Oppo BDP-105 "Sound Quality" Check Thread for Audiophiles - Page 55 - AVS Forum
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post #1621 of 1776 Old 07-10-2014, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damonj1990 View Post
I just recently purchased the Oppo 105, Onkyo TX NR 838 and use the


Definitive Technology 8080 series speakers all around in a 5.1 system.


I currently am coming out of the oppo via RCA into the Onkyo CD RCA.


Is this connection going to give me the best stereo sound?


Does anyone have suggestions on this setup for best two channel sound?


Thanks.
I think you're on the right track...unless the receiver happens to have some XLR inputs. I found I really like the XLR output on my Oppo, but then that's probably my amp that's enjoying the extra voltage from XLR. I'm not sure you'd experience the same improvement on a typical receiver.
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post #1622 of 1776 Old 07-10-2014, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Lonely Raven View Post
I think you're on the right track...unless the receiver happens to have some XLR inputs. I found I really like the XLR output on my Oppo, but then that's probably my amp that's enjoying the extra voltage from XLR. I'm not sure you'd experience the same improvement on a typical receiver.
Thanks for the suggestion. However the Onkyo 838 AVR does not have XLR. The forthcoming 1030 and up will.
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post #1623 of 1776 Old 07-10-2014, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
My guess is more about the mainboard, as it handles audio processing like speaker management, it has to do something in the sound path before it gets to the audio circuitry.
For those with a stereo setup, try if turning the sub output on or off changes anything while listening to a stereo track.
I tested that in the past we my 95. Two channel stereo, with all speakers set to Large, and I could hear a difference between sub on and off, even though it was never in actual use. I should try it again, see if I still get the same results
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post #1624 of 1776 Old 07-10-2014, 09:18 PM
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[quote=Bob Pariseau;25634305]
Quote:
Originally Posted by edfowler View Post

Are you playing that as DSD or PCM? Played as DSD eliminates even more, possibilities.

Please do try the experiment I described to shutdown the HDMI stuff and see if you still hear the difference.
--Bob
That is a good idea, bob. I'll try it this weekend, too.
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post #1625 of 1776 Old 07-10-2014, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmarF View Post
I tested that in the past we my 95. Two channel stereo, with all speakers set to Large, and I could hear a difference between sub on and off, even though it was never in actual use. I should try it again, see if I still get the same results
Ok. If you hear a difference, try to switch back to 7.1, switch all speakers off and only leave the 2 front ones to large, switch back to stereo downmix, listen again
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post #1626 of 1776 Old 07-10-2014, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
Ok. If you hear a difference, try to switch back to 7.1, switch all speakers off and only leave the 2 front ones to large, switch back to stereo downmix, listen again
I had my system set to 5.1 downmix during the test, with all speakers set to large, and center Off, as I don't use one, anyway.

I have noticed a difference in the sound of my 4.1 system when playing multichannel music, between downmix 5.1 and 7.1.

5.1 sounds more forward and live. This is when playing 5.1 source music. I attribute this to one of two possible causes, (1) the system is reserving head room for the 7.1 setting, and thus playing back less forcefully. Or (2) perhaps the system is figuring in the timing trims for the back surrounds (even though I have them turned off and all settings at zero on them), and thus altering the sound.

So, I can believe there would be a difference when switching from 5.1 downmix, to stereo downmix.
Omar
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post #1627 of 1776 Old 07-11-2014, 12:01 AM
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For the time correction to be off, you have to set all the speakers at the same value. The default 12ft is ok, but on all of them even if turned off.
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post #1628 of 1776 Old 07-11-2014, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
For the time correction to be off, you have to set all the speakers at the same value. The default 12ft is ok, but on all of them even if turned off.
What if the speaker is disabled in the setup? Does the delay it's set to have any effect? I wouldn't think it should.
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post #1629 of 1776 Old 07-11-2014, 12:31 AM
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There are many things that shouldn't be but obviously are

I think what would be best to try to get around all of this would be an option like source direct for the video, but for the audio path, that one activated completely disables the audio processing, speaker management, downmix and everything.
A stereo signal should be left completely alone, if speakers set to large, there is absolutely no reason that any setting should change one single thing to a stereo sound. Multi channel is another story of course.

Last edited by lnarbi; 07-11-2014 at 12:37 AM.
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post #1630 of 1776 Old 07-14-2014, 11:03 AM
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That is from a report on the Primare BDP made by Paul Miller :
http://www.primare.net/assets/_manag...2HFN212web.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by PM
Because all Oppo-based players share a common platform it’s reasonable to
assume they all share the same anamolies in bass management. So the Primare,
like the Cambridge 751BD, offers a drop of –5dB in LFE output relative to all
main channels set to ‘Large’ with no re-distribution of centre channel output if
this is set to ‘Small’ unless, oddly, the surround channels are also set to ‘Small’.
Also, with the LFE/Sub channel turned off, its bass contribution does not appear
to be mixed into the main channels unless one or more of them is also set to
‘Small’. The problem here is that if either centre or surround are set to ‘Small’
then the front channels can be overloaded and clip. Counter-intuitively, if both
centre and surround are set to small, this does not happen. My advice? Leave all
main channels set to ‘Large’ and the sub channel ‘On’ almost regardless of your
speaker configuration as it’ll simply sound better this way. PM

We’d also recommend you set the Downmix mode to ‘7.1 channel’ even if you’re listening in a two-channel system, provided you select the stereo layer/stream from the disc media menu.

You can check all his reports here :
http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/avtech/index.html
You must first register (click on register put your name and email, you'll get an automated reply immediately).

The Oppo 105 tests are all available there, and it seems the 105 passes all tests in the bass management section.
The Cambridge 752 although, did not... Well same base okay, but not completely it seems.

Last edited by lnarbi; 07-14-2014 at 11:08 AM.
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post #1631 of 1776 Old 07-14-2014, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luismanrara View Post
I strongly suggest that you run, "not walk' and change the player's setting from 1080p to 720 in the player's video settings, it will make a notable difference if you are a music aficionado. if you have full range speakers you can further improve the sound by selecting Large on your audio set up and then proceed to turn off the sub setting as well.

this issue was brought up a couple of weeks ago and I am surprised that it hasn't been talked about more on this forum, as it makes the Oppo a much more capable player with music reproduction, there's more separation, more decay, and what I like to call a more 3D presentation, where instruments are located at different depths from each other in respect to the listener. With 1080p engaged the player takes the fun out of listening to music along with it.
Thanks for the suggestion; however, I detected no difference from the analog outs when switching between 1080p and 720p. I did borrow a Cambridge 752 BD player. I hooked it up last night, and my initial impressions are very positive. It has the 3 dimensionality that I was missing from the 105D. I'll post more after I've used it for a few days.
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post #1632 of 1776 Old 07-14-2014, 12:12 PM
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the cambridge 752 doesn't have async usb like the oppo does it? I would miss that feature very much
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post #1633 of 1776 Old 07-14-2014, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmi View Post
Thanks for the suggestion; however, I detected no difference from the analog outs when switching between 1080p and 720p. I did borrow a Cambridge 752 BD player. I hooked it up last night, and my initial impressions are very positive. It has the 3 dimensionality that I was missing from the 105D. I'll post more after I've used it for a few days.
Interesting, the 3d dimensionality change that you hear with the Cambridge player is the "same" that I feel when changing 1080p to 720 in the Oppo. Maybe the 105D and the 105 are not exactly the same, even though the 105d seems to be the exact same platform.

Do not steal, The powers that be do not like the competition.
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post #1634 of 1776 Old 07-14-2014, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luismanrara View Post
Interesting, the 3d dimensionality change that you hear with the Cambridge player is the "same" that I feel when changing 1080p to 720 in the Oppo. Maybe the 105D and the 105 are not exactly the same, even though the 105d seems to be the exact same platform.
Wow, that's very perplexing! Are you using analog out? I can't think of an explanation.
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post #1635 of 1776 Old 07-14-2014, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edfowler View Post
the cambridge 752 doesn't have async usb like the oppo does it? I would miss that feature very much
No, it doesn't. Fortunately, I have a separate 2 channel system with a USB DAC.
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post #1636 of 1776 Old 07-14-2014, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jdmi View Post
Wow, that's very perplexing! Are you using analog out? I can't think of an explanation.
Yes, I am using analog out and the difference is not subtle.

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post #1637 of 1776 Old 07-16-2014, 09:25 PM
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Kind of a stupid question so I apologize in advance Fairly new 105D owner. So far it's GREAT and exceeding expectations. I just now connected the 2 channel stereo outputs using Audioquest King Cobras. The 5.1 multichannel connections have been used enough for break in etc...Can I put in a CD loop in and turn the amp off? The Parasound A31 can get a little hot and would like for the CD to play all night.
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post #1638 of 1776 Old 07-16-2014, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Tim Glover View Post
Kind of a stupid question so I apologize in advance Fairly new 105D owner. So far it's GREAT and exceeding expectations. I just now connected the 2 channel stereo outputs using Audioquest King Cobras. The 5.1 multichannel connections have been used enough for break in etc...Can I put in a CD loop in and turn the amp off? The Parasound A31 can get a little hot and would like for the CD to play all night.
Yes if your objective is to "burn in" the components associated with the 2ch output.
All outputs should be active 24/7 as long as your menu settings don't have them turned off.
Although I don't think there is a way to turn off the analog audio output anyway.
Just turning off your amp should be fine though, and the player should still operate as it normally would.
Surely there is some kind of reference to a tree falling in the forest here, but I'm too tired to find it.

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post #1639 of 1776 Old 07-16-2014, 09:32 PM
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Oppo BDP-105 "Sound Quality" Check Thread for Audiophiles

^^ Your 105D's analog outputs are always active regardless if you're using the multi-ch or the 2-ch connections. The act of connecting a cable or not to the analog outputs has no effect on "break-in" time of your 105D. Just play any music thru it...

Last edited by DanF8500; 07-16-2014 at 09:36 PM.
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post #1640 of 1776 Old 07-16-2014, 09:35 PM
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Hey I really appreciate it! That's kind of what I thought too. Pretty impressed with the 2 channel so far though. And I used to hate listening to CDs through my BD player. Sounded so dang edgy and fatiguing. Thx again.
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post #1641 of 1776 Old 07-16-2014, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post
^^ Your 105D's analog outputs are always active regardless if you're using the multi-ch or the 2-ch connections. The act of connecting a cable or not to the analog outputs has no effect on "break-in" time.
Didn't know that. Thx!
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post #1642 of 1776 Old 07-17-2014, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
That is from a report on the Primare BDP made by Paul Miller :
http://www.primare.net/assets/_manag...2HFN212web.pdf

You can check all his reports here :
http://www.milleraudioresearch.com/avtech/index.html
You must first register (click on register put your name and email, you'll get an automated reply immediately).

The Oppo 105 tests are all available there, and it seems the 105 passes all tests in the bass management section.
The Cambridge 752 although, did not... Well same base okay, but not completely it seems.

I did extensive testing here and agree. 7.1 sounds best. I have a stereo setup and use 7.1 downmix with FL, FR, SBL, SBR set to LARGE. C, SL, SR set to OFF. SW set to On. All delays and trims set to 0. Not sure how the delay works, but figured no delay would be better than all equal delays. Don't think I checked if there was a difference in sound or not.

I did test extensively with different multi-channel soundtracks DD EX, DTS-ES, etc. and found that the sound was better with the SBL And SBR set to LARGE no matter how many channels the sound track had.

This is when I noticed that even with a CD, the delays are still being applied. Also found a small downmixing bug that Oppo confirmed, but stated it was a Mediatek issue and not sure if it would be fixed. I did not check up as it was a small bug that happened with only one configuration and did not make much of an audible difference.

I did read a thread somewhere by Charles Hansen where he went into a bunch of detail about the downmixing and delays, I did not bookmark that thread, anyway, he did say the delay was not very good sounding. The delay being applied is apparently coming from the BDA.

Last edited by kellybob; 07-17-2014 at 03:44 PM.
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post #1643 of 1776 Old 07-17-2014, 04:33 PM
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Glad I'm not alone in that trip

Seems both the cambridge and the oppo behave the same, so the sound difference must be mediatek related.

I followed the advice in the article, everything on, set to large, and no downmix, as this should be what almost defeats the bass management.
I've left the delays on defaults, will try at 0.

I use the multichannel front for stereo tracks, and for multichannel tracks I've hooked a second RCA pair to the dedicated stereo outputs, and I switch on my preamp. Slight loss of quality in that case, but not as much as using the downmix mode in the speaker setup.
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post #1644 of 1776 Old 07-18-2014, 06:51 AM
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If using the XLR's for ouput, you can see if you hear the difference inverting polarity makes using the setup menu to change the XLR polarity. I find correct polarity to make a major difference. If you can hear 720P vs 1080P, then you will hear this.

I find the difference easiest to tell on movie soundtracks with traffic noise, rain, outside noise like crikets and birds, etc. You can tell with the human voice on certain sounds like s and p. Overall there is much more 3 dimensionality and air when the polarity is correct.

Violins (classical music probably benefits the most, although I do not listen to it) , and trumpets sound quite different. Not everyone will hear the difference. It took me a while to get a handle on it, but now I cannot live without the ability to invert polarity and can pretty much tell without any comparison, as incorrect the sound is very falt and lifeless.

I was watching a DVD of Silent Running the other day that has a mono soundtrack (mono is supposedly even easier to hear the effects). Anyway, this is a space movie and Bruce Dern at one point is talking to mission control and the misson control voice has some phasing effects to make it sound like it is coming in and out. It sounds really cool. With the polarity correct, the mission control voice would pop out of the mix and sounded like surround sound (I have a 2 channel system). Incorrect, and it did not do this at all. The same thing happens with a lot of sythensized music. Correct and this stuff floats around and pops in and out of the sound stage.

Single driver speakers (headphones) or speakers that do not run the drivers out of phase are easier to hear the effects with.

Anyway, just something to play with.

Last edited by kellybob; 07-18-2014 at 07:00 AM.
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post #1645 of 1776 Old 07-18-2014, 07:19 AM
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Concerning 720P vs 1080P:

Even if there are no HDMI connections, the HDMI circuitry is still active, so any changes concerning HDMI will still be audible on the other outputs.


My setup is TV, Oppo, DAC, integrated amp. All these have two wire power cords. HDMI 1 to TV. Coax to DAC. DAC to integrated, no other connections to any unit.

After seeing how setup menu items that seemed to not be in play or unrelated affected the sound of the Oppo (103), I started playing aorund with items in the TV setup menu. And some of the setup menu items in the TV have the same or greater effect as 720P does. Usually, the more I simplify or shut down, the better the sound.

Anyway, the TV has an option to turn off if receiving no signal for a period of time. This changed the sound quite a bit, but contrary to what I expected. It actually sounded better with the timer on and sounded better the longer the time. And it also has a timer for a screensaver for when running applications on the TV. The sound was better with this timer on and it sounded better the longer the time.

It has the option to use analog audio rather than the HDMI audio on one HDMI input, and it sounded better when set to accept analog, which I did expect. I think this one also improved the picture slightly. The TV has the option to dim the display when it gets darker. The normal backlight setting is in effect when bright, and then there is another setting for when it is dark. Anyway, it sounds better with the dimming option on with the backlight set to the same values. It did seem to sound better with the backlight at higher values, but I did not test much because the backlight setting is critical to the picture.

I was not using the TV to listen to anything and the HDMI audio on the Oppo is off. Some menu settings in the TV were affecting the sound from the coax out from the Oppo to my DAC with the only connection to the TV other than the power cord being the HDMI. I find this fascinating.

Last edited by kellybob; 07-18-2014 at 07:33 AM.
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post #1646 of 1776 Old 07-18-2014, 08:30 AM
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Well, I'm finished with my audition of the Cambridge 752. The sound is very good. There's more three dimensionality but also some harshness in the treble compared with the 105D's smoother, more laid back presentation. The 105 still has more detail and definition overall.

All things considered I think I'll keep the 105D. Its build quality, feature set, ease of use, remote, and especially video performance are superior to the Cambridge. I wasn't expecting the video to be as good as it is. There is noticeably more depth, detail, and pop than the Cambridge 752 or Denon 3800. This is even without Darbee processing. Even though the audio performance isn't stellar at this point, I think it will improve over time with more break in and as I adapt to it. I can see the potential for greatness. I need to be patient.
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post #1647 of 1776 Old 07-18-2014, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmi View Post
Well, I'm finished with my audition of the Cambridge 752.
All things considered I think I'll keep the 105D. Its build quality, feature set, ease of use, remote, and especially video performance are superior to the Cambridge. There is noticeably more depth, detail, and pop than the Cambridge 752 or Denon 3800. This is even without Darbee processing.
It must be your video settings. The video section of the 105 and the 752 are identical, as is PQ according to professional reviews. Of course, with the Darbee processing, they will be different.
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post #1648 of 1776 Old 07-18-2014, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post
The video section of the 105 and the 752 are identical
That's true from a hardware perspective, but jdmi is comparing a 105D to the 752 and the video processing in the 105D is different when compared to the 105 and 752. While all 3 use the same MediaTek SOC for deinterlacing and scaling (except to 4K), the 105 and 752 have the QDEO video processor chip and the 105D has a VRS chip instead.

On the firmware side, though the differences that affect the MediaTek SOC may be minor, Oppo and Cambridge Audio most likely aren't always in sync on what features and/or bug fixes they have from MediaTek so there may at least be slight differences in actual performance which could favor either.
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post #1649 of 1776 Old 07-19-2014, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post
Oppo and Cambridge Audio most likely aren't always in sync on what features and/or bug fixes they have from MediaTek so there may at least be slight differences in actual performance which could favor either.
Cambridges firmwares are a copy/paste from the Oppo ones, word by word, it only takes a month more
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post #1650 of 1776 Old 07-24-2014, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayhikski View Post
You were under-utilizing the dynamic range of the player.

At a volume of 10 you were reducing the dynamic range by 45dB (0.5dB per volume step)

Oppo recommends a volume of 70-100.

Best,
James



ATTENTION BOB PARISEAU


Could you please clarify the above.
My 105 is hooked up via XLR Analog Out DIRECT to my active ATC Mains
My volume level obviously varies with each recording but I know that at 80-85 things are REALLY humming.
I assume my XLR to XLR connection has me 6db hot.


AFAIK Oppo and my local modder (Joe Rassmussen from Custom Analogue)
are VERY happy with the performance of the onboard Volume Control


See Here.......http://www.esstech.com/PDF/digital-v...me-control.pdf
And Here...... http://www.customanalogue.com/oppo_L3.htm (scroll down to Q5 in FAQ)


What is your (esteemed) opinion??


Also Am I right in assuming that NONE of the multichannel settings will have ANY affect on my ANALOG stereo sound??




FYI.......I run HDMI 1 to HDTV....HDMI 2 to INTEGRA DHC 80.3


2 sets of XLR's.....One set from 105 stereo XLR out........ One set from INTEGRA L/R Main Out


I just switch them out at the Speaker end depending on whether I want Stereo or M/C.


Also, this 720P thing sounds VERY weird!!!! Any further thoughts?


Thank you so much,


Regards,


John


P.S. JAMES.........Feel free to elaborate......I am asking Bob as he appears to be the Resident GURU......No disrespect.

Last edited by linger63; 07-24-2014 at 11:48 AM. Reason: More Info
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