Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 124 - AVS Forum
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post #3691 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

It's not that complicated. Simply match it to the rest of the speakers. Once you've done that then the +15dB boost is already in place.

That is you have to add volume on the Subwoofer channel to get it to match the other speakers. Once it matches the other speakers then you are done. Bob/quote

Thanks, that makes it clear.
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post #3692 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by boyce89976 View Post

I am playing ISO SACD rips on the 105 via Audirvana and it works just fine for me. I'm still learning about SACD/ISO, but it appears Audirvana converts to DSD prior to sending to the Oppo.
According to the feature page the paid "Plus" player does not convert anything to DSD. It can convert DSD to PCM if needed. The free player does not support DSD at all.
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post #3693 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mdanderson View Post

I wanted to say thank you to Bob Pariseau and a number of other posters for all the help I received before deciding to purchase the Oppo 105. I have had the player since Thursday so I have only had a few days to try it out. In a word, I have been amazed so far with the quality of the sound

Congratulations, and good decision!

One suggestion: get some Blu-ray audio disks. For example, from http://www.2l.no/. They sound remarkable.

My system? Google for: Martin Logan 420 CLX Descent Stage Summit
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post #3694 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

It's not that complicated. Simply match it to the rest of the speakers. Once you've done that then the +15dB boost is already in place.

That is you have to add volume on the Subwoofer channel to get it to match the other speakers. Once it matches the other speakers then you are done.
--Bob
Don't forget that the Radio Shack spl meters are known to have approx. 5db lower registers in the lower frequencies. There are many articles found on google noting this.

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post #3695 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

According to the feature page the paid "Plus" player does not convert anything to DSD. It can convert DSD to PCM if needed. The free player does not support DSD at all.

Like I said, I'm new to SACD/ISO, but the GUI for Audirvana says the following when playing an ISO rip of Nickel Creek "SACD ISO 1bit/2.8MHz (DSD64)". But you're right, it's converting it to LPCM before going to the Oppo.

I can't figure out how to get the 5.1 layer to play though, so maybe that's something to do with what you are saying?
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post #3696 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

It's not that complicated. Simply match it to the rest of the speakers. Once you've done that then the +15dB boost is already in place.

That is you have to add volume on the Subwoofer channel to get it to match the other speakers. Once it matches the other speakers then you are done.
--Bob
Don't forget that the Radio Shack spl meters are known to have approx. 5db lower registers in the lower frequencies. There are many articles found on google noting this.

Yes, but that's related to specific frequencies -- i.e., it would matter if you were trying to use the SPL meter to chart bass response vs. frequency using single-frequency tones. The test tones (as from the AIX disc) are broadband enough, even for the Subwoofer tone, that you don't have to worry about this.

More relevant is the concept of "Room Gain" which is a desirable room response characteristic that imparts a small boost to bass frequencies. To make a long story short, preserving Room Gain may mean setting the Sub to produce an SPL level 2-4dB hotter than the other speakers. So if you like your Sub to be a few dB hotter than a precise match to the other speakers, that may very well be "correct". This sort of thing can be measured with audio charting tools, but barring availability of those, simply trust your ears.
--Bob

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post #3697 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

At this price it would be nice if Oppo could get rid of their plastic tray and front end!  Long gone are the time when they sold cheap blu ray players.

for $1200 the BDP-105 needs a better front end make the loading tray in aluminium or other metal they see fit.

The SABRE32 Reference
 DACs (
http://www.esstech.com/index.php?p=products_DAC
are the same as the BDP-95, when do you think Sabre will release new DACS?


Maybe when they release 64 Bit Audio DACs then the sound will be even better!


Anyone else makes 64Bit audio DACs?


http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products/Zodiac-Gold-DAC


http://www.chordelectronics.co.uk/chord-dac-technology.asp


Ti make audio DSP system with 64 Bit processing

Sabre DAC itself it sounds amazing with its 32bit in the right hardware set up. It is actually the most advanced DAC chip at the moment. Is only a little bit sad/disappointing that Oppo did not used this chip at the level(s) it actually can....
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post #3698 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by arkay View Post

I just got the 105 a couple days ago. I have a few questions on the bass management.
I have Mythos STs for my FR & FL along with a DefTech sub. The fronts are set to large as directed by vendor. This results in no sound out of the sub with the oppo on stereo using the analog outs.
How can I get 2.1 out of the Oppo?

Ron

The issue is that stereo is 2 channel and not 2.1.  If you play a 5.1 recording, the sub will play.  Now, if you want to use the sub for stereo by rerouting the low bass from the DTs, you have to set them to "SMALL" as others have stated.


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http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #3699 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jimshowalter View Post

Congratulations, and good decision!

One suggestion: get some Blu-ray audio disks. For example, from http://www.2l.no/. They sound remarkable.

Thanks for the link Jim. Yes, 2L has some excellent recordings. A couple of years ago I bought the Nordic Sound sampler/collection on bluray and it sounds really nice. It also came with the sacd version.

Matt
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post #3700 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View PostSabre DAC itself it sounds amazing with its 32bit in the right hardware set up. It is actually the most advanced DAC chip at the moment. Is only a little bit sad/disappointing that Oppo did not used this chip at the level(s) it actually can....

 

What do you mean, I thought they extracted every drop of sound quality

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^
Oh Oh eek.gif
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post #3702 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

What do you mean, I thought they extracted every drop of sound quality

Oppo extracted exactly what they needed from those Sabre dac's to produce the "New" reigning" King" of "True Universal Players" You can have too much of a good thing ya know !
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post #3703 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

It's not that complicated. Simply match it to the rest of the speakers. Once you've done that then the +15dB boost is already in place.

That is you have to add volume on the Subwoofer channel to get it to match the other speakers. Once it matches the other speakers then you are done.
--Bob
Don't forget that the Radio Shack spl meters are known to have approx. 5db lower registers in the lower frequencies. There are many articles found on google noting this.

Yes, but that's related to specific frequencies -- i.e., it would matter if you were trying to use the SPL meter to chart bass response vs. frequency using single-frequency tones. The test tones (as from the AIX disc) are broadband enough, even for the Subwoofer tone, that you don't have to worry about this.

More relevant is the concept of "Room Gain" which is a desirable room response characteristic that imparts a small boost to bass frequencies. To make a long story short, preserving Room Gain may mean setting the Sub to produce an SPL level 2-4dB hotter than the other speakers. So if you like your Sub to be a few dB hotter than a precise match to the other speakers, that may very well be "correct". This sort of thing can be measured with audio charting tools, but barring availability of those, simply trust your ears.
--Bob

 

Bob:

 

What about sources with no LFE like 2.0 source that i want to make a 2.1 source. There's no LFE boost to add in this case. Do i level match the subwoofer to the mains using the AIX disk as you propose?

 

--David


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #3704 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Bob:

What about sources with no LFE like 2.0 source that i want to make a 2.1 source. There's no LFE boost to add in this case. Do i level match the subwoofer to the mains using the AIX disk as you propose?

--David
If you wanted a 2.0 + sub config, you can use some Y connectors and split the L and R channels and feed them separately to your sub, That is if your sub has dual input.
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post #3705 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

At this price it would be nice if Oppo could get rid of their plastic tray and front end!  Long gone are the time when they sold cheap blu ray players.

 

for $1200 the BDP-105 needs a better front end make the loading tray in aluminium or other metal they see fit.

 

The SABRE32 Reference DACs (http://www.esstech.com/index.php?p=products_DACare the same as the BDP-95, when do you think Sabre will release new DACS?

 

Maybe when they release 64 Bit Audio DACs then the sound will be even better!

 

Anyone else makes 64Bit audio DACs?

http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products/Zodiac-Gold-DAC

http://www.chordelectronics.co.uk/chord-dac-technology.asp

 

Ti make audio DSP system with 64 Bit processing

 

And pay what price for this 64-bit dac? What extra benefits woyld you hope to get? and you'll feed this direct into an amplifier capable of resolving 64-bit dac details? Do you know of an amplifier with a S/N ratio of 384 dB or something remotely closeeek.gif? Even if the amplifier is frozen to absolute zero, it would never do justice ot a true 64-bit signal.

 

BTW, before one thinks of a 64-bit dac, there has to be an audiophole 64-bit ADC at the beginning of the audio recording chain for all  this to make sense. Do you know of any?


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #3706 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Bob:

What about sources with no LFE like 2.0 source that i want to make a 2.1 source. There's no LFE boost to add in this case. Do i level match the subwoofer to the mains using the AIX disk as you propose?

--David

The amount of boost needed for the Analog subwoofer output is set by your speaker configuration, not by the content you are playing. (To do otherwise would mean you'd have to constantly be readjusting things as you played different content.)

To make 2.0 content into 2.1 output requires the speakers be set to Small (and Subwoofer ON), so you will need +15dB boost to make the Subwoofer jack match the LF/RF RCA jacks. If you are using the XLR jacks with Stereo Signal FRONT LEFT/RIGHT set, you will need +21dB boost to make the subwoofer jack match those.

NOTE 1: The over all volume level will be reduced due to down-mix attenuation if you play a larger number of channels into a smaller number of speakers. But that's automatically applied to all channels, so the RELATIVE channel trims don't have to be adjusted.

NOTE 2: If you play stereo SACD content using DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion, Crossover processing is not possible, so the Subwoofer output will remain silent and thus its volume trim is irrelevant. If you play multi-channel SACD content using DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion, again, Crossover processing is not possible, the speakers are treated as Large and thus the Subwoofer output needs +10dB boost (not +15dB). As always, choosing to use DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion is not for the faint of heart. You need to be aware of what it means for audio processing to be bypassed. Use SACD Output PCM to avoid such complexities.
--Bob

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post #3707 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 07:00 PM
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Bob:

 

I don't understand the high value of the boost needed for the sub to turn standard stereo content(16b/24b) into 2.1 content. The original makers of stereo content never counted on a standard +15dB boost normally applied inside of an audio processor. This boost wasn't recorded into the original recording by cutting the bass by -15dB in order for the processor to boost it by 15dB to match the bass match the rest of the mains. Am i missing something?


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #3708 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Bob:

I don't understand the high value of the boost needed for the sub to turn standard stereo content(16b/24b) into 2.1 content. The original makers of stereo content never counted on a standard +15dB boost normally applied inside of an audio processor. This boost wasn't recorded into the original recording by cutting the bass by -15dB in order for the processor to boost it by 15dB to match the bass match the rest of the mains. Am i missing something?
Yep. The Sub output carries the -10dB attenuation as if LFE was present so that you don't have to change the Sub volume trim when playing multi-channel content. The other -5dB provides headroom so that the steered bass can be mixed in as well. It has nothing to do with how stereo content is recorded.
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post #3709 of 11327 Old 02-16-2013, 10:17 PM
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Hey, I'm a new member here.

My BDP-105 also will not display network files in alphabetical order.

Interesting though, when it reads files off of my Western Digital Passport External Hard Drive connected to my computer via USB, file names appear in alphabetical order.

BUT,

When it reads files from my Western Digital My Book Live connected to my computer via ethernet, there is not order. This is very annoying as I use the networking feature to stream my FLAC files (in album folders) and there are over 700 albums. So I really need to figure out how to fix this.

I'm wondering why with one external hard drive I have this problem and with the other, I don't.

The OPPO is reading both of them over wifi.

Can anyone help?

Anyone know what OPPO is saying about this?
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post #3710 of 11327 Old 02-17-2013, 01:42 AM
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^ it's not the HDD, it's the route you are using. USB vs. Ethernet.
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post #3711 of 11327 Old 02-17-2013, 02:32 AM - Thread Starter
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If you use SMB then there is a known sorting error with files and folders. Use direct storage or DLNA DMP instead.
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post #3712 of 11327 Old 02-17-2013, 06:03 AM
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Just wanted to check if there are any updates on using some kind of Airplay function on the 105?
I have a Macbook with some Apple lossless tracks which I wish to play wirelessly via the Oppo.
Is that possible now or is this still a dream?
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post #3713 of 11327 Old 02-17-2013, 06:57 AM
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First time poster........

I purchased the 105 last week and have been trying to understand a few things:

(Currently the player is connected to the 7.1 analog inputs and stereo analog inputs of my Marantz AV 7005. All connections by RCA cables. HDMI is connected from the 105 directly to my plasma display; no hdmi connected to the Marantz from the 105)

1. The bass management on the 105 only works for the 7.1 analog section and not the stereo analog section? Is this a correct statement? The reason I ask is because when I listen to 2 channel music on the 105 and I place the Marantz in DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode, the subwoofers do not work. My fronts are set to SMALL and subwoofer set to LFE on the Marantz.. In addition on the 105 I have the speakers set to SMALL with subwoofer set to ON and Xover set at 80HZ. My understanding is that the 105 bypasses all the Marantz processing when using analog outs. This must not be the case for 2 channel listening. The only way I can get the subwoofers to play in 2 channel is to either use the STEREO mode on the Marantz or change the Marantz to DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode and also change the subwoofer setting on the Marantz to LFE+MAIN. What is interesting is that when in stereo mode on the Marantz, while playing 2 channel music from the analog out from the 105, I can use the manual EQ and Audyssey. While using the 7.1 analog outs on the 105, the Marantz locks out the manual EQ and Audyssey.

2. Maybe I do not have the settings correct but I did a sound comparison between my Panasonic BluRay player and the 105. Both were connected to the Marantz; Panasonic via HDMI and 105 via analog inputs. I listened to the same CD and flipped back and forth between the two to try to listen to the sound quality differences. The only difference I really noticed was the bass was tighter on the 105 and not by much. Sound stage appeared to be the same. I doubt the DACs in the Marantz are of the same quality as the 105?

3. Maybe this is a question more about the Marantz processor but I will ask anyways. Can I bypass the video processing of the Marantz so I can connect the 105 to the Marantz via HDMI and use the 105s video processing. This would be preferred over connecting the 105 directly to my plasma display.


Any input would be appreciated

Thanks guys
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post #3714 of 11327 Old 02-17-2013, 07:04 AM
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And pay what price for this 64-bit dac? What extra benefits woyld you hope to get? and you'll feed this direct into an amplifier capable of resolving 64-bit dac details? Do you know of an amplifier with a S/N ratio of 384 dB or something remotely close:eek: ? Even if the amplifier is frozen to absolute zero, it would never do justice ot a true 64-bit signal.

BTW, before one thinks of a 64-bit dac, there has to be an audiophole 64-bit ADC at the beginning of the audio recording chain for all  this to make sense. Do you know of any?

A competitor of ESS takes issue with the idea the Sabre DAC is actually 32-bit: http://www.msbtech.com/support/What_about_32_bit_DACs.php FWIW they may be right.
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post #3715 of 11327 Old 02-17-2013, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jeff52 View Post

A competitor of ESS takes issue with the idea the Sabre DAC is actually 32-bit: http://www.msbtech.com/support/What_about_32_bit_DACs.php FWIW they may be right.

There is no date on that statement and no indication of which 32-bit Sabre DAC they are referring to (there are a few models). I tend not to trust self-serving statements from companies where the info they provide is sketchy, as it is in this case. They could be right but I doubt it.
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post #3716 of 11327 Old 02-17-2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jeff52 View PostA competitor of ESS takes issue with the idea the Sabre DAC is actually 32-bit: http://www.msbtech.com/support/What_about_32_bit_DACs.php FWIW they may be right.

Any EE who can shed some light!

 

I will email ESS and see what they say?

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post #3717 of 11327 Old 02-17-2013, 08:00 AM
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By the way, the guys making these statements about ESS sell DACs costing as much as $10K or so (with the outboard power supply). A relatively inexpensive DAC like ESS makes that performed as well as theirs (or even nearly) would threaten their business, I would think. I personally can't imagine what would make a DAC cost $10k, even if it were made of pure gold in a platinum case. Ultimately all DAC makers must buy their basic chips from the same few manufacturers and none of them are outrageously expensive.
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post #3718 of 11327 Old 02-17-2013, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff52 View Post

A competitor of ESS takes issue with the idea the Sabre DAC is actually 32-bit: http://www.msbtech.com/support/What_about_32_bit_DACs.php FWIW they may be right.

Doubt it. The Sabre DAC directly threatens their huge markup for their "high-performance" DACs. Start spreading the FUD.

Cheers.
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post #3719 of 11327 Old 02-17-2013, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by kinbaumjr View Post
1. The bass management on the 105 only works for the 7.1 analog section and not the stereo analog section? Is this a correct statement? The reason I ask is because when I listen to 2 channel music on the 105 and I place the Marantz in DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode, the subwoofers do not work. My fronts are set to SMALL and subwoofer set to LFE on the Marantz.. In addition on the 105 I have the speakers set to SMALL with subwoofer set to ON and Xover set at 80HZ. My understanding is that the 105 bypasses all the Marantz processing when using analog outs. This must not be the case for 2 channel listening. The only way I can get the subwoofers to play in 2 channel is to either use the STEREO mode on the Marantz or change the Marantz to DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode and also change the subwoofer setting on the Marantz to LFE+MAIN. What is interesting is that when in stereo mode on the Marantz, while playing 2 channel music from the analog out from the 105, I can use the manual EQ and Audyssey. While using the 7.1 analog outs on the 105, the Marantz locks out the manual EQ and Audyssey.

2. Maybe I do not have the settings correct but I did a sound comparison between my Panasonic BluRay player and the 105. Both were connected to the Marantz; Panasonic via HDMI and 105 via analog inputs. I listened to the same CD and flipped back and forth between the two to try to listen to the sound quality differences. The only difference I really noticed was the bass was tighter on the 105 and not by much. Sound stage appeared to be the same. I doubt the DACs in the Marantz are of the same quality as the 105?
 

1.  You are using the bass management in the 105, not the Marantz with this setup as DIRECT/PURE DIRECT bypasses the Marantz' BM.  Note that you get BM in stereo if your make the described change from DIRECT/PURE DIRECT.

 

2.  Too many variables.  Compare the players with both via HDMI or both via analog.  Compare individual players HDMI to their own analog. (BTW, different BM may be significant in your comparisons.)


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post #3720 of 11327 Old 02-17-2013, 08:29 AM
gsr
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Originally Posted by kinbaumjr View Post

First time poster........
Welcome to AVS.
Quote:
1. The bass management on the 105 only works for the 7.1 analog section and not the stereo analog section? Is this a correct statement? The reason I ask is because when I listen to 2 channel music on the 105 and I place the Marantz in DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode, the subwoofers do not work. My fronts are set to SMALL and subwoofer set to LFE on the Marantz.. In addition on the 105 I have the speakers set to SMALL with subwoofer set to ON and Xover set at 80HZ. My understanding is that the 105 bypasses all the Marantz processing when using analog outs. This must not be the case for 2 channel listening. The only way I can get the subwoofers to play in 2 channel is to either use the STEREO mode on the Marantz or change the Marantz to DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode and also change the subwoofer setting on the Marantz to LFE+MAIN. What is interesting is that when in stereo mode on the Marantz, while playing 2 channel music from the analog out from the 105, I can use the manual EQ and Audyssey. While using the 7.1 analog outs on the 105, the Marantz locks out the manual EQ and Audyssey.
Bass management applies only to the 7.1 outputs, not the stereo outputs, unless the stereo outputs are configured as FL/FR instead of stereo downmix in the setup menu. Most receivers can digitize stereo analog inputs and then apply digital processing, such as bass management and Audyssey. Most receivers cannot digitize multi-channel analog inputs as that requires more ADC (analog to digital) components that drive the price up. Usually only the flagship models can digitize multi-channel inputs. For example, the Denon AVP-A1HDCI and AVR-5308CI can both digitize the multi-channel analog inputs, but their less expensive models cannot.

When you place the Marantz in DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode, that disables the bass management, which is why you don't get anything from your subwoofer when using the stereo outputs on the Oppo. When you switch to STEREO mode on the Marantz, that enables the bass management in the Marantz, so you get output from your subwoofer.
Quote:
2. Maybe I do not have the settings correct but I did a sound comparison between my Panasonic BluRay player and the 105. Both were connected to the Marantz; Panasonic via HDMI and 105 via analog inputs. I listened to the same CD and flipped back and forth between the two to try to listen to the sound quality differences. The only difference I really noticed was the bass was tighter on the 105 and not by much. Sound stage appeared to be the same. I doubt the DACs in the Marantz are of the same quality as the 105?
It's hard to provide any guidance without more information (you haven't mentioned what amp and speakers you have, for example), but it's possible the rest of your system isn't good enough to resolve the difference. Just as an example, if you had cheap HTIB speakers, there's no way you would be able to notice the difference between the sound quality of the Panasonic and Oppo.
Quote:
3. Maybe this is a question more about the Marantz processor but I will ask anyways. Can I bypass the video processing of the Marantz so I can connect the 105 to the Marantz via HDMI and use the 105s video processing. This would be preferred over connecting the 105 directly to my plasma display.
Generally speaking, there is almost always a passthrough mode that bypasses processing, but you should be able to get a definitive answer to this in the thread for your Marantz processor over in the receiver / processor forum.
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