Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 438 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13111 of 13122 Old 07-29-2015, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
Dan,

That's what I thought. But I emailed Oppo and they said DSD would automatically convert to PCM.

Email response from Oppo:

Bill,

DSD will be converted to PCM. HDMI 1.3a allowed for DSD over HDMI.

So if you wanted the original DSD audio, then you would need to connect with analog. Otherwise, the player will convert to PCM automatically.

Best Regards,

Customer Service

I want to add that I emailed Oppo at 5:32pm and they responded at 5:38pm. Now that's incredible service !

Bill

Bill,

SIX WHOLE MINUTES!!!!

They must have been short staffed.

FWIW.......I think DSD from the Oppo's HDMI out will ALWAYS convert to PCM if it doesn't detect a DSD capable device at the other end.

Another FWIW.......I have listened to DSD and then switched to PCM in the OPPO's menu.....
Sounded pretty much the same to me.

A bonus of setting the Oppo's DSD output to PCM is ability to retain the DSP and Room EQ features of your AVR or Pre/Pro.

If you really want pure DSD with no PCM conversion step then, as previously mentioned, analog out is your only way for now.

Cheers

Last edited by linger63; 07-29-2015 at 10:59 PM.
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post #13112 of 13122 Old 07-30-2015, 06:26 AM
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^ The player can not process both DSD digital audio to some outputs and LPCM digital audio to other outputs. The SACD Output settings give you a way to control how that works according to what you want to listen to and the equipment you have.

Keep in mind that the Analog outputs can always handle DSD (i.e., digital DSD sent to the DACs, which is then converted to Analog for output). On the 103 and 105, the HDMI 1 output can not handle DSD. (No such restriction in the 103D or 105D.) With both HDMI outputs connected, Split A/V mode will mute audio on the HDMI 1 output automatically, so the lack of DSD support on that output is not an issue.

For HDMI output, a connection is active if it is cabled, not Muted for audio, and the device at the other end is listening. (Some devices listen even when turned "off".) The device at the other end of an active connection may or may not accept HDMI DSD as input. That is discovered during the HDMI handshake.

If you set HDMI Audio OFF, the DSD capabilities of your HDMI devices don't matter as audio output on HDMI is muted. (The HDMI Audio AUTO, LPCM, or BITSTREAM choices are all just treated as HDMI Audio "on" for SACD playback. Instead, the SACD Output setting is the one that controls what actually gets sent out on the HDMI cable during SACD playback.)

Many HDMI devices that DO accept HDMI DSD as input immediately convert that DSD to LPCM as the first step upon input -- so no different than having the OPPO send LPCM in the first place. For devices that have the special DACs which can convert DSD directly to Analog (i.e., without first converting it to LPCM), there will be a setting the user must select to enable that. This is because no audio processing is possible when DSD input is converted directly to Analog. I.e., if you enable DSD-Direct-to-Analog conversion in the HDMI device, then you will lose all audio processing in that device. No Room Correction, no Crossover processing, no Down-mixing, no Speaker Distance adjustment, etc. The AVR will be acting like a simple pre-amp, with just Volume control.

The same thing happens in the OPPO when sending DSD to its DACs for Analog output. If DSD-Direct-to-Analog conversion is engaged, then no audio processing is possible in the OPPO. Indeed, in the 103 (and 103D) you even lose Volume control. Use SACD Output PCM if such audio processing in the OPPO is important to you.

---------------------------------------------------

With those capabilities in mind, the SACD Output settings work as follows (current firmware):

AUTO: Use DSD if *ALL* active outputs support DSD. Otherwise use LPCM for *ALL* outputs.

PCM: Convert DSD to LPCM for all outputs.

DSD: Use DSD for any active output that supports it. Other outputs are MUTED. Again the Analog outputs always support DSD-Direct-to-Analog conversion so they are never Muted when SACD Output DSD is selected.

--------------------------------------------------

You can tell if DSD output is engaged at the moment in two ways:

The Now Playing screen shown on your TV will show DSD instead of LPCM as the track type

The Front Panel display will have SACD illuminated but PCM not illuminated.

Again, you can't have a mix of DSD and PCM at the same time. So if DSD is in use, it is in use for all active outputs. Otherwise PCM is in use for all active outputs.

--Bob
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Last edited by Bob Pariseau; 07-30-2015 at 06:36 AM.
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post #13113 of 13122 Old 07-30-2015, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linger63 View Post

FWIW.......I think DSD from the Oppo's HDMI out will ALWAYS convert to PCM if it doesn't detect a DSD capable device at the other end.

If you really want pure DSD with no PCM conversion step then, as previously mentioned, analog out is your only way for now.

Cheers
You thought wrong. Re-read what I previously wrote, and what Bob wrote after your reply with regards to the SACD Output setting in the 103/105 players. When playing back SACD's or .dsf/.dff audio files, HDMI audio will be muted if SACD Output is set to DSD "and" the downstream device is not capable of handling DSD audio.
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post #13114 of 13122 Old 07-30-2015, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post
You thought wrong. Re-read what I previously wrote, and what Bob wrote after your reply with regards to the SACD Output setting in the 103/105 players. When playing back SACD's or .dsf/.dff audio files, HDMI audio will be muted if SACD Output is set to DSD "and" the downstream device is not capable of handling DSD audio.



Cool, so.........muted......NOT converted to PCM........got ya....thanks

Being DSD capable that situation hasn't occurred for me so I was in error assuming.

Sorry for the misinformation BillMac!!


Cheers

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post #13115 of 13122 Old 07-30-2015, 09:45 AM
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Analog output from Oppo 95

I'm taking balanced stereo output from an Oppo 95 directly to a Proceed Amp 2 to drive KEF LS50s. SW goes to a Velodyne SMS-1 that provides acoustic room correction for an HGS-10. I don't recall how I have SACD output set, but if DSD will there still be SW output?

(The LF of the LS50s is supplemented by the sub. This setup sounds much better than I expected and surprises me by its ability to handle large orchestrations convincingly. It won't put my main setup out of business, but I could be happy with it as my only setup if downsizing were needed -- HDMI from the 95 goes to a Sony 46XBR8.)

db
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post #13116 of 13122 Old 07-30-2015, 09:48 AM
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If using DSD-Direct-to-Analog conversion there will only be Sub output when playing a 5.1 track that's authored with bass in the .1 portion. No Crossover processing will happen for bass present in the other speaker channels.

Also, be aware that the SACD Output settings function differently on your 95. My explanation above was for the 10x players running current firmware.
--Bob

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post #13117 of 13122 Old 07-30-2015, 10:09 AM
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Analog from Oppo 95

So if it's not already set to LPCM. I should do so. I've tried listening without the sub, but I think the LS50s benefit from a well integrated sub.

Bob, I realize this is a 105 thread and I have a 105 in my main setup that I use for HT and music from Blu-ray discs, but it's been a while since I've used the 95 for anything other than watching an occasional movie downstairs. so please forgive the intrusion.

db
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post #13118 of 13122 Old 07-30-2015, 10:10 AM
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^ No problem with the intrusion. Just keep in mind that technical details in questions answered for the 105 may not be completely accurate for the 95.

I should also add that with DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion engaged, no down-mixing happens either. So if you play an SACD 5.1 track that way, you'll only get the LF/RF content on the Dedicated Stereo Analog L/R outputs of your 95. The C, LS, RS, and LFE channels will not be down-mixed into those stereo outputs. Use SACD Output PCM if you want to play an SACD 5.1 track with down-mixing, or select the Stereo track from the SACD disc if it has one -- i.e., use the purpose-built Stereo track on the disc.
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post #13119 of 13122 Old 07-30-2015, 10:24 AM
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LPCM from a 95

Thanks, Bob. It's probably set to LPCM output now, but I'll make certain it is. I'm really impressed by the KEF LS50s, and plan to replace the Amp 2 with a Parasound A21 that has an audio trigger in addition to being twice as powerful. I'm using Parasound JC 1s for LCR in my main setup, and they are awesome with the KEF Reference 107/2s.

db
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post #13120 of 13122 Old Yesterday, 09:38 PM
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Dual analog out from 105 to 2 amps with volume control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post
^ No problem with the intrusion. Just keep in mind that technical details in questions answered for the 105 may not be completely accurate for the 95.

I should also add that with DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion engaged, no down-mixing happens either. So if you play an SACD 5.1 track that way, you'll only get the LF/RF content on the Dedicated Stereo Analog L/R outputs of your 95. The C, LS, RS, and LFE channels will not be down-mixed into those stereo outputs. Use SACD Output PCM if you want to play an SACD 5.1 track with down-mixing, or select the Stereo track from the SACD disc if it has one -- i.e., use the purpose-built Stereo track on the disc.
--Bob

Please humor me with a couple questions:
1. If I am doing the above listening with my 105 to SACD 5.1 on the surround analog outputs to my main surround amp A, can I simultaneously take the dedicated DAC stereo L/R outputs to another (2nd) amp B for a different zone? Is there a special set up for this?
2. Similarly, if I am listening only to a 2 channel CD or SACD can I take the LF/RF surround analogs (or 5.1 mixdown to stereo) output to my surround amp A for stereo while also taking the dedicated DAC stereo L/R outputs to another amp for a different zone?

In other words I am looking for a way to drive two amps with at least stereo output, and, will the common OPPO volume control affect both outputs to both amps? I could balance the gains for the 2 amps independantly at the amps, such that I could drive 2 left speakers and 2 right speakers of different types, and in different rooms.
One last question: I believe I understand even if this works for my 105 it cannot for the 103 as it does not have the separate DAC for stereo only L/R output--yes , or no?
Thanks for all the great help,
Bob C
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post #13121 of 13122 Old Yesterday, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
I used an iScan Duo and then the next model up, but the Oppo 105 does such a good job of video processing, I didn't think it was necessary so I gave it to our gardener along with a 60" TV from my mother's estate that did need it. I use a Sony VPL 50 that projects onto a 100" Stewart UltraMatte 150 screen.

db

I use a 2 yr old Samsung 60" in our small 13x20 theatre room with tiered seating. I prefer to not inject additional processors.
I prefer to allow the Oppo 105 to process my DTV satellite output digital audio/suround signal, and send my HDTV video signal directly from the DTV output to the TV by HDMI. I do not allow anything else to process (screw up) the video on the way to the TV. I use the Oppo 105 processor to output DVD/Blue Ray video directly out on HDMI to another input on the same TV. All my stereo and surround analog processing is performed in the Oppo then wired directly to drive my 7 channel NAD power amp, not wired thru the preamp. All voume is controlled by the Oppo remote. We have a great picture and great sound, with no complaints. I tried several other avenues and this was my choice with excellent pic and sound, using 8 Magnapans. One other input is my laptop HDMI for internet. mail and ethernet to the TV, with music digital audio processed by the Oppo's USB inputs and routed with the same wiring to the power amp. That is the cleanest, simplest way to do it. The OPPO is thus central to my system, not some additional prepro. That same TV has enough inputs for an Apple AirPlay, old VHS and Beta players, plus an old Pioneer 12" laser disk player.
Best wishes
Bob C
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post #13122 of 13122 Old Yesterday, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
This is why people advise you not to use the player (any player) without a preamp. It's dangerous.

Variable: yes.

Before the first connection, I'd use Power on volume = 0 (which is MUTE) and Max = 100. Then slowly bring up the volume to a good level and set Power on Volume to that (or LAST, if you think no villain will be messing with it). Set Maximum to a level which is plenty loud by your standards without being dangerous.

-Bill
I set my power on volume to 40, which is moderate, not loud. Our setting for movies ranges from 55 to 70. I set my max volume to 80, which is as loud as we have used it, and if/when I install a new firmware update, I do not turn on the power amp until I have gone into the OPPO programming and set my preferences, then turn on the power amp to test. Works good for me.
Bob C
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