Official OPPO BDP-105 Owner's Thread - Page 55 - AVS Forum
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post #1621 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimshowalter View Post

They mark them specially at the factory "For Audiophile", that way the capacitor knows.
But seriously, until someone takes a "burned in" 105 and a brand-new 105, connects them through a lossless switch like the Zektor, and has someone stand behind a curtain flipping between A and B while playing the same source, and identifies the "burned in" component with better than random-chance accuracy, it's all hoopla.
Notably, capacitor manufacturers don't specify a "burn in" period in their datasheets. (Well, okay, some do, but they're the ones perpetuating this myth.)

I think the question as to why they don't begin to sound worse rather than better is the most telling Q. If not, do equipment designers "aim high" or account for the "wind" hoping it will settle in just so, or what? What spec are they shooting for burned in versus fresh? Seems very mystical.

Still, to be on the safe side, I always put my new equipment in the oven set @ 250F for about an hour, with appropriate cool down before hooking it up. biggrin.gif
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post #1622 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 03:27 PM
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Some say coupling caps and even resistors break in, oh well. Part of what professional modders do is change out subpar quality caps for better ones for better sound, some think different brand, quality and materials used in construction of the components sound different, even though the parts do the exact same duty.
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post #1623 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Wayne:

Are you saying you cannot stream audio with both LAN and USB cables connected? Also since you selected the 24-bit option, chances are you are sending 24-bit data. Try changing the setting to 16-bit and see if you can stream audio using the same files as before.

In my case, my pre-pro lets me know the about the nature of the input stream indirectly on its HDMI inputs, whether data is 16b or 24b by telling me the sampling rate at its input, 44.1k or 48k, 96k or 192k. Any number higher than 44.1k implies 24-bit data.

Did you also try streaming using the wireless option?

- David

The USB to the DAC did not work when the Lan cable was connected as well. The Lan cable option was not affected by the USB connection being present. I will have a look at the Marantz Receiver and see if it gives the bit rate. I did stream with the wifi option from the Synology to the IPad that I was using. The DSAudio software lets you select individually what you want to play - when connected it gave me three options - iPad, USB Speakers and Oppo BDP105 (the Synology some how knew what it was connected to)
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post #1624 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 03:35 PM
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I'd like to use a Roku2 XD connected via HDMI to the 105, with a wireless connection. Will this work? I thought about the new Roku Stick, but it sticks out the front and thats a problem for me. And I already have the Roku2.
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post #1625 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevepow View Post

I think the question as to why they don't begin to sound worse rather than better is the most telling Q. If not, do equipment designers "aim high" or account for the "wind" hoping it will settle in just so, or what? What spec are they shooting for burned in versus fresh? Seems very mystical.
Still, to be on the safe side, I always put my new equipment in the oven set @ 250F for about an hour, with appropriate cool down before hooking it up. biggrin.gif

Ask a designer, more to audio than specs. What makes different brand and quality gear sound different? Part of it is the quality of components used, even though the parts measure the same value doesn't mean they sound the same. Construction type and materials used affect the sound quality of a coupling capacitor for example.
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post #1626 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post

Ask a designer, more to audio than specs. What makes different brand and quality gear sound different? Part of it is the quality of components used, even though the parts measure the same value doesn't mean they sound the same. Construction type and materials used affect the sound quality of a coupling capacitor for example.

It might be my age but lately it seems once gear reaches a certain price point I have a hard time telling the sonic differences. Recently that price point has been pretty low as I demoed some sub $50 dollar amps that sounded pretty darn good. To me it either sounds good or not. I think what I notice most is if an amp runs out of steam on music and creates distortion.
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post #1627 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post

Ask a designer, more to audio than specs. What makes different brand and quality gear sound different? Part of it is the quality of components used, even though the parts measure the same value doesn't mean they sound the same. Construction type and materials used affect the sound quality of a coupling capacitor for example.
This thread is for discussion of the BDP-105. Audio theory and general mod discussion belongs elsewhere... please wink.gif.
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post #1628 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tme110 View Post

J river doesn't have to transcode the file. If j river is playing the file then the whole oppo can't play alac is irrelevant since it's not the oppo that's playing it. The oppo is simply playing an already decoded (PCM) audio stream.

That's some hair splitting. My point - that Jriver is transcoding the file - the Oppo does not see the ALAC only the decoded data. I'm reasonably certain that calling the process transcoding is as valid as calling it decoding in this case. Basically the Jriver software is taking something the Oppo doesn't understand and presenting it in a format that it does. Even PCM has to be decoded by the DAC - call it converted if you like, or we can't listen to it.

If I'm totally wrong I apologize for leading anyone down a muddy path...

Chris
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post #1629 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BeerCan View Post

It might be my age but lately it seems once gear reaches a certain price point I have a hard time telling the sonic differences. Recently that price point has been pretty low as I demoed some sub $50 dollar amps that sounded pretty darn good. To me it either sounds good or not. I think what I notice most is if an amp runs out of steam on music and creates distortion.

I went from medium power receivers which I did experience the running out of steam problem to Yamaha MX1 amp and CX1 preamp
which was my first taste of good sound. I used Bryston after that, now I use Odyssey Audio mono blocks. Each change gave me a more enjoyable listening experience.

I wish I could of found an amp for 50 bucks that satisfied me!
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post #1630 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 04:19 PM
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Gents:

 

I have a unique(?) and puzzling problem when i compare the XLR outs to the MCH analog outs in my 105. I have HDMI1, HDMI2, MCH and XLR connected to my Anthem D2v pre-pro and have the XLRs gain level reduced by 6dB in the Anthem setup menu so that both XLR and MCH would have equal and exact volume levels between them.

 

Here's the problem ... i get a drastic shift in imaging when i switch from XLR to MCH. I'm playing an excellently recorded Redbook CD (Jackie Evanko, "O Holy Night") as my test sample. When i listen to the XLRs, her voice and most of the instrumentation is placed dead center between my left/right speakers. When i switch to MCH, her voice and instrumentation shifts away from center and seems to create diffuse image between the two speakers.

 

I thought my wiring was off so i went into to play the test tones in the Oppo menu. Just as i expected, all speakers were placed were they were supposed to be and wired correctly.

 

I switched the MCH left/right cables on the Oppo and the problem still remains. Image from XLR is centered but on the MCH, its diffused as though some other DSP processing is going on(DTS Neo:6 is turned off in the Oppo menu) and my pre-pro isn't processing both analogs except for the ARC, the room EQ program from Anthem.

 

I then compared the XLR to the HDMI input sources on my pre-pro. They sounded identical indeed. The voice image from the HDMI source was dead-center as it was on the XLR so that told me the XLR and HDMI are good. Comparing the HDMI to the MCH and you get the fore-mentioned diffused image shift.

 

Can anyone who has both XLR and MCH connected to the pre-pro/AVR run a similar test using a stereo 16b/24b source? Its a quick test that only takes a few minutes or so. If you have Room EQ, please use it for both analog sources. I am puzzled as to why my unit is behaving like this...

 

Your help is greatly appreciated ...

 

Thanks,

David


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #1631 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real View Post

I agree, the dedicated stereo outs sound very good. However, when I first set up the player I had HDMI Audio set to bitstream. With the prepro off, I then played files from an attached USB drive to my analog preamp via the dedicated stereo outs. The best description I can come up with is huge echo or reverb. And if there were drum beats, it sounded like there were two beats instead of one.
I then turned off HDMI Audio in the setup menu, and then the sound from the stereo outs was great.
Again, the prepro was off, so any signal from the HDMI 2 output could not make it back to my analog preamp.
Any thoughts? I am stumped on this one. Thanks.

I suspect your tv sound was making echoe. I connect my 105 exactly the way you do and have no problem of operating either in ht or stereo.
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post #1632 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by wayneniz View Post

Firstly thank you all for your advice.
I started the installation of my new system in earnest this morning and whilst I have had the bones of the system running for a few weeks already the final connecting up of the 105 and Synology DS213air NAS was the last and as I discovered today not the least in terms of complexity.
The main reason I bought the 105 over the 103 was for the dedicated USB DAC and balanced outputs. I did not do my homework and naively thought that I could just add a USB external drive and connect it directly into the Oppo USB DAC input. I looked at a few options that would give me huge storage and reliability, I ultimately decided to go for the Synology with two WD 3TB NAS hard drives. The deciding factor on the air model was that it has built in wifi which adds to its versatility.
So I downloaded some music in various resolutions including 24 Bit Flac (The brilliant Cara Dillon Live at the Opera House album being one of them). I loaded the Synology software onto my computer and the corresponding Apps onto my IPad. I was then ready to experiment with the USB, Lan and WiFi options of getting the info from the Synology to the 105, I tried what I thought would be the easiest first the USB to USB where I thought the Synology would be seen as a simple external USB drive.
Panic quickly set in when there was zero, zip, nada. I disconnected the USB cable and connected the Lan cable and... success I was able to see and play all my music and movies on the Synology from my IPad. Now for the real test I connected the USB to the DAC USB with the type B connection and changed the input setting on the 105, panic again set in with 105 not responding.
It was then that I started furiously scanning the owners manuals of both the 105 and Synology, discovering two important settings on the Synology one was that there is an option for 24Bit output in the DS Audio Synology Software and that the output is referenced as USB Speaker output on the IPad App. I really thought that this would be it (I had been working on this installation from 8am to 3pm by now), but still nothing.
I resigned myself to the fact that I had misunderstood the interface requirements and would have to look at another solution for high resolution audio (a computer in the lounge not being one of them). In one last desperate attempt I disconnected the Lan cable so only the USB cable connected the 105 and the Synology. I restarted the 105, the Synology and the iPad app and tried again.. with success!!!!
I could play all my music through the 105 USB DAC from the Synology - including the aforementioned 24 Bit Cara Dillon with fantastic results. I do not know what resolution is actually being transmitted but it really sounds good. My system is quite revealing - the 105 is connected with balanced cables to a Marantz AV8003 which is again connected via balanced cables to the matching Marantz MM8003 8 channel amp my main speakers are B&W 805D's and are bi-amped from the Marantz and a pair of Velodyne SPL1200 ultra's look after the low frequencies.
I would however be quite keen to know what resolution is being sent from the Synology to the 105 - any ideas?
If it is sending full 24 bit information the Synology is an awesome partner to the 105 and its USB DAC.

Congrats on getting your system set up the way you want it. As I was reading your trials and tribulations, I wondered why you chose a USB over an Ethernet connection? I use the ethernet connection because it provides greater flexibility and ease of use. For example, the ethenet connection will let you use the multi-channel DACs. Another advantage is you can use DLNA/UPnP control programs for much better access/selection to your music collection. The network connection also lets you take advantage of the 105 audio processing like bass management, trim, and delay. Can't think of any cons as you can always use the 105 SMB interface which would give you very close to the same experience as a direct USB connection.

Regarding 16 vs 24 bit content, you are right, the deck doesn't provide much in the way of feedback - even with a network interface. However, that particular problem is solved with the use of a good DLNA control program:



Just my thoughts and something to consider. Everyone finds there own way and enjoys the system in their own way.

Glad to hear you are enjoying yours,

Styln
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post #1633 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevepow View Post

I think the question as to why they don't begin to sound worse rather than better is the most telling Q. If not, do equipment designers "aim high" or account for the "wind" hoping it will settle in just so, or what? What spec are they shooting for burned in versus fresh? Seems very mystical.
Still, to be on the safe side, I always put my new equipment in the oven set @ 250F for about an hour, with appropriate cool down before hooking it up. biggrin.gif

Okay for you guys that never tried "burning in" a component answer this, why would a component "sound worse"? It makes no sense? If it sounded bad it would sound bad out of the box. Does your car slow down as the miles accumulate? Do you excercise better without a warm up? I do agree that part of the phenom is your ears adjusting to it. I did hear a change in the soundstaging and the sound was smoother after having it on and palying every day for a week. If you have ever had a high end amp or preamp you would not be sniping as much. I have had an amp, Audio Research Classic 120 blow a coupling capacitor and it smelled bad, oh and for the record the amp was still under a year old when it happened.
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post #1634 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Gents:

I have a unique(?) and puzzling problem when i compare the XLR outs to the MCH analog outs in my 105. I have HDMI1, HDMI2, MCH and XLR connected to my Anthem D2v pre-pro and have the XLRs gain level reduced by 6dB in the Anthem setup menu so that both XLR and MCH would have equal and exact volume levels between them.

Here's the problem ... i get a drastic shift in imaging when i switch from XLR to MCH. I'm playing an excellently recorded Redbook CD (Jackie Evanko, "O Holy Night") as my test sample. When i listen to the XLRs, her voice and most of the instrumentation is placed dead center between my left/right speakers. When i switch to MCH, her voice and instrumentation shifts away from center and seems to create diffuse image between the two speakers.

I thought my wiring was off so i went into to play the test tones in the Oppo menu. Just as i expected, all speakers were placed were they were supposed to be and wired correctly.

I switched the MCH left/right cables on the Oppo and the problem still remains. Image from XLR is centered but on the MCH, its diffused as though some other DSP processing is going on(DTS Neo:6 is turned off in the Oppo menu) and my pre-pro isn't processing both analogs except for the ARC, the room EQ program from Anthem.

I then compared the XLR to the HDMI input sources on my pre-pro. They sounded identical indeed. The voice image from the HDMI source was dead-center as it was on the XLR so that told me the XLR and HDMI are good. Comparing the HDMI to the MCH and you get the fore-mentioned diffused image shift.

Can anyone who has both XLR and MCH connected to the pre-pro/AVR run a similar test using a stereo 16b/24b source? Its a quick test that only takes a few minutes or so. If you have Room EQ, please use it for both analog sources. I am puzzled as to why my unit is behaving like this...

Your help is greatly appreciated ...

Thanks,
David


Bad cable/connection maybe in the multi channel input?
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post #1635 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tme110 View Post

Well, there's the answer, the OPPO isn't playing ALAC at all, J River is. That's a huge difference.

It is and it isn't a huge difference. By that I simply mean that with the proper setup, transcoding happens so seamlessly you might not even realize it's happening.wink.gif

I've been relying on the transcoding capabilities of the Asset UPnP server to deliver any and all audio formats to my BDP-83SE for years. It has allowed me to literally care less about the format music is encoded in. Sure, the 105 handles quite a few more formats natively than the 83SE, but I still rely on the server to transcode those it doesn't. Don't see that changing any time soon.

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post #1636 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrebleClef View Post

Yes, I already selected that with the "Music" option, and still only get "Stereo" under the OPPO USB Audio 1.0 Device in Windows 7.
Are there other settings on the OPPO or in WIndows that I am missing?

The USB Audio input is for stereo only and goes straight to the DAC, thus bypassing all audio processing, such as DTS Neo:6.
.
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post #1637 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp1080 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Gents:

I have a unique(?) and puzzling problem when i compare the XLR outs to the MCH analog outs in my 105. I have HDMI1, HDMI2, MCH and XLR connected to my Anthem D2v pre-pro and have the XLRs gain level reduced by 6dB in the Anthem setup menu so that both XLR and MCH would have equal and exact volume levels between them.

Here's the problem ... i get a drastic shift in imaging when i switch from XLR to MCH. I'm playing an excellently recorded Redbook CD (Jackie Evanko, "O Holy Night") as my test sample. When i listen to the XLRs, her voice and most of the instrumentation is placed dead center between my left/right speakers. When i switch to MCH, her voice and instrumentation shifts away from center and seems to create diffuse image between the two speakers.

I thought my wiring was off so i went into to play the test tones in the Oppo menu. Just as i expected, all speakers were placed were they were supposed to be and wired correctly.

I switched the MCH left/right cables on the Oppo and the problem still remains. Image from XLR is centered but on the MCH, its diffused as though some other DSP processing is going on(DTS Neo:6 is turned off in the Oppo menu) and my pre-pro isn't processing both analogs except for the ARC, the room EQ program from Anthem.

I then compared the XLR to the HDMI input sources on my pre-pro. They sounded identical indeed. The voice image from the HDMI source was dead-center as it was on the XLR so that told me the XLR and HDMI are good. Comparing the HDMI to the MCH and you get the fore-mentioned diffused image shift.

Can anyone who has both XLR and MCH connected to the pre-pro/AVR run a similar test using a stereo 16b/24b source? Its a quick test that only takes a few minutes or so. If you have Room EQ, please use it for both analog sources. I am puzzled as to why my unit is behaving like this...

Your help is greatly appreciated ...

Thanks,
David


Bad cable/connection maybe in the multi channel input?

 

As i said before, if i swap the left/right cables of the MCH outputs on the Oppo, the problem still remains. I use Blue Jeans cables and they've been fine when i had the 95 before i swapped it out for the 105 almost two weeks ago.


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #1638 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkphader View Post

Well, it can be a huge difference if you want to serve up the files differently, such as via SMB or using a USB flash or hard drive. If you rip everything to ALAC you'll either have to rely on transcoding or re-encode them, possibly not a trivial task in terms of time and resources.
It's just good to know this stuff up front.
Chris

No argument there, Chris. Always good to consider your options. Just pointing out that if you are Apple oriented, using a DLNA transcoding server for serving files to the Oppo works so well you shouldn't even know it's happening. At a later point, when you dump Apple and go with Pear, you can again rely on transcoding to play your files on the Oppo. It's true you can't go direct (SMB, HFS, or PearFS), but then you can't play flac on your Apple, and maybe your Pear systems either.

Transcoding severs have just made this entire issue moot for me. It's a wonderful thing smile.gif

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post #1639 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

This thread is for discussion of the BDP-105. Audio theory and general mod discussion belongs elsewhere... please wink.gif.

Yes sorry for that. Back on subject I am really enjoying my 105 sounds very nice plus the video is great to, my first blue- ray player.

P.S. I am already thinking of sending my unit out EVS for proper modding, I wanna hear this thing all tricked out!
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post #1640 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 06:45 PM
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If I have a flac file on a thumb drive and I insert into Oppo USB in does that mean I can straight away utilize the dac in the Oppo? Or I need to connect to a computer for high res music playback thanks
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post #1641 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tanwn1 View Post

If I have a flac file on a thumb drive and I insert into Oppo USB in does that mean I can straight away utilize the dac in the Oppo? Or I need to connect to a computer for high res music playback thanks

You can play it straight away w/o a computer. You'll likely need a TV/video monitor hooked up to the 105 to navigate the USB directory/file structure.

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post #1642 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 07:42 PM
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Stylin,
May I ask what program you are using for that info display? Is that a DLNA server program from your NAS? I also use Asset for conversion but have not seen that info that you are displaying
Dave
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post #1643 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp1080 View Post

Okay for you guys that never tried "burning in" a component answer this, why would a component "sound worse"? It makes no sense? If it sounded bad it would sound bad out of the box.

I'm pretty much a burn in skeptic. However I have seen people claim in audiophile forums that they felt that a component sounded better before burn in.
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post #1644 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by davehale View Post

Stylin,
May I ask what program you are using for that info display? Is that a DLNA server program from your NAS? I also use Asset for conversion but have not seen that info that you are displaying
Dave

Sure, Dave. The display is from the DLNA control program. I have pretty much tried them all on Android, and BubbleUPnP works the best for my requirements. The paid version costs a few bucks, but since I use it almost every day, seems quite reasonable.

As a side benefit, it can also be a server and a render! So I have a 32 GB SD card in my phone, and I stream portions of my audio collection at work to my MBP. Works very well.

Overall, I found this program to be best of breed. It's flexible yet easy to use and very reliable. Makes a good companion to Asset UPnP, too.

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post #1645 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 09:57 PM
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I couldn't agree more with most of you r statements. Most modern even some of the remastered titles we might expect to be well mastered are botched..as you referrenced. Adele is a perfect example of great music that totally sounds like ****. The mastering is that bad. Very sad and dissapointing for those who care about quality and have a decerning ear.
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post #1646 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 10:25 PM
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Fantastic information here that was recently posted, but deserves repeating as so many of the recent questions about the 105 are answered here in detail (never mind that the link says 103 - plenty of 105 info there): http://watershade.net/wmcclain/BDP-103-faq

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post #1647 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevepow View Post

Fantastic information here that was recently posted, but deserves repeating as so many of the recent questions about the 105 are answered here in detail (never mind that the link says 103 - plenty of 105 info there): http://watershade.net/wmcclain/BDP-103-faq

+1


How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #1648 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post

Ask a designer, more to audio than specs. What makes different brand and quality gear sound different? Part of it is the quality of components used, even though the parts measure the same value doesn't mean they sound the same. Construction type and materials used affect the sound quality of a coupling capacitor for example.

I have never doubted that better built equipment sounds better. I just don't get the burn in thing. I do believe gear needs to come up to operating temperature but that's not the same thing as burn in as I understand it (and I probably don't understand it). What is bizarre is that having spent so much time on pro-audio forums (studio gear: pre-amps, converters, mics, etc) I never heard of burn-in until I read it hear. I heard plenty of other dubious ideas, but not burn-in. And to be honest, I am only a skeptic because I have never heard a suitable explanation for what is going on with it, and after using countless pieces of really nice audio gear and critical listening, I have never experienced such a thing. But I do know some legendary designers and I'll shoot them an email and see what they say. Maybe I'm in the weeds on this - wouldn't be the first time.

I still say may Oppo 105 sounds like it sounded when I first hooked it up after two weeks of continuous use. Which begs another question: what would be the proper burn-in procedure for the BDP-105 for those who know how to do this correctly? What does Oppo suggest?

Thanks.

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post #1649 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Styln View Post

The USB Audio input is for stereo only and goes straight to the DAC, thus bypassing all audio processing, such as DTS Neo:6.
.
Styln

Well, unfortunately of course, that means no Subwoofer.

Just for clarification, I'm trying to use the USB DAC.

So, can I get multichannel output from this stereo signal, by using my Processor (Emotiva UMC-1) ?

I had temporarily removed the Processor from my rack due to space constraints.
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post #1650 of 11901 Old 12-24-2012, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JRDiAndrea View Post

I couldn't agree more with most of you r statements. Most modern even some of the remastered titles we might expect to be well mastered are botched..as you referrenced. Adele is a perfect example of great music that totally sounds like ****. The mastering is that bad. Very sad and dissapointing for those who care about quality and have a decerning ear.

When you listen to Adele on your DBP-105 and wonder why it sounds bad, it is not necessarily because the engineer had no idea what he/she is doing but more of a problem with the other links in the chain. Audiophiles and audio engineers do not want to massacre the music like this, but they often have to please the client or the label execs. And the general public they cater to are not audiophiles. I do my mixes just like this guy describes and inevitably the client will "love the mix" "but can you make it louder?" And I slap a mastering limiter like an L316 or UAD PM on it and shave 5dB off the dynamic range and voila, they're happy. I usually provide 3 versions, one with full dynamics, one shaved 3dB, and one as loud as they want it - and I encourage them to really consider the more dynamic mixes. At the end of the day, I'm just hired to do a job and I work for the client and I have to deliver what they want as best I can.

Good article describing the very problem regarding Adele's recordings: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep11/articles/it-0911.htm

And another from a great mastering engineer's perspective: http://www.cepro.com/article/qa_bob_ludwig_gateway_mastering_dvd_president/K29

Look at Sterling Sound's (mastering on Adele 21) goals - http://sterling-sound.com/mastering/about/ - "Does the music have more impact to the average listener?" Well, there you go! rolleyes.gif Maybe labels/artists should start selling two versions - full dynamics and "commercial grade".

That said, I have plenty of bad recordings I love to listen to - the music, the vibe, whatever - it transcends the recording. What I find really helps is to let them burn in; in no time, if the music holds up, they start sounding great regardless of the recording quality. smile.gif
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