Denon DBT 3313 Owner's Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 298 Old 12-29-2012, 12:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I've just bought a Denon 3313 AVR and am considering using with matching transport the DBT 3313. That way you can utilise Denonlink HD which is supposed to improve AQ by syncing the clocks and reducing jitter. I'm happy with my current Panna Bdt500 and unless there is going to be a massive jump in sound quality then for me in its not worth the £540, which is the price in my country.

Any real world use you could share, in particular how good is the DVD upscaling?

Or opinions around the subject of Denonlink in general based upon previous iterations.

Cheers.

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post #2 of 298 Old 01-14-2013, 08:19 AM
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All happy with my DBT-3313 connected to the AVR-3313 except for one thing: the build in media player.

Goal it to stream HD audio from a Logitech Media Server reducing jitter to a minimum using HD link.

The concept works. Very well actually. However the build in media player does not seem to work properly.

The issue is as follows: I have a relatively big library having 500+ artists and 2000+ albums. I put the files in a directory tree which allows for quick navigation. So at the top a folder named A-H, I-Q & R-Z....you get the idea.

I've reset the DBT-3313 many times now. Allowing for fresh reloads of the folder structure. Either a given audio file plays. Or the folder remains empty. Or the file shows but when playing a message appears saying "Unsupported audio" and on the next line "Audio format not supported". All with the same file. After a rescan any of the 30.000+ files can end up in any state. While a given file can not be played via the folder structure it CAN be played when going by Artist.
On the AVR-3313 all files are always playable via the media player.

The solution appears to have a limited size library. I scanned A-H only at one point and appeared to have no issue.

Anybody any experience with this player that may be able to help me out.


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post #3 of 298 Old 01-14-2013, 10:48 AM
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@sutton8

What I can I say...

To utilise the AVR-3313 DAC to the max HDLink is the way to go. Hence the DBT-3313.
With my speakers, in my room and my ears there is a clear distinction between playing with or without the HD link.
Only tested this with lossless audio (24/96). 320kb MP3 sound astonishing well over my previous streaming setup (HDX-1000 & AVR-2082 same speakers). I was a bit amazed really.

The upscaling to me wishes nothing else to desire for. Though now I come to think of it this is the AVR-3313's job. I run the DBT's video though it (you can separate it from the audio stream but I do not have the intent).

The AVR's lipsync I switched off. I noticed video going before(!) audio. The weirdest thing. Took me a bit to uncover. I'm calibrating now and will end up between 10 & 20 msec audio delay. The hardly humanly noticible sync issue now is gone.

If you can grab your player and go to a proper audio/video store. I'm pretty sure you'll experience improvement when the AVR's DAC is fed with a jitterless audio stream. But only big time when streaming HD audio. You'll have to decide yourself if it's worth the money.

Your GBP price is slightly better than the EUR deal I got in the Netherlands.

Cheers,

Michael


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post #4 of 298 Old 01-15-2013, 07:46 AM
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It appears that the streaming from LMS issue is more consistent than I originally reported. At present I can not play any audio when going by folder. Via Artist Or Album playing the same file is not an issue. Again the AVR-3313 has no issue at al and plays any file eiher way.

Knowing this I installed ushare. It plays any audio file -this is the same folder tree as above- just fine except the initial start to play a file is like 30 seconds which is unacceptable.

Gave full world access to all the files and directies in the tree.

Anyone any clue? LMS can serve the files in a way the DBT-3313 accepts. But doesn't do so when playing by folder. While the AVR-3313 accepts the same streaming method just fine. Both compressed as well as lossless files just sound much better when streamed via the DBT-3313.


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post #5 of 298 Old 01-17-2013, 07:35 AM
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I'd like to know if the 24hz output works with mkv?
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post #6 of 298 Old 01-17-2013, 08:05 AM
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Experience streaming to the DBT-3313

!! Not an exhausted review of tools. This is merely a log of what I encountered !!

*Logitech Media Server
+Small gaps between audio files
-Won't serve via folder structure

*Plex
-Conflicts with SABNZBD out of the box
-Takes many hours to scan a 30K song lib
+Pro web interface
+When running able to serve IOS

*MediaTomb
- Produced a 4GB log file

*Minidlna
+Full lib scan in 20 mins. 30.000 songs on an ATOM based headless server
+Navigate audio through both ID3 tag structure as well as Folder structure
+Automatically adds new files to the lib. Monitors the folder structure.

So for me the winner is minidlna. Streams 6ch audio like a dream.

I have not tested any video streaming.



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post #7 of 298 Old 01-17-2013, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for sharing mindcrime. I had heard that there were problems browsing directories. Perhaps they will solve via firmware update. Some comment on the UK AV site suggested that there was no difference in sound utilising Dlink. Different opinions I guess. Im happy with my AVR 3313 but have cooled slightly on the transport even though the price is still dropping.

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post #8 of 298 Old 01-17-2013, 02:56 PM
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Another thing anyone interested in the AVR-3313 & DBT-3313 and who's considering streaming is the following: HD audio played via the AVR-3313 sound not close to as good as via the DBT-3313 (while the same DAC is used right)....in addition it will downsample the HD multitrack rips I use to test with into two channel audio. I can't make it play 6ch audio in any case. Anyone who can make the AVR-3313 play say 5.1 Sacd rips while not downsampling?


Meanwhile stressed minidlna a bit by moving about folders within the existing tree.it was picked up automatically. On some NAS' I read this may be problomatic. On the Ubuntu 10.04 Atom server I have running there is no issue. I was streaming audio in the process.

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post #9 of 298 Old 01-18-2013, 02:33 PM
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post #10 of 298 Old 01-18-2013, 02:45 PM
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With a upnp client app like Kinsky on an iDevice I can control my AVR-3313 build in streamer. So you just open op your iPad, browse to a song and hit play. The AVR will come to life and start streaming. Beautiful.

However I have not found an app that would recongnise the DBT-3313. So for streaming from this device I must have my TV set on.

Is this a bad or limited implementation of the dnla streamer build into the DBT? Anyone found an app able to control the DBT streamer as you can the AVR?

Perhaps I'm naive...but I find the software implementation rather bad for Denon's standards.

I have had to work around a series of issues now. Denon guys...it's time for a firmware upgrade. Do somehing.

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Edit - typo ... Kinski should be Kinsky
Edit2 - I think the right termonology is that the DBT-3313 does not appear to present itself as a so called Media Renderer. Madness. Anyone?
Edit3 - opened ticket 130118-000410 @ Denon and will put the response to the Media Renderer question here.
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post #11 of 298 Old 01-19-2013, 06:25 AM
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Found the answer to the media rendering question myself through www.dlna.org

The AVR-3313 has device class DMR Digital Media Renderer
The DBT-3313 has device class DMP Digital Media Player

In fact the AVR must have DMP capabilities in order to navigate through media.

DMPs are not to other devices on the network the explanation on the website says.

I'll await Denon 's answer perhaps there are other ways to control it remotely.


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post #12 of 298 Old 01-31-2013, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sutton8 View Post

I've just bought a Denon 3313 AVR and am considering using with matching transport the DBT 3313. That way you can utilise Denonlink HD which is supposed to improve AQ by syncing the clocks and reducing jitter. I'm happy with my current Panna Bdt500 and unless there is going to be a massive jump in sound quality then for me in its not worth the £540, which is the price in my country.

Any real world use you could share, in particular how good is the DVD upscaling?

Or opinions around the subject of Denonlink in general based upon previous iterations.

Cheers.

Glad to see a thread finally appear for discussion about the DBT-3313 and Denon Link HD.
I have used the old Denon Link 3/4 with a DBP-A100 (anniversary version of the DBP-4010) and both AVR-4310 and AVR-4311. In my opinion it has been worth it, especially for redbook CD, SACD, DVD-A and LPCM from Blu-ray. Stumbled upon this review of the AVR-3313/DBT-3313 tonight, here's a link, the reviewer has positive things to say about DL HD.
http://www.novedadesaudioyvideo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/HomeCinema_R.pdf
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post #13 of 298 Old 02-04-2013, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes I've still got that magazine on my coffee table, well on the floor somewhere really. It alerted me to the potential of matching the transport to the amp and utilising dlink. Thing is I'm delighted with my panasonic 500 player and I've read some comments in the UK saying that syncing the clocks gives no massive improvement because jitter is not such an issue for HD audio using decent equipment. So I'm yet to be convinced though the 3313s did sound sensational together in the demonstration room at my local audio dealer. But you'd expect that and perhaps my panasonic would have sounded similarly sensational in that room with the avr3313.

It's now £529 and that's a lot of money if you are happy enough with your current bd player. I certainly don't believe it is going to meaningfully improve a bluray picture and how much better can it be as a scaler for dvd? So it lives or dies by the audio quality and you'll find many who say bitstream is bitstream regardless so where is the real value in the price denon is asking? Of course, it's tank built and has fast load etc... but that's not worth the money if that is all you are really getting over something like the panasonic.

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post #14 of 298 Old 02-07-2013, 07:26 AM
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The Denon helpdesk came back today confirming that the DBT-3313 indeed is a DMP device which can stream by itself but cannot be addressed by a DMC.
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post #15 of 298 Old 02-16-2013, 03:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone know what video processing chip they use in the 3313? Someone suggested it is a MediaTek solution.

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post #16 of 298 Old 02-16-2013, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sutton8 View Post

Does anyone know what video processing chip they use in the 3313? Someone suggested it is a MediaTek solution.

I asked Denon technical support about this and after a few days they came back with "it's an inhouse Denon solution." After more research, I found a German web site that reported the video processor as Mediatek. I found that if you do a factory reset, the reset screen is the same screen used by Mediatek. My conclusion: it is a new Mediatek model with features modified/enhanced by Denon. And it does an excellent job too.
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post #17 of 298 Old 02-17-2013, 03:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Many thanks, very useful.

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post #18 of 298 Old 02-17-2013, 02:52 PM
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I spent a lot of money on the top of the line Denon AVP-A1, and then invested another grand on the factory initiated "upgrade'. So Denon, in its never ending search for better sound, comes up with the Denon Link HD.
As most of you know, the AVP-A1 features "Denon Link" (Number 3 or 4, or something) which is connected via a Cat 6 connector to a Denon Link player.

I note the Denon Link HD is connected via the RCA jack which has been around for years and years.

As far as I know, Denon offers no sort of "adapter" so that if I elect to purchase this new (and greatest) Blu-ray player I cannot realize its full potential with my $7,000 (or so) Denon sound processor.

I was never in the business world, so I don't understand Denon's thinking in not catering to those of us with Denon high end products who would be expected to purchase a new Denon player. I always thought "brand loyalty" was a big deal to a manufacturer. At the very least, you would think the A1 factory upgrade would have included Denon Link HD.

I am very happy with my OPPOs and plan to stay with them.

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post #19 of 298 Old 02-17-2013, 04:50 PM
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Indeed it is pretty crappy of Denon to do this with Denon Link 4 vs. Denon Link HD, especially for AVP and AVR-5308 owners who spent a grand for the upgrade. I can't help but notice how active the Oppo player threads are here on AVS, and how inactive the Denon player threads have become. I came very close to buying an Oppo 95 (or 93) last summer, decided to go with the Denon DBP-A100 and have been using DL 4 with an AVR-4310 and 4311. I also considered selling my AVRs and trying to purchase an AVP/POA or 5308 along with having the upgrade done...had to let that go due to finances,etc.
FWIW I believe Denon has new and refurb DBP-A100s on their US website, but they are still overpriced and I can't blame any Denon customer for choosing Oppo instead.
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post #20 of 298 Old 02-17-2013, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey mo View Post

I am very happy with my OPPOs and plan to stay with them.

I am deciding between this Denon (I still have my 3910) and the Oppo 105. Which Oppo do you have, and how does the analog audio compare to the Denon?
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post #21 of 298 Old 02-17-2013, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

I am deciding between this Denon (I still have my 3910) and the Oppo 105. Which Oppo do you have, and how does the analog audio compare to the Denon?

I have the OPPO 95 and the newer 103. I also gave a 103 as a Christmas present to my son. I can hear no difference between the HDMI audio on the 95 and its analog output via the XLR stereo output. I, personally, would think long and hard before I would purchase the 105 over the 103. But then I am a classically music nut and love my SACD collection. A big money difference for some bells and whistles, although I admit to not hearing the 105's analog audio output.

As an aside, I also have the DENON DVD-A1. I find the audio via Denon Link 4 to be the tiniest bit superior to either the 95 or the 103, particularly the SACD multi channel audio. I have the Anthem P5 amp, and Paradigm Signature 8 speakers.

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post #22 of 298 Old 02-17-2013, 05:36 PM
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The DBT-3313 has stereo analog outputs only, no 7.1 Mch analog outputs. I remember reading somewhere that the DACs are Burr Brown/TI I forget the number. The 105 has both stereo and 7.1 analog outputs, using Sabre ESS DACs that from everything I've read are outstanding. Based on analog considerations, the 105 is the clear winner over the 3313 IMHO.
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post #23 of 298 Old 02-18-2013, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey mo View Post

I have the OPPO 95 and the newer 103. I also gave a 103 as a Christmas present to my son. I can hear no difference between the HDMI audio on the 95 and its analog output via the XLR stereo output. I, personally, would think long and hard before I would purchase the 105 over the 103. But then I am a classically music nut and love my SACD collection. A big money difference for some bells and whistles, although I admit to not hearing the 105's analog audio output.

As an aside, I also have the DENON DVD-A1. I find the audio via Denon Link 4 to be the tiniest bit superior to either the 95 or the 103, particularly the SACD multi channel audio. I have the Anthem P5 amp, and Paradigm Signature 8 speakers.

Thanks, Mikey and David, for your responses. The 105 has better audio DACs than the 103, which is important to me for CD/SACD listening since I will be using 2-channel analog audio outs only (to my 2-channel analog pre-amp and amp). Sounds like the 105 is probably the best in that price range for serious music listening, although I'm sure the Denon is no slouch.
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post #24 of 298 Old 02-18-2013, 11:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

Based on analog considerations, the 105 is the clear winner over the 3313 IMHO.

Quite so, but no one would ever buy the Denon for its analogue performance. Its intended as a transport for bitsreaming via HDMI. That's its primary purpose and how it is marketed. The two channel out is just a secondary add on feature and not a primary selling point.

If 2 channel music performance is a huge consideration I wouldn't even bother with a device like an Oppo. I'd get some sort of hifi setup.

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post #25 of 298 Old 02-19-2013, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sutton8 View Post


If 2 channel music performance is a huge consideration I wouldn't even bother with a device like an Oppo. I'd get some sort of hifi setup.
Not sure what do you mean? Just looking for a good universal player for BluRay, streaming, CD and SACD to replace both my Denon 3910 and Panny 110, and reviews suggest the Oppo 105 is tops for BluRays and as good as more expensive CD players for music. Was wondering whether this new Denon would be as good, and it sounds like it's not for what I need it for.
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post #26 of 298 Old 02-22-2013, 11:06 AM
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I have a Denon AVR-3313 / DBT-3313; on the network is a Synology NAS with lots of movies, mostly in mkv-format.

It works pretty fine accessing the movies, but I have one problem: they are all displayed in “full screen”, that is: the full width *and* height of the projector display is filled with the movie, even when there should be black borders on top and bottom. If I access the same NAS from my computer and play it through VLC, all is fine and the movies are displayed in it's correct proportions.

Has anybody else seen this or know what to do?

/Peter
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post #27 of 298 Old 02-25-2013, 06:28 AM
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Just purchased a AVR4520ci & DBT3313, a newbie with the Denon setup.
The firmware upate on the 4520 went well however the 3313 got hung up.
Now the 3313 remote does work.
How do I reset the 3313 unit? How do I reset the remote? Is there a work around to update the firmware?
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post #28 of 298 Old 02-27-2013, 07:56 PM
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HI just purchased this blu ray player and I was going to start to put all my music in a hard drive and connect via usb.
Just wondering if you still have a problem with m/c reading folders and files.
My music collection consists of in exess of 3000 c.d.'s and I was going to convert each one to wav.
Please E-Mail me if you have any information about this.
Thanks Regards Matthew
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post #29 of 298 Old 02-28-2013, 05:21 AM
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How did you reset your DBT3313?
My remote does seem to work after a firmware update locked up.
Any insights would be appreciated
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post #30 of 298 Old 03-06-2013, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoie View Post

HI just purchased this blu ray player and I was going to start to put all my music in a hard drive and connect via usb.
Just wondering if you still have a problem with m/c reading folders and files.
My music collection consists of in exess of 3000 c.d.'s and I was going to convert each one to wav.
Please E-Mail me if you have any information about this.
Thanks Regards Matthew

Current experience is only browsing/playing from a DNLA server. That's all fine. The issue of not reading more than 105 entries has indeed been fixed with the latest firmware upgrade.
I'll see if I can find some time to fill a HDD and test it for you. Can't promise by when.


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