Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 49 - AVS Forum
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post #1441 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMD View Post

Is there a trick to getting the Oppo seen on the network? I am hardwired and can easily pick up my FLAC server on my network through the Oppo. Having trouble with the push I cannot get JRiver to output to the Oppo. I have also tried a few iPhone apps (Sitecom) that sees the DLNA servers but has no Oppo output option. Sitecom can see every other device in the house including all the TV's, iPad's, iPhone's
Note: I put the Oppo in Network mode
Any help will be appreciated. This would be a great solution for me
Note: The Oppo showed up finally in JRiver (as the Oppo BDP-95??). Nothing with Sitecom yet

I didn't have to do anything for the Oppo player to show up in JRiver software. When it is turned on, it's in the JRiver list of network devices. You just need a good network connection on the Oppo (if the "Network test" feature in the Oppo setup menu works, you should be seeing the Oppo show up in any server software like JRiver, Foobar, or others. In the previous post I made, I mentioned that you have to select the Oppo from the list of devices that appears in the JRiver window... but you can configure the JRiver Media Center software so many different ways with so many different windows, you may simply have not seen/found the right spot in JRiver's system yet. I'll see about posting a screen capture that shows where I am selecting the Oppo player... that may be the 1 thing that gets you over the hump. Once you see my JRiver screen, you may find you have some other on-screen setup that isn't letting you see this spot where you need to select the Oppo. That's all setup on my other computer so give me a little time.

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post #1442 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 04:55 PM
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For those of you interested in Modwright's modifications to the BDP-105...stay tuned for the review from 6 moons

This should be interesting... Srajan is a great reviewer and will definitely put the modded BDP-105 through its audio paces

"Without music life would be a mistake." -Friedrich Nietzsche

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post #1443 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

...You'd connect a computer's USB output to the 105's async USB input and use the 105 as a USB DAC... playing computer files actually sounds better than playing the same disc the files were made from... should be impossible, but it's real, far too many people agree for it to be mass hysteria.

Consummate skeptic I am says "hmmm...". If true though, then ripped files played from a hard drive attached should sound equally as good?. The USB path though does have a different internal path than discs (not sure about drives and NAS) as explained somewhere in this long thread, so maybe that accounts for the difference. I believe I read that USB goes straight to the DACs bypassing the internal audio configuration processing, crossovers, etc.

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post #1444 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 05:40 PM
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I've fired off an email to Oppo support about this but wanted to post here as well to see if anyone else is butting up against this.

I have tried three different DLNA servers on my Ubuntu server now - Logitech Media Server, Plex and miniDLNA.

They all work just fine if I browse for music by tagged things like Artist, Album, Genre, Year, etc.

But with any of them, if I try and browse by Folder I have weird behaviour - usually resulting in needing to reset the 105 and in miniDLNA's case a DLNA server crash.

Anyone else seeing this?

I only have 450 albums in my Music folder, so I don't think that's the issue. The server has plenty of juice, storage space and RAM so that doesn't seem likely to be the issue.

I usually browse by folder with my Squeezeboxen using this server and Logitechmediamanager so it seems likely that it's an Oppo-specific error.
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post #1445 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 05:44 PM
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^^^ (Stevepow)
Playing the physical disc doesn't sound quite as good as getting a ripped file into the Oppo by any means... Ethernet, USB async DAC connection, or USB hard disc. And the Ethernet connection can be just about anything... another computer, a NAS drive, etc. When playing files from a computer, you do need GOOD playback software. For Windows PCs, Foobar is just OK, but JRiver Media Center is better (though Foobar is free and Media Center is $50 last time I looked). JRiver's superiority comes from being able to select the best sounding mode (WASAPI Event Style) and the software will directly access the USB DAC bypassing ALL the computer's internal audio system (and Windows too). In the Mac world, Decibel ($33 last I looked), Pure Music ($200) and Amarra (couple hundred to $700 for full version last I knew) all have what it takes to get the best sound out of a Mac. All those Mac programs have settings to obtain exclusive access to the USB DAC also -- that is the Mac equivalent of bypassing as much of the hardware and operating system as possible so that the music being played (preferrably from MEMORY after loading from your library drive) sounds as good as it possibly can.

So far, I've never been able to make a Windows platform sound as good as a Mac... not a huge difference, but there's something in Windows PCs that holds back sound quality ever so slightly compared to Macs (I have both). I have no idea why not using the drive mechanism makes music sound better, but it does. And assuming the next question is: Does the same thing apply to movie sound and images? No... not at all. I get ZERO difference in images or sound whether playing a physical Blu-ray or a rip (with the same resolution as the original disc for video and sound, of course). Which is not surprising when you understand that video is a series of still images with a lot of time (in digital terms) between frames and audio is interleaved with the video and buffered and sync'd with the video almost as if the audio did not originate on the disc at all. Music, on the other hand, is a real-time event and because of that digital music is ALWAYS and ultimately ANALOG because of that time factor... you can't escape "time" when playing music and even timing errors as small as a few hundred picoseconds can be measured and heard to cause

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post #1446 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by zoomin View Post

But with any of them, if I try and browse by Folder I have weird behaviour - usually resulting in needing to reset the 105 and in miniDLNA's case a DLNA server crash.
Anyone else seeing this?

I've also had trouble with Folder view on the Oppo, but it's fairly worthless anyway... I have around 1.3 TB of albums... about 3500 albums and more than 900 artists. So browsing by album or artist is totally impractical with Oppo's (or any other network enabled device... other disc players, AVRs, surround processors, etc.) network interface. It is FAR more practical to select the Oppo as the destination in your media player software and "push" content from the computer to the Oppo... the computer navigates the music library drive (networked or physically connected to the computer) MUCH faster than the Oppo (or other products') network interface and with MUCH more flexibility (add more tracks on the fly, playlists, etc.). Same would be true for large image or video libraries. So the Folder option might be a nice idea in the Oppo's interface, in real-world use, pushing music, photos, or videos to the Oppo lets you use the faster and more flexible computer software interface. (Except don't bother with Windows Media Player --- IT SUCKS IN SO MANY WAYS and is SLOWWWWWWWWW).

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post #1447 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

^^^ (Stevepow)
JRiver's superiority comes from being able to select the best sounding mode (WASAPI Event Style) and the software will directly access the USB DAC bypassing ALL the computer's internal audio system (and Windows too).

That all sounds like things you can do with foobar.
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post #1448 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

I've also had trouble with Folder view on the Oppo, but it's fairly worthless anyway... I have around 1.3 TB of albums... about 3500 albums and more than 900 artists. So browsing by album or artist is totally impractical with Oppo's (or any other network enabled device... other disc players, AVRs, surround processors, etc.) network interface. It is FAR more practical to select the Oppo as the destination in your media player software and "push" content from the computer to the Oppo... the computer navigates the music library drive (networked or physically connected to the computer) MUCH faster than the Oppo (or other products') network interface and with MUCH more flexibility (add more tracks on the fly, playlists, etc.). Same would be true for large image or video libraries. So the Folder option might be a nice idea in the Oppo's interface, in real-world use, pushing music, photos, or videos to the Oppo lets you use the faster and more flexible computer software interface. (Except don't bother with Windows Media Player --- IT SUCKS IN SO MANY WAYS and is SLOWWWWWWWWW).

Good points, all - I've been using BubbleUpnp on my android phone and it works quite well.

First reply from Oppo was basically "works on windows"

:\
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post #1449 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 06:21 PM
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Ok I minor update.

iOS sitecom controller simply can't see the 105 and I'm guessing that's not going to change. The only iOS foobar remote I could find also can't see the 105. I really don't think it's a computer or networking issue.

I did discover that the uPNP addin to foobar that I'm using actually does include a digital media controller. The upnp server and renderer are set up on the same configuration page but the controller isn't in the config pages at all . Go into the uPNP config page and hit the 'start server button' (if this foobar instance is the server you want to use). There;s no need to hit the 'start renderer' button. Under the 'View' menu [uPNP controller is listed]. Once you sellect that the controller window will pop up. Mine actually did see the 105 (you have to select it from a list) and after that you can play whatever files are in your 'uPNP controller playback que' playlist. According to my AVR, without touching a single setting in foobar (there are a lot), it is receiving full-resolution audio signal (ie 24/192). I'm pulling analog right off the 105 but the AVR still seeing what's going over HDMI.

So I can use the 105 as a renderer. Just not with any other control point app that I have.

If you do use a foobar remote, it just plays the music from your computer speaker (since the remote app can't find the 105).

My windows 'play to' also works on the 105 but I'm not sure if you can do any kind of que or playlist and that method still wont let you play ALAC. (While foobar and most other things will).

So you can find and play music from your computer w/o being connect. not from a phone yet. I'll play with my kindle later and see what apps it has.

Or you can just hook your usb cable between them and use it that way.




ps. under the controller menu option is uPNP browser. The browser will let you brows and uPNP server you have on the network so you can add music from other servers onto your uPNP play list.

All basic stuff but I missed that I already had a control app for the last week or so.
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post #1450 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMD View Post

Thank you
Any trick to getting this to "send to" the Oppo? I can see my JRiver library on my PC and launch that. I can see the JRiver server in the application. However I see no way in the JRemote application to output to the Oppo. Or am I missing something?
I also noticed the outputted quality from JRiver FLAC's to the Oppo was poor (downcoverted). Is there a setting (s) to insure all output frrom JRiver is untouched?

I don't use J river but I'm guessing they all work the same. If you just play a file on J River, it's just going to play like it would if you didn't have the oppo at all. You need to find out where your (or download it?) J River uPNP controller is and use that to play the music. There's probably some configuration or menu selection that mentions 'controller' Or digital media controller or control point, or DMC, etc etc....
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post #1451 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 07:25 PM
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Can anyone tell me what the "Not Supported" icon on the home screen means? It looked like it was trying to tell me that I had an unsupported hard drive attached, however I didn't. Just a Roku and a USB keyboard receiver.

While it was showing I was unable to access any of the top row of items on the home menu.

After a couple of factory resets and power cycles, plus turning off my Ethernet it cleared and now things are back to normal.

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post #1452 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 08:05 PM
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NAVIGATING MENUS ON SACDs & ATTACHED DIGITAL STORAGE

Since we purchased a BDP-95 we have been able to use it’s composite output to navigate menus on SACDs and USB drives using a small Haier TV. However, we can no longer do this with our BDP-105 as we get a screen that says: “The HDMI output is active. Please view video from the HDMI output”. This is not practical since we would have to use our projector each time. Therefore, how do others on the forum navigate menus?

Under “wet but snowless as usual” Seattle skies, Gill & Alex

P.S.: My partner just hooked up Roku and is streaming off of Amazon Instant as I type this. The picture is amazing and the 5.1 sound is WOW!
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post #1453 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 08:08 PM
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Previous Post

Sorry about the size. Experimenting and what I tried didn't work!

Gill & Alex
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post #1454 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

Can anyone tell me what the "Not Supported" icon on the home screen means? It looked like it was trying to tell me that I had an unsupported hard drive attached, however I didn't. Just a Roku and a USB keyboard receiver.
While it was showing I was unable to access any of the top row of items on the home menu.
After a couple of factory resets and power cycles, plus turning off my Ethernet it cleared and now things are back to normal.

You'll sometimes see this message when connecting USB devices. (like a keyboard) I suspect the player is looking for a storage device. I've gotten it from just connecting a USB hub. Once it goes away you shouldn't see it again unless you change what's connected. It wouldn't hurt to write up the specifics, especially the USB device's pedigree, and send to Oppo support.
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post #1455 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PugetsoundHD View Post

NAVIGATING MENUS ON SACDs & ATTACHED DIGITAL STORAGE
Since we purchased a BDP-95 we have been able to use it’s composite output to navigate menus on SACDs and USB drives using a small Haier TV. However, we can no longer do this with our BDP-105 as we get a screen that says: “The HDMI output is active. Please view video from the HDMI output”. This is not practical since we would have to use our projector each time. Therefore, how do others on the forum navigate menus?
Under “wet but snowless as usual” Seattle skies, Gill & Alex
P.S.: My partner just hooked up Roku and is streaming off of Amazon Instant as I type this. The picture is amazing and the 5.1 sound is WOW!

Page 13 of the user manual. This output is called "diagnostic" and is only used when no HDMI is connected. It also only outputs the on-screen setup menus, no video.
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post #1456 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 08:36 PM
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Thanks Pokey and JimShowalter, dead silence would/ will be a very nice change of pace. The better my system got, the worse the noise of my 963 stands out. During silent passages and very low music playback I can always hear the constant ticking and it drives me nuts. I still have a few concerns and i'd want a $1200 dollar player to be free of warts, but that is one wart by which I could not abide at this price point. Really good to know that this machine is (mechanically) silent in playback.

I'm getting there....!!!
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post #1457 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

^^^ (Stevepow)
Playing the physical disc doesn't sound quite as good as getting a ripped file into the Oppo by any means... Ethernet, USB async DAC connection, or USB hard disc. And the Ethernet connection can be just about anything... another computer, a NAS drive, etc. When playing files from a computer, you do need GOOD playback software. For Windows PCs, Foobar is just OK, but JRiver Media Center is better (though Foobar is free and Media Center is $50 last time I looked). JRiver's superiority comes from being able to select the best sounding mode (WASAPI Event Style) and the software will directly access the USB DAC bypassing ALL the computer's internal audio system (and Windows too)...

I am with Doug on this. I have wandered the Upnp/DLNA path for quite some time and come to the very same conclusion:
Direct Computer to USB DAC or Ethernet/DLNA sounds slightly better than shiny disc playback.
I also use J-River Media Center in Wasapi Event style connected though the USB DAC and it works perfectly. I command it through their android "Gizmo" app and does not regret or see a need for anything else. As Doug also mention in a later post, navigating through the Oppo folder view (as with all network connected AVR) is not convenient when you start to have a fairly large library.
Beside, the DLNA connection does not allow for gapless playback, which is for me a basic lack of audio renderer capacity, then the network solution comes second.

Kami
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post #1458 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PugetsoundHD View Post

NAVIGATING MENUS ON SACDs & ATTACHED DIGITAL STORAGE
Since we purchased a BDP-95 we have been able to use it’s composite output to navigate menus on SACDs and USB drives using a small Haier TV. However, we can no longer do this with our BDP-105 as we get a screen that says: “The HDMI output is active. Please view video from the HDMI output”. This is not practical since we would have to use our projector each time. Therefore, how do others on the forum navigate menus?
Under “wet but snowless as usual” Seattle skies, Gill & Alex
P.S.: My partner just hooked up Roku and is streaming off of Amazon Instant as I type this. The picture is amazing and the 5.1 sound is WOW!

Page 13 of the user manual. This output is called "diagnostic" and is only used when no HDMI is connected. It also only outputs the on-screen setup menus, no video.

Thanks, rdgrimes. We did know that the output was diagnostic and have tried working around it so we didn't have to have an HDMI certified TV to use the menu. However, in all the experimenting we have done didn't try hooking it up without the HDMI cable going to the Integra. Did just try that and we can play music through the analog outputs and get info on the Haier TV monitor. Don't really like to connect and disconnect HDMI connections as they are fragile at best. Could work in some circumstances but don't see how to use some music discs and USB drives with the HDMI connected.

However, thanks for taking the time to help. Gill & Alex
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post #1459 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 11:39 PM
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You STILL need to account for the difference between XLR and RCA if you try to mix them.
XLR is twice the voltage of RCA simply due to how it works. The whole idea of XLR has NOTHING to do with fancier audio entering the cable, but rather a cunning plan to improve rejection of external interference that might penetrate through the shielding of the cable along its length -- which of course is why XLR is used for long cable runs in studios and such. XLR has a definite "coolness" factor, but really, for most folks there's no point.
--Bob

All I can say is that it works better for me in my system as I switched from RCA to XLR using both Signal and Blue Jeans cables since all of my equipment is designed to be run with it's balanced connections. The slight hum I had before disappeared. I am running 28 feet of cable from components to amplifiers.

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post #1460 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

^^^ (Stevepow)
Playing the physical disc doesn't sound quite as good as getting a ripped file into the Oppo by any means... Ethernet, USB async DAC connection, or USB hard disc. And the Ethernet connection can be just about anything... another computer, a NAS drive, etc. When playing files from a computer, you do need GOOD playback software. For Windows PCs, Foobar is just OK, but JRiver Media Center is better (though Foobar is free and Media Center is $50 last time I looked). JRiver's superiority comes from being able to select the best sounding mode (WASAPI Event Style) and the software will directly access the USB DAC bypassing ALL the computer's internal audio system (and Windows too). In the Mac world, Decibel ($33 last I looked), Pure Music ($200) and Amarra (couple hundred to $700 for full version last I knew) all have what it takes to get the best sound out of a Mac. All those Mac programs have settings to obtain exclusive access to the USB DAC also -- that is the Mac equivalent of bypassing as much of the hardware and operating system as possible so that the music being played (preferrably from MEMORY after loading from your library drive) sounds as good as it possibly can.
So far, I've never been able to make a Windows platform sound as good as a Mac... not a huge difference, but there's something in Windows PCs that holds back sound quality ever so slightly compared to Macs (I have both). I have no idea why not using the drive mechanism makes music sound better, but it does. And assuming the next question is: Does the same thing apply to movie sound and images? No... not at all. I get ZERO difference in images or sound whether playing a physical Blu-ray or a rip (with the same resolution as the original disc for video and sound, of course). Which is not surprising when you understand that video is a series of still images with a lot of time (in digital terms) between frames and audio is interleaved with the video and buffered and sync'd with the video almost as if the audio did not originate on the disc at all. Music, on the other hand, is a real-time event and because of that digital music is ALWAYS and ultimately ANALOG because of that time factor... you can't escape "time" when playing music and even timing errors as small as a few hundred picoseconds can be measured and heard to cause

There have been many tests done to disprove all of that. It is very easy to do in fact with the right equipment. I have run a recording studio for 12 years and have tested every sort of recording and playback hardware / software and unless something is badly broken, a Mac, a PC, a $100K+ Sony Digital Console, a full blown ProTools rig, or a modest $100 consumer audio program will all produce bit identical audio given the same source material. Many very good audio engineers including Paul Frindle of Sony Professional have participated in these tests - you can read about it here: http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/forumdisplay.php?15-Awesome-DAW-SUM-Comparison . We ran these tests several years ago and there's no reason to think the technology has degraded since then. I'm skeptical of the CD audio issue as well, although it might be a little harder to test - but not that hard; you need a CD player with a digital out and that can be clocked to an external word clock for playback and digital analysis - I have one in my studio. I've probably run the test before and forgotten it long ago.

The very point of the DAW Sum tests above that Lynn Fuston coordinated was to put to bed these myths among professional audio engineers where it is critical to know what portion of the audio chain actually affects the sound and what portion of it does not.

With Mac or PC - using the same audio hardware, they will produce bit identical digital audio to feed whatever DAC you choose to use.

If there is any difference in sound between the Oppo CD playback and USB playback, there has to be some different processing enabled (crossovers, trim, etc.) or different analog components in the audio path. If both the CD playback and USB playback are output internally unprocessed to digital (and I don't think the oppo will let you send USB in to digital out), I'm 99% sure they will be bit identical.


Steve

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post #1461 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PugetsoundHD View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PugetsoundHD View Post
NAVIGATING MENUS ON SACDs & ATTACHED DIGITAL STORAGE
Since we purchased a BDP-95 we have been able to use it’s composite output to navigate menus on SACDs and USB drives using a small Haier TV. However, we can no longer do this with our BDP-105 as we get a screen that says: “The HDMI output is active. Please view video from the HDMI output”. This is not practical since we would have to use our projector each time. Therefore, how do others on the forum navigate menus?
Under “wet but snowless as usual” Seattle skies, Gill & Alex
P.S.: My partner just hooked up Roku and is streaming off of Amazon Instant as I type this. The picture is amazing and the 5.1 sound is WOW!
Page 13 of the user manual. This output is called "diagnostic" and is only used when no HDMI is connected. It also only outputs the on-screen setup menus, no video.
Thanks, rdgrimes. We did know that the output was diagnostic and have tried working around it so we didn't have to have an HDMI certified TV to use the menu. However, in all the experimenting we have done didn't try hooking it up without the HDMI cable going to the Integra. Did just try that and we can play music through the analog outputs and get info on the Haier TV monitor. Don't really like to connect and disconnect HDMI connections as they are fragile at best. Could work in some circumstances but don't see how to use some music discs and USB drives with the HDMI connected.
However, thanks for taking the time to help. Gill & Alex

Google HDFury - they make a box that can take the HDMI output and convert it to work with non-HDMI video monitors. Something like that might help. You could possibly use HDMI 1 for Video and HDMI 2 for Audio in the Split HDMI Oppo configuration.

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post #1462 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 11:54 PM
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^ Yes, but that's a band aid. It hasn't fixed the REAL problem which is how the interference is getting into your system in the first place -- which means the interference current is still lurking, waiting to cause other problems which may be more subtle than subwoofer hum.
--Bob

True, but sometimes a person can't afford to rewire the entire listening room to connect everything to a single circuit and ground, run all the lines in conduit, and condition the power.

We used to have a hum. XLR helped. To truly eliminate it cost a small fortune (google for system 420 martin logan to see what I mean).
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post #1463 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 11:57 PM
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As Bob says, XLR is primarily used in live and studio applications with longer cable runs - not to eliminate AC or ground issue HUM, but to eliminate electromagnetic interference conducted into the longer cable runs. Two of three wires make up the audio path and are 180 out of phase, the "hot" pin usually carries the audio, cold carries 180 out of phase audio, and the 3rd is ground. The idea is that any noise introduced will be equal in both hot and cold wires but out of phase such that when they are combined at the destination, the noise is cancelled.
Additionally, the circuitry to do all this is "more stuff" - especially the transformer that converts the balanced signal back to single-ended inside the amplifier. In rare cases with very expensive amplifier designs, the signal may be fully balanced from input to output with no transformers. Many mastering studios will convert their gear to single-ended or use fully balanced gear to achieve a purist's signal uncolored by additional transformers.
For these reasons, I can't see any advantage to using the balanced XLR connectors on my processor or amp. I use 1 foot RCA cables and I think that it likely the best way to go or certainly as good as the XLRs. And the same for the oppo - high quality, short RCA cables work fine.

Our left sub is 47' from the preamp, and running an unbalanced signal that distance is asking for trouble (although for the L full-range signal we had to do that anyway).

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post #1464 of 11339 Old 12-20-2012, 11:59 PM
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Previous Post
Sorry about the size. Experimenting and what I tried didn't work!
Gill & Alex

You can edit your posts to fix them.

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post #1465 of 11339 Old 12-21-2012, 12:03 AM
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All I can say is that it works better for me in my system as I switched from RCA to XLR using both Signal and Blue Jeans cables since all of my equipment is designed to be run with it's balanced connections. The slight hum I had before disappeared. I am running 28 feet of cable from components to amplifiers.

Welcome to the club! XLR rocks. It's a shame so little consumer equipment supports it.

Unbalanced, there is no way to distinguish noise from signal, so noise gets reproduced as if it is signal. Dumb.

Oh, some say, but then you have to use op amps. Correct. But as Douglas Self pointed out in one of his books, the signal went through literally hundreds of op amps during recording/mixing/mastering/playback, and you're worried about the last couple of feet?

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post #1466 of 11339 Old 12-21-2012, 02:40 AM
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^^^ (Stevepow)
Playing the physical disc doesn't sound quite as good as getting a ripped file into the Oppo by any means...

I have not witnessed that phenomenon and would be very sceptical of that claim. Scientifically it would more likely lean towards the opposite as the "ripped" version depends on the software algorithms to create the perfect replica (sound wise) whether it be FLAC, ALAC, WAV, AIFF etc.

From my experience, listening through the headphone output into Sennheiser HD650 headphones, or via the analog outputs into a Denon AVR-4311CI into Revel speakers, with the source being Apple lossless files via HDMI from an Apple TV, I find they sound exactly the same. This is in agreement with this review from Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity.

Cheers.

Tony
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I bought the bluraychip region free pro kit for the BDP-105, but I don't have the installation instructions. Any one else buy the kit? If so do you have a link to the instructions or could you email me them.
No response from the company.

Hi, Fabio from Rome, Italy. It's the same for me. In the past I bought a kit for the 95 and inside the envelope I found the instructions sheet. This time I received only the kit. 4 different email, but no answer. Very singular... It's a new joke or what else?
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post #1468 of 11339 Old 12-21-2012, 10:14 AM
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There have been many tests done to disprove all of that. It is very easy to do in fact with the right equipment. I have run a recording studio for 12 years and have tested every sort of recording and playback hardware / software and unless something is badly broken, a Mac, a PC, a $100K+ Sony Digital Console, a full blown ProTools rig, or a modest $100 consumer audio program will all produce bit identical audio given the same source material. Many very good audio engineers including Paul Frindle of Sony Professional have participated in these tests - you can read about it here: http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/forumdisplay.php?15-Awesome-DAW-SUM-Comparison . We ran these tests several years ago and there's no reason to think the technology has degraded since then. I'm skeptical of the CD audio issue as well, although it might be a little harder to test - but not that hard; you need a CD player with a digital out and that can be clocked to an external word clock for playback and digital analysis - I have one in my studio. I've probably run the test before and forgotten it long ago.
The very point of the DAW Sum tests above that Lynn Fuston coordinated was to put to bed these myths among professional audio engineers where it is critical to know what portion of the audio chain actually affects the sound and what portion of it does not.
With Mac or PC - using the same audio hardware, they will produce bit identical digital audio to feed whatever DAC you choose to use.

If there is any difference in sound between the Oppo CD playback and USB playback, there has to be some different processing enabled (crossovers, trim, etc.) or different analog components in the audio path. If both the CD playback and USB playback are output internally unprocessed to digital (and I don't think the oppo will let you send USB in to digital out), I'm 99% sure they will be bit identical.

Steve

Well out here in the real world, Pro Audio has the reputation of (no offense to you personally) "Your audio recording Professionals... ruining music recordings since the late 1970s"... unless you are Doug Sax or Bernie Grundman or one of the select few other oldtimers, the "music" that has come out of pro audio studios for the last 30 years is going nowhere but downhill. ProTools is a blight on the soul of music. You guys can't even hear THAT so how can we trust you hear anything else? "You" said (back in the 1980s) that there was NOTHING wrong with editing and mastering processes used to make CDs and THAT turned out to be WRONG on every possible level. "Modern" popular music recordings' sound quality should have gotten better and better and better over the decades but it has not... in fact, virtually nothing released these days sounds great unless it has been recorded by one of the specialty labels who have no access to mainstream talent for the most part. The specialty labels churn-out release after release of fabulous sounding music by artists I could care less to listen to. While "popular" music produces some great music with VERY un-great sound. What I want to hear is Coldplay recorded as well as Cat Stevens' albums from the early/mid 1970s or Adele recorded as well as Joni Mitchell's "Blue" album from the early 1970s. Or any modern symphony orchestra recorded as well as RCA Living Stereo, Mercury Living Presence (Cozart/Fine era), or Everest 35mm recordings from the late 1950s and early-mid 1960s. But it's just not happening. Instead we get sound that is flat as a pancake, totally soulless, and just plain not enjoyable to listen to, except in the car or on an iPod with lots of background noise to obliterate any pretense of high-quality sound reproduction. So forgive me if I'm unimpressed by the above "proof". The Pros were wrong about CD mastering being completely free of problems in the 1980s and they are wrong about this also if it represents Pros in general.

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post #1469 of 11339 Old 12-21-2012, 11:07 AM
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Well out here in the real world, Pro Audio has the reputation of (no offense to you personally) "Your audio recording Professionals... ruining music recordings since the late 1970s"...

So forgive me if I'm unimpressed by the above "proof". The Pros were wrong about CD mastering being completely free of problems in the 1980s and they are wrong about this also if it represents Pros in general.

Well in my real world there is no comparison between the quality of well-recorded, properly mastered CD recordings that the LP analog technology can never ever possibly equal. Your subjective opinion is just that... your opinion... and is not backed up by any type of science or the laws of physics. Maybe a read of an article from the Audio Critic about the 10 Biggest Lies in Audio - Lie 3 The Antidigital Lie might be informative, or not.

Cheers.

Tony
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post #1470 of 11339 Old 12-21-2012, 12:20 PM
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Well out here in the real world, Pro Audio has the reputation of (no offense to you personally) "Your audio recording Professionals... ruining music recordings since the late 1970s"...

I think a lot of what you are describing is the result of commercial and marketing considerations imposed on audio engineers by studio executives. The fact is popular music is generally sold in the form of compressed (often lossy) media for use in portable devices capable of limited dynamic range and frequency bandwidth, and has to be tailored for this sort of playback environment to sell in high volume.

Pretty much every engineer I've ever met would love to see his name on a pristine level of product quality, and the fact that smaller labels that aren't driven by the large corporation need to make quarterly numbers to trigger executive bonuses routinely produce this level of quality is a strong indication of what is going on here.
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