Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

A software fix from Oppo is certainly possible since the volume control within the DAC has a resolution of (1/64 = 0.015625 dB) but they give us a coarser version of it to fit within the 0-100 volume scale. Otherwise it'd take forever pressing the volume buttons to effect a meaningful volume. I think this can be easily done as an option within the audio setup menu.

OTOH, i can't believe audiophile XLR attenuators aren't available. The Rothwell types seem to be the favorite for high-end systems according to the reviews i've seen which dubbed them as being neutral. Ideally you need a 12dB attenuation pad to fit the requirements of your power-amp, but their 10dB will do. Have you asked SimAudio for what they would recommend?

I agree with your propsed software solution. Unfortunately, OPPO is refusing to acknowledge that 105 is being promoted as a Player and Preamp. Therefore, OPPO does not feel that 105 output need to support the industry standards for power amp input sensitivity which is 1 Vrms instead of 2Vrms (RCA) and 4.2Vrms (XLR). I contacted OPPO to present the issue with 105 output for its role as a Preamp and to encourage them to provide us with a software solution - see email below.

I have not contacted SimAudio yet because volume control is a function of a Preamp, and this issue need to be addressed by OPPO as long as 105 is being promoted for Player and Preamp roles.

OPPO suggest that I use an -12db Inline XLR Attnuator in between 105 and power amp while admitting that they never tested this solution.

OPPO further argued that they have not heard about volume control problems with 105 reviewers and customers, and I did point out to OPPO that some of the 105 owners have begun posting volume control problems on this AVS Forum.

I encourage 105 owners who have the similar problems to let OPPO know and post your experience with 105 volumne control as a Preamp. We need to work together to change OPPO's position to address this issue.

Until then, the following represents my current status on OPPO's response on this topic:


On 2012-12-12, at 3:40 PM, OPPO Service wrote:

Edward,

We disagree with your assertions and have not had any reviewers, customers, beta testers, or external advisers show an apprehension towards the player outputting 2Vrms for single ended analog outputs and 4.0Vrms through XLR.
EK: We do not disagree on 105 output 2/4 Vrms as a player. But, OPPO is failing to acknowledge that 105 is being promoted as a Preamp as well as a player. Therefore, OPPO need to support industry standards for power amp input sensitivity which is 1Vrms, not 2/4. Otherwise, OPPO and its distributers, dealers and supporters should stop promoting 105 as a Preamp. Please, read recent comments on AVS Forum where 105 owners are beginning to post problems with 105 volume control in its role as a Preamp.


Unfortunately we do not have any recommendation as to which XLR attenuator you should use, as we have not done any testing with these devices as we have not had a scenario where we needed to attenuate the XLR outputs on our players when connected direct to an amplifier or pre-amplifier.
EK: There is only one (Rothwell) Inline XLR Attenuator that is advertised as an Audiophile grade and owners and testers are not satisfied with distortion it bring to the signal path. Therefore, there is no viable solution to 105's inability to "gradually" transition between volume 0 and 1, at this time. I would encourage OPPO to reconsider its position and introduce a software solution for its loyal customers ...

Thanks in advance for your care and solution, soon.
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post #1082 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 09:26 AM
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I did the official firmware upgrade this morning. I have my TV's optical output directly connected to the Oppo's optical input. I am not using a pre-amp and the 5.1 analog outputs are directly connected to a multi-channel amp. I had major lip-synch issues before. This firmware has resolved that issue! Thanks Oppo!

But last night, I did put in an SACD which the Oppo only recognizes as a regular CD. I know this issue has been reported and being worked on. Today's firmware update has not resolved this issue (nor was it supposed to). Just reporting so Oppo knows this is widespread.

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post #1083 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 09:31 AM
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EK, I personally like the higher voltage output of the Oppo. Not all amplifiers are created equal and it's nice to have the higher voltage. However, I do understand your issue. Maybe Oppo could possibly work on increasing the attenuation at lower volumes? Not sure if that's possible, just throwing it out there.

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post #1084 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerCan View Post

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Originally Posted by BeerCan View Post

Hi
Forgive a somewhat noobish question.
Is it better for me to go
1. htpc --> oppo 105 --> TV (all hdmi)
or
2. a) htpc --> TV (hdmi)
b) oppo --> TV (hdmi)
c) httpc (audio) --> oppo (audio) (coax or optical)
Thanks


quoting myself but option 1 is not workable. It has random freezes every 15 seconds or so. This is with live tv through the oppo so I guess this might not be supported. Also I am on the latest firmware and it cleared up some lip sync issues I had.

 

Are you using the new official FW? Your setup is standard and isn't unique at all. It should play well with Oppo. If not, you may contact them with details about your video card and such ...

 

personally, not too keen on option #2 but others here might think different and offer better ideas.


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post #1085 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by edwardkim View Post

I agree with your propsed software solution. Unfortunately, OPPO is refusing to acknologied that 105 is being promoted as a Player and Preamp. Therefore, OPPO does not feel that 105 output need to support the industry standards for power amp input sensitivity which is 1 Vrms instead of 2Vrms (RCA) and 4.2Vrms (XLR). I contacted OPPO to present the issue with 105 output for its role as a Preamp and to encourage them to provide us with a software solution - see email below.
I have not contacted SimAudio yet because volume control is a function of a Preamp, and this issue need to be addressed by OPPO as long as 105 is being promoted for Player and Preamp roles.
OPPO suggest that I use an -12db Inline XLR Attnuator in between 105 and power amp while admitting that they never tested this solution.
OPPO further argued that they have not heard about volume control problems with 105 reviewers and customers, and I did point out to OPPO that some of the 105 owners have begun posting volume control problems on this AVS Forum.
I encourage 105 owners who have the similar problems to let OPPO know and post your experience with 105 volumne control as a Preamp. We need to work together to change OPPO's position to address this issue.
Until then, the following represents my current status on OPPO's response on this topic:
On 2012-12-12, at 3:40 PM, OPPO Service wrote:
Edward,
We disagree with your assertions and have not had any reviewers, customers, beta testers, or external advisers show an apprehension towards the player outputting 2Vrms for single ended analog outputs and 4.0Vrms through XLR.
EK: We do not disagree on 105 output 2/4 Vrms as a player. But, OPPO is failing to acknowledge that 105 is being promoted as a Preamp as well as a player. Therefore, OPPO need to support industry standards for power amp input sensitivity which is 1Vrms, not 2/4. Otherwise, OPPO and its distributers, dealers and supporters should stop promoting 105 as a Preamp. Please, read recent comments on AVS Forum where 105 owners are beginning to post problems with 105 volume control in its role as a Preamp.
Unfortunately we do not have any recommendation as to which XLR attenuator you should use, as we have not done any testing with these devices as we have not had a scenario where we needed to attenuate the XLR outputs on our players when connected direct to an amplifier or pre-amplifier.
EK: There is only one (Rothwell) Inline XLR Attenuator that is advertised as an Audiophile grade and owners and testers are not satisfied with distortion it bring to the signal path. Therefore, there is no viable solution to 105's inability to "gradually" transition between volume 0 and 1, at this time. I would encourage OPPO to reconsider its position and introduce a software solution for its loyal customers ...
Thanks in advance for your care and solution, soon.

Helloooo - customer service department's nightmare customer - is that you?

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Seriously though - you bought a product from them, not shares in the company.

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post #1086 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

There will sadly be NO firmware upgrade to solve this problem. This is what Oppo has told me ...twice!

I didn't know that the volume is reduced when downmixing MCH soundtracks. Thanks for the tip! a bummer to select lesser quality tracks to get the volume up to par.

While not ideal there are alot of headphone amps that could be used to fix the volume issue. Yes it is an added cost but if you want the function of the headphone output then a headphone amp would fix the volume issue.

True ..but i hadn't budgeted for a headphone amp. Still trying to convince myself to get either the Audeze  LCD-2 or Hifiman's HE-500 with $$$ nowhere to be found. And now even more for the HA?.... sigh!


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post #1087 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

There will sadly be NO firmware upgrade to solve this problem. This is what Oppo has told me ...twice!

I didn't know that the volume is reduced when downmixing MCH soundtracks. Thanks for the tip! a bummer to select lesser quality tracks to get the volume up to par.

My latest e-mail from OPPO (12/4/12) indicates that a software solution may be possible in the future:
Quote:
There are no plans at this time to adjust the gain or the attenuation which is created by the down-mixing of the headphone output. This may change in the future as we evaluate the player's performance and as we continue to receiver customer feedback. We are always striving for "perfection" so it is in our interest to support our community to the best of our engineering capabilities, but at this time we are not pursuing any alterations to the current headphone amplifier implementation.

Bob P. (who is a never-ending font of information about the 105 in this thread) also indicated that the attenuation on the headphone amp might be easily fixed.

It really is a shame that the headphone amp has this attenuation because without it the 105 would be the "bomb" when it comes to listening to Blu ray movies with 5.1 lossless sound through a nice pair of cans. More and more Blu rays only have 5.1 (or higher) soundtracks so unfortunately selecting a lesser quality track will not be a solution.

(If you have a movie that has several versions of the soundtrack, you can easily cycle through the different versions and see how much "punch" you're losing by selecting the 5.1 version. Frustrating. frown.gif )
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post #1088 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by edwardkim View Post

EK: We do not disagree on 105 output 2/4 Vrms as a player. But, OPPO is failing to acknowledge that 105 is being promoted as a Preamp as well as a player. Therefore, OPPO need to support industry standards for power amp input sensitivity which is 1Vrms, not 2/4. Otherwise, OPPO and its distributers, dealers and supporters should stop promoting 105 as a Preamp. Please, read recent comments on AVS Forum where 105 owners are beginning to post problems with 105 volume control in its role as a Preamp.[/INDENT]
Unfortunately we do not have any recommendation as to which XLR attenuator you should use, as we have not done any testing with these devices as we have not had a scenario where we needed to attenuate the XLR outputs on our players when connected direct to an amplifier or pre-amplifier.
EK: There is only one (Rothwell) Inline XLR Attenuator that is advertised as an Audiophile grade and owners and testers are not satisfied with distortion it bring to the signal path. Therefore, there is no viable solution to 105's inability to "gradually" transition between volume 0 and 1, at this time. I would encourage OPPO to reconsider its position and introduce a software solution for its loyal customers ...
Thanks in advance for your care and solution, soon.

Maybe in line attenuators are not the only possible hardware solution to this. For example a device like this:

http://www.goldpt.com/sa2x.html

which is sometimes known as a passive preamp may be suitable.

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post #1089 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

True ..but i hadn't budgeted for a headphone amp. Still trying to convince myself to get either the Audeze  LCD-2 or Hifiman's HE-500 with $$$ nowhere to be found. And now even more for the HA?.... sigh!

These high end orthos sound great, but really it's going to be tough to use them without a HA. Even if we get Oppo to fix the level of mix-downs on the 105 you will probably want an HA for use with other gear.

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post #1090 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardkim View Post

I agree with your propsed software solution. Unfortunately, OPPO is refusing to acknologied that 105 is being promoted as a Player and Preamp. Therefore, OPPO does not feel that 105 output need to support the industry standards for power amp input sensitivity which is 1 Vrms instead of 2Vrms (RCA) and 4.2Vrms (XLR). I contacted OPPO to present the issue with 105 output for its role as a Preamp and to encourage them to provide us with a software solution - see email below.
I have not contacted SimAudio yet because volume control is a function of a Preamp, and this issue need to be addressed by OPPO as long as 105 is being promoted for Player and Preamp roles.
OPPO suggest that I use an -12db Inline XLR Attnuator in between 105 and power amp while admitting that they never tested this solution.
OPPO further argued that they have not heard about volume control problems with 105 reviewers and customers, and I did point out to OPPO that some of the 105 owners have begun posting volume control problems on this AVS Forum.
I encourage 105 owners who have the similar problems to let OPPO know and post your experience with 105 volumne control as a Preamp. We need to work together to change OPPO's position to address this issue.
Until then, the following represents my current status on OPPO's response on this topic:
On 2012-12-12, at 3:40 PM, OPPO Service wrote:
Edward,
We disagree with your assertions and have not had any reviewers, customers, beta testers, or external advisers show an apprehension towards the player outputting 2Vrms for single ended analog outputs and 4.0Vrms through XLR.
EK: We do not disagree on 105 output 2/4 Vrms as a player. But, OPPO is failing to acknowledge that 105 is being promoted as a Preamp as well as a player. Therefore, OPPO need to support industry standards for power amp input sensitivity which is 1Vrms, not 2/4. Otherwise, OPPO and its distributers, dealers and supporters should stop promoting 105 as a Preamp. Please, read recent comments on AVS Forum where 105 owners are beginning to post problems with 105 volume control in its role as a Preamp.
Unfortunately we do not have any recommendation as to which XLR attenuator you should use, as we have not done any testing with these devices as we have not had a scenario where we needed to attenuate the XLR outputs on our players when connected direct to an amplifier or pre-amplifier.
EK: There is only one (Rothwell) Inline XLR Attenuator that is advertised as an Audiophile grade and owners and testers are not satisfied with distortion it bring to the signal path. Therefore, there is no viable solution to 105's inability to "gradually" transition between volume 0 and 1, at this time. I would encourage OPPO to reconsider its position and introduce a software solution for its loyal customers ...
Thanks in advance for your care and solution, soon.

I have to agree here and I would imagine that would prevent many to use the 105 as a preamp. I don't currently own the 105 but I am interested in it for other benefits and not so much as a preamp. I believe I do have a pretty decent preamp in the Classe SSP800.
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post #1091 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

I have to agree here and I would imagine that would prevent many to use the 105 as a preamp. I don't currently own the 105 but I am interested in it for other benefits and not so much as a preamp. I believe I do have a pretty decent preamp in the Classe SSP800.

You do have a nice and it is more convenient than than the Oppo's GUI. I also have a nice preamp, the McIntosh MX121 but i am testing the Oppo 105 as a preamp because I only use my current preamp as a switch as I had the Oppo 95 analog out go through the MX121 straight through my amp (no room correction, I dont care for that). When connecting directly to my amp (MC205) I do lose some gain and the sound is a bit different (not sure if worse or better, just different), but at this point I see more benefit in saving the AV money to move up the amp ladder than keeping an expensive preamp around that will be outdated when a new set of DACs or movie codes come out. Also, since I have been bypassing the MX121 DACs in favor of the Oppo, when the new movie sound codes come out I'll just have to change to the new Oppo and not upgrade the whole AV. In the end it is a personal choice...
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post #1092 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Are you using the new official FW? Your setup is standard and isn't unique at all. It should play well with Oppo. If not, you may contact them with details about your video card and such ...

personally, not too keen on option #2 but others here might think different and offer better ideas.

Yeah I updated the FW this morning so it is the latest. I thought option 1 should work also. I will contact Oppo and see what they have to say.
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post #1093 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 11:56 AM
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Folks, by my testing THERE ARE ADDITIONAL AUDIO/VIDEO SYNC IMPROVEMENTS in Official 1211 compared to the prior Public Beta 1205B. There are even more cases now where sync is CORRECT.

Thus my recommendation would be that you SHOULD update to Official 1211 rather than sticking with Public Beta 1205B.

Please note, the sync corrections are still a work in progress. The situation is improved, not solved.
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post #1094 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 12:07 PM
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Since I have not had any respnse to my Q regarding sound qualithy between XLR and RCA I take it no one has yet tried it.
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post #1095 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

True ..but i hadn't budgeted for a headphone amp. Still trying to convince myself to get either the Audeze  LCD-2 or Hifiman's HE-500 with $$$ nowhere to be found. And now even more for the HA?.... sigh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

These high end orthos sound great, but really it's going to be tough to use them without a HA. Even if we get Oppo to fix the level of mix-downs on the 105 you will probably want an HA for use with other gear.

Just this week I acquired a pair of used LCD-3s (moved up from the LCD-2s) and I've been listening to them with the 105 and there is enough headphone amp power for my listening needs for stereo recordings. (I'm at the mid 80s on the volume control.) The LCD-3's sound with the 105 is heavenly--so much so that my late night listening is ending later and later. The point being that with the Audez'e headphones (which are orthos), the 105 is certainly capable as a headphone amp and an additional headphone amp may not be needed.

Never heard or used any of the Hifiman's orthos, but from what I've read the HE-6s and HE- 4s are especially difficult to drive compared to their other models. (HE-300, 400, 500.)
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post #1096 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Audiovector View Post

Since I have not had any respnse to my Q regarding sound qualithy between XLR and RCA I take it no one has yet tried it.

This isn't as simple as it seems. Using the XLR connections when your pre amp and amp aren't fully balanced won't do anything. If your electronics are fully balanced, then it's quite likely they were designed for optimal performance using balanced as opposed to single ended. My electronics are fully balanced and sound better using that option. The thought of using the 105's single ended outputs was never an option because my electronics sound better using balanced.

The real question isn't which way the 105 sounds best. It's which way your electronics sound best. If they aren't fully balanced, the question is moot.
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post #1097 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 12:38 PM
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I wouldn't say that a passive pre-amp "has no distortion" or is necessarily always better than an active pre-amp. No solution is perfect. The reason in this case is simple: the passive preamp will change the output impedance seen by the amp. And worse, that output impedance will depend on the volume setting. Note that if the input impedance of the amp high enough, linear, and nor capacitive/inductive, it shouldn't matter. But it sounds like a lot of "maybe's" to me.

In other words, listen before you buy one, as you should do with any critical part of your system.
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post #1098 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchot View Post

Never heard or used any of the Hifiman's orthos, but from what I've read the HE-6s and HE- 4s are especially difficult to drive compared to their other models. (HE-300, 400, 500.)

The HE-6 published specs show they are 10dB less sensitive than the LCD-3. eek.gif
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post #1099 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

I have to agree here and I would imagine that would prevent many to use the 105 as a preamp. I don't currently own the 105 but I am interested in it for other benefits and not so much as a preamp. I believe I do have a pretty decent preamp in the Classe SSP800.

You are right that a good quality Passive Preamp like Goldpoint SA1X and another set of Interconnects would be a good "workaround" to address 105's inability to provide gradual volume increase from "0" to "1" which will likely costs a total of $700-$1,000 that I did not budget when I purchased 105.

The best solution is for OPPO to provide us with a software solution, right?
OPPO will likely provide a software solution, if enough customers ask for as they have done many times previously.
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post #1100 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardkim View Post

EK: We do not disagree on 105 output 2/4 Vrms as a player. But, OPPO is failing to acknowledge that 105 is being promoted as a Preamp as well as a player. Therefore, OPPO need to support industry standards for power amp input sensitivity which is 1Vrms, not 2/4. Otherwise, OPPO and its distributers, dealers and supporters should stop promoting 105 as a Preamp. Please, read recent comments on AVS Forum where 105 owners are beginning to post problems with 105 volume control in its role as a Preamp.[/INDENT]
Unfortunately we do not have any recommendation as to which XLR attenuator you should use, as we have not done any testing with these devices as we have not had a scenario where we needed to attenuate the XLR outputs on our players when connected direct to an amplifier or pre-amplifier.
EK: There is only one (Rothwell) Inline XLR Attenuator that is advertised as an Audiophile grade and owners and testers are not satisfied with distortion it bring to the signal path. Therefore, there is no viable solution to 105's inability to "gradually" transition between volume 0 and 1, at this time. I would encourage OPPO to reconsider its position and introduce a software solution for its loyal customers ...
Thanks in advance for your care and solution, soon.

Maybe in line attenuators are not the only possible hardware solution to this. For example a device like this:

http://www.goldpt.com/sa2x.html

which is sometimes known as a passive preamp may be suitable.

 

Nice .., since they are passive i wonder how their impedance changes with their knob setting?


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #1101 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Folks, by my testing THERE ARE ADDITIONAL AUDIO/VIDEO SYNC IMPROVEMENTS in Official 1211 compared to the prior Public Beta 1205B. There are even more cases now where sync is CORRECT.

Thus my recommendation would be that you SHOULD update to Official 1211 rather than sticking with Public Beta 1205B.

Please note, the sync corrections are still a work in progress. The situation is improved, not solved.
--Bob

 

Maybe now the question should be "Is ANYONE still having A/V sync issues with the Official 1211 firmware?"

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How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #1102 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchot View Post

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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

True ..but i hadn't budgeted for a headphone amp. Still trying to convince myself to get either the Audeze  LCD-2 or Hifiman's HE-500 with $$$ nowhere to be found. And now even more for the HA?.... sigh!
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Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

These high end orthos sound great, but really it's going to be tough to use them without a HA. Even if we get Oppo to fix the level of mix-downs on the 105 you will probably want an HA for use with other gear.

Just this week I acquired a pair of used LCD-3s (moved up from the LCD-2s) and I've been listening to them with the 105 and there is enough headphone amp power for my listening needs for stereo recordings. (I'm at the mid 80s on the volume control.) The LCD-3's sound with the 105 is heavenly--so much so that my late night listening is ending later and later. The point being that with the Audez'e headphones (which are orthos), the 105 is certainly capable as a headphone amp and an additional headphone amp may not be needed.

Never heard or used any of the Hifiman's orthos, but from what I've read the HE-6s and HE- 4s are especially difficult to drive compared to their other models. (HE-300, 400, 500.)

 

What a relief Franchot! Thank you for posting that. If you comfortable with a volume level in the mid-80s for stereo content, then that's an excellent start for me. How old are your LCD-2's? Are they the rev2 version? Is the sound of the LCD-3 worth the extra $1000 over the LCD-2? I know ...questions, questions and more questions but simply .... inquiry minds want to knowbiggrin.gif!

 

It seems Oppo's answer to the HA issue is inconsistent. On the one hand they say,"No, it cannot be done" and OTOH they say, "We've simply not looked at it but we could visit the issue later on as part of our on-going effort to please our customers".  So, which is it???


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #1103 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by lap777 View Post

I wouldn't say that a passive pre-amp "has no distortion" or is necessarily always better than an active pre-amp. No solution is perfect. The reason in this case is simple: the passive preamp will change the output impedance seen by the amp. And worse, that output impedance will depend on the volume setting. Note that if the input impedance of the amp high enough, linear, and nor capacitive/inductive, it shouldn't matter. But it sounds like a lot of "maybe's" to me.

In other words, listen before you buy one, as you should do with any critical part of your system.

 

Yup, the original poster (EdwardKim) discounted the fixed XLR attenuators because he read reviews somewhere that they colored the sound. I think he should listen to them for himself on a trial basis before he jumps to that conclusion.


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #1104 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchot View Post

Never heard or used any of the Hifiman's orthos, but from what I've read the HE-6s and HE- 4s are especially difficult to drive compared to their other models. (HE-300, 400, 500.)

The HE-6 published specs show they are 10dB less sensitive than the LCD-3. eek.gif

 

Yup ...and that's why i compared the LCD-2 to the HE-500 and not to the HE-6smile.gif...


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #1105 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Yup, the original poster (EdwardKim) discounted the fixed XLR attenuators because he read reviews somewhere that they colored the sound. I think he should listen to them for himself on a trial basis before he jumps to that conclusion.

Colored sound was one of few critical reasons why I ranked Fixed Inline XLR Attenuators as a least attractive workaround - e.g. it would require me to move my Amp forward to create enough clearance that I don't have to install the Attenuators behind the amp.
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post #1106 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardkim View Post

You are right that a good quality Passive Preamp like Goldpoint SA1X and another set of Interconnects would be a good "workaround" to address 105's inability to provide gradual volume increase from "0" to "1" which will likely costs a total of $700-$1,000 that I did not budget when I purchased 105.
The best solution is for OPPO to provide us with a software solution, right?

There are all sorts of possibilities. Maybe a third party firmware fix could happen. Or a mod.

The primary intent here was to point out what seemed to be an alternative to inline attenuators. Maybe it makes economic sense to you, or not. That's hard for me to say.

One thing about passive preamps that is very interesting to me is that it's one of the equipment types where DIY is rampant.
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OPPO will likely provide a software solution, if enough customers ask for as they have done many times previously.

From your mouth to Oppo's ears.

"Nature Abhors a Vacuum Tube" -  J. R. Pierce
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post #1107 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

What a relief Franchot! Thank you for posting that. If you comfortable with a volume level in the mid-80s for stereo content, then that's an excellent start for me. How old are your LCD-2's? Are they the rev2 version? Is the sound of the LCD-3 worth the extra $1000 over the LCD-2? I know ...questions, questions and more questions but simply .... inquiry minds want to know:D !

It seems Oppo's answer to the HA issue is inconsistent. On the one hand they say,"No, it cannot be done" and OTOH they say, "We've simply not looked at it but we could visit the issue later on as part of our on-going effort to please our customers".  So, which is it???

The LCD-2s were manufactured in May 2012 and are rev2. I picked them up used and were in excellent condition. I liked them immediately, but once you taste the LCD-2s your mind starts to question as to what does the LCD-3s have to offer. I was able to get a used LCD-3 (manufactured in August 2012) in excellent condition and I'm extremely happy with them. The bass is phenomenal (very articulate and defined) and the sound stage is wider than the LCD-2s. The mid and upper regions also sound more forward to me. Are the the LCD-2s twice as good as the LCD-3s at twice the price? No. If I hadn't gotten the LCD-3 at the used price, I wouldn't have bought them. The LCD-3s do not represent a substantial value for your money over the LCD-2s. The LCD-2's greatness is not multiplied by 2 in the LCD-3s. The LCD-3s are a step up and not a giant leap from the LCD-2s.

I'm no electronics guru, but I think you or any of the other experts on this board who know how the inner workings of the 105 operate can best answer the question of "Can the headphone amp be easily modified through a firmware upgrade?" What do you think?smile.gif
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post #1108 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Actually, in my research on SACD spectral content, i found that many recording studios drastically kill off content above 22kHz, a brickwall filter of sorts! Suprised the heck out of me indeed. So the filter characteristics used on these SACD's isn't any better than the 44.1kHz used on RedBook CDs. The only difference from regular CD  is that you are using 24-bits instead of 16-bits with both formats drastically attenuating content above 22kHz.


Looking at the spectral content of some instruments, their relative level of the > 20kHz harmonics (produced by Cymbals up to100kHz and Trumpets up to 90kHz) is on the same or greater level than the ones shown in the 105 plots. The 95 is similar in that regards as well to the 105 and i guess any ther SACD player with DSD capability. The great Nelson Pass (of the Pass Labs fame) said to avoid phase distortions, one has to open up the bandwidth of the amplifier or source device. What am i saying is of these >20kHz harmonics are cut off or smeared by the quantization noise, it smears the phase relationships of the original signals which many say produces audible distortions.

Remember, this noise issue is NOT an Oppo problem at all. Its the law-of-the-land when using any SACD shiny disks, All SACD players exhibit these characteristics.

You can do what the great Nelson Pass said or you can add an all pass filter in cascade with the reconstruction filter that linearizes the phase response of the system, giving all frequency components the same group delay.

I still don't see what the issue is with the noise up there even if there are harmonics from some instruments if the ear can't hear those frequencies. Possibly an issue exciting resonances in metal tweeters at ultrasonic freqs, but other than that, if you can't hear it you can't hear it.
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post #1109 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 04:48 PM
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Here is the Oppo response as to why we cannot make a playlist from stored music files on an external hard drive:

"The ability to support Playlists was supported briefly then was removed during the beta testing phase of the player. At this time are not planning on having Playlist control added to a future firmware release, but we are investigating the support for technologies like M3U and CUE so you can create a Playlist on a computer and then use this on the player."

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119
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post #1110 of 11318 Old 12-13-2012, 05:46 PM
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Hi Delkat,

Sorry it took me some time to answer your question:
I use JRiver (18) on a PC, which is my music server (older thinkpad x200) attached to the OPPO 105 via USB, to play my music rips stored on a NAS in FLAC (Dlink DNS3232, 2+2T).
Navigation in JRiver is done through their remote application (Gizmo) on a Xoom tablet.
Update on the music server (importing files and tag/soft update) is done through remote access from my home-office desktop PC.
Everything is hardwired through a gigabit lan router. The Thinkpad is up to the task, but not gigabit, so I may replace it with a small form factor PC that will also sit gently on the back of my plasma screen.

I selected that direct way, USB over DLNA, to avoid the un-ability of Oppo-105 to play gapless and keep the stream to the Oppo buffered in the PC, avoiding hiccups and drop outs.
Also, all kind of Hi-resolution files (24/192 or SACD rips) are played beautifully.
In another hand, navigating from the Oppo my NAS for playing music is not an option (too many files...)
As for Video, I have only a few and access them directly from the Oppo via the home/network menu.

That setting fits my needs, did reduce the number of hardware, I went form a BD player + DVD-A/SACD + DAC to a single BD/DVD-A/SACD/DAC that also improve the end result: Quality, to my ears, of the resulting sound.
The combination of JRiver high quality sound processing and Oppo DAC is simply outstanding!
I may pull some shiny disk from the storage to do some A-B comparison, but it may tale some time to do it since I am very happy right now.

I am a very happy first time Oppo owner and would recommend it without the shadow of a doubt!

Kami
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