Official OPPO BDP-103 Owner's Thread - Page 829 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #24841 of 24854 Old 10-15-2017, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Hi Bob,

Is this a feature or a bug? If the former, how?

Jeff
Feature.

When Crossover is engaged additional "steered bass" from the main speaker channels is summed with the LFE content going out on the Subwoofer Analog output.

LFE content is recorded -10dB down so that there is headroom for recording *LOUD* bass without risk of clipping the preamp input that receives the signal. This means that +10dB of Sub Boost needs to be applied external to the player so that the Sub content (LFE in this case) is matched in level with the main speakers content. Typically AVRs do this, but if necessary it can also be done by raising the volume knob on the Sub itself to achieve the proper level.

But with Crossover engaged, additional headroom is needed so that the combo of LFE and steered bass still does not have the potential of clipping the preamp's input. So an additional -5dB of attenuation is applied. This means that when Crossover is engaged the required Sub Boost -- still external to the player -- is +15dB.
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post #24842 of 24854 Old 10-15-2017, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
Actually what happens during Crossover processing is:

LFE > -5 dB attenuation
Steered Bass > -15dB attenuation
Summed
Result is in balance and needs +15dB Sub Boost external to the player.

In the case of DSD, the LFE component, if present, is given -10dB attenuation in the player so that the same Sub Boost that works for everything else also works for LFE. This is true WHETHER OR NOT you are using DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion. However, when you are using DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion, Crossover processing is not possible, so the output is treated as if you had all speakers set to Large -- meaning +10 dB Sub Boost is needed external to the player and the main speaker channels retain their full frequency range.

--Bob
Fantastic! I wonder if any of the other universal players on the market are this smart. Thanks for the follow up.
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post #24843 of 24854 Old 10-18-2017, 06:09 PM
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I'm experimenting with using the 103 as a preamp, connected directly to a multichannel power amp via analog outs. Yes, I know it's not designed to be used that way. The only "amp" I've tried so far is a vintage Marantz stereo receiver, with the Oppo's FL/FR analog outs connected to the "main in" of the Marantz. With the Oppo's volume control at 100%, the volume through the Marantz was just barely loud enough. The "main in" goes straight to the power amp section, so there's no volume control on the receiver in this configuration.

I'm contemplating using a pair of Adcom stereo power amps to power my 4.0 setup (actually 4.1 but my subs are powered and can be fed from the Oppo's sub output directly). The power amps have an input sensitivity of 0.97V. I don't have the amps available yet to test this out.

But several of you have claimed in this thread that "many" folks are successfully driving power amps directly. If you are, can you please identify which amplifiers can be successfully paired to the 103? I trust this thread would be an acceptable place to do this, since it'd directly related the 103. I might even suggest adding the info to post #1 for reference.

And a quick question, based on something I read earlier about 30 pages back....is the 105 more likely to work than the 103 in a setup like this?

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post #24844 of 24854 Old 10-19-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by filmnut View Post
I'm experimenting with using the 103 as a preamp, connected directly to a multichannel power amp via analog outs. Yes, I know it's not designed to be used that way. The only "amp" I've tried so far is a vintage Marantz stereo receiver, with the Oppo's FL/FR analog outs connected to the "main in" of the Marantz. With the Oppo's volume control at 100%, the volume through the Marantz was just barely loud enough. The "main in" goes straight to the power amp section, so there's no volume control on the receiver in this configuration.

I'm contemplating using a pair of Adcom stereo power amps to power my 4.0 setup (actually 4.1 but my subs are powered and can be fed from the Oppo's sub output directly). The power amps have an input sensitivity of 0.97V. I don't have the amps available yet to test this out.
While my AVR was out for repair, I used a 200-wpc Carver m1.0t solid state amp to power my front L&R speakers, with the 103 as a preamp. It was an audible downgrade--the best word I could use to describe it was "coarse." I won't blame this on the amp, it doesn't sound that way when my AVR or a Carver C-1 functions as the preamp with the Carver amplifier.

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post #24845 of 24854 Old 10-19-2017, 12:11 PM
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^ That would suggest the Volume setting you were using in the OPPO was clipping the inputs of the amp.

This could also be due to an impedance mismatch (amp inputs not sufficiently high impedance for this type of use).
—Bob

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post #24846 of 24854 Old 10-19-2017, 03:33 PM
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^ That would suggest the Volume setting you were using in the OPPO was clipping the inputs of the amp.

This could also be due to an impedance mismatch (amp inputs not sufficiently high impedance for this type of use).
—Bob
I never played it that loudly; seems unlikely I was clipping the inputs. The Carver m1.0t has an input impedance of 100k ohms; does that tell you anything?

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post #24847 of 24854 Old 10-19-2017, 05:22 PM
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I never played it that loudly; seems unlikely I was clipping the inputs. The Carver m1.0t has an input impedance of 100k ohms; does that tell you anything?
What is the sensitivity of the carver input? What is the impedance and output voltage of the Oppo output?

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post #24848 of 24854 Old 10-19-2017, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
What is the sensitivity of the carver input? What is the impedance and output voltage of the Oppo output?
I don't know about the Carver, but the Oppo's analog outs have an impedance of 100 ohms, with 2.1V RMS peak output voltage.

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post #24849 of 24854 Old 10-19-2017, 05:46 PM
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What is the sensitivity of the carver input? What is the impedance and output voltage of the Oppo output?
Input sensitivity, per the Carver service manual, is 1.3v RMS for rated power into 8 ohms at 1 kHz, also listed as 95mV rms for 1W output into 8 ohms at 1 kHz.

Oppo doesn't have this information in its manual, and I haven't located a review with this information.

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post #24850 of 24854 Old 10-19-2017, 06:03 PM
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I never played it that loudly; seems unlikely I was clipping the inputs. The Carver m1.0t has an input impedance of 100k ohms; does that tell you anything?
If both units are operating correctly, It should work to use the Oppo to drive the Carver amp.

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post #24851 of 24854 Old 10-19-2017, 06:05 PM
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If both units are operating correctly, It should work to use the Oppo to drive the Carver amp.
As far as I know, both units work correctly, and I have had no problems with either of them (the Carver was repaired and brought up to factory spec just before Carver Corp shut down, and it sounds great with either my Denon AVR or the Carver C-1 preamp). So it "worked" to use the Oppo 103 as a preamp with the Carver amp, but it didn't sound very good.

AT&T U-Verse Northeast Ohio

Denon x4000, Carver m1.0t, Samsung LED TV, B&W 704 mains, two M&K subwoofers, Oppo 103, Roku 2, etc.
Headphone system: Sennheiser HD600, AKG K702, Hifiman HE-400i, Marantz HD-DAC1 (also used for music playback in the main system, Marantz CD5004, Denon DVD-3910
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post #24852 of 24854 Old 10-19-2017, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
As far as I know, both units work correctly, and I have had no problems with either of them (the Carver was repaired and brought up to factory spec just before Carver Corp shut down, and it sounds great with either my Denon AVR or the Carver C-1 preamp). So it "worked" to use the Oppo 103 as a preamp with the Carver amp, but it didn't sound very good.
Have you tried the Oppo analog outs with anything else?

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post #24853 of 24854 Old Yesterday, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Have you tried the Oppo analog outs with anything else?
Yes, they work fine with my AVR and its AVR predecessor.

AT&T U-Verse Northeast Ohio

Denon x4000, Carver m1.0t, Samsung LED TV, B&W 704 mains, two M&K subwoofers, Oppo 103, Roku 2, etc.
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post #24854 of 24854 Old Yesterday, 05:55 AM
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(Puzzled)

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