Oppo BDP-105 "Sound Quality" Check Thread for Audiophiles - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 1701 Old 01-19-2014, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by westmd View Post

I do have a dedicated home theatre room with room treatment which is only used for movie watching. I currently have an Oppo BDP103 connected via HDMI to a Lexicon MV5 followed by an old (but Solid) Parasound HCA 1206/1000 and Jamo THX ultra II D600 speakers. What are your thoughts on benefits from upgarding to a 105 and running the analouge into the Lexicon? Again just for movie watching only!

It kind of depends on how critical you really are about the details of your audio.
BillP gives a good example of music having more subtle differences compared to movies where you may not notice much difference.
IMHO the BDP-105 should be used in higher-end systems that only use the best speakers, amps, and room treatments and do very critical listening of audio (mostly music).
I don't think anyone would notice a difference with most movies between the -103 and -105. The 103 is no slouch, it still sounds very good with it's analog stage.
IF YOU DO have the passion and time to dedicate to a lot of music, then you should decide if the extra cost is worth it with the -105.
On the flip side of the coin, a quick Googling shows that your MV5 has auto-calibration capabilities for HDMI audio, and that can even make audio sound better too,
it just depends on your overall setup.

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post #1262 of 1701 Old 01-19-2014, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westmd View Post

I do have a dedicated home theatre room with room treatment which is only used for movie watching. I currently have an Oppo BDP103 connected via HDMI to a Lexicon MV5 followed by an old (but Solid) Parasound HCA 1206/1000 and Jamo THX ultra II D600 speakers. What are your thoughts on benefits from upgarding to a 105 and running the analouge into the Lexicon? Again just for movie watching only!

Also, you'd have to know that the Lexicon has a pass-through mode, i.e., didn't process the analog from an Oppo 105. There are posters who claim even the active volume control of a processor interferes with pure pass through, but that may be a bit much for a pass-through requirement.

db

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post #1263 of 1701 Old 01-20-2014, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post

Also, you'd have to know that the Lexicon has a pass-through mode, i.e., didn't process the analog from an Oppo 105. There are posters who claim even the active volume control of a processor interferes with pure pass through, but that may be a bit much for a pass-through requirement.

db

My experience, based on a yamaha 5790 (terrible) and an arcam avr300 (far better) both with pass thorugh, is that going straight to the amp is much preferable.

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post #1264 of 1701 Old 01-21-2014, 03:59 PM
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Hello Oppo fellas, im new to this thread, and i would like some help about stereo setup,settings. Which is the best settings in audio processing setup on oppo 105,for only pure music full range speakers FL/FR,full bass without engage subwoofer, a pure stereo 2.0 setup. And connections either through preamp or straight to amp.

Thanks in advanve
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post #1265 of 1701 Old 01-21-2014, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Meffy View Post

Hello Oppo fellas, im new to this thread, and i would like some help about stereo setup,settings. Which is the best settings in audio processing setup on oppo 105,for only pure music full range speakers FL/FR,full bass without engage subwoofer, a pure stereo 2.0 setup. And connections either through preamp or straight to amp.

Thanks in advanve
Meffy, you don't need to setup anything in the speaker configuration sub-section of the audio processing menu if you use the 105's dedicated stereo outputs (rca or xlr). The speaker config area only affects the 105's multi-channel analog outputs. Just make sure your "Stereo Signal" is set to "Down-mixed Stereo" in the audio processing section, and you should be all set.
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post #1266 of 1701 Old 01-22-2014, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Meffy, you don't need to setup anything in the speaker configuration sub-section of the audio processing menu if you use the 105's dedicated stereo outputs (rca or xlr). The speaker config area only affects the 105's multi-channel analog outputs. Just make sure your "Stereo Signal" is set to "Down-mixed Stereo" in the audio processing section, and you should be all set.
I have set the sacd priority to stereo and the Stereo signal to front L/R. Is that not a better idea for playing 2channel audio wtth the Oppo 105?
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post #1267 of 1701 Old 01-22-2014, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by artmon View Post

I have set the sacd priority to stereo and the Stereo signal to front L/R. Is that not a better idea for playing 2channel audio wtth the Oppo 105?
SACD Priority is a preference setting in the "Playback Setup" menu. By changing that setting to "Stereo", you're just giving the 105 the preference of playing back the stereo layer (if it exists) on a dual-layer SACD disk. If you only have a 2-channel setup on your 105, that would be the proper choice. As far as setting the "Stereo Signal" to "Front Left/Right" for a 2-channel only home system, that is not the proper setting, unless you want the 105 to do some audio processing (bass management, trim, distance) to your stereo speakers. I'm assuming your speakers are full range, and you're using the 105's dedicated stereo analog outputs, so the proper setting for "Stereo Signal" is "Down-mixed Stereo".
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post #1268 of 1701 Old 01-22-2014, 07:30 AM
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Out of interest, how does the 105 handle a multi-channel SACD disc in a stereo system (assuming output on the dedicated stereo XLR sockets)? Does the Oppo have to convert to PCM before it can down-mix to two channels, or is everything preserved is DSD until the D to A conversion?
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post #1269 of 1701 Old 01-22-2014, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artmon View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Meffy, you don't need to setup anything in the speaker configuration sub-section of the audio processing menu if you use the 105's dedicated stereo outputs (rca or xlr). The speaker config area only affects the 105's multi-channel analog outputs. Just make sure your "Stereo Signal" is set to "Down-mixed Stereo" in the audio processing section, and you should be all set.
I have set the sacd priority to stereo and the Stereo signal to front L/R. Is that not a better idea for playing 2channel audio wtth the Oppo 105?

The FRONT LEFT/RIGHT choice simply means that the Dedicated Stereo Analog outputs will respond to the settings that normally affect the Left Front / Right Front pair of the multi-channel Analog set. Thus, not "better", just "different". If you want to have the OPPO do Crossover processing so you can get bass steered from the L/R channels to a Sub, then FRONT LEFT/RIGHT will do that -- also set LF/RF SMALL and pick a Crossover frequency in this case. With DOWN-MIXED STEREO those settings would be ignored (the Dedicated L/R would act as if set to LARGE). Also with FRONT LEFT/RIGHT you have other choices that apply when playing multi-channel content into that stereo output pair. For example, you can pick the type of Down-mix (Stereo vs. LT/RT). With DOWN-MIXED STEREO you get a "Stereo" down-mix.

I cable 5.1 Analog from the 105, using the Dedicated L/R in lieu of the normal LF/RF jacks, and thus use Stereo Signal FRONT LEFT/RIGHT as you do. I have my speakers configured as LARGE in the OPPO and so there is no Crossover processing. When I use that to play Stereo content, that means that only the L/R jacks have any audio. So long as I want to play that using just the main front speakers, that's fine -- just as if I had used DOWN-MIXED STEREO.

As Dan points out the SACD Priority STEREO setting just establishes your default choice for which track to play from an SACD disc that happens to have both Stereo and 5.1 tracks. You can switch to the alternate track on the fly using the Audio button on the remote.
--Bob


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post #1270 of 1701 Old 01-22-2014, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post

Out of interest, how does the 105 handle a multi-channel SACD disc in a stereo system (assuming output on the dedicated stereo XLR sockets)? Does the Oppo have to convert to PCM before it can down-mix to two channels, or is everything preserved is DSD until the D to A conversion?

With SACD Output DSD engaged, no down-mixing is possible. So you would hear the LF/RF channels of that 5.1 track (on the stereo Analog audio outputs) and the other channels would be discarded. Note that whether DSD is engaged depends on your settings and whether active HDMI audio devices can accept HDMI DSD.

When conversion to PCM is engaged then you DO get a down-mix. With Stereo Signal DOWN-MIXED STEREO you get a "Stereo" down-mix with the LFE channel discarded. With Stereo Signal FRONT LEFT/RIGHT you get a down-mix according to your Speaker Configuration settings.

By the way, the disc "Stay in Tune with PentaTone", SACD, is a good one to have handy while getting familiar with this stuff. Tracks 43-48 of the 5.1 layer are single speaker test tones.
--Bob


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post #1271 of 1701 Old 01-22-2014, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

With SACD Output DSD engaged, no down-mixing is possible. So you would hear the LF/RF channels of that 5.1 track and the other channels would be discarded. Note that whether DSD is engaged depends on your settings and whether active HDMI audio devices can accept HDMI DSD.

When conversion to PCM is engaged then you DO get a down-mix. With Stereo Signal DOWN-MIXED STEREO you get a "Stereo" down-mix with the LFE channel discarded. With Stereo Signal FRONT LEFT/RIGHT you get a down-mix according to your Speaker Configuration settings.

By the way, the disc "Stay in Tune with PentaTone", SACD, is a good one to have handy while getting familiar with this stuff. Tracks 43-48 of the 5.1 layer are single speaker test tones.
--Bob

Thanks for your reply Bob. To clarify I was referring to the analog XLR outputs on the Oppo, so getting the Oppo to do the D to A conversion and outputting an analog signal, not outputting digitally over HDMI. Does all the above still apply?

You mention that in conversion to PCM the LFE channel gets discarded. So the LFE channel in an SACD track gets discarded in all cases if outputting via the analog XLR output - does this apply to blu-ray movie soundtracks also or just to SACD?

How do you ensure that the Oppo is not down sampling to PCM?

So to summarise (I don't mean to labour the point, I just want to be clear what I'm getting out of my Oppo), when playing a multi-channel SACD sound track back into a stereo system via the analog XLR outputs, the choices are either a) to down sample to PCM and get all the channels down-mixed and output as a stereo analog signal, or b) keep everything in DSD and just get the front two channels of the 5.1 mix output as a stereo analog signal. I wonder which would sound better - have you compared both?
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post #1272 of 1701 Old 01-22-2014, 08:31 AM
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^ The Dedicated Stereo Analog XLR jacks are treated the same as the corresponding RCA jacks.

The easiest way to insure you are getting DSD is to use the latest firmware (the one that adds the SACD Output AUTO choice) and set that to SACD Output DSD instead. The Analog outputs will always get DSD in that case. (Each HDMI output will be muted for audio if the DSD can not be sent on that HDMI connection.) You can confirm DSD is in use in two ways. The on-screen music playback graphics will say SACD DSD instead of PCM, and the Front Panel display will have the SACD light ON but the PCM light will be OFF.

As for LFE, first be aware that many, perhaps most, SACD discs don't actually put any content in the LFE channel. That's because of a stupid mistake Sony made in specifying how LFE was to be used for SACD discs -- contrary to every other use of that channel. Instead the discs are mixed with all base in the normal speaker channels. Meaning that if you want Subwoofer output, you need to do it via Crossover processing.

LFE is a channel for carrying LOUD bass. (The other speaker channels can carry bass as low in frequency as you care to go, but always balanced at the same volume level as the other content in each channel.) As such, if you down-mix LFE into the main speakers there has to be "down-mix attenuation" -- a lowering of the overall volume by rather a lot to make sure there is still headroom for that output signal -- i.e., to keep its output voltage from clipping the inputs of your pre-amp.

This is a problem because that lowers the signal you want to hear closer to the noise floor. When you then raise the Volume setting to compensate you are also amplifying the noise floor.

So the Dedicated Stereo Analog outputs, by design, discard any LFE channel content when set to DOWN-MIXED STEREO. This is true for ANY multi-channel content you play this way.

If you set FRONT LEFT/RIGHT you have a choice. If you set a down-mix of Stereo (or LT/RT) and have the Subwoofer set to OFF, then any LFE channel content is mixed into the LF/RF outputs. ALL the output channels get a substantial amount of down-mix attenuation (when playing a multi-channel track).

The alternative is to set Subwoofer to ON, even though there is nothing cabled to that jack. In that case LFE content is discarded out that unused jack and there is no down-mix attenuation. Set this way, you must also be sure you have all your normal speakers set to LARGE, since any steered bass (due to the Crossover) would also be discarded out that unused subwoofer jack.

So if you wire your Dedicated Stereo XLR jacks (only), and set Stereo Signal FRONT LEFT/RIGHT, you can experiment for yourself to see the result of discarding or retaining LFE. Simply set all speakers LARGE (or OFF) in the multi-channel Speaker Configuration, set a down-mix of STEREO, and then toggle the Subwoofer setting to ON or OFF.

Again, note that when SACD DSD is engaged there can be no down-mix -- so the LFE channel, and indeed any Center or Surround channels -- would be discarded ANYWAY if the Subwoofer output is not used. This only applies to playback of DSD content (e.g., SACD discs) of course. (For HDMI output, what happens depends upon how your HDMI-capable AVR is designed.)

And also note that all of this stuff regarding down-mixing, and what happens to LFE as a consequence, only applies when playing multi-channel tracks. Stereo tracks have no LFE channel so there's no issue, and no possibility of down-mix attenuation.
--Bob
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post #1273 of 1701 Old 01-22-2014, 08:42 AM
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Many thanks for your detailed response Bob, much appreciated as always!

I received my new Oppo 105D in hi-fi 'bling' silver this morning, so I will be giving this all a whirl this evening!
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post #1274 of 1701 Old 01-22-2014, 04:10 PM
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Im new to this so all i can say is i didnt know!!!!! so i just wanted to ty all that help me understand. i went and bought a metter and talked with emotiva who in formed a newbie that 75 db`s was refereance sorry i just didnt know so my oppo gets there arround 70 on the dial amped by my xpa-2 and at 100 reaches 93 to 97 db depending on whats playing so it goes now at 75 db its really amazing how clean and percise everthing is. it was my fault playing it so low but my oppo 105 has done everything i have asked sound wise!!! tyvm for all your help everyone. newbie oit to injoy latter
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post #1275 of 1701 Old 01-22-2014, 07:16 PM
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Im new to this so all i can say is i didnt know!!!!! so i just wanted to ty all that help me understand. i went and bought a metter and talked with emotiva who in formed a newbie that 75 db`s was refereance sorry i just didnt know so my oppo gets there arround 70 on the dial amped by my xpa-2 and at 100 reaches 93 to 97 db depending on whats playing so it goes now at 75 db its really amazing how clean and percise everthing is. it was my fault playing it so low but my oppo 105 has done everything i have asked sound wise!!! tyvm for all your help everyone. newbie oit to injoy latter

Glad that you got it all figured out and working great!
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post #1276 of 1701 Old 01-23-2014, 02:58 AM
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Hi all, I am looking at the 105 and it really looks amazing and would do everything I am looking for in one unit. The problem is I have not ventured into this kind of high-end separates equipment before, previously going for good quality all in one players.

Where I am lost is that while I can see that the 105 is the sort of thing I am looking for, I have no idea about what amp I would need to hook it up to. Am I going to have to spend a similar amount of money on the amp as to the price of the 105 to get the benefits of the sound quality from it? Are there any amps that can be recommended as a good match?

Thanks for your help.
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post #1277 of 1701 Old 01-23-2014, 04:45 AM
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You need a decent amp, but also decent speakers. With only mediocre equipment, the 103 would be fine for you. I have a Rotel amp and Rotel preamp, and Sonus Faber speakers. My 105 sounds fantastic (although I know I could get even higher end equipment).
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post #1278 of 1701 Old 01-23-2014, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BillP View Post

You need a decent amp, but also decent speakers. With only mediocre equipment, the 103 would be fine for you. I have a Rotel amp and Rotel preamp, and Sonus Faber speakers. My 105 sounds fantastic (although I know I could get even higher end equipment).
Concur but I believe with the 103 you would need a preamp also.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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post #1279 of 1701 Old 01-23-2014, 01:06 PM
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Concur but I believe with the 103 you would need a preamp also.
Agree. I like the preamp with the 105 since I have other equipment feeding into it as well.
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post #1280 of 1701 Old 01-23-2014, 02:15 PM
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Concur but I believe with the 103 you would need a preamp also.

 

Why?  The output and control options of the 103 and 105 are identical.  (The exceptions are the XLRs and superior DACs on the 105.)

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post #1281 of 1701 Old 01-23-2014, 03:38 PM
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Why?  The output and control options of the 103 and 105 are identical.  (The exceptions are the XLRs and superior DACs on the 105.)
I was not sure on this but can't recall anyone using it as such. So besides the DACs and XLRs, the 103 has less inputs.

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post #1282 of 1701 Old 01-23-2014, 03:52 PM
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^ The BDP-105 can be used in the same manner as the BDP-103 and thus can be used as a pre-amp.
The only difference between the -103 and -105 are the analog stage and headphone amp features.
I currently use the Oppo as a pre-amp with analog connections going directly to power amps and it works quite well.

~Dave

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post #1283 of 1701 Old 01-23-2014, 04:05 PM
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^ Analog Volume control on the 105 (and 105D) is also superior to that on the 103 (103D). For example, you can get volume control even during DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion, and the step size is finer.
--Bob


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post #1284 of 1701 Old 01-23-2014, 05:27 PM
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^ The BDP-105 can be used in the same manner as the BDP-103 and thus can be used as a pre-amp.
The only difference between the -103 and -105 are the analog stage and headphone amp features.
And the extra optical, coaxial, and USB DAC inputs that jima4a mentioned.
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post #1285 of 1701 Old 01-23-2014, 07:06 PM
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I was not sure on this but can't recall anyone using it as such. 

Well, one can as the differences between the two Oppos does not affect this.


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post #1286 of 1701 Old 01-23-2014, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Analog Volume control on the 105 (and 105D) is also superior to that on the 103 (103D). For example, you can get volume control even during DSD-Direct-to-Analog Conversion, and the step size is finer.
--Bob

Really?  Can you provide a reference or link?  I rarely ever use the analog outs of the Oppos.


Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
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post #1287 of 1701 Old 01-23-2014, 07:43 PM
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^ I don't know of a good link spelling this out, but it's true in current firmware.
--Bob


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post #1288 of 1701 Old 01-23-2014, 08:27 PM
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Volume control on the 105/105D is handled by the SABRE DAC which has a very high resolution digital volume control. Volume control in the 103/103D is done differently (as they obviously don't have the SABRE DAC) with less resolution, so the steps are not as fine and there's more potential to lose resolution.

Here's one point of reference:

BDP-105EU Direct Power Amplifier Connection PDF

And yes, the 105/105D can also control the volume level for DSD content. IIRC, that was not the case when the 105 was first released, but was added somewhere along the way.
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post #1289 of 1701 Old 01-24-2014, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by BillP View Post

You need a decent amp, but also decent speakers. With only mediocre equipment, the 103 would be fine for you. I have a Rotel amp and Rotel preamp, and Sonus Faber speakers. My 105 sounds fantastic (although I know I could get even higher end equipment).

Thanks guys - problem I still have is that I'm not sure on what makes a decent amp. Am I looking in the range of £500 or more like £1500?!
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post #1290 of 1701 Old 01-24-2014, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by thekreator View Post

Thanks guys - problem I still have is that I'm not sure on what makes a decent amp. Am I looking in the range of £500 or more like £1500?!

This is the fun part of the hobby. You are required to do a bit of research and auditioning and you'll find an amplifier. Whatever your budget allows?
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