Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 382 - AVS Forum
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post #11431 of 11447 Old Yesterday, 03:55 PM
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Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread

^ It's just not feasible and extremely difficult to carry out DSP operations in a 1-bit bitstream. I don't even think recording studios (most of them) are doing it. Typically, audio is recorded in PCM, then DSP operations are applied, then convert to DSD for SACD mastering. I believe "Blue Coast Music" is recording direct to DSD, however.
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post #11432 of 11447 Old Yesterday, 04:04 PM
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Playing multi-channel DSD files
As an experiment, I have downloaded some sample .dsf files that are claimed to be multi-channel DSD recordings (something confirmed when I check the metadata settings). However, all my attempts to play these files on my Oppo DSD-105 have only generated a stereo signal. I have no such problem when playing multi-channel SACDs.

Does the Oppo not support multi-channel DSD files?

David


EDIT: I note that the input specs for the 105D on Oppo's UK website mention "up to 2ch/2.8224MHz/5.6448MHz DSD", so that seems to confirm that my 105 can't do multi-channel DSD. Is that likely to be added via a future firmware upgrade?

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post #11433 of 11447 Old Yesterday, 04:48 PM
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^ Read more carefully. That's the spec for feeding DSD into to Asynchronous USB DAC Input, which IS limited to stereo.

Playing media files from an attached or networked hard drive DOES support multi-channel, normal rate DSD.
--Bob
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post #11434 of 11447 Old Yesterday, 04:50 PM
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While on this DLNA and DSD topic again.....

I'm using Foobar with the UPNP and DSD plugins. Using a NAS drive with Twonkey. Having problems streaming DSD to Oppo 105. The Foobar UPNP controller shows it's streaming PCM when playing DSD files. Oppo receives and plays fine. Not sure how to tell Foobar to stream DSD instead of PCM. I've messed around with the settings in Preferences, but nothing seems to work as it still shows PCM.

Are there any instructions on how to configure Foobar to output DSD over network??? I'm stomped!

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post #11435 of 11447 Old Yesterday, 05:08 PM
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^ Can't you just tell it to NOT transcode the DSD stream? In the JRiver DLNA server section of the app, one can set an option to push audio files to a renderer "as is"; no transcoding.
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post #11436 of 11447 Old Yesterday, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post
^ Can't you just tell it to NOT transcode the DSD stream? In the JRiver DLNA server section of the app, one can set an option to push audio files to a renderer "as is"; no transcoding.
If it's there, I don't see it. I'm very confused by the menu system and terminology. I think my NAS is "the server", My Oppo is "the Renderer", and my Foobar is "the Controller" - am I right???

Most of my SACD's are ripped to ISO files. Foobar can open and play the contents fine. Historically, I've used HDMI to connect my PC to my Oppo, so DSD wasn't possible. Foobar converted to PCM and sent to Oppo. But now I want to try UPNP so I can have Oppo receive and play DSD without conversions to PCM.

When I play a file in the ISO, the Foobar controller shows PCM going to Oppo. Then I downloaded two DSD files (one dff and one dsf) and these don't play at all. No error message either. When I hit play in Foobar, it just says "Play Stopped". So somehow it's converting the individiual files in the ISO to PCM and sending them to Oppo, but not the dsf and dff.

Thanks for the help!

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post #11437 of 11447 Old Yesterday, 05:54 PM
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Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread

^ Twonky is your DLNA Server running embedded on your NAS's microprocessor. I wish I could give you some effective solutions for your equipment, but I have never used Twonky or Foobar software. I've heard that minimserver running embedded on a NAS supports DSD. All I can tell you, as it relates to your Oppo player with regards to DSD is that the 105 can't parse DSD .iso files. It needs to see either .dsf or .dff container formats for dsd audio via your home network or attached usb storage. I don't recall whether it was you or some other user who mentioned using the hdmi input on their 105 to playback audio, but the hdmi input can't receive dsd audio, only LPCM formats.
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post #11438 of 11447 Old Today, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ Read more carefully. That's the spec for feeding DSD into to Asynchronous USB DAC Input, which IS limited to stereo.
Playing media files from an attached or networked hard drive DOES support multi-channel, normal rate DSD.
--Bob
On rechecking that Oppo specifications page, I now see that I was indeed reading the second line of the 'USB Audio:' description. However, that DSD spec was in bold text and looked like a standalone entry, so I never read the line above! It was also late at night here in the UK and my brain had already commenced its shutdown process...

That same late night syndrome may also explain why my initial attempts to use multi-channel DSD files always played in stereo. This morning, my multi-channel DSD files play in surround sound! I'm not aware of having done anything different from what I did last night, so it is rather puzzling.

BTW, where does Oppo document the BDP-105's DSD capabilities via local USB or network connections?
David
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post #11439 of 11447 Old Today, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haggis999 View Post
BTW, where does Oppo document the BDP-105's DSD capabilities via local USB or network connections?
David
I can personally confirm that I'm able to play multi-channel DSD64 (.dff and .dsf) streams via directly connected USB storage devices. And via UPnP and SMB network connections... The multi-channel DSD bit-stream is passed from my Oppo via HDMI to my Onkyo amplifier

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post #11440 of 11447 Old Today, 04:47 AM
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I can personally confirm that I'm able to play multi-channel DSD64 (.dff and .dsf) streams via directly connected USB storage devices. And via UPnP and SMB network connections... The multi-channel DSD bit-stream is passed from my Oppo via HDMI to my Onkyo amplifier
As I said in my last post, I am also now able to play multi-channel DSD files. Why it didn't work for me last night remains a mystery.


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Exclude centre channel when playing multi-channel music?
In a conventional AV configuration the TV is located mid way between the front left and right speakers, with the seating facing the TV. However, real world room layouts are always a compromise between many different conflicting requirements. In our case, the position of the two sofas in our L-shaped living room forces the TV to be placed at an angle just to the left of the left hand speaker. Try as I may, I can't find an alternative layout that doesn't create a worse problem.

The centre channel speaker also has to be in the same place as the TV or it creates a very odd effect. Surprisingly, this unusual arrangement of our front speakers does not seem to cause any irritation when watching movies. Even the first 20 mins of Saving Private Ryan doesn't generate any obvious examples of bullets travelling in anything other than straight lines!

Multi-channel music is another matter. Here you are purely focused on the sound and I have a feeling that some of my recordings don't sound quite right as a result of the misplacement of the centre speaker (I have not yet tried an experiment with this speaker in the correct place as the cables are not long enough).

I has just occurred to me that it might be better to exclude the centre channel when playing multi-channel music. Is there any way to configure the Oppo to achieve such a setup?

David
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I has just occurred to me that it might be better to exclude the centre channel when playing multi-channel music. Is there any way to configure the Oppo to achieve such a setup?

David
In short, no you can't configure the Oppo to do what you're suggesting when passing native bit-stream audio!

I do not propose you do this, as many 'music' surround sound sources are encoded with discrete/dedicated front centre channel information. Which would be lost...

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post #11443 of 11447 Old Today, 05:34 AM
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In short, no you can't configure the Oppo to do what you're suggesting when passing native bit-stream audio!

I do not propose you do this, as many 'music' surround sound sources are encoded with discrete/dedicated front centre channel information. Which would be lost...
I was vaguely hoping that there might be some obscure configuration option that could somehow allocate the centre channel info to the left and right speakers and was forgetting that the direct DSD option prevents any messing with the signal.

Perhaps I should feed my centre channel speaker with longer cables and attach castors to its stand, so that I can move it when required. However, it might just be easier to use stereo DSD files or the stereo SACD layer of my hybrid disks. I've not spent enough time listening to the multi-channel layer of my small (but growing) classical SACD collection to know which option I prefer.

David
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post #11444 of 11447 Old Today, 06:58 AM
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When you are using DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion, either in the OPPO itself or by passing HDMI DSD to an AVR which offers that, one of the audio processing steps you lose is Speaker Distance compensation. That could account for what you are hearing.

Set SACD Output PCM, and recheck your speaker configuration settings including distance and levels. Check levels with tracks 43-48 from "Stay in Tune with PentaTone", SACD. Then see if you still feel the Center is wrong.

While you are at it, double-check speaker wiring polarity to be sure you have all speakers the same. Screwing that up will introduce phase errors. You can test that with a calibration disc as well such as AIX Audio Calibration, Blu-ray.

Once you've got DSD via PCM dialed only THEN try DSD direct and see if it still sounds better after the loss of audio processing like speaker distance compensation.

For DSD direct you need a vanilla speaker setup -- at least 5.1 speakers set equidistant and matched in output. In addition, these all need to be Full Range speakers as you can't get Crossover processing either.
--Bob

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post #11445 of 11447 Old Today, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by haggis999 View Post
I was vaguely hoping that there might be some obscure configuration option that could somehow allocate the centre channel info to the left and right speakers and was forgetting that the direct DSD option prevents any messing with the signal.

Perhaps I should feed my centre channel speaker with longer cables and attach castors to its stand, so that I can move it when required. However, it might just be easier to use stereo DSD files or the stereo SACD layer of my hybrid disks. I've not spent enough time listening to the multi-channel layer of my small (but growing) classical SACD collection to know which option I prefer.

David
There are some multichannel recordings that are only 4.0 or 4.1 and don't have a center channel. A lot of them are from the old quadraphonic days when surround meant only four channels. Some of those would be perfect for your situation.

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post #11446 of 11447 Old Today, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post
^ Twonky is your DLNA Server running embedded on your NAS's microprocessor. I wish I could give you some effective solutions for your equipment, but I have never used Twonky or Foobar software. I've heard that minimserver running embedded on a NAS supports DSD. All I can tell you, as it relates to your Oppo player with regards to DSD is that the 105 can't parse DSD .iso files. It needs to see either .dsf or .dff container formats for dsd audio via your home network or attached usb storage. I don't recall whether it was you or some other user who mentioned using the hdmi input on their 105 to playback audio, but the hdmi input can't receive dsd audio, only LPCM formats.
Dan, I truly appreciate your input. As I do more research, this just becomes more complex. The problem of streaming DSD could be in Twonkey server. I'm just frustrated and not sure if I want to continue with this venture. Researching and seeing what server software is compatible with what kind of NAS and files that need to be modified just seems like a lot of work. Each Google search just brings up other discussions that can be 100+ pages! Not sure if I'm ready to dedicate all the time and effort that's needed as this is much more complex than I imagined. And all this work to get DSD direct instead of DSD converted to PCM. I can't hear the difference anyways, but the OCD in me just wants it!

I can only hope the next version of the Oppo allows for stereo and multi-channel DSD via HDMI or USB directly from a computer. That would really simplify things.

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post #11447 of 11447 Old Today, 01:53 PM
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So I bought a 1tb USB hard drive to attach to my 105. I was planning to use it for SACD files. I put the few files I had on it and it worked great. Just for fun I had the SACD (DSD) files on the PC hard drive made available on my network (hardwired to the 105) and they showed up and played perfect on the oppo. I thought one needed the USB connection to do this?
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