Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 311 - AVS Forum

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DanF8500's Avatar DanF8500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

Is anyone else still having problems upgrading over the network?

Every time I try I am told that my machine cannot connect to the server and so was not ugpraded.

Yet the Network test and Pandora and YouTube work just fine.
I might have an answer for you. Are you trying to connect to the internet from your Oppo via wireless? If you are, are you using WEP encryption? If yes, then you've been affected by a bug that Oppo introduced in a previous firmware build regarding this wifi encryption method. Oppo has resolved this issue in the latest official release, which is the release you are trying to download. Here's their description of the bug fix for the latest build:

7. Resolved the Wi-Fi connection failure with access points or routers using WEP security. This error was introduced by 67-1204 firmware and this version corrects it.

If this is applicable to your failure to connect to the internet, you have a few choices:
1. To download the latest Oppo firmware from your computer, place it on a usb thumb drive, and install that firmware to your Oppo via usb.
2. Get an ethernet cable, and make a hard-wired connection from your router to your Oppo player, then change your connection method on your Oppo player to be able to connect to the internet.
3. Change the Wifi encryption method on your router to WPA2 instead of WEP, then make the appropriate changes in the network setup area of your Oppo player. If you do this, you would have to make changes to all your wifi devices that access your router also (new WPA2 encryption key).

I think choice 1 would be what I would do. It's the least intrusive. Again, this only applies to you if you meet the criteria I stated above.
pvanosta's Avatar pvanosta
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I have a big problem with all things SACD and DSD since the latest firmware upgrade.

I can no longer play SACD in DSD, let alone stream DSD files via LAN or from USB.

The player will only play the files (or the SACD) if I switch the output to 'Auto', in which case the display tells me it is playing SACD-PCM and not SACD-DSD.


If I force it to DSD in the output selection, I get loud hiss and not much else.

Help ??
DanF8500's Avatar DanF8500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvanosta View Post

I have a big problem with all things SACD and DSD since the latest firmware upgrade.

I can no longer play SACD in DSD, let alone stream DSD files via LAN or from USB.

The player will only play the files (or the SACD) if I switch the output to 'Auto', in which case the display tells me it is playing SACD-PCM and not SACD-DSD.


If I force it to DSD in the output selection, I get loud hiss and not much else.

Help ??
What outputs are you using on your 105? Are you using the analog outputs, or are you using the 105's hdmi 2 output to pass the dsd audio to a pre-pro/AVR?
pvanosta's Avatar pvanosta
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Thanks Dan,
I am using the balanced analog outputs to my Parasound JC2 BP preamp.
DanF8500's Avatar DanF8500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvanosta View Post

Thanks Dan,
I am using the balanced analog outputs to my Parasound JC2 BP preamp.
Okay. I will assume you're using the 105's hdmi 1 output direct to your tv/display. If that is not correct, let me know. Here is an explanation of the functionality of the SACD Output setting since the latest Oppo beta and official firmware builds.

"SACD Output":
- DSD : forces DSD and mutes any hdmi audio to components connected to it that can't accept DSD.
- PCM: always converts DSD to PCM.
- Auto: use DSD if possible, but convert to PCM if an A/V component connected to one of the HDMI outputs can't accept DSD.

In addition, the front panel "SACD" and "PCM" indicators are now meaningful for all dsd media. If the Oppo's front panel shows SACD without the PCM light on, then the Oppo player is doing DSD-direct-to-analog. If the Oppo's front panel has both SACD and PCM lighted, then your player is converting DSD to PCM.

Which "Display" did you say you were looking at? Your player's front panel indicators or the "Track Type" value on the Oppo's onscreen display while playing back an audio track?
wse's Avatar wse
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When OPPO comes out with the next generation, I sure hope they are HDMI 2.0 or better as well as including DIRAC wink.gif
pvanosta's Avatar pvanosta
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Thanks again Dan,
I hnk I understand where you're going with your questions, so let me provide more detail.

The OPPO is connected in 3 ways:

HDMI 1 out to AVR (Pioneer), which is switched OFF when not watching TV or movies

HDMI2 to TV (LG 60-inch Plasma)

Balanced analog out to Parasound JC2-BP

When watching TV, the pioneer is on and the Parasound is switched to Bypass.

When listening to music, the Pioneer is OFF, the Parasound is switched to input 1 (balanced) and I view the OPPO's actions on the TV, from the HDMI2 output directly to the display.

The player has been reset to factory defaults, just in case and it still does the same hing. Playing a SACD disc, if I switch the output to DSD, I get a lot of loud hiss along with the music.
If I switch to AUTO, I get clean music but in SACD-PCM (as per the info on my TV display).

Let me know if that helps.

Am I missing an output setting in one of the menus?
pvanosta's Avatar pvanosta
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Dan,

I think I figured something out, reading between the lines of your questions.

I just switched HDMI Audio output to 'off' and then switched SACD output back to DSD output, and voila! Crisp, clean sound.

It strikes me that I never had to do that before, but then again, perhaps I did not know the sound was being output to SACD-PCM ?

Any thoughts on that?
DanF8500's Avatar DanF8500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvanosta View Post

Dan,

I think I figured something out, reading between the lines of your questions.

I just switched HDMI Audio output to 'off' and then switched SACD output back to DSD output, and voila! Crisp, clean sound.

It strikes me that I never had to do that before, but then again, perhaps I did not know the sound was being output to SACD-PCM ?

Any thoughts on that?
haha....I was just replying to you about that, and I see you beat me to it. The reason you were hearing noise is because you had "hdmi 2" connected to your tv. Remember, hdmi 2 on the 105 carries DSD audio, and when you set SACD Output to DSD, that forced a DSD stream on hdmi 2 regardless if the receiving component (in your case, your tv) could decode dsd or not....that explains the noise you were hearing, because no tv I know of can decode dsd streams. By turning hdmi audio to "OFF", your tv won't have to decode any audio from hdmi 2. The conversion of dsd to pcm when SACD Output is set to Auto was correct also, since your tv can't decode dsd audio, the 105 converted dsd to pcm before outputting via the hdmi 2 connection.
pvanosta's Avatar pvanosta
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Thanks !

So: if I wanted to avoid having to go through these menus every time I want to listed to a SACD, should I switch HDMI 1 and 2 around and only have HDMI 1 with video output connected to my TV?

If I undertsnd it correctly, in that scenario, I would be able to leave HDMI audio output to 'on', but I would need to switch HDMI INPUT on the TV whenever I want to watch a movie instead of cable TV.

The cable TV goes via HDMI to the Pioneer AVR and then from there to HDMI 1 IN on the TV.

The Oppo goes hdmi 2 out to the AVR for sound (which does not prevent the DSD output when it is switched off) and HDMI 1 out directly to TV HDMI 2 IN for picture.

My head hurts, but I think this would work...
DanF8500's Avatar DanF8500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvanosta View Post

Thanks !

So: if I wanted to avoid having to go through these menus every time I want to listen to a SACD, should I switch HDMI 1 and 2 around and only have HDMI 1 with video output connected to my TV?

If I undertsnd it correctly, in that scenario, I would be able to leave HDMI audio output to 'on', but I would need to switch HDMI INPUT on the TV whenever I want to watch a movie instead of cable TV.

The cable TV goes via HDMI to the Pioneer AVR and then from there to HDMI 1 IN on the TV.

The Oppo goes hdmi 2 out to the AVR for sound (which does not prevent the DSD output when it is switched off) and HDMI 1 out directly to TV HDMI 2 IN for picture.

My head hurts, but I think this would work...
I deleted my comments from this post, because of an inaccurate explanation provided by Oppo Cust. Support about the functionality of the SACD Output setting when "DSD" is selected with regards to the Oppo player's hdmi 2 output.

Read the replies provided below by Bob.
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau
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The handshake with his TV should have returned that the TV could not accept HDMI DSD -- and thus audio should have been muted on that output when SACD Output DSD was selected.

It's possible his TV is returning bogus information about its ability to accept HDMI DSD.
--Bob
pvanosta's Avatar pvanosta
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Thanks again, but no.

The TV sound is always muted. No sound ever comes from the TV, regardless of the source. The hiss came from my main front speakers, fed by the Parasound JC2-BP and the Bel Canto Ref1000M monoblocks, all-balanced chain.

So I think I do need to switch out the HDMI cables on the back of the OPPO.

The TV will only get a video signal from the Oppo, which has no impact on the SACD output on the OPPO.
The AVR will be switched off when listening to music, so again the OPPO cannot get 'confused'.
DanF8500's Avatar DanF8500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The handshake with his TV should have returned that the TV could not accept HDMI DSD -- and thus audio should have been muted on that output when SACD Output DSD was selected.

It's possible his TV is returning bogus information about its ability to accept HDMI DSD.
--Bob
Bob, he was using hdmi 2 output to the tv. The new Oppo firmware has changed since you've been gone. New functionality with regards to the SACD Output setting...
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The handshake with his TV should have returned that the TV could not accept HDMI DSD -- and thus audio should have been muted on that output when SACD Output DSD was selected.

It's possible his TV is returning bogus information about its ability to accept HDMI DSD.
--Bob
Bob, he was using hdmi 2 output to the tv. The new Oppo firmware has changed since you've been gone. New functionality with regards to the SACD Output setting...

Yes, I'm familiar with the changes. The new meaning of SACD Output DSD is to send DSD to each audio output that can handle it (which always includes the Analog outputs) and to MUTE audio on each audio output that can't handle it. NOTE: This is different from the DSD setting in prior firmware.

So audio should have been muted on HDMI 2 if his TV properly reported it could not accept HDMI DSD.

The new AUTO setting (which as also the new default setting) uses DSD for ALL outputs if and only if all active outputs can accept DSD, otherwise it uses PCM for ALL active outputs. (The S/PDIF outputs are never active for SACD playback due to licensing restrictions.) NOTE: The new AUTO setting thus matches the function of the DSD setting in prior firmware.

As before the PCM choice uses PCM for all active outputs.
--Bob
DanF8500's Avatar DanF8500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Yes, I'm familiar with the changes. The new meaning of SACD Output DSD is to send DSD to each audio output that can handle it (which always includes the Analog outputs) and to MUTE audio on each audio output that can't handle it.

So audio should have been muted on HDMI 2 if his TV properly reported it could not accept HDMI DSD.

The new AUTO setting uses DSD for ALL outputs if and only if all active outputs can accept DSD, otherwise it uses PCM for ALL active outputs. (The S/PDIF outputs are never active for SACD playback due

--Bob
Bob, that's not the way Oppo told me how the new functionality of SACD Ouput works. Now I'm confused...
pvanosta's Avatar pvanosta
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Thanks Bob and Dan, It is great to have both of you chiming in on this (what to most will be a 'niche' subject at best).

If I understand correctly, on the OPPO, when both HDMI outputs are in use, HDMI 1 outputs video, while HDMI 2 outputs audio, unless you set both outputs to do both.

If the above is correct and unless there is a setting which allows me to only 'kill' HDMI audio on the output to the TV, should I not switch the cables, so that I feed HDMI 1 out (video only) to the TV and HDMI 2 out to the AVR?
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvanosta View Post

Thanks Bob and Dan, It is great to have both of you chiming in on this (what to most will be a 'niche' subject at best).

If I understand correctly, on the OPPO, when both HDMI outputs are in use, HDMI 1 outputs video, while HDMI 2 outputs audio, unless you set both outputs to do both.

If the above is correct and unless there is a setting which allows me to only 'kill' HDMI audio on the output to the TV, should I not switch the cables, so that I feed HDMI 1 out (video only) to the TV and HDMI 2 out to the AVR?

When both HDMI outputs are "live", what happens on each is governed by your choice of Split A/V or Dual Display. The normal choice, Split A/V, will send the best video the display can handle on HDMI 1 and will mute audio on HDMI 1. Meanwhile HDMI 2 will carry the best audio the AVR can handle with a "safe" video output format suitable for carrying that audio. (In HDMI audio is embedded in the "blanking intervals" of video, so there must always be video to carry audio -- even if the video is just a black screen.)

From this it should be obvious that if you are going to use Split A/V with two cables connected, then HDMI 2 should go to the AVR (for audio) and HDMI 1 should go to the Display (for video).

The alternate choice, Dual Display, will send audio and video on both outputs, but quite likely at the expense of selecting a compromise output format for both the video and the audio.

If only one cable is "live" (either one), then the Split A/V vs. Dual Display choice is ignored, and best audio and video are both sent on that one, live connection.

The 103 and 105 (but not the 103D and 105D) also have the added restriction that HDMI DSD can only be output on the HDMI 2 connection. The 103D and 105D can output that on both HDMI 1 and HDMI 2.
--Bob
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Yes, I'm familiar with the changes. The new meaning of SACD Output DSD is to send DSD to each audio output that can handle it (which always includes the Analog outputs) and to MUTE audio on each audio output that can't handle it.

So audio should have been muted on HDMI 2 if his TV properly reported it could not accept HDMI DSD.

The new AUTO setting uses DSD for ALL outputs if and only if all active outputs can accept DSD, otherwise it uses PCM for ALL active outputs. (The S/PDIF outputs are never active for SACD playback due

--Bob
Bob, that's not the way Oppo told me how the new functionality of SACD Ouput works. Now I'm confused...

In my testing, SACD Output DSD works as I've described it. If the device at the other end of the cable can not accept HDMI DSD, then audio is muted on that HDMI connection. However, DSD is still sent to the DACs for the Analog output. If you are finding that HDMI DSD is being forced to a device that can't handle it, then either the device is misreporting its capabilities or you have found a bug.
--Bob
pvanosta's Avatar pvanosta
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Thanks Bob,
S let me see if I understand everything:

1. When only 1 HDMI output is 'live' (i.e. the device on the other end if the cable is ON), the OPPO will push both audio and video through to the device
2. In that case, the OPPO will TRY to send DSD to the TV in this case.
3. The TV can obviously not accept a DSD signal

What SHOULD happen then, is that the OPPO mutes the audio signal on the HDMI and, at the same time, it should still send the clean DSD signal through the OPPO DAC to the analog balanced output.

In other words: what I am asking it to do, it should do without any further intervention on my part.

And yet, unless I kill HDMI audio out in the Oppo menu, I cannot play back DSD through my analog outs. I get loud hiss unless I switch audio out to OFF on the HDMI in the menu., OR unless I switch SACD output to PCM

Would that constitute a possible / likely bug?
dbphd's Avatar dbphd
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After weeks of trying to get WiFi up on my BDP-105, I moved the dongle to the front input and it came up instantly. Previously it would occasionally show a connection but not download the latest firmware, but last night it downloaded the latest firmware and let us enjoy House Of Cards with our HT setup. Strange, because the BDP-95 latched onto WiFi instantly and reliably, and its farther away from the router than the BDP-105. I'd already arranged for ethernet to be reestablished from the router to the BDP-105.

db
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvanosta View Post

Thanks Bob,
S let me see if I understand everything:

1. When only 1 HDMI output is 'live' (i.e. the device on the other end if the cable is ON), the OPPO will push both audio and video through to the device
2. In that case, the OPPO will TRY to send DSD to the TV in this case.
3. The TV can obviously not accept a DSD signal

What SHOULD happen then, is that the OPPO mutes the audio signal on the HDMI and, at the same time, it should still send the clean DSD signal through the OPPO DAC to the analog balanced output.

In other words: what I am asking it to do, it should do without any further intervention on my part.

And yet, unless I kill HDMI audio out in the Oppo menu, I cannot play back DSD through my analog outs. I get loud hiss unless I switch audio out to OFF on the HDMI in the menu., OR unless I switch SACD output to PCM

Would that constitute a possible / likely bug?

A couple clarifications. First, some HDMI devices keep their HDMI sockets "live" even when the device is OFF. If you have two devices cabled, it may not be sufficient to turn off the unused device -- or even change it to listen on another of its inputs -- to make that connection no longer "live". One of the more common reasons devices do this is so that they can implement HDMI CEC (remote control over the HDMI cable) -- another example of larding things onto the HDMI spec with unintended consequences.

But let's assume it really is the case that only the one cable is live. What happens when you play DSD content depends on your choice of SACD Output setting and what the device at the other end of the cable reports as to whether it can accept HDMI DSD input.

If that sole HDMI device reports it can *NOT* accept HDMI DSD, then:

1) With SACD Output PCM or SACD Output AUTO set, you will get HDMI LPCM, and PCM will also be sent to the DACs for Analog output. NOTE: You can set HDMI AUDIO OFF to get DSD sent to the DACs for Analog output.

2) With SACD Output DSD set, audio will be muted on that HDMI cable and DSD will be sent to the DACs for Analog output.

It is helpful to keep in mind that the player can not do DSD and PCM simultaneously. Thus if DSD is going to ANY output, then DSD must be going to ALL other outputs or those outputs must be muted.

The PCM choice does not try to use DSD.

The DSD choice prioritizes using DSD wherever possible and mutes the rest. I.e., only connections that can handle DSD will have audio,

The AUTO choice on the other hand prioritizes having audio on all the connections, so it uses PCM for all of them unless they can ALL handle DSD, in which case it uses DSD for all of them.

The Analog DACs are always capable of using DSD, so the only question is the capabilities of the "live" HDMI connections.

And in any event, the S/PDIF (Optical/Coax) will be muted regardless of what's going on with the other outputs, since that type of cabling is not licensed to cary SACD content.



You should never get the loud hiss you report when playing DSD content. So yes, that's a bug. The question is, a bug where? Is your TV misreporting its capabilities, or is the OPPO not handling that correctly?
--Bob
gsr's Avatar gsr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphd View Post

After weeks of trying to get WiFi up on my BDP-105, I moved the dongle to the front input and it came up instantly. Previously it would occasionally show a connection but not download the latest firmware, but last night it downloaded the latest firmware and let us enjoy House Of Cards with our HT setup. Strange, because the BDP-95 latched onto WiFi instantly and reliably, and its farther away from the router than the BDP-105. I'd already arranged for ethernet to be reestablished from the router to the BDP-105.

db
If you want the dongle somewhere in the back, try using the USB extension cable that Oppo included - that's what it's for wink.gif.
dbphd's Avatar dbphd
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House of Cards on the BDP-105 offered the option of subtitles whereas it doesn't on the BDP-95. The sound is impressive with the 4.1 HT setup and the dialog clear, but dialog is difficult in the BDP-95 setup whether with the very good speakers of the Sony 46 XBR8 or with the 2.1 setup of KEF Reference 102/2s driven by a Proceed Amp 2. The 102/2s and Amp 2 setup is surprisingly good for jazz and chamber groups, so it's something to do with the program material as streamed from Netflix to the BDP-95.

db
DanF8500's Avatar DanF8500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

In my testing, SACD Output DSD works as I've described it. If the device at the other end of the cable can not accept HDMI DSD, then audio is muted on that HDMI connection. However, DSD is still sent to the DACs for the Analog output. If you are finding that HDMI DSD is being forced to a device that can't handle it, then either the device is misreporting its capabilities or you have found a bug.
--Bob
Yes, I believe I was correct in my post (9305 above, which equates to your explanation), but somehow became confused after Oppo replied to another owner about the functionality of "the SACD Output set to DSD and the "forced" output of DSD on hdmi 2 regardless of the downstream equipment's capabilities"....Oppo was incorrect for saying that. I'm on the same page as you now...thanks!

The only bug that a few of us have discovered in the past day regarding DSD playback and when SACD Output is set to DSD is an Oppo onscreen text-based gui error with regards to the Track Type output of the dsd audio file (.dsf/.dff) being played back. If your Oppo player has only hdmi 2 active (hdmi 1 completely open/not connected), then the Oppo onscreen output for "Track Type" will show "DSD to PCM" even though the player's front panel indicator shows only "SACD" and the receiving component (AVR) from Oppo's hdmi 2 output is showing it's receiving/decoding DSD audio.
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau
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^ Well if the current firmware lets it "force" DSD on HDMI 2 despite what the device at the other end says, I would certainly consider that a bug.

I don't use HDMI 2 in my normal setup.

(Forcing functions are used to handle known cases where devices CAN accept an input format but fail to publish that. Projectors seem to be the worst offenders here, both for /24 and for 3D -- thus the forcing options in Setup for those. I've not heard of any case where a sound processor can accept HDMI DSD but fails to publish that, thus a forcing option would be pointless -- not to mention nasty.)
--Bob
dbphd's Avatar dbphd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

If you want the dongle somewhere in the back, try using the USB extension cable that Oppo included - that's what it's for wink.gif.

gsr,

Will any USB cable do? I have several sitting around, but I'd have to go into the attic and rummage through the BDP-105 carton to find the one Oppo included.

db
Bob Pariseau's Avatar Bob Pariseau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphd View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

If you want the dongle somewhere in the back, try using the USB extension cable that Oppo included - that's what it's for wink.gif.

gsr,

Will any USB cable do? I have several sitting around, but I'd have to go into the attic and rummage through the BDP-105 carton to find the one Oppo included.

db

You need a USB extender cable: plug on one end and socket on the other. Any extender cable will do, there's nothing special about the OPPO provided version except that it has a stand at the socket end to keep things looking tidy.
--Bob
DanF8500's Avatar DanF8500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Well if the current firmware lets it "force" DSD on HDMI 2 despite what the device at the other end says, I would certainly consider that a bug.

I don't use HDMI 2 in my normal setup.

(Forcing functions are used to handle known cases where devices CAN accept an input format but fail to publish that. Projectors seem to be the worst offenders here, both for /24 and for 3D -- thus the forcing options in Setup for those. I've not heard of any case where a sound processor can accept HDMI DSD but fails to publish that, thus a forcing option would be pointless -- not to mention nasty.)
--Bob
I don't use hdmi 2 either. I was only helping someone in the 103 forum work out a verified bug in the new firmware.....here's what we found....

It's a bug regarding DSD playback, when SACD Output is set to DSD. It only affects playback of dsd audio files (.dsf/.dff). If your Oppo player has only hdmi 2 active (hdmi 1 completely open/not connected), then the Oppo onscreen output for "Track Type" will show "DSD to PCM" even though the player's front panel indicator shows only "SACD" and the receiving component (AVR) from Oppo's hdmi 2 output is showing it's receiving/decoding DSD audio.
JohnAV's Avatar JohnAV
01:40 PM Liked: 84
post #9330 of 11986
02-23-2014 | Posts: 6,540
Joined: Jun 2007
Comcast and Netflix made up, your Netflix playback should be quite improved starting today. No more non-direct routing to get to a Netflix host.
Tags: Oppo Bdp 105 Blu Ray Player

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