Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by triweaver2 View Post

Am I correct in thinking I can play a multichannel SACD down mixed to 2 channel analog?

Yes, so long as you are using SACD Output PCM. However, if the SACD you are playing has a Stereo layer, you would likely be better off playing that instead of the 5.1 layer down-mixed to stereo, as the stereo layer on the SACD disc is purpose-mixed for just that use.
--Bob


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post #902 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by nycjazz View Post

Ok, but not much of a point to get the benefits of SACD if you are going to output to PCM...

That is debatable and depends on your system. From a purist point of view you probably only want DSD direct to analog etc. And if your home has no standing waves below 300Hz that your speakers, which would have to accurately reproduce the low bass frequencies that your music demands, would excite than that would probably be fantastic... The sad news is that is unlikely the case (for the majority of home users) and bass management and room EQ (ARC, Audyssey, and others) to compensate for standing waves are much more important than the DSD pure signal versus the Oppo DSD to PCM conversion at 88kHz.

On my home system, with Paradigm Reference and Revel Concerta speakers, the Oppo DSD to PCM conversion with Paradigm's Perfect Bass Kit, blows away the pure DSD signal. YMMV.

Cheers.

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post #903 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I disagree. You seem to think that using SACD Output PCM must mean a loss of quality. That's simply not the case.
--Bob
Bob, this downsamples from 2.8MHz to 192KHz before it gets transferred to analog, so how is that not a loss of quality? I do find a difference between my SACDs and my DVD-As...Can you please explain? Thanks!
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post #904 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

finally got around to unpacking my 105:nice unit
my house got hit by Sandy: major destruction even though it was built new in 2000 on 92 pilings and heavy reinforced concrete piers to what was then the 100 year mark after the 1992 event: the entire downstairs had two feet of seawater in it and windows blown in: the tidal surge was incredibly powerful. Repairs are moving along and I moved back in upstairs. My HT is over the garage and was mostly unaffected. It is difficult to find a plumber, electrician, or any trade around here.
anyway: what are you guys doing to rack mount the 105?
Mark - sorry to hear about all the damage you suffered from Sandy.

Regarding rack mounting the 105, Oppo sells a rack mount bracket for it.
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post #905 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 04:21 PM
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Thanks for the replies: I ordered the Oppo rack mount kit
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post #906 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycjazz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I disagree. You seem to think that using SACD Output PCM must mean a loss of quality. That's simply not the case.
--Bob
Bob, this downsamples from 2.8MHz to 192KHz before it gets transferred to analog, so how is that not a loss of quality? I do find a difference between my SACDs and my DVD-As...Can you please explain? Thanks!

I don't think you understand how DSD works. That 2.8MHz refers to a stream of 1 bit samples. It is actually in the ballpark of an LPCM 90KHz 20-bit stream in terms of the quality inherent in the digital stream.

The difference you are hearing between the discs is almost certainly more to do with the quality of the performance and the care taken in the engineering of the recording more than it is in the use of DSD as the digital format on the SACDs.
--Bob


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post #907 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycjazz View Post

Bob, this downsamples from 2.8MHz to 192KHz before it gets transferred to analog, so how is that not a loss of quality? I do find a difference between my SACDs and my DVD-As...Can you please explain? Thanks!

It's not an apples-to-apples comparison. Courtesy of wikipedia:

"Because of the nature of sigma-delta converters, one cannot make a direct comparison between DSD and PCM. An approximation is possible, though, and would place DSD in some aspects comparable to a PCM format that has a bit depth of 20 bits and a sampling frequency of 96 kHz.[3] PCM sampled at 24 bits provides a (theoretical) additional 24 dB of dynamic range."

I like SACD a lot, but also like hi-rez PCM a lot, particularly Blu-ray profile 3 disks.

What matters the most is the attention paid to the recording. The sadly hard-to-find "Famous Sound of Three Blind Mice" CD sounds fantastic, and it's just Redbook.

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post #908 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 04:48 PM
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So far, most of the comparisons i have seen here for 2 channel stereo performance are against the 95 model. I am interested in SQ comparisons with other stand alone DACs, especially those featuring a digital volume control/preamp function (NAD M51, Anedio D2, etc). I am wondering where the 105 ranks against dedicated DACs costing up to $1500. I am really interested in the 105 because of the convenience of an all-in-one unit, unless there is too much of a compromise in 2CH SQ.

Has anyone here made direct comparisons with other dedicated DACs?

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post #909 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycjazz View Post

Bob, this downsamples from 2.8MHz to 192KHz before it gets transferred to analog, so how is that not a loss of quality? I do find a difference between my SACDs and my DVD-As...Can you please explain? Thanks!

You can read this to see the theory behind it.

In a nutshell once you sample an analog waveform high enough over 2x it's highest frequency content to account for use of a lowpass reconstruction filter that isn't too steep, sampling at a higher rate provides no benefit (other than marketing).

Also, many DAC chips use PCM inputs or convert DSD to PCM prior to conversion anyway. Not sure about the ESS Sabre chip.
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post #910 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 04:52 PM
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^ The Sabre in the 105 has the option to do DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion, but using that means forgoing any other audio processing in the player -- such as base management -- since such processing is done using LPCM digital audio.
--Bob


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post #911 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ The Sabre in the 105 has the option to do DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion, but using that means forgoing any other audio processing in the player -- such as base management -- since such processing is done using LPCM digital audio.
--Bob

And IMO forgoing that has a far more negative impact on sound than any improvement gained by doing dsd direct conversion. If oppo would just put a room correction processing stage in the next version I could do away with my 4311. biggrin.gif
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post #912 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by russ_777 View Post

And IMO forgoing that has a far more negative impact on sound than any improvement gained by doing dsd direct conversion. If oppo would just put a room correction processing stage in the next version I could do away with my 4311. biggrin.gif

Agreed. Good news is that this only applies to stereo DSD direct only, x.1 SACD should not be impacted, right?
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post #913 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russ_777 View Post

You can read this to see the theory behind it.
In a nutshell once you sample an analog waveform high enough over 2x it's highest frequency content to account for use of a lowpass reconstruction filter that isn't too steep, sampling at a higher rate provides no benefit (other than marketing).
Also, many DAC chips use PCM inputs or convert DSD to PCM prior to conversion anyway. Not sure about the ESS Sabre chip.

Ah, but you see--the sampling theorem assumes an infinite number of perfect samples and a perfect clock. We have nothing of the sort.

It's even in the article you cite: "In practice of course, infinite sequences, perfect sampling, and perfect interpolation are all replaced by approximations that detract from the mathematical ideal of perfect reconstruction."

Shannon's sampling theorem is a great example of the Spherical Cow. Unfortunately, way too many people forget that it represents an idealized situation.

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post #914 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Yes, so long as you are using SACD Output PCM. However, if the SACD you are playing has a Stereo layer, you would likely be better off playing that instead of the 5.1 layer down-mixed to stereo, as the stereo layer on the SACD disc is purpose-mixed for just that use.
--Bob
Thank you so much for being so helpful Bob. I will keep that in mind.
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post #915 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ The Sabre in the 105 has the option to do DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion, but using that means forgoing any other audio processing in the player -- such as base management -- since such processing is done using LPCM digital audio.
--Bob

Do I need to choose DSD-to-PCM option in order to redirect low frequency audio from Mains to Subwoofer in addition to setting speaker(s) as small?
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post #916 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 07:37 PM
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^ Yes. Set SACD Output PCM. Of course that's only relevant if you are playing an SACD.
--Bob


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post #917 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russ_777 View Post

And IMO forgoing that has a far more negative impact on sound than any improvement gained by doing dsd direct conversion. If oppo would just put a room correction processing stage in the next version I could do away with my 4311. biggrin.gif

There are no consumer devices than can apply any processing to DSD, it MUST be converted to PCM first. Likewise, any device that does bass management or EQ will need to digitize the signal to PCM first.
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post #918 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

OPPO Digital is now reselling the ROKU Streaming Stick at special, "BUNDLE" pricing!
http://www.oppodigital.com/products.asp
OPPO is selling an "OEM Version" of the ROKU Streaming Stick which does not include the ROKU remote control. This is because the regular OPPO remote for the 103/105 acts as the remote control for the ROKU when you are using the ROKU. (You select to use the ROKU using the Input button on the OPPO remote, or via the ROKU icon on Home Menu.)
Anybody can buy one of these OEM Version sticks direct from OPPO for $79.99 -- $20 off the pricing of the normal, retail version.
BUT WAIT!
If you buy a 103 or 105, you can get an even better "BUNDLE" pricing of $49.99 for the same thing!
And if you've ALREADY purchased a 103 or 105, you can STILL get the "BUNDLE" pricing simply by providing the serial number of your 103/105 to verify your purchase!
So the $79.99 pricing only applies if you want to buy an additional Stick for use with some OTHER "ROKU Ready" device (and don't need ROKU's own remote).
The ROKU Streaming Stick must be plugged into the FRONT HDMI Input socket of the 103/105.
Please note that the ROKU Streaming Stick can not be used with the older OPPO players, since they don't offer HDMI Input sockets.
Also please note that to use the ROKU Streaming Stick you MUST have Wifi set up in your house. The ROKU Streaming Stick has its own, built-in Wifi networking receiver (it doesn't use the networking of the 103/105), and it does NOT have a wired (Ethernet) option for networking.
The ROKU Streaming Stick comes with a 90 day Warranty from ROKU.
--Bob

So Bob does the 105 do Netflix 1080p and 5.1 without the Roku stick ?
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post #919 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 08:38 PM
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In any event I have a question, is the latest firmware installed on shipping 105's from Oppo?
I'm looking to replace my 95 that was stolen.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

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post #920 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

There are no consumer devices than can apply any processing to DSD, it MUST be converted to PCM first. Likewise, any device that does bass management or EQ will need to digitize the signal to PCM first.

Don't think I said otherwise, did I?
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post #921 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 08:57 PM
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Nice review! I'm looking forward to trying the 105 very soon:D

Yes great review, it seems it is well worth upgrading from the BDP-95

My humble Cinema
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post #922 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 09:02 PM
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So Bob does the 105 do Netflix 1080p and 5.1 without the Roku stick ?

Yes, indeed it does.

Furthermore, where there is already a native app on the 103/105, I recommend you use the native app rather than the version on the ROKU Streaming Stick.
--Bob


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post #923 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 10:11 PM
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I have had the BDP 105 for more than a week now.  I have not had any Oppo product before (and am definitely in the minority in this thread).  I was about to purchase the BDP 95, when I just happened to come across the announcement for this new generation.  After following both this and the previous "anticipation" thread closely, I decided to spring for the BDP 105.  This purchase is fulfilling several needs:
 

  • I haven't had a Blu-ray player so far (yes, I'm from the Triassic era), but I'm primarily interested in the audio (both stereo and multi-channel) side of things.  I'll be using only the analog connections (both dedicated stereo RCAs and multi-channel RCAs) to my preamp.
  • I'd really like a universal player for my several hundred SACD and and DVD-Audio discs that could replace both my Denon 5910CI and Sony SCD XA9000ES; right now, the Sony excels at two-channel CD and SACD playback (I particularly like its "Optional" filter on Red Book audio), while the Denon, which is equally great-sounding on SACDs, is capable of DVD-audio playback (which the Sony isn't).
  • I'm an avid vinyl enthusiast (my personal taste generally leans towards the sound of a well-mastered and pressed vinyl disc played back through my equipment, over its commercially-released Red Book equivalents). However, I do like the snap-crackle-pop-free playback of digital media, and have, for the past few years, come to a very workable solution for the vinyl quandary:  transfer vinyl to 24bits/96kHz digital audio using a very high-quality chain (with very sparingly applied manual pop-crackle removal), and burn DVD-audio discs of the hi-rez material.  In my environment, and to my ears, the hi-rez digital version sounds almost as good as the direct vinyl playback.  I've amassed many of these "albums" on hard drives, and something like the BDP 105 (or the 95) would finally give me the chance to play these back directly without going through the DVD-audio burning stage.
  • Did I mention that I'm from the Triassic era?  My TV does not have any network streaming applications, and I'd really like to use at least Netflix streaming without having to connect my computer to the TV.


My initial impression is that this is an amazing product with a versatility I've never seen before, and a sound that rivals that of most digital products that have been in my system.  I do have a couple of issues with the player, which I'll list in a separate post (as they are not deal-breakers by any account, and I think it's a keeper regardless).

 


For now, here're some initial observations on shiny disc playback, after some limited listening (all exclusively over analog connections, ensuring that I'm exploiting the BDP 105's real potential; format for SACDs was set to "DSD as PCM" on the BDP 105, and the Denon's SACD filter was set at 50 kHz):

Stereo playback (dedicated stereo outputs on all players):

 

  • DVD-audio: I'm really hoping that the reports of the sound improving with burn-in are accurate, since right now, the sound has a slightly harsh, over-etched upper midrange, a touch of graininess to transient decays (for ride cymbals, etc.), and slight general digital "glassiness".  The Denon 5910CI has not yet left my rack, since for this application, it currently sounds quite a bit better in my system.
  • SACD: Again, I've not been able to replace the Sony SCD XA9000ES yet, for precisely the same reasons as above (both the Sony and the Denon sound wonderful for stereo SACD playback in my system, with the Sony sometimes a tad warmer, and the Denon sometimes a tad more resolving).
  • Red Book audio: Ditto, with the Sony still retaining its clear edge over the new Oppo.  However, I must confess that I have yet to come across any CD playback in my particular system that can surpass the Sony's playback of standard CDs with its "Optional" filter engaged (including more expensive players than my $3K Sony that I've auditioned in my system), and it just might be a result of the particular combination of components in my system.


Multi-channel playback (analog 5.1 outputs on all players, bass management settings on the BDP 105 set identical to my standardized settings used with the Denon):
 

  • DVD-audio: Surprisingly, the BDP 105 already sounds almost as good as the Denon in this regard, and if the sound does get better with more burn-in: YES! I say "surprisingly" because I initially listened to stereo for a long time, with the results as described above, and as such, wasn't really expecting this.  I'm not sure that I can explain it either, though it could be due to a number of different factors.  However, I'm not going to be questioning a good thing!
  • SACD: Same as with multi-channel DVD-audio, compared to just the Denon (I had taken the Sony out of multi-channel SACD duties some time ago, due to its inability to correctly read some tracks on several of my multi-channel discs, and retained it solely for its two-channel playback, which has always been flawless).


So, I will be letting the hours build for two-channel playback on the BDP 105 before more critical comparisons to decide whether the Denon and/or the Sony leave my main system permanently (as I said, the BDP 105 is already a keeper for many other reasons).  The next on my agenda is to try out the direct hard-disc playback capabilities of the BDP 105.

Oh, BTW, I did watch a movie --- the Blu-ray special edition of Avatar --- with the BDP 105 set to output 1080i (limited by my older Pioneer plasma display), and it looked and sounded spectacular
smile.gif.
 


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post #924 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 10:38 PM
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This from the same guy that mentioned "Perils of Pauline"? biggrin.gif
Since this is my first Oppo player I was nervous of bricking it somehow. However I just downloaded the 1205B Public Beta firmware to my computer and then was automatically prompted to burn the iso file onto a CD. Inserted the burned CD disc into the Oppo BDP-105 and it uploaded sucessfully. The only out of sequence event was that I had to eject the disc since the player shut off after updating as it is supposed to do.Then had to power cycle it and reset to factory defaults. It was very easy and relatively quick. Next trip to BB buy a USB thumb drive.
I got an PNY 8GB flash drive, this was the right format FAT32. At first I forgot to set the computer to download to the flash drive and had to download again. Very slow process with dail-up took over 10 hours to download the firware file.

The upgrade fixed the HDMI 1 and Directv lip sync issue I had. Thanks for the help!
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post #925 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 10:42 PM
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As reported by several others, my BDP 105 is also having trouble recognizing the SACD layer on hybrid discs (which show up as CDs), and needs multiple, repeated ejections and re-loadings to recognize them as SACDs.  Even then, it's hit-and-miss during a particular session.

 

Unfortunately, this happened with the very first SACD I tried with it, Steely Dan's Gaucho (Hybrid SACD, MCA B0000868-36), and a few discs later, with Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road (Hybrid SACD, 30th. Anniv. Deluxe Edition, Island B0001570-36).  Fortunately, it has not happened with any of the other thirty odd discs I have tried with it, just to check this problem out (it'll take me some time to try it out on the hundreds I have!).  However, neither my Sony SCD XA9000ES nor my Denon 5910CI (or older Denon 3910) have ever exhibited this issue with any of my discs.

 

I do hope that this can be fixed with a firmware tweak to the algorithm used by Oppo to determine the disc type on initial loading.  I'm currently running firmware version BDP10X-33-1018, and will report this to Oppo tech. support and see what they say.

 


Secondly, I'm curious about why the display always shows that the track type is "SACD PCM" for all SACD playback, regardless of whether the SACD output has been set to "DSD" or "PCM" in Audio Format Setup.  Shouldn't it show "SACD DSD" if direct DSD output has been chosen (I'm not using the HDMI output, just direct analog outputs), or is direct DSD (before analog conversion) not working in my player?  BTW, I can honestly not make out any audible difference between the two settings rolleyes.gif.

 


Finally, I've not been able to figure out how to switch to the CD layer of a Hybrid SACD disc (that was correctly recognized as a SACD biggrin.gif).  The Audio button just toggles between the stereo and multi-channel SACD tracks (according to the display), even with SACD Priority set to "CD mode".  I couldn't find anything in the manual that covered this; does anyone know how to do this?  TIA.


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post #926 of 11531 Old 12-09-2012, 11:44 PM
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I have now come to the conclusion after much research this weekend that using the DSD Direct-to-Analog option is not a wise one for your HT system. Simply look at the high energy ultra-sonics noise DSD generates at 20kHz and beyond, which is NOT related to your music at all. The noise shape shown below is there, always constant regardless of the music off the SACD.

 

SACD DSD PLOT  (HOME THEATER SECRETS REVIEW OF THE BDP-105)      

OPPO BDP-105

 

 

SACD LPCM PLOT(HOME THEATER SECRETS REVIEW OF THE BDP-105)

OPPO BDP-105

 

The ultrasonics signals are easily passed on to your pre-amp & pre-pro due to their high input bandwidth sections. They are then passed on to your amplifier and amplified as well for most amps have full power bandwidth specs well within the ultrasonics frequencies. These amplified signals are passed  on to speakers tweeters which HATE producing constant high energy noise. Who knows what the short term and long term effects this energy would do to your speaker system.

 

I fail to see why one would prefer to have these frequencies to pass within their system. And why is this supposed to sound superior to the human ear?

 

Can't it be that these ultrasonics could modulate somehow with the music and produce in-band phase and amplitude distortions as a result?

 

When the DSD is converted to LPCM in the Oppo at 88.2kHz, they are reduced by 20dB or more due to the very steep 50kHz filter within the Sabre DACs so they are not much of a problem to the tweeters in your speakers.

 

The other nice thing about the LPCM mode is that if you have a prepro/AVR that can upsample your inputs to 192kHz (like my Anthem D2v), these ultra-sonics are pushed out in frequency by a factor of roughly 2.2 (192kHz /88.2kHz). Meaning that instead of having the peak at 40kHz or so, its pushed out to 87kHz where the reconsruction filter in the prepro/AVR attenuates these frequencies plus the filtering effect of your power amp's bandwidth and definately by your tweeter crossover filter.

 

In summary, the so-called 'advantages' of Direct-to-Analog are by far are outweighed in many respects by conversions to LPCM. The objective science clearly proves that w/o a shadow of a doubt.


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post #927 of 11531 Old 12-10-2012, 12:18 AM
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I wish US video reviewers were just as practical. They go into many worded details about the visual qualities of an image. After all, a picture speaks a thousand words. A few high quality before/after image comparisons would be enough and much more helpful than the cheesy and endless poetry & pose these reviewers go into trying to describe an image ...

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Kudos to Nicolas Bécuwe for such a stunning and unrushed evaluation. Eyes glazed over after a while with the intensity of the content, but because the guy went to great effort to compile this review I am going to show my appreciation by reading the whole lot again when I'm less tired. If others were to make the same efforts so quickly after a products release the world would be a much happier place smile.gif

Doing the jobs American reviewers won't...

His snapshots of BR Source Direct (which is without QDEO processing) vs 1080p (which is with) show more dramatic differences than I would expect. He is obviously a fan of tweaking the player Picture Adjustments. Does he say the with and without examples are both at settings "0", or has he adjusted for maximum subjective benefit? (I need to study his text more closely as well).

-Bill

 

Bill ....i asked him myself and he responded below:

 

Thank you for your comment. My greetings AVS forum members ;)

Yes, I use thesis Qdeo settings (it depends on the movie):

Brightness: -1
Contrast: 2
Sharpness: 1 or 2
Contrast Enhancement: 1

With the old DVD movies or videos slightly bland, I also use Color Enhancement : +1

 

 

So these images in his reviews were obtained by manipulating the Qdeo settings and not in the default Oppo video settings mode...


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post #928 of 11531 Old 12-10-2012, 01:24 AM
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The ultrasonics signals are easily passed on to your pre-amp & pre-pro due to their high input bandwidth sections. They are then passed on to your amplifier and amplified as well for most amps have full power bandwidth specs well within the ultrasonics frequencies. These amplified signals are passed  on to speakers tweeters which HATE producing constant high energy noise. Who knows what the short term and long term effects this energy would do to your speaker system.

The two graphs look almost the same out to 40k. How many amplifiers and speakers actually reproduce above 40k, or for that matter above 30k?

You can reproduce ultrasonics, but you have to work at it. For example, by adding an ultra-tweeter.

Ironically, some people go out of their way to add ultra-tweeters, which apparently will be used to reproduce almost nothing but noise.
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post #929 of 11531 Old 12-10-2012, 04:06 AM
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Dmusoke,
I don't believe you have interpreted those SACD charts correctly.

When DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion is in effect, a 50KHz filter is applied (in the DAC) to trim the high ultrasonics which are screwed up by DSD quantization noise magnified up there by SACD Noise Shaping. But since that chart doesn't show above 50KHz you don't see it!

When LPCM is in use, the intentional rate limit to 88.2KHz discards frequencies above 44.1KHz due to the math governing how digital sampling works. Thus you DO see the attenuation kicking in before the LPCM chart tops out at 50KHz. There is no 50KHz filter. It just happens automagically due to the sampling rate.

The real problem in noise floor is higher up, and *BOTH* methods of SACD playback on the Analog outs are designed to eliminate that.

My point being, when using the OPPO's Analog outs, your reason to avoid DSD does not hold. The ultrasonics get trimmed off that way too.
--Bob


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post #930 of 11531 Old 12-10-2012, 05:23 AM
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I got an PNY 8GB flash drive, this was the right format FAT32. At first I forgot to set the computer to download to the flash drive and had to download again. Very slow process with dail-up took over 10 hours to download the firware file.
The upgrade fixed the HDMI 1 and Directv lip sync issue I had. Thanks for the help!

Oh well, the sound still lags the video but not as much I think after fiirmware update. If I use HDMI 2 the sync is in time, but then the HDMI 1 outlet is recommended for best video or does it even matter? I can't say I see a difference, but didn't really try to compare. To explain again, this lip sync issue only happens when using HDMI 1 to tv and analog audio out to audio system.
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