Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 334 - AVS Forum
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post #9991 of 11436 Old 04-12-2014, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Process53 View Post

I can identify with this completely. Just today, after reading Omar's posts about the Distance Settings, I zeroed mine and viola! Beautiful full sound like I never had before. So that makes another one of us who defies logic.

Yeah, that's pretty much the same experience I have smile.gif dunno exactly what to do.
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post #9992 of 11436 Old 04-12-2014, 07:59 PM
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Yeah the 7.1 vs 5.1 is a lot more subtle. In fact I'm not sure I even hear a difference on that. But this Distance thing...wow.

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post #9993 of 11436 Old 04-12-2014, 08:00 PM
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^ Process, what were the values of your previous speaker distance settings before you set them all to 0?
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post #9994 of 11436 Old 04-12-2014, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Process53 View Post

Yeah the 7.1 vs 5.1 is a lot more subtle. In fact I'm not sure I even hear a difference on that. But this Distance thing...wow.

7.1 vs 5.1 was something I discovered on the 95, I've not rechallenged it on the 105. The distance trims I just did again last week.

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post #9995 of 11436 Old 04-12-2014, 08:04 PM
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^ Process, what were the values of your previous speaker distance settings before you set them all to 0?
L C R 9 ft
SL SR - 3.75 ft.

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post #9996 of 11436 Old 04-12-2014, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Process53 View Post

L C R 9 ft
SL SR - 3.75 ft.
Ok. Since the distance setting only takes effect on deltas between different speaker distances, if you had set your L C R to 3.75 or your SL SR to 9 (all the same), you should receive the same effect as if all your distances were set to 0.
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post #9997 of 11436 Old 04-12-2014, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Ok. Since the distance setting only takes effect on deltas between different speaker distances, if you had set your L C R to 3.75 or your SL SR to 9 (all the same), you should receive the same effect as if all your distances were set to 0.
I haven't tried that. What would that accomplish anyway? Frankly, I'm very happy setting them all to 0.

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post #9998 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 12:27 AM
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I haven't tried that. What would that accomplish anyway? Frankly, I'm very happy setting them all to 0.
Just for comparison's sake. By you setting all your distances the same (regardless whether they were all set to 0 or 9 or 3.75), you removed a delta distance of 5.25 ft between your fronts and surrounds. That's a substantial enough delta to affect the overall audio effect and would be noticeable by most everyone. Had your delta distance only been a foot or less (per Bob's example above), you probably, just like Bob, would not have noticed any change in your overall before and after audio effect. In the end, what matters above anything else is the sound "we" prefer in our system, whether it is functionally right or wrong.
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post #9999 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 01:03 AM
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^ Dan, so you're thinking it's not just the fact that the distance processing is turned on, but the amount of differential compensation that makes a noticeable change in sound?

Something i was thinking to do as an experiment, would be to temporarily move my sitting position a few feet forward, so i would be equidistant from all my speakers, and then see what difference would happen with and without the compensation.

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post #10000 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 07:39 AM
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Dan, so you're thinking it's not just the fact that the distance processing is turned on, but the amount of differential compensation that makes a noticeable change in sound?

Yes, Omar, that is my belief, however, let me re-clarify. After testing small and large delta distances, it's my position that I cannot sense any measurable differences from simply enabling distance processing (by creating a small delta distance between a set of speakers). When I think of Front-Back distance compensation, I think of a fader control, and when I think of Right-Left compensation, I think of balance control. I get the same audio effect in my car when I adjust the fader and balance controls. When driving, the left front speaker(here in the US) is closer to me than the right front speaker is. Adjusting the balance in this case will recenter the stereo imaging per my position. This is exactly what I'm hearing when I modify my delta distance on the 105 for my right-left speaker positioning. Increasing my right speaker delta distance makes the stereo imaging move more toward my left speaker. The same effect happens, albeit a front/back effect, when there is a delta distance compensation between the front and rear/surround speakers. This is what I'm hearing when I adjust the 105 speaker distances. When the delta distance is minutely small (say .5 ft), I cannot sense any difference in audio effect. I'll be honest though, I have spent many years listening to audio in my car, and I always do most of my listening with no compensation, meaning up-front audio (no fader set) and no right-left compensation (no balance), even though my sitting position (obviously) is not optimal between all my speakers. Then again, I don't critically listen to audio in my car....I want the sound right up front, first and foremost, to minimize having to crank up my car audio volume to compensate for constant noise disturbances.
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post #10001 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by OmarF View Post

Honestly guys, I'm a bit tired now as I work nights and have to get to sleep..

Downmix: 7.1
All speakers: Large
Subwoofer: Yes
Distances: 0.0 (or all the same, per Dan's
Nytal, Omar

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Also why distances at 0?
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post #10002 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 10:01 AM
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Yeah the 7.1 vs 5.1 is a lot more subtle. In fact I'm not sure I even hear a difference on that. But this Distance thing...wow.

Seriously the distance makes that much of an impact? I don't get it why is that eek.gif
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post #10003 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 10:25 AM
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Seriously the distance makes that much of an impact? I don't get it why is that eek.gif
Because the theory is that when set all to 0 the Distance Processing is turned off. When you plug in some values Distance Processing is turned on but it is not working correctly.

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post #10004 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 12:27 PM
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Dan, so you're thinking it's not just the fact that the distance processing is turned on, but the amount of differential compensation that makes a noticeable change in sound?

Yes, Omar, that is my belief, however, let me re-clarify. After testing small and large delta distances, it's my position that I cannot sense any measurable differences from simply enabling distance processing (by creating a small delta distance between a set of speakers). When I think of Front-Back distance compensation, I think of a fader control, and when I think of Right-Left compensation, I think of balance control. I get the same audio effect in my car when I adjust the fader and balance controls. When driving, the left front speaker(here in the US) is closer to me than the right front speaker is. Adjusting the balance in this case will recenter the stereo imaging per my position. This is exactly what I'm hearing when I modify my delta distance on the 105 for my right-left speaker positioning. Increasing my right speaker delta distance makes the stereo imaging move more toward my left speaker. The same effect happens, albeit a front/back effect, when there is a delta distance compensation between the front and rear/surround speakers. This is what I'm hearing when I adjust the 105 speaker distances. When the delta distance is minutely small (say .5 ft), I cannot sense any difference in audio effect. I'll be honest though, I have spent many years listening to audio in my car, and I always do most of my listening with no compensation, meaning up-front audio (no fader set) and no right-left compensation (no balance), even though my sitting position (obviously) is not optimal between all my speakers. Then again, I don't critically listen to audio in my car....I want the sound right up front, first and foremost, to minimize having to crank up my car audio volume to compensate for constant noise disturbances.

Distance adjustment has a different effect on bass. Bass is not localizable -- it is heard to come "from everywhere" -- so distance adjustment doesn't alter its position in the sound field. However it DOES alter the critical phase relationships.

This is particularly important through the Crossover region where the mains and the Sub are each playing portions of the same bass content at the same time. If Sub phase is not correct you get cancellations. The point being that Sub phase is a function of relative distance, meaning that if you change the relative distance settings you also have to correct the Sub phase before you can have a valid comparison. Of course if Sub phase is incorrect to begin with, bogus distance settings could, coincidentally "fix" that.

Depending on how multi-channel content is mixed, this could even be relevant for the blending of LFE in the Sub with main speaker content when the main speakers are Large (no Crossover).
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post #10005 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Yes, Omar, that is my belief, however, let me re-clarify. After testing small and large delta distances, it's my position that I cannot sense any measurable differences from simply enabling distance processing (by creating a small delta distance between a set of speakers). When I think of Front-Back distance compensation, I think of a fader control, and when I think of Right-Left compensation, I think of balance control. I get the same audio effect in my car when I adjust the fader and balance controls. When driving, the left front speaker(here in the US) is closer to me than the right front speaker is. Adjusting the balance in this case will recenter the stereo imaging per my position. This is exactly what I'm hearing when I modify my delta distance on the 105 for my right-left speaker positioning. Increasing my right speaker delta distance makes the stereo imaging move more toward my left speaker. The same effect happens, albeit a front/back effect, when there is a delta distance compensation between the front and rear/surround speakers. This is what I'm hearing when I adjust the 105 speaker distances. When the delta distance is minutely small (say .5 ft), I cannot sense any difference in audio effect. I'll be honest though, I have spent many years listening to audio in my car, and I always do most of my listening with no compensation, meaning up-front audio (no fader set) and no right-left compensation (no balance), even though my sitting position (obviously) is not optimal between all my speakers. Then again, I don't critically listen to audio in my car....I want the sound right up front, first and foremost, to minimize having to crank up my car audio volume to compensate for constant noise disturbances.

The difference for me in this case, Dan, is that before any distance calibration, I've done level calibrations. Equalizing distance should affect timing, not loudness. Though I assume there should be some affect on loudness due sounds that are supposed to be synchronous arriving at different times, and viva versa, I can't imagine that to be such a dramatic impact. The main effect, other than timing that I hear, is a significant change in sound staging--not loudness, per say.

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post #10006 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 12:29 PM
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Because the theory is that when set all to 0 the Distance Processing is turned off. When you plug in some values Distance Processing is turned on but it is not working correctly.

Ok so I will try how about trims? Should these be at 0 as well?
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post #10007 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 12:32 PM
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Distance adjustment has a different effect on bass. Bass is not localizable -- it is heard to come "from everywhere" -- so distance adjustment doesn't alter its position in the sound field. However it DOES alter the critical phase relationships.

This is particularly important through the Crossover region where the mains and the Sub are each playing portions of the same bass content at the same time. If Sub phase is not correct you get cancellations. The point being that Sub phase is a function of relative distance, meaning that if you change the relative distance settings you also have to correct the Sub phase before you can have a valid comparison. Of course if Sub phase is incorrect to begin with, bogus distance settings could, coincidentally "fix" that.
--Bob

I've accounted for sub phase in my setup, as per Vandersteen's instructions. Interestingly, setting distance can positively or negatively affect my bass , yes. At one point when I was fiddling with distance settings, a difference of one or two clicks in the OPPO setup made a large impact in the amount of bass. The thing that got me playing with this setting again was my new subwoofer--I had it further into the room than all my other speakers and thought I'd try compensating for its distance. Now I've moved it back to the same plane as my mains, and that is not an issue. And the relative loudness of my sub is not the lion's share of the sound change I'm hearing.
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post #10008 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 12:33 PM
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Ok so I will try how about trims? Should these be at 0 as well?

Adjust your volume trims as you would, it's not a problem.
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post #10009 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 12:33 PM
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Seriously the distance makes that much of an impact? I don't get it why is that eek.gif
Because the theory is that when set all to 0 the Distance Processing is turned off. When you plug in some values Distance Processing is turned on but it is not working correctly.

I don't believe this theory, since in my testing correct distances entered into the OPPO produce the same sound as correct distances entered into my D2v (with speakers all set equidistant in the device that's not supposed to be doing anything). That would mean the D2v has to be screwing up, too, and in the SAME manner, which I find implausible.
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post #10010 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 12:35 PM
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I don't believe this theory, since in my testing correct distances entered into the OPPO produce the same sound as correct distances entered into my D2v (with speakers all set equidistant in the device that's not supposed to be doing anything). That would mean the D2v has to be screwing up, too, and in the SAME manner, which I find implausible.
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Unless they're using algorithms from the same library smile.gif
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^ Tin-foil hat time? biggrin.gif
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post #10012 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 12:38 PM
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I have just moved my chair to be equidistant from my mains and surrounds. I will relevel my channel volumes, then try inputing distances (there will be a few slight variances for center and rear surround and sub, on the order of .5-1.0 feet, I believe), and see if the same effect takes place...or, if with distance trims zeroed out, it sounds like the compensated version at my original sitting position. At the same relative volume level, of course.
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post #10013 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 12:40 PM
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^ Tin-foil hat time? biggrin.gif
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post #10014 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 01:24 PM
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Alas, the little experiment was doomed. I couldn't tell much difference between no compensation and 1' compensation on my mains and surrounds (leaving my sub and center at 0, because they are closer to my seat than the others), not I'm afraid because there is no difference (I did detect a slight difference but i don't consider it reliable), but because equidistant from mains and surrounds puts me too damn close to my mains. I thought I'd give the multichannel a go, just cause I'd moved my chair already, but it sounds too weird and out of sorts being so close. Two channel music is almost like wearing a pair of headphones, and multichannel is too confrontational, even with the center volume trimmed down 3.5 dB to balance its level out.

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post #10015 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 01:47 PM
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ER Physician, Nurse, CIA .... biggrin.gif what kind of work do you do to work nights?

Also why distances at 0?

I could tell you...but then I'd have to kill you smile.gif

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post #10016 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 02:54 PM
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I could tell you...but then I'd have to kill you smile.gif Omar

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post #10017 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

So, in a situation where the listening field is level so to speak (neutrally equidistant listening position, and quite possibly away from a negative room node),
you don't here the attenuation or "collapsed soundstage" as you previously described, correct?
This means there are things in the room that are effecting your sound in a way that it shouldn't be.
The delays that you are hearing when setting the proper distance settings in the player sound 'off' to you because they are now arriving at your ears at different times according to what each speaker is set to,
and if there are reflections or negative nodes present, that can have an impact on how the sound is being heard.
So you need to take measurements at different places in the room and add room treatments accordingly and/or different speaker placement and/or different seating positions, etc...
I suspected this was the problem the whole time, but wasn't sure now until you confirmed it for yourself.

This does show that once you start troubleshooting a problem properly, you will come to the proper conclusion sooner or later.
Of course if you actually like the sound with all channels set to -0-, then maybe you might want to just stick with that.
Having a properly tuned room for analog audio will always be more accurate though.

Well, I think there are two different things going on.

1) with my chair equidistant, I was just too close to my mains to make any logical conclusion. These are large speakers, spread far apart, that are designed to fill a large space. Sitting practically on top of them did not sound right, period. Even in two channel audio, there was no sound staging, everything was "there" but splayed out left to right, and my bass was dead, because the bass management built into the speakers was calibrated for my normal sitting position, several feet bak. What I was trying to say was, I sort of heard a difference between no compensation and compensated, but the other confounding factors made it impossible to make a reliable statement.

2) That having been said, I moved my chair back to its original spot, redid my measurements (which were off a few inches here and there), and rechallenged. I believe I accept Bob's insight to be correct, the "fuller" sound i was hearing may very well have been nothing but sonic dissonance. This time I was more attentive in a/b'ing, and the sound field didn't so much "collapse", as the dissonances seemed to go away. I'll try it some more, but I believe I will stand corrected in the end here.

Omar
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post #10018 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 03:28 PM
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Hi oppo fellas. I encountered this problem with oppo 105. I have a DLNA setup on my synology DSM 5.0 nas,and i can stream everything i have in there from films to any kind of audio formats but not internet radio. I have alots of synology built in radio stations but i can not stream them to oppo. tried to stream through my AV 8801 and no problem there. Marants stream it like charm. Any serttings in oppo i should bare in mind? I hope someone here with simmilar problems can help me.

Thanks.
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post #10019 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 03:35 PM
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^ Hello Meffy. Someone else asked this same question not too long ago. I tried to play those radio stations (SHOUTcast), via DLNA, from my Synology DS Audio app with the 105 as the renderer, but the 105 just won't play them. I never did bother giving Oppo a call about this.
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post #10020 of 11436 Old 04-13-2014, 03:43 PM
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^ Hello Meffy. Someone else asked this same question not too long ago. I tried to play those radio stations (SHOUTcast), via DLNA, from my Synology DS Audio app with the 105 as the renderer, but the 105 just won't play them. I never did bother giving Oppo a call about this.

Ah, hi DanF8500, long time ago we spoke.Thanks for your reply m8. Nice to know im not the only one that have this problem (well... not really a big one to bother with, i can live without it) but thanks anyway.
Cheers,

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