for her so the pic would fill the screen. Not just to stretch-fit, it was letterboxing on the SD content.
I would not advise people with scaling questions using old analog devices as a benchmark. wink.gif
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post #16843 of 21410 Old 05-12-2014, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I would not advise people with scaling questions using old analog devices as a benchmark. wink.gif

Old analog devices? The TVs I was referring to are 1080p capable LCD panel TVs.

You guys can be right though. I don't mind. wink.gif
Maybe I am misinterpreting what I saw.

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post #16844 of 21410 Old 05-13-2014, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Digital displays (any fixed pixel panel or projector using a fixed pixel panel) has to scale. Otherwise your SD content turns into a postage stamp in the center of the screen.

That having been said, in my experience my Oppo does a much better job of upscaling DVD resolution material to 1080 than my Sony Tv does. I think this is because the Sony just does a "geometric stretch" on each single frame to map input pixels to output pixels, whereas the Oppo does something more sophisticated that involves edge and contrast enhancement, and also does some interpolation of moving edges between frames. Anyway, IMHO it looks a lot better...
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post #16845 of 21410 Old 05-13-2014, 08:22 AM
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I have a Onkyo NR 809 AVR
I have a Aquos 60" Quattron 3D 240Hz TV

I do have the Mohu Sky Out Door HD Antennea and Powered Splitter on its way to see what type of over the air HD I can grab. I do live high upon a hill hopefully I'll get half of what the Website predicts I will get with this device.

Ugh.
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post #16846 of 21410 Old 05-13-2014, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by KTM300EXC View Post

I have a Onkyo NR 809 AVR
I have a Aquos 60" Quattron 3D 240Hz TV

I do have the Mohu Sky Out Door HD Antennea and Powered Splitter on its way to see what type of over the air HD I can grab. I do live high upon a hill hopefully I'll get half of what the Website predicts I will get with this device.

Ugh.
Did you post in the wrong thread? I don't see anything in the above that's relevant to the BDP-103...
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post #16847 of 21410 Old 05-13-2014, 08:37 AM
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NO, I didnt post in the wrong thread. A few replies back someone was asking what TV I had, to provide a better repsonse to my initial questions regarding the Oppo.
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post #16848 of 21410 Old 05-13-2014, 03:34 PM
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From what I've read, and it makes sense to me, humans don't perceive slightly delayed audio as being out of sync. Anything from audio being about 20ms ahead to 95ms behind the image is all perceived as being perfectly in sync. Unless we are standing very close to what we are observing, the sound is lagging behind the image. Because of the differences in the speed of light and the speed of sound, If we are witnessing some activity, such as a person speaking, from 40 feet away the sound is about 45ms behind the image. I don't know anyone who perceives this as being out of sync.

The difficulty this presents is being able to accurately synchronize audio and video using a A/V synchronization pattern with our eyes and ears alone. The benefit of it is that if we can contain all the audio to image variation to within that roughly 20ms early to 95ms late range, we won't perceive it as being out of sync. There is room for error and variation.

I second this. Even a person speaking to you from 10 feet away will be 11 ms out of sync due to the speed of sound. A car door being closed 20 feet away will be 22 ms out of sync. Our brains are wired to accommodate this and combine out of sync audio and visual signal - we have built in AV sync! But only to a point. Those who claim to be able to set sync to the exact 10ms boundary by eye must have real problems operating in normal everyday life wink.gif

In addition, our brains detect when sound comes ahead of the image much easier, because that is not normal to us and doesn't occur in real life.

My method for finding sync is to use a pattern (Spears and Munsil) and go with low delays until I can tell that it is out of sync. Then I find the point with audio delayed a high value where I can tell it is out of sync. I used to then go half way between this, but now I use 1/3 of the way after learning how much more sensitive the brain is to early sound than late sound.

I've also found that the longer I watch these patterns over and over in one sitting, the more difficult it becomes for me to tell what's in sync.
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post #16849 of 21410 Old 05-13-2014, 03:44 PM
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NO, I didnt post in the wrong thread. A few replies back someone was asking what TV I had, to provide a better repsonse to my initial questions regarding the Oppo.

Back to your initial question - the OPPO can't "directly" do the upscaling for you from a composite video source as there are no composite inputs. eek.gif There are, however, fairly inexpensive devices such as http://www.amazon.com/Etekcity%C2%AE-Composite-Converter-Upscaler-High-definition/dp/B00D68UXQE/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1400019805&sr=1-2&keywords=composite+to+hdmi+upscaler that can take composite to 720p or 1080p but I doubt it would do any better job of the upscaling than what your TV already provides. You could invest the $30 or so, use that to take it to 720p and let the OPPO do the rest. I am sure you can find more like that if you look around a bit.

On the other end of the spectrum there are devices like the Lumagen 2022, 2042, and the newest 2144 that WILL take your composite/component/s-video/stereo audio, upscale all the way to Ultra4K/60 (for the newest 2144) and output that over HDMI. This would likely do a much better job - they are expensive, but I would expect about the best upscaling job you might find considering the limitations of the 480i input they are getting from your DirecTV box. As I believe you said - you recognize garbage in/garbage out smile.gif I shudder to think what a 480i input scaled to 4K on a big TV/Projection screen might look like biggrin.gif Unless your future plans include some heavy duty calibration and such this would likely be way to much investment! The idea is there are many options in between.

i would think for a result you might be (more or less) happy with - you will need to consider biting the bullet and getting a HD provider for your programming. Have you looked at Netflix which is already supported by the OPPO in lieu of traditional cable/satellite services? That along with the OTA service you seem to be looking into might be more than enough - it all depends on your programming requirements.

Good Luck
Bill
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post #16850 of 21410 Old 05-13-2014, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I would not advise people with scaling questions using old analog devices as a benchmark. wink.gif

Old analog devices? The TVs I was referring to are 1080p capable LCD panel TVs.

You guys can be right though. I don't mind. wink.gif
Maybe I am misinterpreting what I saw.
Probably what you saw was the "digital" LCD upscaling to it's native resolution if the input was anything other than 1080p.
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post #16851 of 21410 Old 05-13-2014, 05:38 PM
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I have an older Plasma in the bedroom (only 720p / 1080i capable for HD!) with a native resolution of 768 lines, so 480i, 480p, & 720p gets "upscaled" to 768 lines, 1080i gets "downscaled" to 768 lines. But I love it because it has 6 alarm clocks!

LOL
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post #16852 of 21410 Old 05-13-2014, 06:01 PM
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NO, I didnt post in the wrong thread. A few replies back someone was asking what TV I had, to provide a better repsonse to my initial questions regarding the Oppo.
Sorry - the context of your post got lost in the shuffle smile.gif. But as others have said, don't expect any miracles deinterlacing and scaling DirecTV SD content. The best of it can certainly be made to look decent on a 60" display, but the worst quality channels still aren't going to look great no matter what you use for deinterlacing and scaling. But none of it is going to hold a candle to having a true HD source. Depending on what programming you watch, you may find that installing an OTA antenna (as you appear to be pursuing) will be a very worthwhile investment. If you're into sports, you really owe it to yourself to get a HD feed for it as it makes a HUGE difference.
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post #16853 of 21410 Old 05-13-2014, 08:24 PM
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I believe that the Oppo can replace my media player, Sonos and current Blu Ray player but I'd like confirmation.

Right now I use XBMC to stream MKV with high res (TrueHD, DTS-MA) and other audio formats to a Lacie LacinemaHD (which doesn't do high res BD audio). It's very important to me that the media player handle subtitles in the MKV well. The Lacinema requires the subtitles to be in DVD format, which I'm fine with. Can the Oppo play subtitles in that format for a BD-quality MKV? Does the Oppo support chapter skipping in MKV?

XBMC also network-enables my music library. I get the impression that the Oppo can play just about anything directly but can it also convert everything to PCM so that my preprocessor can be the DAC?

I won't be using HDMI for anything other than video as my processor doesn't have that. (I'm trying to wait out all the HDMI changes cool.gif ).
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post #16854 of 21410 Old 05-13-2014, 08:26 PM
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There is a thread in the Network Media Server section for using the Oppo 103 as a media server. Might find out more in that thread. My understanding however is if primary use is as a media server it is probably not exactly the recommended product.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #16855 of 21410 Old 05-13-2014, 09:05 PM
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There is a thread in the Network Media Server section for using the Oppo 103 as a media server. Might find out more in that thread. My understanding however is if primary use is as a media server it is probably not exactly the recommended product.
There is no thread for using the Oppo as a media server. It is not a media server. It is not billed as a media server. It is not sold as a media server. You can use it with a media server, however. That thread is at the link below. There is also much discussion about it in this thread and the BDP-105 thread, both of which have had substantial discussions surrounding subtitles with MKV.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1215071/oppo-bdp-83-93-95-103-105-dlna-upnp-thread

(sorry to be so insufferably-pedantic about it - but technology is all about the details - so getting them right when we talk about it is important for setting expectations)

As for the OP's original question - I use the BDP-103 almost-exclusively with a DLNA server (JRiver Media Center), and an iPad-based control app (JRemote). I rip each of my blu-rays and DVDs with only one audio stream, selecting the audio stream that is the best available on the disc (highest channel count, lossless if possible, etc) , so I have several hundred MKVs with audio in nearly every high-res lossy and lossless format out there. They all play great. I also routinely stream stereo and multichannel flac (24/48, 24/96) and stereo alac (16/44[.1]) audio with no problems (tens of thousands of files). Gapless playback for classical and/or concept albums over DLNA is still not supported - although it may be getting closer. There are work-arounds, however.

I don't stream DSD files. I don't have a way to rip them from my SACDs, so this is one of the few places where I still use the shiny-disk for playback. Others have made DSDs stream using several of the media servers, including JRMC and oShare (among others). I would do a thread search for "DSD DLNA" in the threads mentioned above and read-up. Here is ONE data point:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432162/official-oppo-bdp-103-owners-thread/14970#post_24351284

I don't use subtitles, and really can't speak to it. But many users appear to have had issues, and you might want to do a search on the threads mentioned above so you can read through it yourself.

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Speakers: (4) Monitor Audio Silver 9i (Front and Surround), (1) Monitor Audio Silver 12i (Center), (4) Monitor Audio Silver 4i (Rear and Wide), (2) Aperion Audio Bravus II 8d (Subwoofers)
Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-87 AVR (9.2)
Sources: Oppo BDP-103, Roku 3, Cable...
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post #16856 of 21410 Old 05-14-2014, 04:03 AM
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The Lacinema requires the subtitles to be in DVD format, which I'm fine with. Can the Oppo play subtitles in that format for a BD-quality MKV?

The OPPO supports both standard def and hidef VOBSUB in MKV, as well as PGS which is native to Blu-ray. And text subtitles like SRT.
Quote:
Does the Oppo support chapter skipping in MKV?

Yes.
Quote:
XBMC also network-enables my music library. I get the impression that the Oppo can play just about anything directly

Well...


Quote:
but can it also convert everything to PCM so that my preprocessor can be the DAC?

Yes...
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I won't be using HDMI for anything other than video as my processor doesn't have that

What audio connection are you going to use?
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I'm trying to wait out all the HDMI changes

It's a long wait, and HDMI 2.0 will make the complexity and compatibility issues considerably worse.

-Bill

Review older films here: 1979 and earlier | 1980s | 1990s | Combined reviews: Strange Picture Scroll
Unofficial OPPO FAQS: BDP-103 | BDP-93 | BDP-83 | BDP-80    
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post #16857 of 21410 Old 05-14-2014, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

What audio connection are you going to use?
For movies I'll be using the 7.1 analog out. For music the digital outs. I expect my Cinema11's DACs and analog stage are superior to the 103's. Maybe not the 105's. But music is more my focus when it comes to audio quality.

But I think the 103 is still an upgrade over the analog of my DMP-500.
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It's a long wait, and HDMI 2.0 will make the complexity and compatibility issues considerably worse.
-Bill

I had success waiting out Windows, IMO, so I'm batting 1000 on the waiting strategy biggrin.gif
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post #16858 of 21410 Old 05-14-2014, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by LairdWilliams View Post

Gapless playback for classical and/or concept albums over DLNA is still not supported - although it may be getting closer.

What do you lose if you just rip the album to one big file?
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post #16859 of 21410 Old 05-14-2014, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by artur9 View Post

What do you lose if you just rip the album to one big file?
Nothing- if that is the only way you listen to it.
Basically, doing that (or something similar) is the work-around.

I actually rip to individual files and then make a single combined track from those - so I can have it both ways. The redundancy is not a big deal, since (at least in my case) it is not enough albums to matter much. At most, a couple dozen of the >>1000 albums in my non-SACD collection benefit from the gapless treatment. This method also works for surround albums ripped from my DVD audio and Blu-Ray music collections, where the option to rip one big file is often missing from the tools.

Display: Panasonic P60UT50 (Plasma)
Speakers: (4) Monitor Audio Silver 9i (Front and Surround), (1) Monitor Audio Silver 12i (Center), (4) Monitor Audio Silver 4i (Rear and Wide), (2) Aperion Audio Bravus II 8d (Subwoofers)
Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-87 AVR (9.2)
Sources: Oppo BDP-103, Roku 3, Cable...
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post #16860 of 21410 Old 05-14-2014, 07:23 AM
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When you touch the info button the display pops up. I assume the number in the upper left hand corner is the video bit rate. Does the Oppo display audio bit rate too? I was looking for it.

Panasonic TC-P50ST60 plasma HD television, Onkyo TX-SR805 and PIONEER ELITE VSX-47TX receivers, Klipsch RB-75(2 pair) and RB-61 bookshelf speakers, Klipsch RSW-10, RSW-12(2), Velodyne HGS-12, HGS-18 subwoofers, OPPO BDP-103, PS3 80G, PIONEER DV-525 dvd player, Klipsch RS-42 surrounds, Klipsch RC-52 center channel
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