Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 247 - AVS Forum
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post #7381 of 11369 Old 10-04-2013, 08:07 PM
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Bob,

No, I had the stereo signal set to front left/right. I understand completely what you said, but whether it was playing 2.0 or 5.1 material the volume was low. I didn't notice any loss of dialog, however I will change it to down mixed stereo and see what happens. Thanks for your help.

Colin
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post #7382 of 11369 Old 10-04-2013, 08:24 PM
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^ If you have FRONT LEFT/RIGHT set, the Dedicated L/R outputs respond to all the settings normally affecting the LF/RF outputs of the multi-channel Analog set.

Try DOWN-MIXED STEREO -- which is what you really want for this use -- and then you could also take a look at what settings you happen to have in Speaker Configuration for the multi-channel Analog outputs. to see if there's an explanation there.

In addition, I recommend you check that you have DTS NEO:6 Mode set to OFF.
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post #7383 of 11369 Old 10-04-2013, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ If you have FRONT LEFT/RIGHT set, the Dedicated L/R outputs respond to all the settings normally affecting the LF/RF outputs of the multi-channel Analog set.

Try DOWN-MIXED STEREO -- which is what you really want for this use -- and then you could also take a look at what settings you happen to have in Speaker Configuration for the multi-channel Analog outputs. to see if there's an explanation there.

In addition, I recommend you check that you have DTS NEO:6 Mode set to OFF.
--Bob

Bob,

I set the down mix to stereo in the speaker configuration section. It was set to 7.1. I made sure the DTS setting was off. All I am interested in at this point is 2 channel stereo. It's sounding pretty good right now, but as an audiophile I'm concerned that down mixing is adding unnecessary processing that could be affecting the quality of the sound, however I guess there is no way around it. The processing is either done in the Oppo or if I set the source to LPCM 2.0 then the down mixing would be done there I assume. The answer would be to upgrade my system to multichannel :-)

Thanks very much for your help in getting this configured correctly.

Colin
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post #7384 of 11369 Old 10-04-2013, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frederick184 View Post

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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ If you have FRONT LEFT/RIGHT set, the Dedicated L/R outputs respond to all the settings normally affecting the LF/RF outputs of the multi-channel Analog set.

Try DOWN-MIXED STEREO -- which is what you really want for this use -- and then you could also take a look at what settings you happen to have in Speaker Configuration for the multi-channel Analog outputs. to see if there's an explanation there.

In addition, I recommend you check that you have DTS NEO:6 Mode set to OFF.
--Bob

Bob,

I set the down mix to stereo in the speaker configuration section. It was set to 7.1. I made sure the DTS setting was off. All I am interested in at this point is 2 channel stereo. It's sounding pretty good right now, but as an audiophile I'm concerned that down mixing is adding unnecessary processing that could be affecting the quality of the sound, however I guess there is no way around it. The processing is either done in the Oppo or if I set the source to LPCM 2.0 then the down mixing would be done there I assume. The answer would be to upgrade my system to multichannel :-)

Thanks very much for your help in getting this configured correctly.

Colin

Actually that's the wrong setting. There's a Down-Mix setting in Speaker Configuration which applies to the multi-channel Analog outputs (i.e., the one you just changed). But there is a SEPARATE Stereo Signal setting in Setup > Audio Processing and *THAT* is the one you want to set to DOWN-MIXED STEREO when using the Dedicated L/R outputs as you are using them now. Scroll down the list in Setup > Audio Processing to find that Stereo Signal setting.
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post #7385 of 11369 Old 10-05-2013, 10:53 AM
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Can anyone offer any words of solace, or better yet, words of wisdom as to why Oppo hasn't bothered to update their broken ios MediaControlHD app? Are they so inundated with bigger fires to not make it a priority? I guess they don't feel that being able to play songs in succession as the recording artist meant them to be played is a big deal. If they only understood the beauty/cost savings/importance this app could aspire to be. I continue to use it so I don't have to keep my tv or my computer on all the time (that's a bigger priority for me). I understand for some that searching music directories for audio tracks in your large audio collection is a big pain compared to the metadada rich database support a dlna media server provides, but until Oppo supports dsd over dlna, I have been using my JRiver software a lot less. I think a first big step for Oppo would be to debug the mediacontrol app, fix the playback order of audio tracks in an album, and get it stabilized for cifs/smb. I have so many ios apps that get updated on a frequent basis on my iPad, and the one I'm impatiently waiting for is Oppo's mediacontrol app, which seems to never get udpated. frown.gif
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post #7386 of 11369 Old 10-05-2013, 12:51 PM
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forget the oppo control media HD app.

I lend me a ipad from my buddy and test this app, because it is not running on iphones.

But today i bought the "8player" app in the store. Great tool. You can control all media files via iphone, w-lan. Also you can streaming via DLNA directly all media files directly with the oppo 105.

With 8player you can play mkv files directly on ios devices too.



--> http://www.appannie.com/app/ios/8player/
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post #7387 of 11369 Old 10-05-2013, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Can anyone offer any words of solace, or better yet, words of wisdom as to why Oppo hasn't bothered to update their broken ios MediaControlHD app? Are they so inundated with bigger fires to not make it a priority?

They've been making revisions every couple of months, so I would expect the next major release to occur by the end of the year. In August you had the V2.0.1 release which added additional functionality like SMB and fixed some bugs, and OPPO will continue to work on having additional functionality (DLNA, SMB, etc) added to the application. OPPO is giving you a free application, so do not expect immediate changes to the application as it takes engineers away from developing the firmware of the player, something that you paid $500 to $1200 for.
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... but until Oppo supports dsd over dlna, I have been using my JRiver software a lot less.

DSD is not supported through DLNA. Never will be. DLNA does not have the mounting requirements for DSD media playback through the network.
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post #7388 of 11369 Old 10-05-2013, 04:30 PM
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They've been making revisions every couple of months, so I would expect the next major release to occur by the end of the year. In August you had the V2.0.1 release which added additional functionality like SMB and fixed some bugs, and OPPO will continue to work on having additional functionality (DLNA, SMB, etc) added to the application. OPPO is giving you a free application, so do not expect immediate changes to the application as it takes engineers away from developing the firmware of the player, something that you paid $500 to $1200 for.
DSD is not supported through DLNA. Never will be. DLNA does not have the mounting requirements for DSD media playback through the network.

I'd pay money for Oppo to fix their Mediacontrol app. Updates to the app don't have to come at the same time they decide to update the Oppo firmware.

Where did you get your info on dsd not supported through DLNA? JRiver supports DSD over PCM (DoPE). http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD_Format I would think all Oppo has to do is parse this DSD over PCM stream before sending it to its dacs.
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post #7389 of 11369 Old 10-05-2013, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

I'd pay money for Oppo to fix their Mediacontrol app. Updates to the app don't have to come at the same time they decide to update the Oppo firmware.

They don't. The MediaControlHD has been updated multiple times before the 2.0 revision. The 2.0 revision just required the 60-0808B firmware due to major changes in the way the two needed to communicate.

If you want to pay money, there are many alternatives which give you the same, if not better, functionality. Such as the JRiver Media Control, Twonky Media Server, so forth.
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Where did you get your info on dsd not supported through DLNA?

OPPO. OPPO says their DSD implementation will not support DLNA. You need SMB if you want DSD. If you are converting DSD into PCM, then DLNA will work, but you need to be using a DLNA server that is programmed for transcoding. Again, DLNA will be added to a future release of the MediaControlHD. If you need DLNA now, use an alternative server such as JRiver, Twonky, sync:stream, media:share, and a slew of other DLNA controllers. Then install your favorite DLNA transcoding software on your computer, and you are good to go.
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post #7390 of 11369 Old 10-05-2013, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

OPPO. OPPO says their DSD implementation will not support DLNA. You need SMB if you want DSD. If you are converting DSD into PCM, then DLNA will work, but you need to be using a DLNA server that is programmed for transcoding. Again, DLNA will be added to a future release of the MediaControlHD. If you need DLNA now, use an alternative server such as JRiver, Twonky, sync:stream, media:share, and a slew of other DLNA controllers. Then install your favorite DLNA transcoding software on your computer, and you are good to go.
DoP doesn't convert DSD into PCM. It uses the existing pcm container format to pass the dsd bitstream. This stream would have to be parsed at the renderer end before sending the decoded dsd bitstream to the dacs. So, you're saying Oppo won't implement this, or they can't based on their current implementation?
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post #7391 of 11369 Old 10-05-2013, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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No. DSD has to be DSD (SMB only) or converted to a supported format such as 24-bit/88.2KHz (DLNA with transcoding). There are absolutely no plans for supporting DSD over DLNA.
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post #7392 of 11369 Old 10-05-2013, 05:27 PM
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^ Okay. Thanks, Neuro. I guess DoPE will be a dying implementation if media renderers with dsd capability have no future plans to implement it. Bummer...It's really difficult to have the best of all worlds...
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post #7393 of 11369 Old 10-06-2013, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

I guess DoPE will be a dying implementation if media renderers with dsd capability have no future plans to implement it. Bummer...It's really difficult to have the best of all worlds...
If someone still keeps a Squeezebox Touch, you can play DoP-files with it. All you need is the EDO app for the SBT and a DSD/DoP-ready DAC. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119364.0

What a pity, that Oppo doesn`t make the USB-DAC from the 105 ready for DoP. The Oppo 105 and the SBT (with EDO) are a great team via USB.

Well, I bought a "suitable" PS3 today on eBay and three SACDs. Viva DSD! tongue.gif
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post #7394 of 11369 Old 10-07-2013, 11:01 AM
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When using OPPO BDP-105 as a pre/pro and playing SACD with DSD do you hear any difference compared to LPCM?

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When using OPPO BDP-105 as a pre/pro and playing SACD with DSD do you hear any difference compared to LPCM?

I do wink.gif
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post #7396 of 11369 Old 10-07-2013, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View PostI do wink.gif

Please tell more :)

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Probably a stretch for this one...but is there any 3rd Party Android App that will "fake" a monitor, so I can see the menus and such without firing up my projector and surround sound receiver?

I'd rather not have to hook up a small HDMI monitor on HDMI 2 in order to view menus when I'm two channel listening (which is a completely different amp and speakers from my Home Theater setup on HDMI 1)
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post #7398 of 11369 Old 10-08-2013, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

When using OPPO BDP-105 as a pre/pro and playing SACD with DSD do you hear any difference compared to LPCM?

None. 88.2kHz sampling rate should be more than sufficient to ensure that differences in sound quality (removing any bass management/room correction equalization) are not possible.

Cheers.
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post #7399 of 11369 Old 10-08-2013, 11:24 AM
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Does anyone know if the Silver 105 is carried by Amazon seller and if so, are they just out of stock. It's the annual 5% cash back from Amazon purchases and i would prefer in silver. Another seller has it for $1499 which defeats the purposes of saving on the cashback.

I'm getting there....!!!
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post #7400 of 11369 Old 10-08-2013, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by TKO1 View PostNone. 88.1kHz sampling rate should be more than sufficient to ensure that differences in sound quality (removing any bass management/room correction equalization) are not possible. Cheers.

Did you try it?

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post #7401 of 11369 Old 10-08-2013, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone know if the Silver 105 is carried by Amazon seller and if so, are they just out of stock. It's the annual 5% cash back from Amazon purchases and i would prefer in silver. Another seller has it for $1499 which defeats the purposes of saving on the cashback.

Amazon.com only sells the BDP-103. All other players are fulfilled by OPPO.
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post #7402 of 11369 Old 10-08-2013, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

When using OPPO BDP-105 as a pre/pro and playing SACD with DSD do you hear any difference compared to LPCM?

I've tried it on a number of occasions, but it's difficult to attribute any change in sound to DSD or LPCM processing as such. DSD does not include any management the Oppo may be doing, so there is no distance nor level setting for surrounds, all are treated as equal. I'm not sure I notice a difference for stereo. Most of my SACDs include surround channels.

Caveat: The 105 outputs 7.1 analog to Cary Cinema 11a inputs that are set to bypass, but the Cary does control the volume and converts unbalanced input to balanced output. In a less revealing setup where an Oppo 95 connects directly to a Proceed Amp 2, I notice no difference. I think I preferred a previous setup where the 95 input stereo to Proceed PDSD pass-throughs and a PAV controlled the volume, but it's such a hassle to set that up that I haven't bothered trying it again.

db

Thorens TD 124, SME Series III arm with Ortofon SME 30 H cartridge into Parasound JC-3 phono stage
Ayre C-5xeMP & Oppo BDP-105
Parasound JC-2 preamp into Proceed HPA amps
KEF Reference 107/2 mains & 102 surrounds
Velodyne SMS-1 bass managers & a pair of HGS-15 subs
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post #7403 of 11369 Old 10-08-2013, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

Did you try it?

No. I was too busy putting putty in my ears and reading about it in scientific documents. rolleyes.gif Of course I tried it after reading/studying each technology in-depth. And they were indistinguishable.

Oppo measurements DSD - PCM

and this is what Oppo says about it.. Which pretty well confirms the measurements in the first URL.

YMMV.

Cheers.
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post #7404 of 11369 Old 10-08-2013, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View PostI've tried it on a number of occasions, but it's difficult to attribute any change in sound to DSD or LPCM processing as such. DSD does not include any management the Oppo may be doing, so there is no distance nor level setting for surrounds, all are treated as equal. I'm not sure I notice a difference for stereo. Most of my SACDs include surround channels.

Caveat: The 105 outputs 7.1 analog to Cary Cinema 11a inputs that are set to bypass, but the Cary does control the volume and converts unbalanced input to balanced output. In a less revealing setup where an Oppo 95 connects directly to a Proceed Amp 2, I notice no difference. I think I preferred a previous setup where the 95 input stereo to Proceed PDSD pass-throughs and a PAV controlled the volume, but it's such a hassle to set that up that I haven't bothered trying it again.

db

I did the same with the SSP-800 what a drag to have so many analog cables!

 

Never tried the BDP-105 straight I might do that over the Holidays but first I need to find some decent converting plugs from XLR to RCA

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post #7405 of 11369 Old 10-08-2013, 05:32 PM
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Interesting!

 

Analogue Output:
Lets now have a look at what a 1kHz -6dB sample looks like after going through the DSD process. What I did here was record a few seconds of a pure 1kHz test tone in 24/192 to have a look at the waveform zoomed in.

PCM 24/192 FLAC played back:

1kHz_ZOOMED.png
 


DSD64 KORG transcoded DFF file played back:

1kHz_ZOOMED.png

"Bottom line: The Oppo did a great job with DSD playback just like it did with PCM. Limitations of DSD are clearly seen (ultrasonic noise pollution mainly). From a purely technical perspective, within the 20Hz-20kHz audio spectrum, there's really nothing to differentiate all these hi-res formats. However, if you include ultrasonic characteristics, PCM is definitely cleaner.
 

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post #7406 of 11369 Old 10-08-2013, 05:35 PM
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^ Hang on. Whose device is processing the DSD in that? The DACs in the 103/105 have a 50KHz filter for DSD playback specifically to eliminate the high frequency noise inherent in the "noise shaping" of the DSD format.

With the 105 doing both the PCM and DSD to Analog you should not be able to see any high frequency difference. If you do, that suggests an error in testing methodology.
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post #7407 of 11369 Old 10-09-2013, 02:34 AM
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^ Hang on. Whose device is processing the DSD in that? The DACs in the 103/105 have a 50KHz filter for DSD playback specifically to eliminate the high frequency noise inherent in the "noise shaping" of the DSD format.

With the 105 doing both the PCM and DSD to Analog you should not be able to see any high frequency difference. If you do, that suggests an error in testing methodology.
--Bob

Testing methodology states a 1kHz signal. I see nothing wrong with the testing methodology.

Cheers.
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post #7408 of 11369 Old 10-09-2013, 05:11 AM
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Neuromancer, do you know why tge silcer is not listed on Anazon if it is shipped by Oppo? Are they just out of stock?

I'm getting there....!!!
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If you want to see an excellent technical report on the DSD format by two very accomplished scientists at the University of Waterloo, check out their AES Paper - Why 1-Bit Sigma-Delta Conversion is Unsuitable for High-Quality Applications.

Cheers.
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post #7410 of 11369 Old 10-09-2013, 06:19 AM
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oooppsss. Sorry. I typed that on my phone on my way to work. The question was supposed to be: "Do you know why the Silver unit is not listed on Amazon? Is it just out of stock?" If so, do you have an idea when it will likely be re-stocked? I want to purchase it while I still have the money and preferably within the 5% cash back window (Oct to Dec)biggrin.gif

I'm getting there....!!!
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