Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 667 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19981 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
It depends. ...What video system setup do you have, display?
I have Kuro 151.
But I plan to use the 103 or 103d in the new HT with plans to get the Sony VW300ES/350ES.
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post #19982 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by rabident View Post
I was under the impression LFE was its own discrete channel. Not the same as bass content already in the L-R channels, boosted 10db. There are scenes like crashes & explosions that suggest rumble, boom, rumble. These are rendered as rumble, dead silence, rumble. I can live with the mains not being able to boom like a sub, but it's distracting when the low frequency cuts out. The speakers do ok for bass heavy CD music. Didn't realize Dolby spec says to drop content when down mixing. It's not really mixing at that point, if it's just being dropped. It would have been nice to have the option, but I guess can't fault Oppo for following the specs.
You missed the point about how the LFE channel CANNOT be mixed into the L-R without overloading it. That's why we have the LFE channel in the first place - to allow VLF at higher levels than the L-R can tolerate without overloading (clipping). According to the specs, the LFE channel *should* contain audio that's duplicated from the main channels, its supposed to be a boost to the VLF. None of that accounts for goofy audio mixing that goes on, where special effects are found only in the LFE channel. That's outside the specs and is done for wow-factor, there's nothing to prevent a studio from doing that.
For music, the LFE channel has almost no practical function except for bass steering done in your processor to compensate for main speaker limitations.
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post #19983 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by groundtrac View Post
Very interesting. Do you have any leanings as to the stick version's performance? I have read the stick version is quite buggy with Youtube and other apps, perhaps with Netflix that the continuous streaming doesn't work, with long startup and load times, etc etc. I have a Roku 3 on another television that has been quite good, but this will be playing on my projector and the 1080p/24 Hz is desirable. Also, is 24Hz automatic or does it need to be selected?
The 24Hz output is automatic with Netflix content encoded as such. I really don't use the stick very often as my TiVo Roamio also does 24Hz with Netflix as well as with Amazon, both at 1080p, Amazon is only 720p on any model Roku. I haven't tried YouTube on the stick so I can't comment. The Stick also runs the older Netflix interface and menu with the red background versus the newer black background, image intensive interface. The quality of the content is no different. The Stick will also output Dolby Digital Plus(Roku 3 does as well) which both Netflix and Amazon use for the bulk of their multi-channel content, it could be all of it by now in fact.

To be honest, I bought the Stick without really giving it much thought other than it provided 24Hz from Netflix, not even thinking about the fact that my TiVo will do the same. Had I done my due diligence I would likely have not purchased the Stick, it was essentially an impulse buy.

If you have no other 24Hz source for Netflix/Amazon then I would go with the stick, as noted, the Roku 3 does not output 24Hz. If you have no other source for the second HDMI input(assuming you're using the first one for a TV source) then it might be worth the purchase.

If 24Hz is the primary driver then I would go with it, I don't know of any other device that would be less expensive that would also output Netflix at 24Hz. The integrated remote(Oppo remote) is also nice, though it doesn't make much difference to me as I use a Harmony 880 remote, it's all seamlessly integrated.

One concern might be support, given that the Netflix app is still running an older version of the interface while other devices have long since been updated to the newer version it makes one wonder if support for the Stick is done, what you have is what you get. As long as it continues to access and play the content though it should be fine. After all, who really cares that much about a menu system when it's the content we're really after?!
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post #19984 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by traderbc View Post
I have Kuro 151.
But I plan to use the 103 or 103d in the new HT with plans to get the Sony VW300ES/350ES.
If you have a half decent BD player now, why not wait until the 4K players come out possibly in Q4'15? I think the 300ES needs little help from an 103D.
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post #19985 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
You missed the point about how the LFE channel CANNOT be mixed into the L-R without overloading it. That's why we have the LFE channel in the first place - to allow VLF at higher levels than the L-R can tolerate without overloading (clipping). According to the specs, the LFE channel *should* contain audio that's duplicated from the main channels, its supposed to be a boost to the VLF. None of that accounts for goofy audio mixing that goes on, where special effects are found only in the LFE channel. That's outside the specs and is done for wow-factor, there's nothing to prevent a studio from doing that.
For music, the LFE channel has almost no practical function except for bass steering done in your processor to compensate for main speaker limitations.
I would only say that part of many folks' confusion comes from blurring the linguistic distinction between the LFE channel (the discrete .1 channel coming from the source) and the signal actually sent to the subwoofer, which is the LFE combined with the bass redirected by bass management (or "steering") functions in players or amplifiers.

Bass redirection is usually more necessary for the surround channels than for the mains, since the mains are more likely to have their own woofers - though it is also often said that redirecting even the mains' bass to the sub helps by taking that load off the amplifier. Of course, that also assumes a truly nondirectional bass, which may not be true - particularly for music. I compromise by sending the mains' deep bass out of both the sub and the mains.

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post #19986 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 01:04 PM
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Question usb hd limits

Ok, so I have been ripping to beat the band to a WD 2TB HD and was wondering will I bump up against a limit to the number of files the Oppo can index??? Also how do I remove songs from the playlist in the options menu? I can find no entry in the manual regarding this issue.


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post #19987 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by scannerman View Post
Ok, so I have been ripping to beat the band to a WD 2TB HD and was wondering will I bump up against a limit to the number of files the Oppo can index???.
There is, but nobody has actually found it yet. Its somewhere beyond 10,000 files.
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post #19988 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post
If you have a half decent BD player now, why not wait until the 4K players come out possibly in Q4'15?
I think the 300ES needs little help from an 103D.
Wise suggestion. ...Wait this fall, for the 113D.
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post #19989 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 03:34 PM
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And if it doesn't come out this Fall, hop in your time machine and pick up a 10x player back now. Sounds like a plan!
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post #19990 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 04:47 PM
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You missed the point about how the LFE channel CANNOT be mixed into the L-R without overloading it. That's why we have the LFE channel in the first place - to allow VLF at higher levels than the L-R can tolerate without overloading (clipping).
Can you walk me through how that is an absolute? Where does +10db get clipped? Wouldn't the volume I am listening at matter, as well as the headroom available in the amps & speakers at that point?

If L-R contains the same bass, but down 10db, and I can turn L-R up by 10db without clipping, why couldn't I turn it back down -10db and have room for +10db LFE mixed in?

Also, since LFE is just 1 channel, if it was spread over LCR, wouldn't that mean less than 10db per speaker since all 3 are working to reproduce the bass? More than normal, but each speaker wouldn't have to do +10db on its own.

I have a sub, but it doesn't look nice in the living room. I feel like the speakers are capable of reasonable amounts of bass for my listening level. Trying to understand if this is an Oppo / Dolby specs limitation that might be handled better with a dedicated pre-pro, or some inherient technical limitation that I'm not understanding that will make it impossible for any other pre-amp / processor as well.

 

 

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post #19991 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
And if it doesn't come out this Fall, hop in your time machine and pick up a 10x player back now. Sounds like a plan!
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Hey, if he has a decent Blu-ray player right now, there's no rush. The 103 will still be around.
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post #19992 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 05:18 PM
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Can you walk me through how that is an absolute? Where does +10db get clipped? Wouldn't the volume I am listening at matter, as well as the headroom available in the amps & speakers at that point?

If L-R contains the same bass, but down 10db, and I can turn L-R up by 10db without clipping, why couldn't I turn it back down -10db and have room for +10db LFE mixed in?

Also, since LFE is just 1 channel, if it was spread over LCR, wouldn't that mean less than 10db per speaker since all 3 are working to reproduce the bass? More than normal, but each speaker wouldn't have to do +10db on its own.

I have a sub, but it doesn't look nice in the living room. I feel like the speakers are capable of reasonable amounts of bass for my listening level. Trying to understand if this is an Oppo / Dolby specs limitation that might be handled better with a dedicated pre-pro, or some inherient technical limitation that I'm not understanding that will make it impossible for any other pre-amp / processor as well.
Here's the deal: Full scale on an Analog output is designed around the bulk of the sound -- the mid-ranges. There's headroom for peak sounds, but not that much. The problem is that impactful bass needs higher volume than that. If you put that bass into the normal speaker channels you will clip the pre-amp because the effects bass is so much louder than the bulk of the sound the preamp is designed to handle.

So instead, you make a special channel just for effects bass, and you record it 10dB down compared to everything else. That lets you put 10dB more bass in the channel without clipping a preamp. But it means you need to add 10dB boost to that bass to get it back up to the desired effects volume. That's done in the amp (in the Subwoofer).

Now, suppose you want, instead, to mix the effects bass and the normal speaker channel together. You can't do that simply by mixing them unaltered because the effects bass is recorded to a different standard (10dB down), and once mixed you can't separate them again so you can't boost JUST the effects bass.

Instead you have to LOWER the normal speaker channel down to the same standard -- 10dB down, and then mix them. But even that is not enough, because the effects bass full scale (loud bass recorded 10dB down) is designed to max out what the preamp can accept. So you have to reduce the combo EVEN MORE. What's done is that the effects bass gets reduced 5dB and the normal speaker content gets reduced 15dB (which makes them match) and then THOSE two are mixed. So now you need 15dB boost to get the desired volume for the combo.

OK, that's doable but when you do that you are now boosting the noise floor of the normal speaker content as well. I.e., when you reduce it 15dB the noise floor doesn't also get reduced -- it's still the same floor. So when you boost it back 15dB the normal speaker content now has 15dB more noise in it as well -- you've amped up the noise floor.

So why doesn't that apply to effects bass as a separate channel? It does! But the effects bass channel is filtered so that it only has bass in it and bass noise is essentially inconsequential -- or much more so than mid-range and treble noise.

The point is, you really don't want to lower the normal speaker content and then boost it back up again. Do that only with bass.
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post #19993 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Hey, if he has a decent Blu-ray player right now, there's no rush. The 103 will still be around.
I think the point is that suggesting that someone wait for a product that does not exist, and in fact may never exist, is not helpful.
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post #19994 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 05:33 PM
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Or alternatively, as soon as 4K players come out, you'll have the same argument about waiting for the NEXT generation of 4K players which, by that time, will be on the horizon and "clearly superior".

(I fully expect the first crop of 4K players to come complete with factory installed gotchas -- it's just the nature of the beast.)

Instead evaluate the products available now against what's important to you -- NOW. If the products currently shipping do what you want, buy a good one. If not, don't buy even the best one.
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post #19995 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 05:56 PM
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What Bob said, plus if you buy from Oppo you have a 30 day return period if it doesn't do what you want -- and if a "better" player comes down the pike, the Oppo players hold their value really well. Just check eBay...
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Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
I think the point is that suggesting that someone wait for a product that does not exist, and in fact may never exist, is not helpful.
Your delusional if you don't think 4k players are coming sooner than later. I'm betting 2015!
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post #19997 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cdnscg View Post
Your delusional if you don't think 4k players are coming sooner than later. I'm betting 2015!
You're missing the point, there is no such thing as an Oppo 113D at the current time and no indication from Oppo that there will be one released this year, and if it will even be called a 113D.

I didn't say anything about 4K capability.
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post #19998 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 06:41 PM
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You're missing the point, there is no such thing as an Oppo 113D at the current time and no indication from Oppo that there will be one released this year, and if it will even be called a 113D.

I didn't say anything about 4K capability.
My apologies I thought you meant that 4K players may never be realized. Sorry
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post #19999 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 07:00 PM
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I think the point is that suggesting that someone wait for a product that does not exist, and in fact may never exist, is not helpful.
People do understand the real meaning though. HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 and 4K Blu-ray players are coming anyway.
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post #20000 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 07:06 PM
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Each one of us we have our own view on what is and what's next. And based on what we learn we express our own free right to suggest our best advice.
Everything is good as long that we can all respect that.
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post #20001 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 07:41 PM
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People do understand the real meaning though. HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 and 4K Blu-ray players are coming anyway.
See my previous post.
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The answer is easy and simple: buy the best, current Oppo player you can afford that is compatible with the rest of your equipment. When the new generation Oppo comes out, buy that right away and sell the other - so on and so forth. Don't try to time the dvd player market and don't bother looking at other brands. Plain and simple and you will be up to snuff at all times.

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post #20003 of 21469 Old 01-27-2015, 08:11 PM
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See my previous post.
Yes I know; you want real factual confirmation, and no unrelated data from superficial interpolation*. ...I very gotcha the first time, no need to worry.

* Expectation, anticipation, ...

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Do you have a Blu-ray player now? ...Is it still working?

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I have a question about the Oppo MediaControl App for Android.

Does the shuffle function work ?

I have tried this various times but the songs in the folder still continue to play in normal sequence.
Anyone able to help ?
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post #20005 of 21469 Old 01-28-2015, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by scannerman View Post
OK, so I have been ripping to beat the band to a WD 2TB HD and was wondering will I bump up against a limit to the number of files the Oppo can index??? Also how do I remove songs from the playlist in the options menu? I can find no entry in the manual regarding this issue.
Same way that you added them to the Playlist.

I know that you're using a Windows-type folder/subfolder structure. When you're using the Oppo's Music function to view a display of the music files within a folder, any of those files that've been put into a Playlist will have a check-mark in front of its name. Highlight that file, and press the "Option" button on the Oppo remote. At the bottom of the display screen, one of the listed options will be "Remove".

The same procedure also applies with an actual Playlist displayed.
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Cool Datchu Terry??

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Same way that you added them to the Playlist.

I know that you're using a Windows-type folder/subfolder structure. When you're using the Oppo's Music function to view a display of the music files within a folder, any of those files that've been put into a Playlist will have a check-mark in front of its name. Highlight that file, and press the "Option" button on the Oppo remote. At the bottom of the display screen, one of the listed options will be "Remove".

The same procedure also applies with an actual Playlist displayed.
Thanks for the info!!

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post #20007 of 21469 Old 01-28-2015, 05:48 AM
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Datchu Terry??? he,he,he!!


Thanks for the info...too easy!!


Mike

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post #20008 of 21469 Old 01-28-2015, 05:49 AM
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Red face

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datchu terry??? He,he,he!!


Thanks for the info...too easy!!


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post #20009 of 21469 Old 01-28-2015, 07:08 AM
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I just hope the next OPPO comes with a cassette and 8-track player. I want to listen to some of my old tapes.
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post #20010 of 21469 Old 01-28-2015, 07:23 AM
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I just hope the next OPPO comes with a cassette and 8-track player. I want to listen to some of my old tapes.
You've touched on an interesting point. I wonder what the future holds if the advancements are as great from the 8 track to present BD player delivery. Will they look at the BD player with the same chuckle I have when thinking of the 8 track
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