Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 604 - AVS Forum
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post #18091 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Cross View Post
I somehow put my question into the quote. what I am asking is the procedure to calibrate My system when connected via the 7.1 analog outputs from the 103 to a pre/pro
You have to decide whether the pre-pro or the OPPO will do your speaker configuration management. You only want to do that in one place. You disable such stuff in the other place. For example, if the pre-pro is going to do the work, then, in the OPPO, you set all speakers LARGE, equidistant (any distance will do so long as they are all set the same), and with 0dB volume trim. If the OPPO is going to do the work -- which is what I'll assume here -- then you make similar settings in the pre-pro to keep it from also trying to do it.

In the OPPO, set up your desire speaker configuration. In your case, that's a down-mix of 7.1, for example. Also enter your speaker distances -- measured from the front of the grill to your head position at center seating. You also need to decide whether you want the OPPO do to Crossover processing -- steering bass from your normal speakers to the subwoofer. If so, set those speakers to SMALL, otherwise to LARGE. From my post above you'll know that you need to make this choice *BEFORE* you go set your speaker levels. If you've decided to set any speakers SMALL, also select a Crossover frequency. 80Hz is a good, "one size fits all", choice until you have a chance to experiment.

Typically you will do main Volume adjustment for listening using the Volume knob on your pre-pro. In that case, set the Analog output volume of the OPPO to FIXED (= Volume 100). Be sure to set the volume knob of the pre-pro way down until you find out a comfortable setting for it.

OK, now play your calibration track. If you get the AIX disc from OPPO, use the 7.1 LPCM track from the set it offers.

Take your SPL meter and set it to "Slow" response and "C" weighting. If it has a range adjustment, set it to the range for 75dB -- a comfortably loud level that will give you accurate results without being too annoying while you do this.

In the OPPO, set ALL of the speaker Volume trims to 0dB.

Now play the test track and adjust main Volume on the pre-pro until the Left Front speaker measures 75dB SPL. When measuring this, hold the SPL meter so it points straight up towards the ceiling, held at arm's length and positioned at seated ear height at your center seating position. If your seat has a high back or is flush to a wall, move the SPL meter up a few inches or a foot closer to the TV to get it away from such blocking surfaces. You will use this exact same positioning of the SPL meter to measure all the speakers and Sub.

OK so now you have main Volume set so that the Left Front speaker produces 75dB SPL from that calibration track with 0dB speaker volume trim in the OPPO. That's one speaker done.

Now, without changing main volume, measure each of the other speakers in turn. Adjust their speaker volume trim in the OPPO so that they ALSO measure 75dB SPL.

When you get to the Subwoofer, do *NOT* use the speaker volume trim in the OPPO. Leave its Sub trim at 0dB, just like Left Front. Instead adjust the Sub output using the volume knob on the Sub itself. It helps if a friend can turn that while you stay with the meter.

Take another pass around the speakers with the calibration track. They should all measure the same SPL. Voila! That's done.

While you are at it, you can now play the Crossover test track on the AIX disc. That sends a test tone to Left Front that sweeps up and down in frequency from very low bass to mid-range. At the higher frequency end, all of the sound will be coming from Left Front. At the lower frequency end, all of the sound will be coming EITHER from Left Front or from your Sub depending on whether you have a Crossover enabled.

If everything is set up right, that tone should maintain constant volume throughout the frequency range (except for the very lowest bass which is more felt than heard). If you have no Crossover set, this will show you whether your speaker is OK producing that bass on its own. If you have Crossover set, this will show you how smoothly the Crossover transition is working. If the volume goes up and down across the sweep, you could try a different Crossover frequency. In many cases, taming bass output problems is best handled by repositioning speakers/sub. In bass frequencies, even inches matter in terms of how the speaker driver couples bass to the geometry of the room.

Note that if you decide to change from having a Crossover to no Crossover, you will need to revisit your speaker level settings to make sure the Sub output level is correct.
--Bob


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Last edited by Bob Pariseau; 09-02-2014 at 02:24 PM.
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post #18092 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 04:27 PM
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No, not at all. You can use the built in Windows sharing functionality to share any drive / folder on any drive on your PC (whether it's an internal or external drive doesn't matter) to get the SMB shares you're looking for.

Thanks! actually this was easy to set up, and via SMB I now see all of my files, including the ones that oShare was overlooking for some reason.


I still get occasional Oppo glitches that I get occasionally when playing music files over my home network (the player locks up, will not respond to any remote or front panel keys other that PWR--once powered down and restarted, things generally will work without a hitch for the rest of the day, except once in a while I have to do a second powercycle immediately after the first one). But this can't be due to SMB, since the same thing happens with oShare and another DLNA server I have (Asset uPnP).

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post #18093 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post
What format is this?
I don't know exactly, I am no expert in that domain.
My Oppo 103 only shows AAC 2ch. 48kHz
=> [I made a small mistake: I indicated ACC when it actually is AAC]

* And I also have the same issue with other tunes showing MP3 2ch. 48kHz
- And my pre/pro shows PCM @ 48kHz with the lights on for both the L and R front channels.

<<>> The only way to get more than only my center speaker reproducing sound (with PLIIz or x engaged),
is to use the Mono Movie DSP audio mode. Then all my speakers are now playing. ...Also with Full Mono audio mode and All Chl Stereo DSP audio modes.
But the best is Mono Movie DSP audio mode.

It seems to me that my Oppo 103 is indicating 2ch MONO, and not Stereo; is that possible, because that is what seems the most logical explanation to me.

Some AAC 2ch and MP3 2ch @ 48kHz audio modes are mono, and others are stereo.
Is that possible?

Would be nice if was well indicated (delineated) by the Oppo 103's Info display, and also by my pre/pro's Info display.

What do you think?

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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Last edited by NorthSky; 09-02-2014 at 06:17 PM. Reason: Small indic + small typo
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post #18094 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
Thanks! actually this was easy to set up, and via SMB I now see all of my files, including the ones that oShare was overlooking for some reason.
If it was easy to setup, you must have done something wrong as it's supposed to be a right of passage to struggle with getting SMB shares working properly.
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post #18095 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post
Bob, what is the "step size" of the 103's volume adjustment?
I know the 105/105D's is .5 db per step.
In 1dB steps. *** Correction: It has been refined to 0.5dB steps (firmware update, for the 103).

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
Unless the song is actually in mono, this is probably an artifact of the Dolby decoding. Just switch your pre/pro to stereo.
Yes it works in Stereo mode (mono stereo it seems), but I want it all around from Dolby Pro Logic IIx and IIz. ...And it does not work as the sound is only coming from my center channel speaker.

PLII probably needs at least stereo to be able to process, I guess. If it is two-channel (mono) audio, then you'll get sound only from one channel, the center one. ...And nothing @ all from the other four, or six, or, eight, or ten other channels.

So, no good with PLII, PLIIx, PLIIz, all dts audio mode flavors, and all THX audio mode flavors.

...Only with some DSP audio modes: Full Mono, All Ch Stereo, and Mono Movie. ...And nothing else.

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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Last edited by NorthSky; 09-02-2014 at 06:20 PM. Reason: Correction
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post #18096 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
I think you may still be a bit confused... Beta testers don't necessarily get one of every model that Oppo has available for sale. So if you ask one of us what player we actually use for "every day" use versus which player we would purchase with our own money for "every day" use, you might get a different answer (and you did, in fact) because most of us don't have all 4 current models (103, 103D, 105, and 105D) in our possession. Since he normally uses the HDMI connection to his Anthem pre-pro, there would be no need for him to spend the extra money on a 105D as the 103D would suit his needs just fine. But for beta testing purposes, the 105D has more stuff (extra inputs, extra analog outputs) that can be tested.
So, Bob purchased the 103D for himself?

...Or is he using it for his own personal use and pleasure @ home with his wife and kids and friends?

And of course I assume that it is connected to his Anthem Statement D2v, through the HDMI connection, and that Anthem pre/pro is also being constantly tested.

My conclusion: Bob is always testing for his own personal pleasure, and ours.
So it don't matter what he's using or not, it's all his, and ours to gain from.
What a guy! ...Bob

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #18097 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
I'll have to retract my earlier statement. I had forgotten that OPPO was able to refine this for the 103 player as well.

The Analog output Volume step size for ALL the 10x family of players is the same in current firmware: 0.5dB per Volume step, where Volume 100 (or Volume FIXED) represents full output and anything less than that is attenuated from full output. Volume 0 is a special case -- implemented as "Mute" -- including Muting the digital audio outputs.

Note that when using DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion, the 103 and 103D lose the ability to control Analog output Volume (along with all the other audio processing). You get Volume 100 regardless of how it is set. (But MUTE still functions.) The 105 and 105D *DO* have the ability to control Analog output Volume even when DSD is sent directly to the DACs.
--Bob
Jeez, I needed to be updated as well. ...Refinement; we all can use some of that in our lives, for sure.

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #18098 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 05:52 PM
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Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
In 1dB steps.







"Sir Bob" mentioned earlier it was .5 dB per step....it's the same for all 10x Oppo players.

Edit: I see you just found that out before my post...
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post #18099 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post
"Sir Bob" mentioned earlier it was .5 dB per step....it's the same for all 10x Oppo players.

Edit: I see you just found that out before my post...
I thought it was different for the 103 and 105. 105 is digital, 0.5db per step. 103 is analog?

With dual subs, stack'em in the corner and put on a jockstrap. Don't want EVERYTHING in the room jingling!
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post #18100 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
Nope, it's down 10dB on HDMI as well.

The Subwoofer output is intended to handle LFE content. LFE exists as a place to record LOUD bass. To do that without clipping, it is recorded 10dB down. That means it has to be boosted +10dB external to the player to match the other speaker channels.

With HDMI audio that is handled as a standard function by your HDMI-capable AVR.

With Analog audio, there is also the possibility of "bass steering" from the other speaker channels into the subwoofer channel due to the action of the crossover. That requires additional attenuation of the Subwoofer output to preclude clipping.

So if a Crossover is active, the Subwoofer RCA Analog output needs +15dB boost to match the other RCA Analog outputs. With no Crossover active, it need +10dB boost. If passing the Analog Subwoofer signal through an AVR, odds are it will provide +10dB boost by default. But in any event you can accomplish the needed boost by adjusting the Volume knob on the subwoofer.

You can ignore all these details if you take the simple step of just checking levels with a calibration disc and an SPL meter -- adjusting the Volume knob on the Sub as needed. When the Sub SPL measures the same as the main speaker SPLs (for any given Volume), then you are good to go.
--Bob
I think that my pre/pro takes automatically care of that; from the HDMI audio convoy.

But! From the multichannel analog connections, I have to make manual adjustments.

And! No way, no way ever that I am going to touch the Gains on my subwoofers themselves.
Everything has to be done from the pre/pro, and the Oppo.
It took me forever to have my two subs properly balanced with each other and with my room,
from their Gain controls. I would not fool around with them again.
Besides, the sound is better from the HDMI connections (with Audyssey engaged), than from the multichannel analog connections (without Audyssey REQ).

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #18101 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ Yes. Test both ways with a calibration disc to confirm. If your AVR has no level trims (or separate trims) for Analog audio pass through, a simple solution is to set the volume knob on the Sub according to what's needed for the Analog path. Then, for the HDMI path, use the Sub level trim in the AVR to compensate for any needed difference.
--Bob
Every pre/pro (and AV receiver) with multichannel analog input, should give us access to channel level trims, at the very least, plus a LFE/subwoofer gain control (special boost from 0 to 20dB in 0.5dB steps).

99.5% don't offer any of that, and in my honest opinion (wise), it is a major oversight. ...How could they?
...Probably to save money from adding a simple and inexpensive ADC chip. ...?

What you think Bob, your Anthem pre/pro has that?

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #18102 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post
"Sir Bob" mentioned earlier it was .5 dB per step....it's the same for all 10x Oppo players.

Edit: I see you just found that out before my post...
Yes, and I also updated (corrected) my prior post after I discovered the good news from "Sir Bob".

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #18103 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post
I thought it was different for the 103 and 105. 105 is digital, 0.5db per step. 103 is analog?
All analog, both of them; the 105 and the 103.

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #18104 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
All analog, both of them; the 105 and the 103.
The volume controls? They're digital volume controls, not analog.
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post #18105 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
The volume controls? They're digital volume controls, not analog.
They are not for the analog outputs?

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post #18106 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
They are not for the analog outputs?
Of course they're for the analog outputs, but they operate within the DAC in the digital domain before the signal is converted to analog.
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post #18107 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
Of course they're for the analog outputs, but they operate within the DAC in the digital domain before the signal is converted to analog.
Of course; 0.5dB steps are digital.

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #18108 of 18480 Old 09-02-2014, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
I still get occasional Oppo glitches that I get occasionally when playing music files over my home network (the player locks up, will not respond to any remote or front panel keys other that PWR--once powered down and restarted, things generally will work without a hitch for the rest of the day, except once in a while I have to do a second powercycle immediately after the first one). But this can't be due to SMB, since the same thing happens with oShare and another DLNA server I have (Asset uPnP).
Try turning off the Gracenote look-up feature and see if that cures the issue.
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post #18109 of 18480 Old 09-03-2014, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Every pre/pro (and AV receiver) with multichannel analog input, should give us access to channel level trims, at the very least, plus a LFE/subwoofer gain control (special boost from 0 to 20dB in 0.5dB steps)
Yes, my AV receiver has that.
But I decided to put everything to 0 at the receiver analog settings, and enter it correctly on the Oppo

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post #18110 of 18480 Old 09-03-2014, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ Yes. Test both ways with a calibration disc to confirm. If your AVR has no level trims (or separate trims) for Analog audio pass through, a simple solution is to set the volume knob on the Sub according to what's needed for the Analog path. Then, for the HDMI path, use the Sub level trim in the AVR to compensate for any needed difference.
--Bob
What calibration disc would you recommend for this? I don't want to get more than one if possible.
I don't have any yet (besides the free AVSHD patterns, which were quite helpful so far, also during video calibration of my TV).

Panasonic TX-P50GT60 / Marantz SR5004 / 4 x KEF HTS 3001 SE (front + rear) + HTC 3001 SE (centre) + REL T-9 sub / Oppo BDP-103EU (MultiRegion+MultiZone)
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post #18111 of 18480 Old 09-03-2014, 06:06 AM
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^ I recommend using the LPCM test tracks on AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray, available from OPPO or direct from AIX.

To double-check the special case of DSD playback, use tracks 43-48 from Stay in Tune with PentaTone, SACD, available from Amazon.

Neither of these is for video calibration. Just audio.
--Bob
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post #18112 of 18480 Old 09-03-2014, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ I recommend using the LPCM test tracks on AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray, available from OPPO or direct from AIX.

To double-check the special case of DSD playback, use tracks 43-48 from Stay in Tune with PentaTone, SACD, available from Amazon.

Neither of these is for video calibration. Just audio.
--Bob
This AIX Audio Calibration also has special LPCM test tracks to measure the volume of a subwoofer? Pink noise from a subwoofer is always difficult to measure with SPL meter.
I am doing it now with low frequency sweeps that I got somewhere from the internet burned on a dvd-r.
For audio calibration, Spears & Munsil II is not that good?

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post #18113 of 18480 Old 09-03-2014, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post
I thought it was different for the 103 and 105. 105 is digital, 0.5db per step. 103 is analog?
They're both digital.

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post #18114 of 18480 Old 09-03-2014, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post
With regards to your comment about "not having a lot of gain" on the Oppo, doesn't that depend on what the input sensitivity of the component (on its rca inputs) you're connecting to the Oppo?
I didn't mean gain in regards to sensitivity matching capability. I meant it more in regards to the incremental steps. The big drop in voltage from full output (100) to (95) seems a bit drastic; thus my comment regarding if it's logarithmic or not... I'd have to incrementally step through the volume and plot the voltage output to know this. Sorry for the confusion.
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post #18115 of 18480 Old 09-03-2014, 10:21 AM
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Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread

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Originally Posted by bikinpunk View Post
I didn't mean gain in regards to sensitivity matching capability. I meant it more in regards to the incremental steps. The big drop in voltage from full output (100) to (95) seems a bit drastic; thus my comment regarding if it's logarithmic or not... I'd have to incrementally step through the volume and plot the voltage output to know this. Sorry for the confusion.

It's pretty much standard. Each volume step (increment/decrement) of the Oppo 10x players represents .5 dB change. It's standard logarithmic (dB's are related to voltage logarithmically)....every 6 db represents a halving (or doubling) of the voltage......So, on the Oppo 10x players, every 12 clicks/steps of volume will be half or double the voltage output.

Last edited by DanF8500; 09-03-2014 at 10:44 AM.
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post #18116 of 18480 Old 09-03-2014, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Daffietje View Post
This AIX Audio Calibration also has special LPCM test tracks to measure the volume of a subwoofer? Pink noise from a subwoofer is always difficult to measure with SPL meter.
I am doing it now with low frequency sweeps that I got somewhere from the internet burned on a dvd-r.
For audio calibration, Spears & Munsil II is not that good?
One note about the AIX disc - volume level matching between speakers is supposed to be done with band-limited pink noise (500 Hz to 2 kHz), and I've found the AIX disc does NOT have band-limited signals on it. When I play the volume level matching patterns from the AIX disc, the subwoofer engages, so it is obviously going down below 500 Hz. This doesn't happen with the Spears & Munsil II disc, which does have correct band-limited pink noise for the normal and LFE channels.

This only applies to the speaker level matching patterns.
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post #18117 of 18480 Old 09-03-2014, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by BobearQSI View Post
One note about the AIX disc - volume level matching between speakers is supposed to be done with band-limited pink noise (500 Hz to 2 kHz), and I've found the AIX disc does NOT have band-limited signals on it. When I play the volume level matching patterns from the AIX disc, the subwoofer engages, so it is obviously going down below 500 Hz. This doesn't happen with the Spears & Munsil II disc, which does have correct band-limited pink noise for the normal and LFE channels.

This only applies to the speaker level matching patterns.
Hmmm, thanks for the warning.
So I guess the AIX disc is not that good for audio calibration since it does not have a decent pink noise...

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post #18118 of 18480 Old 09-03-2014, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Daffietje View Post
Hmmm, thanks for the warning.
So I guess the AIX disc is not that good for audio calibration since it does not have a decent pink noise...
It's not the best choice for level matching. It can be used, but you'd need to do things like make sure your crossovers are all set and still operational, yet still disable the sub completely so that it doesn't contribute to the volume measured.

Also, most common SPL meters (and especially the cheap ones) are most accurate in that 500 - 2k range, and can lose their accuracy in the lower frequencies, so a band-limited pink noise is best for level matching.

Personally, I just use the receiver's Audyssey setup to do the level matching for me, but I'm all digital and that doesn't work with the Oppo's analog outs.
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post #18119 of 18480 Old 09-03-2014, 01:16 PM
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^If I use the band-limited pink noise from my receiver to volume match the subwoofer it is difficult to measure correctly since the SPL meter jumps around quite a lot. It does not do this for the other channels.
So I was hoping this AIX disc has some useful test tones for subwoofers where the SPL is more steady... But it seems it has not?

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Last edited by Daffietje; 09-03-2014 at 02:35 PM.
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post #18120 of 18480 Old 09-03-2014, 04:09 PM
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I got my 103 today. I find that the audio just doesn't have that oomph.
Watched the dark knight rises on the weekend via the xbone and then watched it again on the 103 and the oppo just misses that certain extra oomph in the sound.
Am I the only one experiencing this?
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