Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 433 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12961 of 13762 Old 06-10-2015, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post
It sounds to me (with those two pieces of electronics you just listed) that you are going to be doing digital signal processing on your 105D's audio output, which would defeat the creation of the analog signal produced by your 105D. If you will be converting the Oppo's analog signal to digital (through room correction or any other audio processing), then it would be more cost effective for you to get a 103D instead and send the digital(hdmi) signal to your signal processors. If you want to use the 105D like a preamp and send the analog output to a power amp, then you're good to go with the 105D's analog outputs.
The Krell doesn't have HDMI, so I am going to use the balanced inputs, and the 7.1 analog inputs. The Krell will then send the analog (balanced or 7.1) to the DDRC 88A for room processing, and that will then go straight to the amps. If the Krell is pulled out (if it doesn't sound better than the Oppo), then the Oppo will output via 7.1 analog to the DDRC-88a, and then to the amps. So will it still be better to go with the 103D?
Go with the 103D. Both versions of what you are talking about is converting Digital to Analog twice. Not the best situation.
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post #12962 of 13762 Old 06-10-2015, 02:21 PM
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Just curious as how do you setup the Oppo to share a Network HD on the network? I had it working for years but just switched to the newer Airport Extreme and now I changed the name of my network and now the Oppo will not see it. It is hooked up via Ethernet. It was there now it disappeared. Well since I reset my network I just un-plugged the network HD and plugged it back in, so the Oppo is now seeing it again!
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post #12963 of 13762 Old 06-10-2015, 03:35 PM
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Go with the 103D. Both versions of what you are talking about is converting Digital to Analog twice. Not the best situation.
How is any system going to do it without doing it twice? The only way to not do it twice, and have room correction software is to keep it digital all the way to the room correction hardware. The DDRC-88A only takes analog in, and then converts it to digital and back again.

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post #12964 of 13762 Old 06-10-2015, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
How is any system going to do it without doing it twice? The only way to not do it twice, and have room correction software is to keep it digital all the way to the room correction hardware. The DDRC-88A only takes analog in, and then converts it to digital and back again.
There's your answer.

What you actually have is an ADAC (if that even exists!). That will introduce artifacts into the audio stream, degrading it. Weird piece of equipment. But, it is what you got and that is the way you will have to use it.

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post #12965 of 13762 Old 06-10-2015, 04:10 PM
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There's your answer.

What you actually have is an ADAC (if that even exists!). That will introduce artifacts into the audio stream, degrading it. Weird piece of equipment. But, it is what you got and that is the way you will have to use it.
so anyone who uses the DDRC-88a is going to have the same problem, correct?

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post #12966 of 13762 Old 06-10-2015, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
so anyone who uses the DDRC-88a is going to have the same problem, correct?
To get the most accurate fidelity (which we all strive for, more or less), the signal path should be simple and the conversions/manipulations of the signal should be at a minimal. You want to go from digital to analog as quickly as possible. The more ADC and DAC and room corrections/bass management to the signal, the more artifacts can be introduced into the original signal and there goes your fidelity.

If I'm off-base here, please someone jump in.
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post #12967 of 13762 Old 06-10-2015, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mongo171 View Post
To get the most accurate fidelity (which we all strive for, more or less), the signal path should be simple and the conversions/manipulations of the signal should be at a minimal. You want to go from digital to analog as quickly as possible. The more ADC and DAC and room corrections/bass management to the signal, the more artifacts can be introduced into the original signal and there goes your fidelity.

If I'm off-base here, please someone jump in.
Ok... Here are some examples:

1: If I have the Oppo 105D, and I hooked it up to a AVR via balanced (to get the best sound) to a AVR (with balanced inputs), and it ran through Audyssey...wouldn't it be going from digital to analog, to digital, and back to analog again?

2: If I use the Oppo 105D, and hook it up with HDMI to the AVR, it then is digital until it gets to the amps, but you are losing the advantages of the Oppo DACs.

I am lost as to how you are going to get the best out of the Oppo using the analog outputs unless you are using it strictly for a stereo source, and it is going to either a stereo analog preamp, or straight to the power amps.

I am not arguing, so please don't take it that way... I am just trying to figure out how this can work.

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post #12968 of 13762 Old 06-10-2015, 05:29 PM
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Not quite. If you are talking multichannel, you wouldn't necessarily need room correction if you had a very good room. You could simplify things even further if all your speakers were equidistant from your listening position and were properly matched in timbre and other characteristics.

For stereo (for me this means most music listening), I don't necessarily need room correction at all if my room is decent and I have something approaching full-range speakers. Many users of the 105x use it in exactly this way. They would use HDMI and room correction for movies where I feel that it is less critical to keep the signal pure. You could even throw in subwoofers if your subs had facilities for equalization built in. That way you would only be applying any sort of equalization at the subs and not with your other speakers.

I know these scenarios don't work for a lot of people but they do work for many.
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post #12969 of 13762 Old 06-10-2015, 05:51 PM
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I just called up Oppo, and they are taking the 105D back, and sending me a 103. Hopefully this will work out better... It is saving me $500.
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post #12970 of 13762 Old 06-10-2015, 06:28 PM
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^ I think you made the right decision, considering you probably weren't going to get the benefits of the 105's DACs by keeping the audio path pure analog to your amplification.
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post #12971 of 13762 Old 06-11-2015, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
I just called up Oppo, and they are taking the 105D back, and sending me a 103. Hopefully this will work out better... It is saving me $500.



Hi,


A bit late now but may still be of some interest anyway!!!



I have an OPPO 105 hooked up at HDMI level for ALL M/C audio and at analog XLR level for ALL 2 channel.

Unless you plan on using the OPPO 105D as a top notch CD player you are definitely better off with an OPPO 103D

IME the people who hear improvements using the OPPO 105's analog M/C outs have cheaper lower quality AVR's which may have limited Bass Management options, maybe NO Room EQ and might also be older with an inferior DAC arrangement.

Or they simply want to reduce their box count and length of signal path by ditching their AVR and going directly into power amps.

Naturally the OPPO WILL sound better for them.

However as your Denon does NOT fall into that category I would advise an OPPO 103 hooked up at HDMI level.

HDMI 1 DIRECT to Display (as you now have inbuilt Darbee)
HDMI 2 DIRECT to Denon AVR

As your Denon has more extensive bass management features and offers the very well regarded Audyssey XT32 Room EQ I am quite confident that you will PREFER the M/C SQ doing it this way.
You just don't need that outboard DDRC-88A.

I also think that for M/C ONLY using your Denon with an OPPO 103 will STILL give you a better result than using an OPPO 105 analog direct into power amps.

I guess, in a nutshell then, I am saying.......If you have an good AVR or Pre/Pro and only care about M/C performance then an OPPO 103 at HDMI level is the IDEAL way to go.

The $$ saving is a pretty good bonus too!!!


Congrats
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post #12972 of 13762 Old 06-11-2015, 06:35 AM
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I just called up Oppo, and they are taking the 105D back, and sending me a 103. Hopefully this will work out better... It is saving me $500.
This will work better for you. Now you have some extra money for music, movies, etc. With HDMI Outs, the 103 and 105 are the same quality. You're not losing anything.
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post #12973 of 13762 Old 06-11-2015, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by linger63 View Post
Hi,


A bit late now but may still be of some interest anyway!!!



I have an OPPO 105 hooked up at HDMI level for ALL M/C audio and at analog XLR level for ALL 2 channel.

Unless you plan on using the OPPO 105D as a top notch CD player you are definitely better off with an OPPO 103D

IME the people who hear improvements using the OPPO 105's analog M/C outs have cheaper lower quality AVR's which may have limited Bass Management options, maybe NO Room EQ and might also be older with an inferior DAC arrangement.

Or they simply want to reduce their box count and length of signal path by ditching their AVR and going directly into power amps.

Naturally the OPPO WILL sound better for them.

However as your Denon does NOT fall into that category I would advise an OPPO 103 hooked up at HDMI level.

HDMI 1 DIRECT to Display (as you now have inbuilt Darbee)
HDMI 2 DIRECT to Denon AVR

As your Denon has more extensive bass management features and offers the very well regarded Audyssey XT32 Room EQ I am quite confident that you will PREFER the M/C SQ doing it this way.
You just don't need that outboard DDRC-88A.

I also think that for M/C ONLY using your Denon with an OPPO 103 will STILL give you a better result than using an OPPO 105 analog direct into power amps.

I guess, in a nutshell then, I am saying.......If you have an good AVR or Pre/Pro and only care about M/C performance then an OPPO 103 at HDMI level is the IDEAL way to go.

The $$ saving is a pretty good bonus too!!!


Congrats
Thanks for the info supporting going to the 103.
The thing is the Denon is going bye bye. I have a Krell with no HDMI for a preamp on the way... I went this way so i could go with the DDRC 88A as it is supposed to be much better for room tuning. I will stick with the 103, and use my Darbee with the setup.

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post #12974 of 13762 Old 06-11-2015, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
Thanks for the info supporting going to the 103.
The thing is the Denon is going bye bye. I have a Krell with no HDMI for a preamp on the way... I went this way so i could go with the DDRC 88A as it is supposed to be much better for room tuning. I will stick with the 103, and use my Darbee with the setup.
It seems to me that going with the Emotiva XMC-1 instead of the combination of an ancient non-HDMI pre-pro and the DDRC 88A would make a lot more sense. HDMI from the Oppo to the XMC-1, get the optional Dirac feature for the XMC-1, and avoid the extra digtal to analog and analog to digital conversions.
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post #12975 of 13762 Old 06-11-2015, 11:46 AM
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It seems to me that going with the Emotiva XMC-1 instead of the combination of an ancient non-HDMI pre-pro and the DDRC 88A would make a lot more sense. HDMI from the Oppo to the XMC-1, get the optional Dirac feature for the XMC-1, and avoid the extra digtal to analog and analog to digital conversions.
The Dirac is not a full version as i recall on the Emotiva, nor do i want to spend over $2k for it.

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post #12976 of 13762 Old 06-11-2015, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
It seems to me that going with the Emotiva XMC-1 instead of the combination of an ancient non-HDMI pre-pro and the DDRC 88A would make a lot more sense. HDMI from the Oppo to the XMC-1, get the optional Dirac feature for the XMC-1, and avoid the extra digtal to analog and analog to digital conversions.
I came this close >< to getting the XMC-1 when I was upgrading my setup. They kept pushing back the release date. Saved me a chunk of change.

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post #12977 of 13762 Old 06-11-2015, 09:30 PM
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I also think that for M/C ONLY using your Denon with an OPPO 103 will STILL give you a better result than using an OPPO 105 analog direct into power amps.
Can you elaborate on this? I thought that using the multichannel analog RCA outputs on the 105 would be better quality than using HDMI for M/C.
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post #12978 of 13762 Old 06-11-2015, 10:50 PM
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Can you elaborate on this? I thought that using the multichannel analog RCA outputs on the 105 would be better quality than using HDMI for M/C.


Hi,


Sure no problem.

The sonic "winner" of the 2 hook up scenarios you mention above is usually decided simply by the quality of the AVR or Pre/Pro being used.

Some of the latest higher quality units sport the EXACT same DAC as the OPPO 105(D) does.
And then there is the superior bass management abilities and some great Room EQ tools like Audyssey XT32 only available at HDMI level.

BUT........If you have a pre HDMI unit with rudimentary features and cheaper lower quality DAC's on board then the OPPO at analog level would clearly be the better way to go.

AND.....Even if you don't have an AVR or Pre/Pro AT ALL then at least the OPPO lets you have some important features to enable it's use AS an AVR!!!

Try this test if your equipment is able..........

Hook up your OPPO with HDMI and also with analog to your M/C ins and switch between them on your AVR.

Your ears will soon tell you what's going on.

So many options........So many features........The OPPO 105(D) really does cover all the bases VERY WELL!!!



Hope this helps
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post #12979 of 13762 Old 06-12-2015, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
Ok... Here are some examples:

1: If I have the Oppo 105D, and I hooked it up to a AVR via balanced (to get the best sound) to a AVR (with balanced inputs), and it ran through Audyssey...wouldn't it be going from digital to analog, to digital, and back to analog again?

2: If I use the Oppo 105D, and hook it up with HDMI to the AVR, it then is digital until it gets to the amps, but you are losing the advantages of the Oppo DACs.

I am lost as to how you are going to get the best out of the Oppo using the analog outputs unless you are using it strictly for a stereo source, and it is going to either a stereo analog preamp, or straight to the power amps.

I am not arguing, so please don't take it that way... I am just trying to figure out how this can work.
I added the MiniDsp 88A to the 105 and it did not degrade the sound, will not go back to Audessey the 88A sound so much better. That's all I have to say, adding the 88A to my system improved the overall sound.
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post #12980 of 13762 Old 06-12-2015, 12:04 PM
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I added the MiniDsp 88A to the 105 and it did not degrade the sound, will not go back to Audessey the 88A sound so much better. That's all I have to say, adding the 88A to my system improved the overall sound.

Hi,


Judging by the price point your Dirac 88A is a direct competitor for the Audyssey Pro Kit.



Both of these similarly priced ($1K) Room EQ solutions will offer even higher levels of
filtering than Audyssey XT32 and, most likely MCACC, YPAO, DCAC and such, which should ( and in your case did!!) result in higher SQ.



I think what the end user needs to determine is whether that money is better invested elsewhere in their system.


For example........


1. A better AVR with more power and/or more features and a better/best version of the in built Room EQ .......eg.....Audyssey XT vs XT32.


2. A bigger Sub or improved speaker/s


3. A higher end source.....eg.......Oppo 103 vs Oppo 105


4. An extra $1K towards a new Display.




Otherwise, as appears to be your case, I don't see any problem with it at all.

And that's all I have to say!!!
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post #12981 of 13762 Old 06-12-2015, 02:27 PM
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All this talk about the degradation of the A/D/A process is interesting and very true ...in theory. But in practice, with high quality ADCs and DACs in high end pre-pros, this 'degradation' is completely absent, at least as far as the ears can detect. Yes, when measured on the AP test system, lower SNRs and Distortion numbers would be measured on an analog signal going through the A/D/A cycle than without. But in practice, its practically impossible to detect, even with critical listening making the A/D/A cycle transparent to the ear.... when using quality gear.


I have an Anthem D2v pre-pro and can't detect a difference between the pure analog signal and one going through the A/D/A cycle when ARC is disengaged.
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post #12982 of 13762 Old 06-13-2015, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post
Not quite. If you are talking multichannel, you wouldn't necessarily need room correction if you had a very good room. You could simplify things even further if all your speakers were equidistant from your listening position and were properly matched in timbre and other characteristics.

For stereo (for me this means most music listening), I don't necessarily need room correction at all if my room is decent and I have something approaching full-range speakers. Many users of the 105x use it in exactly this way. They would use HDMI and room correction for movies where I feel that it is less critical to keep the signal pure. You could even throw in subwoofers if your subs had facilities for equalization built in. That way you would only be applying any sort of equalization at the subs and not with your other speakers.

I know these scenarios don't work for a lot of people but they do work for many.
JazzGuyy,

I use my 105D just as you mentioned above. HDMI from the 105D to an XMC-1 with Dirac for movies and multichannel music. Balanced output of the 105D to the XMC-1's balanced input using the Reference Stereo mode for stereo music. Works excellent for me .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisr63 View Post
The Dirac is not a full version as i recall on the Emotiva, nor do i want to spend over $2k for it.
The XMC-1 comes with Dirac LE but for an additional $99 you can get the full version of Dirac from Emotiva. The DDRC-88A is $999.00 and that's with out a processor that you will most likely want to have. So in the end the cost of the XMC-1 isn't that much.

Bill

My SACD collection and HRAudio.net Library, getting larger as my wallet gets smaller ;-).

Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Oppo BDP-103/105D, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk 1801-TLs, Salk 1801b center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #12983 of 13762 Old 06-13-2015, 05:19 PM
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$1,500

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post #12984 of 13762 Old 06-13-2015, 06:18 PM
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$1,500
$1500 for what?

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My SACD collection and HRAudio.net Library, getting larger as my wallet gets smaller ;-).

Emotiva XMC-1, Wyred 4 Sound SX-500s, ST-500, ST-250, Oppo BDP-103/105D, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk 1801-TLs, Salk 1801b center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #12985 of 13762 Old 06-13-2015, 09:16 PM
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Can I connect a PC to Oppo 105 with HDMI and RCA coax input at the same time? I'd like to get the video out of PC with HDMI to Oppo and to get audio using Oppo digital RCA input. Is it possible to assign HDMI/Digital RCA from the same source (PC)?
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post #12986 of 13762 Old 06-13-2015, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by sharok View Post
Can I connect a PC to Oppo 105 with HDMI and RCA coax input at the same time? I'd like to get the video out of PC with HDMI to Oppo and to get audio using Oppo digital RCA input. Is that possible?
Nope. No mixing of inputs possible.
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post #12987 of 13762 Old 06-13-2015, 09:20 PM
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$1500 for what?

Bill
For the XMC-1 sans Dirac Live. ...Just an approximation.

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post #12988 of 13762 Old 06-13-2015, 09:30 PM
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Nope. No mixing of inputs possible.
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Hi Bob,
Can I connect the digital rca to Oppo for audio and connect the hdmi directly to my TV (for video)?


In your opinion does a USB to S/PDIF converter sound better than HDMI as far as 2 channel music is concerned coming from PC to OPPO 105?
Some tell me USB/SPDIF is better than HDMI and others tell me they sound the same since they are both digital.
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post #12989 of 13762 Old 06-14-2015, 05:00 AM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharok View Post
Hi Bob,
Can I connect the digital rca to Oppo for audio and connect the hdmi directly to my TV (for video)?


In your opinion does a USB to S/PDIF converter sound better than HDMI as far as 2 channel music is concerned coming from PC to OPPO 105?
Some tell me USB/SPDIF is better than HDMI and others tell me they sound the same since they are both digital.
that depends on the sample rate and format because they all have different limitations
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post #12990 of 13762 Old 06-14-2015, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by JimSatala77 View Post
that depends on the sample rate and format because they all have different limitations

Everything being equal (DAC, Amp, sample rate, ...) HDMI and S/PDIF can pass two channel CD quality 16bit/44.1 uncompressed (.WAV). Is one better than the other or both are the same (HDMI/SPDIF) as far as two channel CD quality is concerned?
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