Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 337 - AVS Forum
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post #10081 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

As long as were are talking long-standing bugs with Analog output, I might as well re-mention my other fav.

The Crossover setting incorrectly attenuates high frequency bass from LFE content.

That is, if you have a Crossover set to 40Hz, the LFE content sent to the Sub is rolled off above 40Hz. LFE runs up to 120Hz, although the meat of LFE is found in the 40-80Hz range (with additional energy below 40Hz in some tracks that's more felt than heard). So with a typical Crossover of 80Hz, the modest rolloff between 80 and 120Hz would usually not be noticed because there's not much LFE above 80Hz to begin with. But if you set your Crossover low because you believe (perhaps mistakenly) that your main speakers can really handle things that low all on their own, then LFE content you SHOULD hear in the Sub gets lost.

That's "lost' -- not "steered" to the main speakers.

Note that the bug only affects LFE content. The apportioning of bass coming in as main speaker content between the mains and the Sub (i.e., normal Crossover processing) works correctly for all Crossover frequency settings. Bass that's attenuated from the main speakers is mixed into the Subwoofer output -- not lost.


--Bob

Bob, what if all the speakers are set to "large" and you also have a sub? Is the crossover even active? Does LFE signal just get passed to the sub un-filtered (without applying a x-over)? Or does it still roll-off at whatever you set the x-over and affected by the above bug? I have a feeling that since there is no bass steering, this bug wouldn't have any effects on a system with all large speakers. Correct?

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post #10082 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 09:36 AM
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That's good to know about the LFE, Bob. That explains why I find I like the sound of my 21" woofer crossed way high, like closer to 120hz!
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post #10083 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 09:51 AM
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^ That info makes it a bit more clear. Thanks Bob.
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post #10084 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 10:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

As long as were are talking long-standing bugs with Analog output, I might as well re-mention my other fav.

The Crossover setting incorrectly attenuates high frequency bass from LFE content.

That is, if you have a Crossover set to 40Hz, the LFE content sent to the Sub is rolled off above 40Hz. LFE runs up to 120Hz, although the meat of LFE is found in the 40-80Hz range (with additional energy below 40Hz in some tracks that's more felt than heard). So with a typical Crossover of 80Hz, the modest rolloff between 80 and 120Hz would usually not be noticed because there's not much LFE above 80Hz to begin with. But if you set your Crossover low because you believe (perhaps mistakenly) that your main speakers can really handle things that low all on their own, then LFE content you SHOULD hear in the Sub gets lost.

That's "lost' -- not "steered" to the main speakers.

Note that the bug only affects LFE content. The apportioning of bass coming in as main speaker content between the mains and the Sub (i.e., normal Crossover processing) works correctly for all Crossover frequency settings. Bass that's attenuated from the main speakers is mixed into the Subwoofer output -- not lost.

I fear the reason this one has not been fixed is that it is baked into the hardware design.

The upshot is that you should not use a low Crossover setting in the OPPO if you intend to play multi-channel tracks with content in the LFE channel via the multi-channel Analog outputs.

(This bug has no effect on Digital audio output such as HDMI Audio.)
--Bob

If you set the Oppo to use the sub woofer with a full signal io the main speaker i.e. no crossover point,  do you lose any of the LFE or .1 channel? With this setup, does all the LFE or .1 channel go to the subwoofer and the main channel?

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post #10085 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 10:48 AM
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Bob, need your help here. I know we've been beating this 105 speaker distance topic to death, but I had some time to kill this morning, and decided to do some additional testing on my 2-channel audio system, and play around with the 105's speaker distance setting. I still kept my 105's stereo signal setting at Down-mixed stereo (so, I'm executing the bug software biggrin.gif) I also preset my speaker distances at 7 ft each. The results of my testing were quite the opposite of what I thought I was going to expect. I always do my critical listening with my speakers equidistance to me. I was playing a 2-ch flac with good stereo imaging dead center of my two speakers. Now I decided to move my listening position a couple feet off center, which moved me more in front of my left speaker. I made the appropriate distance adjustments, which was to increase my right speaker distance setting, and reduce my left speaker distance setting a little. This left me with a delta distance of around 3 ft or so. What I heard after replaying the same flac file was not good. I thought the stereo imaging would be dead center, just as I heard before I made the speaker distance changes, but the dead center imaging was way off center. It was nearly all toward the left (closer) speaker. How could this be? From this listening position, I then proceeded to reduce my right speaker distance setting to a value lower than my left speaker, and was able to get the stereo imaging dead center again. So, even though my right speaker was further away, reducing its distance to a value lower than my left speaker distance seems opposite of what I needed to do to correct the distance/time delay effect? Any thoughts on this? Changing Stereo Signal to Front L/R had no effect to the above test.
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post #10086 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebring1 View Post

If you set the Oppo to use the sub woofer with a full signal io the main speaker i.e. no crossover point,  do you lose any of the LFE or .1 channel? With this setup, does all the LFE or .1 channel go to the subwoofer and the main channel?

With ALL speakers set to Large, Crossover processing is bypassed completely and this bug does not exist. Any content in the .1 channel goes to the Subwoofer without regard to whatever setting happens to be selected for the Crossover frequency.



As for the bug itself, it can be demonstrated quite easily using the 5.1 LPCM test track from AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray. The Subwoofer test signal on that track is particularly good for demonstrating this because it incorporates a wide range of bass frequencies (i.e., goes higher in bass frequency than would be typical for normal LFE content in real tracks).

Connect for multi-channel Analog audio. Set ALL speakers Large and play the Subwoofer test tone from that 5.1 LPCM test track. You can use A-B Repeat to keep the test track playing just that tone.

Now, while that tone is playing, flip the Setup > Audio Processing > Crossover setting between 40Hz and 250Hz. RESULT: There is no audible change. This is as it should be.

Next change any speaker to Small. It doesn't matter which speaker since there's no main speaker channel content in that test tone -- it is exclusively .1 channel content. So change, say LS/RS to Small.

As soon as you do that, there will be a -5dB attenuation of the Subwoofer output. This is normal and expected. An additional -5dB of attenuation is needed to provide the headroom for bass potentially steered to the Sub due to the action of the Crossover. So ignore this.

But now, once again, flip between Crossover 40Hz and Crossover 250Hz. RESULT: The difference is obvious. The 40Hz setting discards all the higher frequency bass that should be going to the Sub.
--Bob

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post #10087 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Bob, need your help here. I know we've been beating this 105 speaker distance topic to death, but I had some time to kill this morning, and decided to do some additional testing on my 2-channel audio system, and play around with the 105's speaker distance setting. I still kept my 105's stereo signal setting at Down-mixed stereo (so, I'm executing the bug software biggrin.gif) I also preset my speaker distances at 7 ft each. The results of my testing were quite the opposite of what I thought I was going to expect. I always do my critical listening with my speakers equidistance to me. I was playing a 2-ch flac with good stereo imaging dead center of my two speakers. Now I decided to move my listening position a couple feet off center, which moved me more in front of my left speaker. I made the appropriate distance adjustments, which was to increase my right speaker distance setting, and reduce my left speaker distance setting a little. This left me with a delta distance of around 3 ft or so. What I heard after replaying the same flac file was not good. I thought the stereo imaging would be dead center, just as I heard before I made the speaker distance changes, but the dead center imaging was way off center. It was nearly all toward the left (closer) speaker. How could this be? From this listening position, I then proceeded to reduce my right speaker distance setting to a value lower than my left speaker, and was able to get the stereo imaging dead center again. So, even though my right speaker was further away, reducing its distance to a value lower than my left speaker distance seems opposite of what I needed to do to correct the distance/time delay effect? Any thoughts on this? Changing Stereo Signal to Front L/R had no effect to the above test.

I think the most likely reason is that your FLAC has the left and right channel content reversed.

Try testing again with a calibration disc.

I've tested with the special click track in the Audio Tests disc of the Avia Pro SD-DVD set and the distance adjustments are happening the right way around.
--Bob

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post #10088 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 11:30 AM
 
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"With ALL speakers set to Large, Crossover processing is bypassed completely and this bug does not exist. Any content in the .1 channel goes to the Subwoofer without regard to whatever setting happens to be selected for the Crossover frequency. " What happens if all speakers are set to small? Stereo down mix, stereo signal set to stereo.
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post #10089 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Sebring1 View Post

"With ALL speakers set to Large, Crossover processing is bypassed completely and this bug does not exist. Any content in the .1 channel goes to the Subwoofer without regard to whatever setting happens to be selected for the Crossover frequency. " What happens if all speakers are set to small? Stereo down mix, stereo signal set to stereo.

Not enough information. Are you using the Dedicated Stereo outputs? Is there any LFE (.1) channel content in what you are playing?

If you have Stereo Signal set to DOWN-MIXED STEREO, then any LFE (.1) channel content is discarded as part of creating the down-mix for the Dedicated Stereo L/R outputs. This is by design to avoid having to apply the substantial down-mix attenuation needed if LFE content were mixed into those. Of course if you are playing stereo content, there is no LFE channel, and so this is not an issue. I.e., this only applies when playing multi-channel tracks that happen to include content in the LFE (.1) channel.

If you have Stereo Signal set to DOWN-MIXED STEREO, then the Large vs. Small settings in the multi-channel Speaker Configuration menu have no effect on what goes out on the Dedicated Stereo L/R outputs. They are treated as Large.
--Bob

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post #10090 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 11:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebring1 View Post

"With ALL speakers set to Large, Crossover processing is bypassed completely and this bug does not exist. Any content in the .1 channel goes to the Subwoofer without regard to whatever setting happens to be selected for the Crossover frequency. " What happens if all speakers are set to small? Stereo down mix, stereo signal set to stereo.

Not enough information. Are you using the Dedicated Stereo outputs? Is there any LFE (.1) channel content in what you are playing?

If you have Stereo Signal set to DOWN-MIXED STEREO, then any LFE (.1) channel content is discarded as part of creating the down-mix for the Dedicated Stereo L/R outputs. This is by design to avoid having to apply the substantial down-mix attenuation needed if LFE content were mixed into those. Of course if you are playing stereo content, there is no LFE channel, and so this is not an issue. I.e., this only applies when playing multi-channel tracks that happen to include content in the LFE (.1) channel.

If you have Stereo Signal set to DOWN-MIXED STEREO, then the Large vs. Small settings in the multi-channel Speaker Configuration menu have no effect on what goes out on the Dedicated Stereo L/R outputs. They are treated as Large.
--Bob
Sub woofer is connected. Using dedicated stereo outputs. Content is movies.
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post #10091 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I think the most likely reason is that your FLAC has the left and right channel content reversed.

Try testing again with a calibration disc.

I've tested with the special click track in the Audio Tests disc of the Avia Pro SD-DVD set and the distance adjustments are happening the right way around.
--Bob
I used one of my Audio CheckDiscs with center clicks, and the same effect is happening. I then proceeded to try about 10 more random flacs in my library, and all of them create the same effect with speaker distance settings as I have described above. The speaker with the larger distance value (thus further away from one's listening position) is not correcting for its distance properly. It gets more "distant" sounding with increased distance values. Only by setting a smaller distance for this speaker than its opposing speaker does the stereo imaging become centered. I don't know, Bob. The distance setting is just not functioning the way I would expect it to. Remember, this is for right/left center correction (2-ch config). I don't have a front/back (muli-ch) audio system.
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post #10092 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 12:20 PM
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Sebring1,
That's an invalid configuration.

You are combining the Subwoofer, which is part of the multi-channel output set with the Dedicated L/R outputs. When Stereo Signal is set to DOWN-MIXED STEREO those two sets of outputs operate independently, and by combining them in this fashion you will get screwy results.

The SMALL settings you've made for your main speakers apply to the MULTI-CHANNEL outputs, and will steer bass from them to the Subwoofer. The bass attenuated from those multi-channel, main speaker output jacks (according to the choice of Crossover) shows up in the Subwoofer along with all the LFE content.

Meanwhile, with Stereo Signal set to DOWN-MIXED STEREO, the Dedicated L/R jacks are treated as LARGE. That means all the main speaker bass goes out on those L/R jacks. And THAT means you've just double-dipped for main speaker channel bass. It is going out on the Dedicated L/R jacks *AND ALSO* on the Subwoofer jack.



Try this instead:

1) Wire the Subwoofer RCA jack (only) from the multi-channel set. Wire the Dedicated Stereo L/R RCA jacks to the amp path for your front pair of speakers. The other jacks of the multi-channel set remain unused.

2) Set Audio Processing > Stereo Signal FRONT LEFT/RIGHT. This configures the Dedicated Stereo L/R pair to be used in place of the normal LF/RF pair from the multi-channel set.

3) In the multi-channel Analog Speaker Configuration settings, set Down-mix to Stereo. *AFTER* making this setting, set LF/RF to Small and Subwoofer to ON. (Setting the Down-mix to Stereo turns Off the Subwoofer as an intended side-effect. You can re-enable the Subwoofer output, but you need to do that after setting the Down-mix to Stereo.)

4) Pick a Crossover frequency. 80Hz is a good starting point choice -- the closest there is to a "one size fits all" choice.

5) Use a calibration disc to set the Volume knob on your Sub. (Leave the Subwoofer volume trim setting in the OPPO at 0dB). Since you have some speakers set to Small, the Subwoofer will need a total of +15dB boost to match what's going out on the RCA jacks of the multi-channel set. If you run the Subwoofer signal through the Analog audio section of an AVR, it is likely the AVR is already providing +10dB of that, but it makes no difference. Simply adjust the Volume knob on the Subwoofer itself to produce the same level of output as you are getting on your two front speakers. You can use the 5.1 LPCM track from AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray for this -- simply ignore the Center and Surround channel portions and adjust the LF/RF and Sub to produce the same output level. Use a Sound Pressure Level (SPL) meter for this. For example, set LF/RF and Sub to 0dB volume trim in the OPPO and adjust Main Volume to get 75dB SPL when the test tone is playing in the LF speaker. Using that same Main Volume setting, adjust the volume trim in the OPPO for the RF speaker so that its test tone also produces 75dB SPL. Then, leaving the Sub volume trim at 0dB in the OPPO, adjust the Volume knob on the Sub itself so that its test tone also produces 75dB SPL. It doesn't matter whether all the boost is coming from the Volume knob on the sub, or part is coming from what your AVR provides on that signal -- once the SPL meter shows the same level for all 3 of them you are done.

NOW, set up this way, play your movie tracks. You have configured the Dedicated L/R jacks to act just like the LF/RF jacks of the multi-channel set, so it is now OK to pair them with the Subwoofer jack output like this.

When you play 5.1 or 7.1 tracks, the Center and Surround content will be down-mixed into your 2 speakers -- due to the Speaker Configuration > Down-Mix STEREO setting. (Surround content will be automatically attenuated to keep from screwing up the front sound stage, but it will still be present -- nothing is lost). Meanwhile LFE content will go to the Subwoofer output. Since you have LF/RF set to Small, the RESULT of the down-mix going into them will first be passed through the Crossover -- meaning a portion of their bass will be steered to the Subwoofer instead where it will be mixed with the LFE content already going to the Subwoofer.
--Bob

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post #10093 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I think the most likely reason is that your FLAC has the left and right channel content reversed.

Try testing again with a calibration disc.

I've tested with the special click track in the Audio Tests disc of the Avia Pro SD-DVD set and the distance adjustments are happening the right way around.
--Bob
I used one of my Audio CheckDiscs with center clicks, and the same effect is happening. I then proceeded to try about 10 more random flacs in my library, and all of them create the same effect with speaker distance settings as I have described above. The speaker with the larger distance value (thus further away from one's listening position) is not correcting for its distance properly. It gets more "distant" sounding with increased distance values. Only by setting a smaller distance for this speaker than its opposing speaker does the stereo imaging become centered. I don't know, Bob. The distance setting is just not functioning the way I would expect it to. Remember, this is for right/left center correction (2-ch config). I don't have a front/back (muli-ch) audio system.

Dan, there is something screwy in your setup. Start with a Reset of the 105 (you can save and restore settings via a USB stick to make this less painful), then double check your physical wiring from end to end to make sure you haven't swapped left and right at some point in the path.
--Bob

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post #10094 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 12:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Sebring1,
That's an invalid configuration.

You are combining the Subwoofer, which is part of the multi-channel output set with the Dedicated L/R outputs. When Stereo Signal is set to DOWN-MIXED STEREO those two sets of outputs operate independently, and by combining them in this fashion you will get screwy results.

The SMALL settings you've made for your main speakers apply to the MULTI-CHANNEL outputs, and will steer bass from them to the Subwoofer. The bass attenuated from those multi-channel, main speaker output jacks (according to the choice of Crossover) shows up in the Subwoofer along with all the LFE content.

Meanwhile, with Stereo Signal set to DOWN-MIXED STEREO, the Dedicated L/R jacks are treated as LARGE. That means all the main speaker bass goes out on those L/R jacks. And THAT means you've just double-dipped for main speaker channel bass. It is going out on the Dedicated L/R jacks *AND ALSO* on the Subwoofer jack.



Try this instead:

1) Wire the Subwoofer RCA jack (only) from the multi-channel set. Wire the Dedicated Stereo L/R RCA jacks to the amp path for your front pair of speakers. The other jacks of the multi-channel set remain unused.

2) Set Audio Processing > Stereo Signal FRONT LEFT/RIGHT. This configures the Dedicated Stereo L/R pair to be used in place of the normal LF/RF pair from the multi-channel set.

3) In the multi-channel Analog Speaker Configuration settings, set Down-mix to Stereo. *AFTER* making this setting, set LF/RF to Small and Subwoofer to ON. (Setting the Down-mix to Stereo turns Off the Subwoofer as an intended side-effect. You can re-enable the Subwoofer output, but you need to do that after setting the Down-mix to Stereo.)

4) Pick a Crossover frequency. 80Hz is a good starting point choice -- the closest there is to a "one size fits all" choice.

5) Use a calibration disc to set the Volume knob on your Sub. (Leave the Subwoofer volume trim setting in the OPPO at 0dB). Since you have some speakers set to Small, the Subwoofer will need a total of +15dB boost to match what's going out on the RCA jacks of the multi-channel set. If you run the Subwoofer signal through the Analog audio section of an AVR, it is likely the AVR is already providing +10dB of that, but it makes no difference. Simply adjust the Volume knob on the Subwoofer itself to produce the same level of output as you are getting on your two front speakers. You can use the 5.1 LPCM track from AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray for this -- simply ignore the Center and Surround channel portions and adjust the LF/RF and Sub to produce the same output level. Use a Sound Pressure Level (SPL) meter for this. For example, set LF/RF and Sub to 0dB volume trim in the OPPO and adjust Main Volume to get 75dB SPL when the test tone is playing in the LF speaker. Using that same Main Volume setting, adjust the volume trim in the OPPO for the RF speaker so that its test tone also produces 75dB SPL. Then, leaving the Sub volume trim at 0dB in the OPPO, adjust the Volume knob on the Sub itself so that its test tone also produces 75dB SPL. It doesn't matter whether all the boost is coming from the Volume knob on the sub, or part is coming from what your AVR provides on that signal -- once the SPL meter shows the same level for all 3 of them you are done.

NOW, set up this way, play your movie tracks. You have configured the Dedicated L/R jacks to act just like the LF/RF jacks of the multi-channel set, so it is now OK to pair them with the Subwoofer jack output like this.

When you play 5.1 or 7.1 tracks, the Center and Surround content will be down-mixed into your 2 speakers -- due to the Speaker Configuration > Down-Mix STEREO setting. (Surround content will be automatically attenuated to keep from screwing up the front sound stage, but it will still be present -- nothing is lost). Meanwhile LFE content will go to the Subwoofer output. Since you have LF/RF set to Small, the RESULT of the down-mix going into them will first be passed through the Crossover -- meaning a portion of their bass will be steered to the Subwoofer instead where it will be mixed with the LFE content already going to the Subwoofer.
--Bob
Thanks
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post #10095 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Dan, there is something screwy in your setup. Start with a Reset of the 105 (you can save and restore settings via a USB stick to make this less painful), then double check your physical wiring from end to end to make sure you haven't swapped left and right at some point in the path.
--Bob
Ok, Bob. I will do the Reset and restore my settings later today....Gotta run now. I double checked my physical wiring end to end....all is hooked up properly. I'm at a complete loss right now as to what I heard after all this testing. It's more for my own understanding/functionality of this setting when active, since I normally don't apply any distance adjustments in my system under any circumstances.
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post #10096 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 01:47 PM
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I'm a little confused about this discussion. Aren't the distance settings related to time delays. Left-right balance is strictly a matter of the volume balance between the left and right speakers. If you haven't changed the volume balance between the two stereo speakers and move closer to that speaker in a lateral plane, you will naturally hear more from that speaker and the overall balance will move toward that speaker. By a lateral plane, I mean if your physical position was ten feet from the back wall directly behind the speakers, your distance would remain at that 10 feet as you moved leftward. If you wanted to set the balance as you moved leftward, I would think you would change the volume balance to favor the right speaker. The only reason I could see for changing the distance setting is if you not only moved left but directly toward or away from that speaker so that you moved toward or away from the back wall behind the speakers. Or is there just something I'm missing or don't understand here. The only way I could see the distance setting affecting the balance would be if it not only introduced delay but loudness changes as well. I don't think that is what the distance setting does.

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post #10097 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 01:56 PM
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^ The distance setting isn't affecting the volume balance. It's affecting the imaging. Sounds that are supposed to come from between the pair of speakers get imaged incorrectly if you are closer to one speaker than the other. The change in arrival time of the sound from both speakers is interpreted by the brain as a shift in positioning of the sound. The distance adjustment for the speakers corrects that by realigning the timing.

On the other hand, if you shift your seating position without changing anything else you also change other aspects of what the ear hears, including frequency response and volume changes due to shifting where you are in the "off axis" response envelope of each speaker. So that does make it difficult to A/B stuff like this.
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post #10098 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Sebring1 View Post

Why do you and Oppo have to make this so complicated? Can't you just say output when using stereo outputs is controlled by selection of Stereo Signal. Select stereo and you get stereo with no speaker configurations. Select LT/RT and you get output as per speaker configurations. The speaker configurations are not ignored. You select whether or not to use them with Stereo Signal. To say they are not used is wrong and confusing because whether or not they are used depends on your selection in stereo signal

Very well said biggrin.gif
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post #10099 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ The distance setting isn't affecting the volume balance. It's affecting the imaging. Sounds that are supposed to come from between the pair of speakers get imaged incorrectly if you are closer to one speaker than the other. The change in arrival time of the sound from both speakers is interpreted by the brain as a shift in positioning of the sound. The distance adjustment for the speakers corrects that by realigning the timing.

On the other hand, if you shift your seating position without changing anything else you also change other aspects of what the ear hears, including frequency response and volume changes due to shifting where you are in the "off axis" response envelope of each speaker. So that does make it difficult to A/B stuff like this.
--Bob
Obviously. Speaker dispersal patterns and crosstalk have a huge influence on what we hear. Unless there is some way to isolate each of the factors that could be affecting what one hears, there is no way to scientifically determine what is actually going on. It could be that some of the differences people are hearing are subtle things that may affect the speakers they have and not a different pair. It would be wonderful if someone had a lab where all of this could be really checked out. You think someone at Harman International or the Canadian labs might be interested in getting to the bottom of this? smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif

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post #10100 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebring1 View Post

Why do you and Oppo have to make this so complicated? Can't you just say output when using stereo outputs is controlled by selection of Stereo Signal. Select stereo and you get stereo with no speaker configurations. Select LT/RT and you get output as per speaker configurations. The speaker configurations are not ignored. You select whether or not to use them with Stereo Signal. To say they are not used is wrong and confusing because whether or not they are used depends on your selection in stereo signal

Very well said biggrin.gif

Uh, no. Read the reply. He's got two different settings confused in that post.

It's an easy confusion to fall into, which is why the comments posted here read as complex -- the range of setting choices *IS* complex.
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post #10101 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 05:06 PM
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I am considering purchasing an Oppo BDP-105D as the new hub of my AV system.  There is one thing I am still confused about however after reading the manual, the FAQ and many of the posts on this thread.

 

My intended use for video would be to use the output of the Oppo directly into a 5 channel amp to my 5 speakers and also directly into my powered subwoofer;  For CATV & DVDs this all seems straightforward using the 5.1 channel outputs.  My intended use for audio would be to run the USB output of a PC music server into the assync USB input of the Oppo. I would like to listen to these audio files (FLAC) in true 2-channel mode. 

 

My understanding is that the analog audio output from the digital assync USB input will appear on the Dedicated Stereo L/R pair - is this correct?  Do I therefore run those 2 Channels into my amp to drive the FR & FL speakers and then the line outputs from the remaining 5.1 channels into my amp to drive the C, SR, SL speakers & Subwoofer?  Do I need to select Audio Processing > Stereo Signal FRONT LEFT/RIGHT so that the audio from video use appears on my FL & FR speakers when configured this way?

 

If any of the above in not correct please set me straight - Thanks!!

 

John Motzi

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post #10102 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 05:54 PM
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I wouldn't advise using the distance setting to make up for a shifted listening position ref the "front" stereo signal, since any voice or instrument panned center will be subject to nasty comb-filtering ("phasing," if you will).
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post #10103 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jmotzi View Post

I am considering purchasing an Oppo BDP-105D as the new hub of my AV system.  There is one thing I am still confused about however after reading the manual, the FAQ and many of the posts on this thread.

My intended use for video would be to use the output of the Oppo directly into a 5 channel amp to my 5 speakers and also directly into my powered subwoofer;  For CATV & DVDs this all seems straightforward using the 5.1 channel outputs.  My intended use for audio would be to run the USB output of a PC music server into the assync USB input of the Oppo. I would like to listen to these audio files (FLAC) in true 2-channel mode. 

My understanding is that the analog audio output from the digital assync USB input will appear on the Dedicated Stereo L/R pair - is this correct?  Do I therefore run those 2 Channels into my amp to drive the FR & FL speakers and then the line outputs from the remaining 5.1 channels into my amp to drive the C, SR, SL speakers & Subwoofer?  Do I need to select Audio Processing > Stereo Signal FRONT LEFT/RIGHT so that the audio from video use appears on my FL & FR speakers when configured this way?

If any of the above in not correct please set me straight - Thanks!!

John Motzi

Let's keep it simple to start: When you just have the 5.1 Analog wired (5 speakers and sub) you can play both your multi-channel content and your Asynchronous USB DAC Input stereo content. When you play stereo content via that Asynchronous DAC Input, the Center, Surrounds and Subwoofer will all be SILENT. Note in particularly that you don't get Crossover processing when using that input. The input signal goes straight to the DACs, bypassing any such processing.

The signal is *ALSO* available on the Dedicated Stereo Analog outputs, but you don't HAVE TO use those to play "true 2-channel mode" of that DAC input.

Now, the next level up of complexity is that you can wire the Dedicated L/R jacks in lieu of the normal LF/RF outputs of the multi-channel set. To do that, set Stereo Signal FRONT LEFT/RIGHT. Having done that everything I said above still applies. Any multi-channel content will play according to your Speaker Configuration settings. But stereo input via the Asynchronous USB DAC Input will be JUST stereo output -- Center, the Surrounds, and the Sub will all be silent.
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post #10104 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 06:14 PM
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Perfect - Thanks Bob!!

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post #10105 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 06:56 PM
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Wondering what video settings are recommended on a TV setup in order to optimize the OPPO 105 video setup.

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post #10106 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 07:22 PM
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Wondering what video settings are recommended on a TV setup in order to optimize the OPPO 105 video setup.

The FAQ has this: What are the recommended settings for the OPPO BDP-103?. The -103 and -105 are the same in this regard.

-Bill
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post #10107 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 08:00 PM
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1) Audio Processing > Stereo Signal (with choices of DOWN-MIXED STEREO or FRONT LEFT/RIGHT)

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Bob,
does this setting affect the headphone output ?
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post #10108 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 08:07 PM
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No. The Headphones output always works like the DOWN-MIXED STEREO choice.
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post #10109 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 08:49 PM
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Well, I think there are two different things going on.

1) with my chair equidistant, I was just too close to my mains to make any logical conclusion. These are large speakers, spread far apart, that are designed to fill a large space. Sitting practically on top of them did not sound right, period. Even in two channel audio, there was no sound staging, everything was "there" but splayed out left to right, and my bass was dead, because the bass management built into the speakers was calibrated for my normal sitting position, several feet bak. What I was trying to say was, I sort of heard a difference between no compensation and compensated, but the other confounding factors made it impossible to make a reliable statement.

2) That having been said, I moved my chair back to its original spot, redid my measurements (which were off a few inches here and there), and rechallenged. I believe I accept Bob's insight to be correct, the "fuller" sound i was hearing may very well have been nothing but sonic dissonance. This time I was more attentive in a/b'ing, and the sound field didn't so much "collapse", as the dissonances seemed to go away. I'll try it some more, but I believe I will stand corrected in the end here.

Omar

So this whole discussion because you had your chair in the wrong spot?

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

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post #10110 of 11901 Old 04-18-2014, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by paul54 View Post

I wouldn't advise using the distance setting to make up for a shifted listening position ref the "front" stereo signal, since any voice or instrument panned center will be subject to nasty comb-filtering ("phasing," if you will).
So Paul, are you saying the distance setting should only be used for differences in distance between front and back, front and surround speaker pairs including sub, and not for any disproportionate right-left distances? So, in other words, our listening position must be equidistance between our FL and FR speaker pair, and any unequal distances between those 2 speakers should not be remedied by the 105's distance setting?
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