Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 427 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 315Likes
Reply
Thread Tools
post #12781 of 12793 Old 05-04-2015, 10:52 PM
Member
 
linger63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardV View Post
Just to add a note/question.....Isn't an amplifier with a gain control actually an amp which has a pre-amp built-in?

Unlike Patchesj, my amp needs more output from the Oppo. I can have the Oppo volume at 100% and still need more. I live in an apartment, so I won't get a pre-amp - this limitation is a blessing for my neighbors and a guide for me to not crank it up really loud when I've been drinking

But my speakers and amp are clearly saying to me "is this all you got? Give us more!". If I ever move into a house where neighbors aren't an issue, I would have to add a pre-amp. Sometimes I wish my amp had gain controls. But many amps don't.





Hi,




Here's something that might help you get a bit louder.


Try connecting a hybrid I/C from the XLR outs of your OPPO to the RCA ins on your Gallo's.


The XLR outputs on the OPPO are 4V whereas the RCA's are 2V.


You should still be able to achieve a higher volume level and get some of the benefits that OPPO claim to have added to the XLR outs.

Apologies if you are ALREADY doing this!!!




Cheers
linger63 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12782 of 12793 Old Yesterday, 12:05 AM
Member
 
patchesj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by stehno View Post
Thanks for the correction.
Right... I have turned down the gains on the amps, turned up the Oppo volume and noticed increased detail. I've dug into the DAC specs and it appears they are expanding out the DSD signal to 32 bits and truncating for volume control, similar to the method with PCM but without converting DSD to PCM. The actual magic behind this is hush hush apparently... The claim is that this method does not impact sound quality or increase S/N ratios, but I have a repeatable test to say it does (at least in a non-blind subjective test ). I would love to have other people try this to make sure I'm not just hearing things. An interesting note is that PCM material does not seem to have the same increase in detail. So either the claim of their method being magic is not true and PCM is always losing detail, or the nature of DSD makes it more susceptible to bit truncation (even with a string of 0's) than PCM. This seems odd as PCM would only give an extra 8 bits of 0's for volume (24bit material for hi-res, expanded to 32bit) vs 26 bits of 0 (DSD @ 6 bits)
patchesj is offline  
post #12783 of 12793 Old Yesterday, 05:43 AM
Senior Member
 
LairdWilliams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
Posts: 411
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 131 Post(s)
Liked: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardV View Post
Just to add a note/question.....Isn't an amplifier with a gain control actually an amp which has a pre-amp built-in?
Actually, not necessarily. The gain control on a power amp is often really just an input level control - a variable attenuator that comes very shortly after the input circuit that controls the signal level entering the power amp circuit. Not always - some power amps definitely DO have preamps "hiding" at their inputs.

"Gain" controls are kind of misleadingly named. The actual amplifier part of an amplifier circuit, whether a voltage amp (preamp) stage or power amp stage, has its actual amplification level fixed to one level. It is the job of attenuator circuits to control signal levels entering or leaving that stage. When you turn up the gain control on an amp, you are really just turning DOWN the amount of attenuation being applied by an attenuator circuit. On a power amp, this is almost always placed before the first part of the amp circuit - often right after the input stage. There are exceptions, of course. I have built some designs for class A/B power amps where the volume control was between the phase inverter and the power amp section, called "post-PI volume" for obvious reasons.

The point I was trying to make is about matching. You buy a power amp, with or without a preamp circuit, and for the input on that amp, there is an optimal range of circuit characteristics in the source device that work best for that amp. This often has to do with signal levels, but it can also have lot to do with impedances and sometimes, at least with longer cable lengths, cable capacitance (this is not usually an issue in hi-fi though). If you purchase a piece of source gear, it may well be able to produce a signal that is pretty close to the middle of those characteristics. But that is a bit like winning the lottery. You just got lucky. MOST of the time, the source gear outputs are far from ideal for a given power amp input. Adapting the one to "play nicely" with the other is exactly what a preamp is for.

Display: Panasonic P60UT50 (Plasma)
Speakers: (4) Monitor Audio Silver 9i (Front and Surround), (1) Monitor Audio Silver 12i (Center), (4) Monitor Audio Silver 4i (Rear and Wide), (2) Aperion Audio Bravus II 8d (Subwoofers)
Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-87 AVR (9.2)
Sources: Oppo BDP-103, Roku 3, Cable...
LairdWilliams is offline  
post #12784 of 12793 Old Yesterday, 09:43 AM
Senior Member
 
HowardV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 478
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by LairdWilliams View Post
Actually, not necessarily. The gain control on a power amp is often really just an input level control.....
Thanks for the explanation, although it goes above the level of my understanding. But I completely agree that it's a crap shoot in hoping that the Oppo's output will match an amplifier's input perfectly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by linger63 View Post
Hi,

Here's something that might help you get a bit louder.

Try connecting a hybrid I/C from the XLR outs of your OPPO to the RCA ins on your Gallo's.


The XLR outputs on the OPPO are 4V whereas the RCA's are 2V.
I appreciate the advice. But most of my music listening is multichannel. Unfortunately, Oppo only has RCA outputs for multichannel. I could still use the XLR output for front left/right, but I'd have to turn down the levels to match the center/rear RCA outputs...which would defeat the purpose of using XLR for the higher output.

My main amp is the Spectron (which has both RCA and XLR inputs). The Gallo amps just power the 2nd voice coil of the speakers. I wish the Oppo had all XLR outputs as well.

Oppo BDP-105 Blu-Ray
Spectron Premiere MKII 7 Channel Class D Amp (500w x 7)
2 Anthony Gallo Reference SA Amps
5 Anthony Gallo Reference 3.5 Speakers
Sunfire Super JR Subwoofer
Sony Z2 Series laptop as dedicated HTPC
HowardV is online now  
post #12785 of 12793 Old Yesterday, 10:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mongo171's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 2,516
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 433 Post(s)
Liked: 949
^^^MCH is also Output on HDMI.

"I am a Meat Popsicle." - Corbin Dallas, "The Fifth Element"

Klipsch Chorus II (Mains); Klipsch Academy (Center) (KLF-C7 waiting in the wings); Klipsch RS-62 II (Surrounds); SVS PC13-Ultra (Big Bada Boom); ATI AT1505 (Amp); OPPO BDP-105 (Blu-ray Player); Panasonic 60GT50 (Plasma TV)
Mongo171 is online now  
post #12786 of 12793 Old Yesterday, 05:30 PM
Member
 
jilgiljongiljing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm a bit unclear on this Multi-channel analog out put vs HDMI.

Right now I have the BDP-105 connected to my Pioneer elite receiver via both HDMI and Multi channel analog 7.1 RCA cables. Problem as has been mentioned by many before is that I dont get any of the EQ and management capabilities on the Analog input selection. I have two inputs set on the Pioneer, one with HDMI so I can do NEO:6 conversion on online videos and home videos that are lo-res, and another one for the multi-channel inputs to utilize the Oppo DAC.

When I watch hi-res material I want to be able to use the Oppo's DACs for doing D-A duties and use the Pioneer to do just the amplification, but also give me some ability with the EQ so I can trim my fronts a bit on the bass.

I am not quite able to figure this out. How do I connect the Oppo to my Receiver, with the Oppo doing the D/A duties and the Amp doing the EQ. It appears this may not be possible. If I set it to output LPCM via HDMI, then its just decoding the format but still letting the Pioneer do the D/A conversion after processing, if I let the Oppo send it out of the analog RCA, I dont get to change anything. Is there any other way around?

If this is the case, are all the folks using the Multi channel analog outputs from the Oppo simply running it straight to their speakers without any EQ?

Right now I'm thinking either Bass traps, or a processor with EQ on the analog inputs (does something like that even exist?)
jilgiljongiljing is online now  
post #12787 of 12793 Old Yesterday, 06:00 PM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,527
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 876 Post(s)
Liked: 1124
To use the OPPO DACs you have to use the Analog audio outputs.

It is actually pretty typical that AVRs won't "process" multi-channel Analog audio input. That's a feature typically resolved for the high-end AVRs and prepros. Note that to DO that sort of processing, the Analog input first has to be re-digitized. Then after processing (Room EQ and/or whatever -- all of which is done digitally) it gets converted BACK to Analog for transmission to the power amps and speakers. That conversion back to Analog would be done by the DACs in the high-end AVR or prepro.

If the AVRs redigitizing and DACs are good enough this can all work well. On the other hand, if you send HDMI LPCM or Bitstream to the AVR the redigitizing step is eliminated.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
post #12788 of 12793 Old Yesterday, 06:05 PM
Senior Member
 
LairdWilliams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
Posts: 411
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 131 Post(s)
Liked: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by jilgiljongiljing View Post
I'm a bit unclear on this Multi-channel analog out put vs HDMI.

Right now I have the BDP-105 connected to my Pioneer elite receiver via both HDMI and Multi channel analog 7.1 RCA cables. Problem as has been mentioned by many before is that I dont get any of the EQ and management capabilities on the Analog input selection. I have two inputs set on the Pioneer, one with HDMI so I can do NEO:6 conversion on online videos and home videos that are lo-res, and another one for the multi-channel inputs to utilize the Oppo DAC.

When I watch hi-res material I want to be able to use the Oppo's DACs for doing D-A duties and use the Pioneer to do just the amplification, but also give me some ability with the EQ so I can trim my fronts a bit on the bass.

I am not quite able to figure this out. How do I connect the Oppo to my Receiver, with the Oppo doing the D/A duties and the Amp doing the EQ. It appears this may not be possible. If I set it to output LPCM via HDMI, then its just decoding the format but still letting the Pioneer do the D/A conversion after processing, if I let the Oppo send it out of the analog RCA, I dont get to change anything. Is there any other way around?

If this is the case, are all the folks using the Multi channel analog outputs from the Oppo simply running it straight to their speakers without any EQ?

Right now I'm thinking either Bass traps, or a processor with EQ on the analog inputs (does something like that even exist?)
Which Pioneer Elite model? You may have promoted yourself to the department of redundancy department - a situation where you payed handsomely for TWO very high-end DACs when only one can be in the signal path at a time...

...at which point I would shoot for convenience and room correction and just use HDMI.
linger63 likes this.

Display: Panasonic P60UT50 (Plasma)
Speakers: (4) Monitor Audio Silver 9i (Front and Surround), (1) Monitor Audio Silver 12i (Center), (4) Monitor Audio Silver 4i (Rear and Wide), (2) Aperion Audio Bravus II 8d (Subwoofers)
Receiver: Pioneer Elite SC-87 AVR (9.2)
Sources: Oppo BDP-103, Roku 3, Cable...
LairdWilliams is offline  
post #12789 of 12793 Old Yesterday, 11:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Frank Derks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Region A,B,C
Posts: 1,983
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jilgiljongiljing View Post
I'm a bit unclear on this Multi-channel analog out put vs HDMI.

Right now I have the BDP-105 connected to my Pioneer elite receiver via both HDMI and Multi channel analog 7.1 RCA cables. Problem as has been mentioned by many before is that I dont get any of the EQ and management capabilities on the Analog input selection. I have two inputs set on the Pioneer, one with HDMI so I can do NEO:6 conversion on online videos and home videos that are lo-res, and another one for the multi-channel inputs to utilize the Oppo DAC.

When I watch hi-res material I want to be able to use the Oppo's DACs for doing D-A duties and use the Pioneer to do just the amplification, but also give me some ability with the EQ so I can trim my fronts a bit on the bass.

I am not quite able to figure this out. How do I connect the Oppo to my Receiver, with the Oppo doing the D/A duties and the Amp doing the EQ. It appears this may not be possible. If I set it to output LPCM via HDMI, then its just decoding the format but still letting the Pioneer do the D/A conversion after processing, if I let the Oppo send it out of the analog RCA, I dont get to change anything. Is there any other way around?

If this is the case, are all the folks using the Multi channel analog outputs from the Oppo simply running it straight to their speakers without any EQ?

Right now I'm thinking either Bass traps, or a processor with EQ on the analog inputs (does something like that even exist?)

Some out of the box thinking:


Buy a nanoAVR (HD or Dirac version) from miniDSP for the room correction and add an Oppo 103D.
Oppo 103D -> nanoAVR -> hdmi input Oppo 105.


The 105 is used as a multichannel dac while the 103 is doing the player/streaming duties.
Frank Derks is online now  
post #12790 of 12793 Unread Today, 07:41 AM
Member
 
jilgiljongiljing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by LairdWilliams View Post
Which Pioneer Elite model? You may have promoted yourself to the department of redundancy department - a situation where you payed handsomely for TWO very high-end DACs when only one can be in the signal path at a time...

...at which point I would shoot for convenience and room correction and just use HDMI.
I have an older model the SC-27, I for one an quite certain the Oppo DACs are better, maybe it wont make all that much of a difference for majority of the material, but with lots of good music coming out in the hi-res formats on Bluray, I'd like to use the BEST DAC in my chain.

I just wish the Oppo would have had this as an option, a 10 band parametric you can mess with. You measure the room, you figure it out and then set it manually on the Oppo (Kinda like the Outlaw Processor)
jilgiljongiljing is online now  
post #12791 of 12793 Unread Today, 07:43 AM
Member
 
jilgiljongiljing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post
Some out of the box thinking:


Buy a nanoAVR (HD or Dirac version) from miniDSP for the room correction and add an Oppo 103D.
Oppo 103D -> nanoAVR -> hdmi input Oppo 105.


The 105 is used as a multichannel dac while the 103 is doing the player/streaming duties.
This is quite the chain and will indeed solve it, but maybe a bit overkill
jilgiljongiljing is online now  
post #12792 of 12793 Unread Today, 07:50 AM
Member
 
jilgiljongiljing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
To use the OPPO DACs you have to use the Analog audio outputs.

It is actually pretty typical that AVRs won't "process" multi-channel Analog audio input. That's a feature typically resolved for the high-end AVRs and prepros. Note that to DO that sort of processing, the Analog input first has to be re-digitized. Then after processing (Room EQ and/or whatever -- all of which is done digitally) it gets converted BACK to Analog for transmission to the power amps and speakers. That conversion back to Analog would be done by the DACs in the high-end AVR or prepro.

If the AVRs redigitizing and DACs are good enough this can all work well. On the other hand, if you send HDMI LPCM or Bitstream to the AVR the redigitizing step is eliminated.
--Bob
Exactly, I've been thinking about swapping out the SC-27, I could in theory get a new Pre and run the SC-27 as a power amp for now and invest in a power amp later, but then it looks like all of them would work in the digital domain to do any corrections and hence defeat the purpose.

This does bring me back to my original question, is the Oppo 105 really designed for people who have perfect rooms and speakers and an AVR that wont touch the Audio AND Video? for if its not, then why do we need all the bells and whistles on the 105?
jilgiljongiljing is online now  
post #12793 of 12793 Unread Today, 08:19 AM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,527
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 876 Post(s)
Liked: 1124
^ The 105 and 105D are intended for people who want to use a pure Analog signal path for Audio external to the player. Some folks who do that for music still use HDMI audio for movies, typically to get access to value-added audio processing in their HDMI-capable AVR. For Analog, they set the AVR to pass-through the Analog signal unprocessed except for volume control.

Some other folks use the 105 and 105D as a simple pre-amp. I.e., they have its Analog outputs connected directly to their power amps. Of course they still use HDMI for video.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Blu-ray Players

Tags
Oppo Bdp 105 Blu Ray Player

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off