Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 760 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22771 of 23782 Old 01-18-2016, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
I have an Oppo (103D actually) connected via optical cable to a Marantz SR7002 AVR.

Is there a better way to connect the Oppo to the Marantz for better HT sound?
Using HDMI would allow you to get the HD audio formats (Dolby True HD, DTS HD Master Audio) to your AVR without resorting to the lossy versions. It will also allow you to get audio from SACD's.
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post #22772 of 23782 Old 01-18-2016, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
Using HDMI would allow you to get the HD audio formats (Dolby True HD, DTS HD Master Audio) to your AVR without resorting to the lossy versions. It will also allow you to get audio from SACD's.
I can see my Marantz show DTS or Dolby Digital when using the optical though. So it does recognize the various formats.
Does that still mean it's lossy compared to using HDMI?

Or is it just the higher end Dolby True HD or DTS HD Master Audio that wouldn't pass through optical but yet regular Dolby Digital and DTS would?


On a related note, is there any way to get the audio via HDMI but the video through a separate HDMI cable from the Oppo to my projector?
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post #22773 of 23782 Old 01-18-2016, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
If you mean the 103D, then yes, depending on how high you turn up Darbee, you may see a difference. If you mean the 103 NOT D, then the basic 2D 1080p blu-ray output should be indistinguishable between the two.

Using the dual outputs is not too tough but it means either two HDMI runs to your projector OR sending all the output from your receiver to the OPPO and letting the oppo send everything to the projector.

Regarding the relative merits of where and when to use Darbee, it's hard to predict what you will like and want, but asking the 103D thread instead of the 103 thread will probably elicit more answers.
I was comparing the Oppo BDP-83 to Oppo 103 & 103D. If I understand you correctly, after 6 years or so that the 83 came out, you are saying the 103 isn't any better than the 83 for 2D 1080p sources? That surprises me quite frankly.

I would suspect that using Darbee with the 103 will depend on the source material. I have the Epson LS10k and it has various resolution features, including 4k eShift. I'm quite certain that if I used Darbee, I would find no use for any resolution features on the Epson, especially 4k eShift. I'm also curious about how well Darbee works with 3D 1080p. I figured those of you that decided on the 103, against the 103D, have your reasons. I'm ok with spending another $100 for the Darbee if I'll find times to use & appreciate it, but otherwise, I don't need to waste my money on this feature. P.S. I ask here as opposed to the 103D thread because I would think they will try to convince me to get it.
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post #22774 of 23782 Old 01-18-2016, 04:29 PM
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Sittler27,
Optical and Coax -- the "S/PDIF" connections -- can carry traditional, lossy Dolby Digital and DTS bitstreams, as found on SD-DVD disc, but can not carry the lossless Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA Bitstreams found on Blu-ray discs, nor high-bitrate, multi-channel LPCM digital audio tracks. This is due to bandwidth constraints.

(Every Blu-ray disc includes a "compatibility" audio track which CAN be sent over Optical or Coax -- typically DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 -- and that's what you will get if you listen to Blu-ray through those connections.)

"Lossy" in this context, means that the LPCM digital audio masters sent into the encoder in the studio can not be fully retrieved by the decoder of the DD or DTS Bitstream at home. The parts that are lost are cleverly chosen to minimize the odds you will be able to hear the loss. "Lossless" in this context means what goes into the decoder in the studio comes out bit-for-bit identically from the decoder when you play the bitstream. "Lossless" is not a guarantee of quality. If the studio masters are garbage to begin with, a lossless track will reproduce that garbage exactly. But no better. You are at the mercy of the audio mixing engineers. If they take pride in their work, and if the studios are willing to pay for that pride, a lossless bitstream should sound better than a lossy bitstream of the same content. When played into quality gear.

The S/PDIF connections also can't carry content which is restricted by licensing -- basically due to lack of copy protection. So for example you can't play SACD disc content over Optical or Coax, not even at reduced audio sampling rate.
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post #22775 of 23782 Old 01-18-2016, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by lancenell View Post
I was comparing the Oppo BDP-83 to Oppo 103 & 103D. If I understand you correctly, after 6 years or so that the 83 came out, you are saying the 103 isn't any better than the 83 for 2D 1080p sources? That surprises me quite frankly.
What sort of improvement would you expect, and by what means? How can a 1080p source be made better on a 1080p display?

Darbee can do that, for a reasonable expectation of "better". Any other sharpening destroys fine detail in the image. You could alter the colors... to what?

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post #22776 of 23782 Old 01-18-2016, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
. . . .
On a related note, is there any way to get the audio via HDMI but the video through a separate HDMI cable from the Oppo to my projector?
Yes. Wire HDMI 1 out of the OPPO to your projector, and HDMI 2 out of the OPPO to your AVR. Set "SPLIT A/V" mode in the OPPO. See the Manual.

Note that HDMI 2 will also carry video. That's just the way HDMI works. Audio is not a separate signal. It is embedded in video and there must be video on the cable -- even if just a black image -- to carry audio. The converse is not true. HDMI 1 will carry only video. Audio will be muted on HDMI 1.

Note that dual HDMI cabling like this is not normally needed. NORMALLY you just cable HDMI 1 to your AVR and HDMI from the AVR to your projector. The reason for dual HDMI cabling as described is if the video signal you want to send to your projector can not be handled by your AVR. Typically this is due to 3D video.
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post #22777 of 23782 Old 01-18-2016, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
Sittler27,
Optical and Coax -- the "S/PDIF" connections -- can carry traditional, lossy Dolby Digital and DTS bitstreams, as found on SD-DVD disc, but can not carry the lossless Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA Bitstreams found on Blu-ray discs, nor high-bitrate, multi-channel LPCM digital audio tracks. This is due to bandwidth constraints.

(Every Blu-ray disc includes a "compatibility" audio track which CAN be sent over Optical or Coax -- typically DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 -- and that's what you will get if you listen to Blu-ray through those connections.)

"Lossy" in this context, means that the LPCM digital audio masters sent into the encoder in the studio can not be fully retrieved by the decoder of the DD or DTS Bitstream at home. The parts that are lost are cleverly chosen to minimize the odds you will be able to hear the loss. "Lossless" in this context means what goes into the decoder in the studio comes out bit-for-bit identically from the decoder when you play the bitstream. "Lossless" is not a guarantee of quality. If the studio masters are garbage to begin with, a lossless track will reproduce that garbage exactly. But no better. You are at the mercy of the audio mixing engineers. If they take pride in their work, and if the studios are willing to pay for that pride, a lossless bitstream should sound better than a lossy bitstream of the same content. When played into quality gear.

The S/PDIF connections also can't carry content which is restricted by licensing -- basically due to lack of copy protection. So for example you can't play SACD disc content over Optical or Coax, not even at reduced audio sampling rate.
--Bob
Yes, Lossless is compression of the original data but perfect reconstruction of the data to its original state, however Lossy is only an approximation to the original. I'll take Lossless in most cases, certainly for pristine sources. Even though Lossless won't compress down as much as Lossy, because storage costs have come down so much, I prefer to have exact copies of the original assuming I have decent playback equipment. If the original is garbage, than mp3 (lossy type compression) should do the trick.
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post #22778 of 23782 Old 01-18-2016, 04:59 PM
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^ In theory a lossy compression of a garbage track may sound noticeably worse due to the garbage track not meeting the assumptions that are built into the lossy encoder algorithm as to what can be discarded without the listener noticing. Of course if the garbage is godawful enough, any cruft added by the encode/decode pair will likely be masked -- present but not distinguishable from the overall pain level. And yes, even if that means resorting to MP3.

Or the opposite might be true.

Think of it this way: If the masters are bad enough, silence will sound better. Even though that is the ultimate, "lossy" encode.
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post #22779 of 23782 Old 01-18-2016, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
Yes. Wire HDMI 1 out of the OPPO to your projector, and HDMI 2 out of the OPPO to your AVR. Set "SPLIT A/V" mode in the OPPO. See the Manual.

Note that HDMI 2 will also carry video. That's just the way HDMI works. Audio is not a separate signal. It is embedded in video and there must be video on the cable -- even if just a black image -- to carry audio. The converse is not true. HDMI 1 will carry only video. Audio will be muted on HDMI 1.

Note that dual HDMI cabling like this is not normally needed. NORMALLY you just cable HDMI 1 to your AVR and HDMI from the AVR to your projector. The reason for dual HDMI cabling as described is if the video signal you want to send to your projector can not be handled by your AVR. Typically this is due to 3D video.
--Bob
Wow. Glad I posted the original question: I've had it on optical hookup for two months since I setup my new HT!

Now, I would have originally set it up via HDMI, but after deconstructing my HT for the new projector/screen, when I hooked it all up again, I couldn't get the Marantz to pass HDMI audio (only video). I tried every setting in the Marantz and nothing was working, so I just got fed up and connected the Oppo (and Tivo box too) to the Marantz via optical since I could run HDMI for video directly from each of those devices to the projector.

Now I have to look at this again. Thanks for the info.
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post #22780 of 23782 Old 01-18-2016, 05:18 PM
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^ You may need help on the Marantz owner's thread here for your model.
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post #22781 of 23782 Old 01-18-2016, 05:51 PM
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FYI, Oppo will be releasing a 4k BD player in the fall. This news coming from a tech via email from them.

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post #22782 of 23782 Old 01-18-2016, 06:31 PM
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^ You may need help on the Marantz owner's thread here for your model.
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Yes, I think I do. Just spent an hour testing HDMI cables and inputs to switch over.

Seems all I get via anything fed to my projector and out from my Marantz is a green screen (with video - HDMI handshake issue) and no audio either from the source to the Marantz.
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post #22783 of 23782 Old 01-18-2016, 07:12 PM
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FYI, Oppo will be releasing a 4k BD player in the fall. This news coming from a tech via email from them.
As in available for purchase?

Did they give you any indication of price, or price range?
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post #22784 of 23782 Old 01-18-2016, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
What sort of improvement would you expect, and by what means? How can a 1080p source be made better on a 1080p display?

Darbee can do that, for a reasonable expectation of "better". Any other sharpening destroys fine detail in the image. You could alter the colors... to what?

-Bill
1) Improvements such as in Video processing via more current chip technology -- such as QDEO or perhaps VRDO Clearview processing, video enhancement, video clipping, luma/chroma resolution, noise reduction.

2) 4k eShift display

3) I would dial up darbee to get better detail, without destroying the intention of the image. I'm just not sure how the Epson LS10k compares in it's video enhancement options which are stepped, not dialed in like the darbee. 4K eShift works quite well, and I think that it would be overkill to be using the darbee with eShift. Has anyone tested this combo?

4) Sorry...not sure what you meant by altering colors.
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post #22785 of 23782 Old 01-19-2016, 02:15 AM
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My Oppo BDP-103 has been unstable the last month, and sometimes hanging/freezing when I have external hdd connected (exFat).
My friend has also the same thing with his, also exFat.
I suspect it is related to the latest firmware.
Is this a known fault for the current latest firmware?

I also have a new "feature" of subtitles coming twice sometimes when playing mkv.

I hope Oppo does not leave us hanging here with critical bugs when working on the next generation players.
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post #22786 of 23782 Old 01-19-2016, 04:05 AM
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I also have a new "feature" of subtitles coming twice sometimes when playing mkv.
I have reported that also.

I have not tested exFAT.

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I hope Oppo does not leave us hanging here with critical bugs when working on the next generation players.
For best results, submit your problem reports directly to OPPO.

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post #22787 of 23782 Old 01-19-2016, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rajapruk View Post
My Oppo BDP-103 has been unstable the last month, and sometimes hanging/freezing when I have external hdd connected (exFat).
My friend has also the same thing with his, also exFat.
I suspect it is related to the latest firmware.
Is this a known fault for the current latest firmware?
I have a couple of 500GB 2.5" USB powered HDD's formatted to exFAT, I'll have to give them a try with the latest firmware and report back

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post #22788 of 23782 Old 01-19-2016, 10:47 AM
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If I understand you correctly, after 6 years or so that the 83 came out, you are saying the 103 isn't any better than the 83 for 2D 1080p sources?
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Improvements such as in Video processing via more current chip technology -- such as QDEO or perhaps VRDO Clearview processing, video enhancement, video clipping, luma/chroma resolution, noise reduction.
Well, the 103 definitely loads 2d 1080p Blu-rays a lot faster than the 83.

I've also read that the noise reduction of the 103 is better than on the 83. What people are saying that if you don't engage the picture adjustment controls, most Blu-ray players are going to be almost identical in 1080p quality.

If you have a poor quality BR, the 103 might do a better job at cleaning it up by engaging the processing controls. I personally haven't used these features on Blu-rays, only DVDs.

Plus, there are a lot more enhancements on 103 over the 83 other than 1080p playback. More media file format support, SMB support, higher quality analog outputs, to name a few.
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post #22789 of 23782 Old 01-19-2016, 11:07 AM
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There's really not much that can be done to a 1080p source. Unlike with DVD, you aren't rescaling or de-interlacing; you're merely passing the signal along to the TV. The exception would be if your target were a UHD TV where you would be upscaling. That is essentially why you can't really expect the 10x series to do little, if any, better than the 83.
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^ What can be done to the 1080p content is to screw it up: Clipping whites, crushing blacks, or mishandling the color space math for example. Since neither the 83 nor the 10x players do those sorts of mistakes, 1080p content should look pretty much identical between them.
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As in available for purchase?

Did they give you any indication of price, or price range?
I didn't bother asking a price. I would think it would be relatively close to the current models though. Yes is the answer to your first question.

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Well, the 103 definitely loads 2d 1080p Blu-rays a lot faster than the 83.

I've also read that the noise reduction of the 103 is better than on the 83. What people are saying that if you don't engage the picture adjustment controls, most Blu-ray players are going to be almost identical in 1080p quality.

If you have a poor quality BR, the 103 might do a better job at cleaning it up by engaging the processing controls. I personally haven't used these features on Blu-rays, only DVDs.

Plus, there are a lot more enhancements on 103 over the 83 other than 1080p playback. More media file format support, SMB support, higher quality analog outputs, to name a few.
I get what everyone is saying about passing along the data and letting the display make best use of it. The 83 does take time to load certain BluRays, and it would be nice to see them load faster, near load times as my DVD player.

What seems most interesting, is the upscaling of DVD 480P, 480i & 1080i to HD. I can't see any improvement of the 83 over my Denon 5910, and have continued to use the Denon for DVD. However, it sounds like the 103 may be an improvement in PQ over the Denon.
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post #22793 of 23782 Old 01-19-2016, 06:17 PM
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I didn't bother asking a price. I would think it would be relatively close to the current models though. Yes is the answer to your first question.
It seems costly for me to pick up the 103 right now if a 4K unit is coming out in the Fall. I heard they were probably not be available til 2017, and I didn't want to wait a year. I should be able to wait till Fall of 2016. It's just tough because I've been so looking forward to be watching 3D movies at home. There may be some other subtle improvements & options over the 103 as well, but right now of course that's just speculation. I love the idea of having so much functionality in one unit. It's amazing how far electronic's manufacturers have come, and they have really stepped up their game & thought about customers future needs.
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post #22794 of 23782 Old 01-19-2016, 06:40 PM
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^ Keep in mind the new, 4K, UHD Blu-ray spec does *NOT* include 3D. To watch 3D, you will still need to play "normal" Blu-ray 3D discs.

3D support (for "normal" Blu-ray disc playback) is optional in UHD Blu-ray players.

-----------------------------

Another thing to keep in mind is that OPPO's last generation of "normal" Blu-ray players are likely to retain their resale value. Just as their last generation of SD-DVD players did when Blu-ray came out.

Meanwhile, the first generation of UHD Blu-ray players is likely to become obsolete pretty durned fast. For example, the ones announced at CES this month don't support Dolby Vision HDR (an optional feature of the UHD Blu-ray spec). Why? Because the chips ain't ready yet.

These are the days that try early adopters' souls.....
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I'm pretty sure chips are ready already it is just game what all manufactures plays in those days. Why not to sell now expensive 4k players with limits and then make full 4K HDR next year or even earlier. It is just business what is big trend right now, no matter what happened every year needs to be a new model even if is sometimes worst then year before like Sony TV's 2014 vs 2015 (some models).

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Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread

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Originally Posted by retro124 View Post
I'm pretty sure chips are ready already it is just game what all manufactures plays in those days. Why not to sell now expensive 4k players with limits and then make full 4K HDR next year or even earlier. It is just business what is big trend right now, no matter what happened every year needs to be a new model even if is sometimes worst then year before like Sony TV's 2014 vs 2015 (some models).

http://www.digitaltvnews.net/?p=26842


Sigma Designs shipping first UHD TV chip with Dolby Vision

ass Production of Industry’s First UHD TV Chip With Dolby Vision(TM)
FREMONT, CA and LAS VEGAS, NV–(Marketwired – Jan 5, 2016) – CES Las Vegas — Sigma Designs (NASDAQ: SIGM), a leading provider of intelligent system-on-chip (SoC) solutions focused on Internet of Things (IoT), Smart TV and media connectivity markets, has begun delivering volume quantities of its STV7701 Ultra HD High Dynamic Range (HDR). This powerful single-chip solution is the only product shipping in the market today that supports multiple HDR standards including Dolby Vision, BD UHD HDR, and HDR 10 to enable the most amazing UHD visual experience available. The new UHD SoC comes with software optimized for over-the-top (OTT) video streaming services including Dolby Vision with a broad range of advanced capabilities for premium Smart TV offerings. STV7701 together with a companion Ultra HD FRC chip can provide an ideal solution for UHD 120Hz Smart TV.

Dolby Vision augments the fidelity of Ultra HD and HD video signals for over-the-top (OTT) online streaming, video on demand (VOD), broadcast, Ultra HD Blu-ray, and gaming applications. Today’s state-of-the-art cameras already capture more visual information than current TVs can display, but with Dolby Vision, creative teams can finally have confidence that their content can be reproduced faithfully on Dolby Vision capable televisions.

“We are thrilled to collaborate with Sigma Designs to integrate Dolby Vision into its Ultra HD chipset solutions. Sigma Designs will bring the Dolby Vision experience to OTT streaming services and smart TVs, delivering a dramatically different visual experience with astonishing brightness and incomparable contrast,” said Giles Baker, Senior Vice President, Broadcast Business Group, Dolby Laboratories.

High Dynamic Range technology has emerged as a disruptive technology over the past year due to the significant enhancement it delivers to the television viewing experience. Over the past decade, televisions have seen large strides in resolution (number of pixels on the screen) as well as refresh rates (pixels per second), but HDR addresses the “third pillar of image quality” — the information content per pixel. This third pillar directly addresses the amazing gradients of brightness and color that the human eye is capable of perceiving but heretofore never delivered.

Key capabilities supported on this leading edge platform include:

Ultra HD (UHD) Single Chip for 60Hz Smart TV
4K Ultra HD (UHD) resolution with High Dynamic Range and Wide Color Gamut capabilities include Dolby Vision, HDR 10, SMPTE 2084 and 2086
512 Zones 2D Dimming
HEVC (H.265) UHD 10 bit video decoding at 60fps
Google VP9 UHD decoding
Trusted Execution Environment and ARM Trust Zone support for content protection
Integrated UHD HDMI v2 receivers with HDCPv2.2 content protection
Integrated Civolution NexGuard forensic UHD watermarking Technology to curb content piracy
Support for Android and Linux operating systems, as well as pre-integrated software for TV middleware, DRM, HTML5 browser engine and other software packages to build TV sets or other display products
Integration with industry partners — notably Google VP9 Technology and Civolution watermarking — also helps to make the STV7701 an ideal solution for next generation big-screen TV sets, providing the enhanced imaging and protection required for premium UHD services, including intensive high-motion content.

The new STV7701 single-chip solution is HDMI 2.0 capable and includes high-performance Quad Core ARM CPUs and Quad Core GPUs technology that enable outstanding video processing, advanced connectivity and OTT services for the next generation smart TV. To enable fast time to market, STV7701 comes with production-proven software solutions for all major geographical regions, as well as an integrated software stack for broadcast, broadband and in-home networking.

Sigma is demonstrating the first 4K Ultra HD Dolby Vision TV with Dolby ATMOS, powered by the Sigma Designs SoC at CES 2016 in Las Vegas, January 6-9 in the Westgate Hotel, suite 2992.

For more information about Sigma Designs, visit www.sigmadesigns.com.
Also

Dolby Vision Logo
Dolby Announces New Partnerships for Dolby Vision Ultra HD Video Chipsets

By Steven Cohen
Sep 04, 2015
Several companies will offer Dolby Vision SoCs for various devices.

Dolby has announced partnerships with Realtek, HiSilicon and MediaTek to provide Dolby Vision System-on-Chips (SoCs) for multiple playback devices. Through these new SoCs, the Dolby Vision technology can be incorporated into Ultra HD set-top-boxes, Smart TVs, Over-the-Top (OTT) online streaming, Ultra HD Blu-ray players and Digital Media Adapters (DMAs).

Dolby Vision is a video technology that uses high dynamic range and wide color gamuts to create and display content with superior brightness, contrast, and pop. Dolby Vision VS10 also has the benefit of being a universal HDR playback solution, allowing the tech to support Dolby Vision content and other HDR formats based on the SMPTE ST 2084 standard. VIZIO will be the first company to release Dolby Vision Ultra HD TVs with its upcoming Reference Series displays. Likewise, Chinese manufacturers TCL and Skyworth have also announced plans to release Dolby Vision products. Meanwhile, Warner Bros., VUDU, and Netflix will all be providing Dolby Vision graded content.

Specific products that will use the new Realtek, HiSilicon and MediaTek SoCs have not been announced yet.


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post #22797 of 23782 Old 01-19-2016, 08:27 PM
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^ Umm, I believe that's a chip for a TV, not a player.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ Umm, I believe that's a chip for a TV, not a player.
--Bob

Two different chips Sigma is uhdtv the mediatek is bluray and set top box. I apologize it's two different copy and paste.


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post #22799 of 23782 Old 01-20-2016, 06:20 AM
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^ It would make more sense to discuss UHD player topics in the next Oppo BR player thread.
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post #22800 of 23782 Old 01-20-2016, 10:06 AM
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As far as I know it, the 103 has a Netflix application built in. (??) I never tried to use it because Netflix used not to be available in the country where I live. However I see that Netflix has now launched a service here starting this month. My question is does the Netflix application work? And is it any good? On the Oppo? I don't want to sign up for an account with Netflix if it is not going to add value for me on the Oppo player..
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